beeasyed;842339697 said:

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my first Cal game was in 2006, and my first game as a student was that rocking 2007 Tennessee game. knocking out an SEC team in my first collegiate experience was nothing short of f*%&*^ awesome, and then I watched the wheels fall off...

now i anxiously await for when Cal gets back to its 7+ win days.

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Kids are spoiled these days.


"Get off my yard punks!!!"

bonsallbear;842339505 said:

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The closer the season gets, the more people's expectations are raised. It was only a month ago that posters were "hopeful" that Sonny would get us three wins without any blowout losses.

the apologists, yes.



Now it seems his arse should get canned unless he gets 5+ wins. I suppose next month there will be those who will want his ouster unless he gets us into a bowl game.

completely agree considering the number of cheap bowls out there



I find this laughable

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you would...

NYCGOBEARS;842339698 said:

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Kids are spoiled these days.


"Get off my yard punks!!!"

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jamonit;842339670 said:

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Borrayo started the last 5 games as a True FR and a 3 star prospect. Hunter played a ton as a 2 Star DT true FR. You want to rip the staff for anything, but can't admit they found some good players in the last month and a half "because over their SR (not true FR) years a few will blow up"? Come on now

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Hunter is hardly a recruiting victory since he is already gone. He took game reps and bailed. That's a loss in my book. Are you also going to give Sonny kudos for the DNQ's and recruit(s) he dropped?

Darby;842339814 said:

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Hunter is hardly a recruiting victory since he is already gone. He took game reps and bailed. That's a loss in my book. Are you also going to give Sonny kudos for the DNQ's and recruit(s) he dropped?

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bailed ?

Darby;842339814 said:

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Hunter is hardly a recruiting victory since he is already gone. He took game reps and bailed. That's a loss in my book. Are you also going to give Sonny kudos for the DNQ's and recruit(s) he dropped?

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This is really a weak argument. If Sonny knew beforehand that Hunter would knock up a girl, decide to get married and move back to Houston, do you really think he would have offered him?

Beardog26;842339689 said:

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This kid is a good football player.

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Memphis thought so.

man this thread went off the rails quickly...

This kid looks promising. I don't think that can be disputed. And he's got obvious reasons for being unheralded. (3 HS in 3 years and the first two weren't football schools)

This staff has also shown that they will drop guys that don't develop during their senior years, so I wouldn't stress it if he doesn't earn more accolades.

As for how good the staff is at mining for underated/underheralded guys? I think given the time frame they are doing fairly well. Course you don't REALLY know til the kids have had a couple years to "show something".

What they have NOT done super well is recruit/retain the from the get go highly rated guys outside of WR. The LB that looked like a prototype MLB tackling machine and is now going to WSU.....who knew the kid wasn't gonna be interested in taking UC qualifiers (Leniu right?). Well I suppose you could argue that the staff should have vetted the guy more thoroughly and have figured it out like the DL that went to Vandy at the end of the last recruiting cycle. There was the OT that flipped to Oregon their first class. And the DBs last year (granted a LARGE function of that was the dismal season).

Hopefully there will be some winning/positive vibe associated with the program this year so we can see what they do when the program looks more appealing from a superficial level.

Darby;842339814 said:

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Hunter is hardly a recruiting victory since he is already gone. He took game reps and bailed. That's a loss in my book. Are you also going to give Sonny kudos for the DNQ's and recruit(s) he dropped?

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What? Whether he left or not that doesn't speak to the ability to see a 2 star DT and offer him. He turned out to be much better so that was a good find. Him leaving had to do with girl getting pregnant and him wanting to be close to his wife and kid. That doesn't mean his talent is gone. Also Winchester wasn't a DNQ... he was a not good enuff... yes I give kudos for mutually parting ways rather than bringing in someone who isn't ready for Pac12 football.

jamonit;842339433 said:

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LOL... Wait you mean none of those players that were just recruited haven't done anything yet? No kidding!! That is extremely funny. It was his first full year recruiting class which is why I used them as examples of players that weren't highly offered and then later offered by big time programs. We found them first and then they blew up. Sorry you can't see that and only want to go by what they have done... Lets go back then and look at the what month and a half of recruiting in 2013... I wouldn't include players JT got committed and they were able to keep...

