OaktownBear;842327225 said:

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That is not what my position is. First of all, did you read my post? I specifically said I wasn't blaming Dykes in any case because I don't know if the staff in question is under his control. OP basically said "X happened so the coaches are at fault". Fans (who by the way have clearly let their SUPPORT for the coaches bias THEIR view of this very specific recruiting situation) responded to OP by saying, "No, X didn't happen. Y happened, so the coaches are not at fault." I said. "If Y happened, then most certainly the staff is at fault. I don't blame them if X happened but I do if Y happened." Yes, that is separate from wins. That is just a straight competence issue. If I was so influenced by wins and losses, I would have blamed this theoretical incompetence on Dykes. I did not.

The win/loss record discussion comes because there was what I feel was a passive-aggressive implication that I have an agenda in my lack of support for Dykes. I responded that my agenda was success. I felt there was a further passive-aggressive response that because I supported Tedford that the agenda was something else. So I pointed out that someone with an agenda of success may very well have supported Tedford when I did and not Dykes because when I supported Tedford he was successful and Dykes has not been. Two completely separate points.

You are taking other people's positions on the recruit issue, mixing them up with mine, and then adding that to a completely different point that may have sprung from the conversation, but was totally separate from that discussion.

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How come you don't post on the threads about recruits verballing or the thread about the improving APR...

MiZery;842327232 said:

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How come you don't post on the threads about recruits verballing or the thread about the improving APR...

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maybe bc saying the exact same thing as everyone else isn't that interesting.

what would you say. yay, our APR is going back to where it should've been all along? or yay, we still have prospects verbally committing to us despite everything?

GivemTheAxe;842327037 said:

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I think you underestimate the influece of the academics at Cal

I know if one dean of one of Cal's most nationally prominent schools. He was livid with the FB program because if it's academic failings and he repeatedly let everyone know about his displeasure. He was not alone among the well respected academics on the Cal campus.

If JT had been taking Cal to a BCS bowl every year. He might have gotten a little more slack. But a losing record made him extremely vulnerable to his critics who wanted him gone because of his players poor academic performance.

I understood from someone with good inside contacts. That Sandy put the Fear Of God into Sonny. And told him he would be graded as much on academic performance as on athletic performance.

So believe what you will. But remember that in the eyes of the members of the Academic Senate, Cal is NOT Oregon or Washington or even UCLA. It insists On academic performance from all students --even the athletes.

If a cosh forgets that, soon he will be gone.

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I wish I could believe this, because I wholeheartedly support the position, but it is just not backed up by the history. Other than a few years under Tedford, Cal's football team has most graduated in the 40%-45 range. Sometimes worse. Why is that? There is no indication that the academics have ever had the kind of influence you are talking about. Otherwise things would have changed a long time ago.

Also, Dykes contract gives him a bigger bonus for winning 7 games than for turning academics around, and that bonus grows for every win over 7. I would say it when you have a clear matter of public record defining his compensation, that tells you a lot more about what he is judged on than rumored fear of god conversations behind closed doors.

MoragaBear;842327247 said:

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So good news can only be followed up with specious, backslapping commentary?

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no. i just think it's curious Mizery asks why OTB doesn't post on those threads.

i suggested that not everyone wants to say "Welcome to Cal, ____" or "fantastic, our APR is going back up again".

just like it's equally boring and unproductive if everyone were to say "god we f*cking suck" or "wow Buh is terrible".

MiZery;842327232 said:

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How come you don't post on the threads about recruits verballing or the thread about the improving APR...

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1. I have never been one to post on threads about recruits verballing. I don't normally like to comment because I feel my self interest in a recruit is counter to the appropriate response. My self interest in the recruit is whether I think he is a prospect that will help the football team succeed. To me the announcement of a verbal should be about the kid and the momentous step he has made in HIS life, regardless of how good I think he is as a player. Saying he is great invites people to say he sucks. Saying he sucks...sucks. I am not a touchy-feely poster. I don't congratulate people who have babies, or whose kids get into Cal. I don't comment on people who have died. And I don't post congrats to people who verbal. Never really have.

Also, even if I wanted to comment on a specific verbal, I don't have the expertise to comment on specific guys. If I were to comment, it would be about the general quality of recruits overall. That is my position because I believe that if you look at a class of 20, ratings and offers are a decent indicator. I don't think they are necessarily great when looking at 1 guy. Frankly, I'm not sure why you think I should be congratulating Sonny on that. Based on ratings and other offers, I don't see his recruiting has been impressive. It has been at best okay. Bottom line, though, there are coaches that are good at finding players that are better than their ranking and offers would indicate. It is too early to know whether Dykes is one.

2. If you look at some threads on APR that have nothing to do with Dykes or Cal, you will see that I think APR is easily manipulated garbage. I am ashamed of Cal's academic performance. I don't care about improving APR. I want to see higher grad rates and I want to see degrees in other than a handful of majors that all the football players seem to go for. I have been clear I don't think this is a coach issue. This is a Cal issue, and I'm not going to congratulate Cal for APR.

3. I have a couple of times given Dykes credit for something. It has been rare because I think there is very little he deserves praise for. Before the season I did say that I believed he wanted the Cal job specifically and that is a good thing to have in the coach.

4. There are enough of you heaping praise on the guy. How come I don't see you posting criticism when he has so obviously deserves at least some? Why don't you post criticism of a 50 point loss to Stanford or a 17 point loss to the second worse team in the conference? Actually, when others posted criticism that week, you defended the coaches.

Edit: By the way. This isn't "orange slices for everyone" time. You know what? Maybe the current state of the program doesn't make me feel positive enough to post praise right now. I think that is a natural human feeling.

beeasyed;842327248 said:

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no. i just think it's curious Mizery asks why OTB doesn't post on those threads.

i suggested that not everyone wants to say "Welcome to Cal, ____" or "fantastic, our APR is going back up again".

just like it's equally boring and unproductive if everyone were to say "god we f*cking suck" or "wow Buh is terrible".

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This is exactly my feeling, and it always has been. I don't think I have ever posted a "Welcome to Cal" post except very occasionally when a bearant shows up (as I did when Rubenzers' Mom specifically showed up). I don't see the point in welcoming somebody who very likely isn't reading the board.

And you are also right that I don't post "fire his ass" posts that you see during games. It doesn't add anything to the conversation and frankly usually annoys me. I may conclude to fire him, but I'm giving an argument for it.

I didn't realize the compliment sandwich was required for commentary. How does this work? "Sonny can be a good speaker at press conferences, but his performance on the field seems to be so poor as to require his termination. I like the Cal jacket he wears though."

[B said:

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Unit2's Posts Suck;842326673]I agree that he won't be fired before January 1 because that's when the buyout drops each year. I think it's $3 million right now and drops $750k each year, so $2.25M buyout on Jan 1 if he puts up another stinker of a season, $1.5M if we fire him after 2015.

Would be silly to fire him other than for cause before January 1 so people should sit back, relax and hope for a decent season because if we do so poorly that Dykes needs to be fired, we are not going to be in good shape. It will have meant another disastrous season and our prospects for getting a decent coach at fair value on the heels of 3 terrible seasons with a roster rebuilt by a guy who just presided over the downfall will be very bad.

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incredible.

Yet Stanfurd, ASU, and UCLA managed to do just fine.

CALiforniALUM;842327172 said:

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LOL. You can't even read your own post. You didn't refer to a 1-11 season, you started off with if we were coming off a 10 win season. A 10 win season most definitely did not happen, which makes every other statement you follow it with rather irrelevant and speculative.

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I thought it was pretty clear from the context that I was making a comparison. What was I comparing? The recruiting class we had coming off our actual 1-11 season vs. the type of recruiting classes we've had in the relatively recent but rapidly fading past coming off of 10 win seasons. I guess I should've made that even more clear so you could understand what I was doing. Sorry.