OG Chris Borrayo not a huge offer list and is a stud starting 5 games as a True FR OL... IF you don't know that isn't easy.
DT Jacobi Hunter played as a true FR with very little offer list. Great find by the staff who unfortunately is moving back to TX to be with new baby and baby's mother
DE Kyle Kragen JC transfer with hardly any offers... Forced into action and wasn't great, but imagine if they didn't get him.
LB Johnny Ragin played limited as a true FR before transferring out.
DT Marcus Manley RS last year was very unknown and now looks to get a lot of playing and really improved
DE Sione Sina wasn't highly offered, but many are predicting he will make a big move this year now that he is healthy.

So as you can see since... He had a month and a half to recruit and the few he brought in were able to have some impacts even though they were lightly offered as you say. Many are slated for this year to be a big part of our team like transfer Trevor Davis. What excuse to rip into Sonny are you going to use this time?

LOL they haven't done anything yet... The new recruits just coming in... That is great

Oh and I wanted to add in here... WR Jack Austin who in a year or two will be a monster for us. Unfortunately he is buried by one of the deepest WR group we have ever had

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After reading your list, I'm not overwhelmed as you are. Most of what seems rosey are the DTs . . . And given the way our season went with a good mix of nflers (Coleman), runofts (Moala), the going homers (Hunter), and the infamous injured of 2013 (Jalil) the staff better say good things about all the kids who had to step up last year and this coming year.

Bottom line: Sonny and Co. Have no track record to point at except 1-11 and let's hope he is the recruiting god same are saying he is . .. cuz we ain't got no reason to believe it yet. Its all faith at this point.

btsktr;842339487 said:

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In Harbaugh's early years Stanfurd was pulling in mostly 2 and 3 stars with the occasional four star ( including Luck). Luck ended up being the #1 draft pick and many of the other players became productive college players. I do agree that it is obviously very hard to win with these types of recruits but it is possible.

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Unfortunately, our Sonny is no Hairball. Hairball could wint the Albany Bowl with Petaluma Pop Warners.

Maybe we could get Debi this...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3429[/ATTACH]

Tedhead94;842339881 said:

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After reading your list, I'm not overwhelmed as you are. Most of what seems rosey are the DTs . . . And given the way our season went with a good mix of nflers (Coleman), runofts (Moala), the going homers (Hunter), and the infamous injured of 2013 (Jalil) the staff better say good things about all the kids who had to step up last year and this coming year.

Bottom line: Sonny and Co. Have no track record to point at except 1-11 and let's hope he is the recruiting god same are saying he is . .. cuz we ain't got no reason to believe it yet. Its all faith at this point.

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You aren't impressed with the small list I made, of the short month and a half of recruiting Sonny had, that actually played some their FR or JC transfer year.... Ok, yeah nothing to be impressed by. Borrayo true FR OL start all the time... Nothing to see there. 2 star true FR DT play all the time... nothing to see here. Lower ranked JC players come in all the time and play a lot... nothing to see here. He offers recruits early and people get upset because they are ranked lower and don't have any BCS offers... Said players do stuff like put up a 60+/3 TD/INT rate, win AZ POY, win a state championship, finish in the top 8 of the elite 11 where his team won at the opening, and got offered by other big time programs despite being a solid commit... Yeah nothing to see here.

Yep nothing Sonny did was good, nobody he recruited is any good even though most haven't played yet, none of the lower ranked players got bigger offers, none of the lower ranked players got bumps in ratings, the APR improvement is barely a jump improving 40+ points, etc etc etc

We all get it... We went 1-11 last year... We get it... the team was bad. We get it... Sonny was the coach... Why can't you now get that no one would win with that young of a team? No one will win with that much injuries, turnover, inexperience, to go with practically no upperclassmen in the first place? We had no chance last year period. We started more True FR on our team than SRs! We started more FR on our team than JRs and SRs combined!! You don't care though, we get it. 1-11 no reasons, no excuses, I got it thanks... Good luck with all that.

This thread has really gone sideways. Maybe take the "lack of recruiting" discussion to a separate thread.

On that note.....WELCOME TO CAL LUC!


:gobears:

jamonit;842339939 said:

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He offers recruits early and people get upset because they are ranked lower and don't have any BCS offers... Said players do stuff like put up a 60+/3 TD/INT rate, win AZ POY, win a state championship, finish in the top 8 of the elite 11 where his team won at the opening, and got offered by other big time programs despite being a solid commit... Yeah nothing to see here.

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You keep saying this rather misleading statement.

Luke's was offered by Cal, UCLA, Air Force, Columbia, Navy, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Weber State. Army, and Wyoming. Besides Cal and UCLA, what other "Big Time Programs" are you referring to????? After Cal offered, the only "Big Time" school that came calling was UCLA and that was after they failed to land their primary target.

jamonit;842339939 said:

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You aren't impressed with the small list I made, of the short month and a half of recruiting Sonny had, that actually played some their FR or JC transfer year.... Ok, yeah nothing to be impressed by. Borrayo true FR OL start all the time... Nothing to see there. 2 star true FR DT play all the time... nothing to see here. Lower ranked JC players come in all the time and play a lot... nothing to see here. He offers recruits early and people get upset because they are ranked lower and don't have any BCS offers... Said players do stuff like put up a 60+/3 TD/INT rate, win AZ POY, win a state championship, finish in the top 8 of the elite 11 where his team won at the opening, and got offered by other big time programs despite being a solid commit... Yeah nothing to see here.

Yep nothing Sonny did was good, nobody he recruited is any good even though most haven't played yet, none of the lower ranked players got bigger offers, none of the lower ranked players got bumps in ratings, the APR improvement is barely a jump improving 40+ points, etc etc etc

We all get it... We went 1-11 last year... We get it... the team was bad. We get it... Sonny was the coach... Why can't you now get that no one would win with that young of a team? No one will win with that much injuries, turnover, inexperience, to go with practically no upperclassmen in the first place? We had no chance last year period. We started more True FR on our team than SRs! We started more FR on our team than JRs and SRs combined!! You don't care though, we get it. 1-11 no reasons, no excuses, I got it thanks... Good luck with all that.

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You are correct. I am not impressed at this point.

. . . though I am hopeful.

calBlitz;842339952 said:

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You keep saying this rather misleading statement.

Luke's was offered by Cal, UCLA, Air Force, Columbia, Navy, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Weber State. Army, and Wyoming. Besides Cal and UCLA, what other "Big Time Programs" are you referring to????? After Cal offered, the only "Big Time" school that came calling was UCLA and that was after they failed to land their primary target.

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Oh my golly gee, completely misleading... I mean I put a S on the end of program. My mistake you got me, you make such a good valid point. :facepalm Totally my first post on this thread and the only player I was talking about the whole time. Maybe UCLA isn't that good of a program also so I shouldn't even include them. It couldn't be that teams that already have QBs don't usually offer a second QB right? I mean that can't be a reason more teams didn't offer right? It couldn't be that I was also talking about other players that we offered also which I had mentioned in previous posts right?.... You know like Vic Enwere after getting our offer and committing received offers from Michigan, Michigan State, Vanderbilt, and Wisconsin... Tre Watson received offers from UCLA and Washington

Nope none of that, I was completely misleading. Man you really got me there. :headbang

Enjoy the world you live in brother... Moving on from this. :horse

Welcome Luc and I can't wait until you get a bunch more offers!

calBlitz;842339952 said:

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You keep saying this rather misleading statement.