CALiforniALUM;842327172 said:

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I still think you should go back and read the first page of this thread. Wins and losses were not part of the discussion, period.

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You made an assertion that I challenged. I quoted you. That quote was about wins and losses. You can say until you're blue in the face that the first page of the thread didn't include a discussion about wins and losses, it's totally irrelevant. Eventually the discussion turned to wins and losses. You wrote about them. I responded. That's how things work around here. There's no "first page" rule, LOL.

CALiforniALUM;842327172 said:

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Are you suggesting that the 1-11 season led to the two recruits who committed to CAL to ultimately decide not to take the required classes?

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Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. Your reading comprehension is spot on. I think that when Cal went 1-11 between February and June these guys decided to stop taking the classes they would need to come to Cal.

beeasyed;842327248 said:

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no. i just think it's curious Mizery asks why OTB doesn't post on those threads.

i suggested that not everyone wants to say "Welcome to Cal, ____" or "fantastic, our APR is going back up again".



If this staff was able to land top rated recruits like Browning,White, or Waller than I think that a lot of folks would be posting on those threads.

I'm sure the coaches will sign two hidden gems to replace these two from our recruiting class.

Local outlook on our LB Corps...
http://www.dailycal.org/2014/06/23/lack-depth-poses-challenge-call-footballs-linebacker-unit/

DLSbear;842327494 said:

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Local outlook on our LB Corps...
http://www.dailycal.org/2014/06/23/lack-depth-poses-challenge-call-footballs-linebacker-unit/

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one note, Porch is playing RB, first and foremost.

from last season, i don't see the success of our pass rush being helped by our pass coverage. usually, if DBs give good coverage and delays the QB making the throw, it could be the difference between a completion and a sack. additionally, the DL will usually bail out lapses in coverage (DBs should be improved, but still not a strength imo).

however, from what we saw last year, our DL seemed to stall from the LOS. even with more time on certain plays, it seemed like our defense couldn't penetrate, despite the varied blitz packages.

so, DBs will once again likely shoulder most of the burden, and most of the blame if our front 7 doesn't significantly improve.

with our DT depth now a big issue, hopefully the DE/OLB [Johnson, Sina, etc.] pieces we picked up can finally make a hit on the opposing QBs. big, nasty hits. Follett-on-Ainge type hits that can fire up a listless offense and crowd.

Don't disagree with your assessment on the importance of the front 7. If our DL can get a decent push and hold their own on the LOS we will see some significant improvement across the whole D unit. I hope that our "veterans" Avery, Moose and Scarlett can get back to their old form after being out for a year.

B A an Kmm Bakkyij

MoragaBear;842327532 said:

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Porchivina was switched back to LB after the initial plan was to bring him on at RB. That could change in fall camp but that's the plan heading into it.

I understand their point about LB depth after losing Forbes, Fortt and Ragin but I like the depth of Jefferson, Barton, Nickerson, Tandy (who looked great in spring), Broussard, Downs, Davison and Tongilava (love that guy), Anoa'i, Porchivina and Kearney and Wainwright coming in.

The starters all have experience now and while the backups are largely untested, there's a decent amount of talent there.

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glad he was moved back. seems like a smart move given how little the fullback is used in this offense. i just dont see him getting any carries at the tailback spot. if theres any frosh thats going to get carries, my money is on tre watson

dont forget jason gibson is on track to be in rotation in that LB group ...

MoragaBear;842327532 said:

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Porchivina was switched back to LB after the initial plan was to bring him on at RB. That could change in fall camp but that's the plan heading into it.

I understand their point about LB depth after losing Forbes, Fortt and Ragin but I like the depth of Jefferson, Barton, Nickerson, Tandy (who looked great in spring), Broussard, Downs, Davison and Tongilava (love that guy), Anoa'i, Porchivina and Kearney and Wainwright coming in.

The starters all have experience now and while the backups are largely untested, there's a decent amount of talent there.

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Thanks MB. Without getting into too much detail (if you can) do you think Maximo comes back this year?

Hmm, that's what I heard too...too bad. Thanks!