Luke's was offered by Cal, UCLA, Air Force, Columbia, Navy, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Boise State, San Jose State, UNLV, Weber State. Army, and Wyoming. Besides Cal and UCLA, what other "Big Time Programs" are you referring to????? After Cal offered, the only "Big Time" school that came calling was UCLA and that was after they failed to land their primary target.

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TedHead pharts :moon: and out you pop ... plunk, splash ...

RighteousGoldenBear;842339944 said:

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This thread has really gone sideways. Maybe take the "lack of recruiting" discussion to a separate thread.

On that note.....WELCOME TO CAL LUC!


:gobears:

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+1

jamonit;842339959 said:

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Oh my golly gee, completely misleading... I mean I put a S on the end of program. My mistake you got me, you make such a good valid point. :facepalm Totally my first post on this thread and the only player I was talking about the whole time. Maybe UCLA isn't that good of a program also so I shouldn't even include them. It couldn't be that teams that already have QBs don't usually offer a second QB right? I mean that can't be a reason more teams didn't offer right? It couldn't be that I was also talking about other players that we offered also which I had mentioned in previous posts right?.... You know like Vic Enwere after getting our offer and committing received offers from Michigan, Michigan State, Vanderbilt, and Wisconsin... Tre Watson received offers from UCLA and Washington

Nope none of that, I was completely misleading. Man you really got me there. :headbang

Enjoy the world you live in brother... Moving on from this. :horse

Welcome Luc and I can't wait until you get a bunch more offers!

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Nice deflection.

My point still stands. While Vic Enwere is an example of a recruit blowing up, Luke is not.

SonOfCalVa;842339963 said:

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TedHead pharts :moon: and out you pop ... plunk, splash ...

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Classic.

Out of sheer curiosity, how much does Sonny pay you?

calBlitz;842340009 said:

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Nice deflection.

My point still stands. While Vic Enwere is an example of a recruit blowing up, Luke is not.

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if Jam is trying to be accurate, here's more info:

UCLA wanted:
Kyle Allen
Brad Kaaya
Manny Wilkins (never offered, committed ASU early)
(offered 2 other QBs, no interest)

And they missed on all of them. So thinking Cal's had a sh*t season, they offer Luke in December. Way to make a kid feel wanted, right? UCLA ends up with QB Aaron Sharp for 2014.

Vic indeed is a good example of a kid blowing up and it's very lucky for us we got on him early. many of the other schools that ended up offering had the luxury of waiting it out, but Cal did not. good thing Ingram could hold onto him.

I would prefer to have Luc (promising, smart, hard-worker) than a 4* or 5* who will flunk out before he gets to the field or gets kicked off the team for personality or conduct issues.
How many of Tosh's super recruits never really helped the Bears perfomance ON THE FIELD.

68great;842340037 said:

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I would prefer to have Luc (promising, smart, hard-worker) than a 4* or 5* who will flunk out before he gets to the field or gets kicked off the team for personality or conduct issues.
How many of Tosh's super recruits never really helped the Bears perfomance ON THE FIELD.

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easier to count the ones who made an impact, on the field [U]and [/U]in the classroom

calBlitz;842340009 said:

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Nice deflection.

My point still stands. While Vic Enwere is an example of a recruit blowing up, Luke is not.

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Luke didn't blow up? Wait so he didn't pass for 60+TDs and 3 INTs or is that not blowing up? He didn't win AZ POY or is that not blowing up either? He didn't blow up at the Elite 11 and climb up from 18th to one of only 11 of the Elite? That isn't blowing up? You are making a good point, while missing mine.

beeasyed;842340015 said:

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if Jam is trying to be accurate, here's more info:

UCLA wanted:
Kyle Allen
Brad Kaaya
Manny Wilkins (never offered, committed ASU early)
(offered 2 other QBs, no interest)

And they missed on all of them. So thinking Cal's had a sh*t season, they offer Luke in December. Way to make a kid feel wanted, right? UCLA ends up with QB Aaron Sharp for 2014.

Vic indeed is a good example of a kid blowing up and it's very lucky for us we got on him early. many of the other schools that ended up offering had the luxury of waiting it out, but Cal did not. good thing Ingram could hold onto him.

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They didn't offer Wilkins so not sure why he is on the list.... They could have offered him like they offered Luke, but chose not to. I believe they offered Luke after seeing him play his SR year. He was a beast and my bet is they offered after watching his film. You don't just offer someone to have a QB. If they felt he didn't deserve it, he wouldn't have gotten the offer. Happens all the time after a teams watches SR film.

68great;842340037 said:

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I would prefer to have Luc (promising, smart, hard-worker) than a 4* or 5* who will flunk out before he gets to the field or gets kicked off the team for personality or conduct issues.
How many of Tosh's super recruits never really helped the Bears perfomance ON THE FIELD.

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once again: it's not an either or situation.

nobody's PREFERRING a 5* dropout/headcase over a 2* smart, no-name.

it's also quite confusing why the To$h example is always brought up. 1) to$h wasn't the one making all the offering decisions. that was also the HC + DC. 2) a lot of solid "Cal" guys were recruited by to$h as primary or 2ndary, including, but not limited to: Gibson, Barr, Barton, Cam Jordan, etc. you're doing a disservice to many of the great Cal players by lumping them in with the "Tosh's super recruits".

jamonit;842340051 said:

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They didn't offer Wilkins so not sure why he is on the list.... They could have offered him like they offered Luke, but chose not to. I believe they offered Luke after seeing him play his SR year. He was a beast and my bet is they offered after watching his film. You don't just offer someone to have a QB. If they felt he didn't deserve it, he wouldn't have gotten the offer. Happens all the time after a teams watches SR film.

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they never ended up offering Wilkins b/c the guy committed to ASU before summer even started (May 2013), and pretty much shut down his recruitment. OTOH, UCLA waits till the 11th hour to offer a guy who was setting records ALL SEASON [averaging 300 passing yds/game], and played great in The Opening (July 2013) bc they thought he would flip from a team that just went 1-11.

sure, teams offering a guy after senior year evals isn't uncommon. but it is uncommon for a team to go through an entire season not communicating with a recruit, then offer him 2 months before signing day and expect him to sign.

Mrs. Rubenzer, please chime in if i'm off base here.

beeasyed;842340059 said:

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they never ended up offering Wilkins b/c the guy committed to ASU before summer even started (May 2013), and pretty much shut down his recruitment. OTOH, UCLA waits till the 11th hour to offer a guy who was setting records ALL SEASON [averaging 300 passing yds/game], and played great in The Opening (July 2013) bc they thought he would flip from a team that just went 1-11.

sure, teams offering a guy after senior year evals isn't uncommon. but it is uncommon for a team to go through an entire season not communicating with a recruit, then offer him 2 months before signing day and expect him to sign.

Mrs. Rubenzer, please chime in if i'm off base here.

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So you inclusion of Wilkins is that they couldn't flip him, but they could flip Luke because we did so bad. I guess that is possible, but I think it had more to do with lets look who is possible and check their tape out. If Luke had the Elite 11 and huge SR before other teams had their QB committed, do you think he would of had more offers from BCS schools? I think the answer is yes he would have.

jamonit;842340048 said:

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Luke didn't blow up? Wait so he didn't pass for 60+TDs and 3 INTs or is that not blowing up? He didn't win AZ POY or is that not blowing up either? He didn't blow up at the Elite 11 and climb up from 18th to one of only 11 of the Elite? That isn't blowing up? You are making a good point, while missing mine.

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No I'm not. I'm contending your original claim that Luke got several more "Big Time Program" offers after Cal's initial offer. Also, it is not my intend to disparage Luke in any way.

beeasyed;842340059 said:

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.. . but it is uncommon for a team to go through an entire season not communicating with a recruit, then offer him 2 months before signing day and expect him to sign.

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"uh, hi ... my name is Lupoi ... sure, you can call me Loopy ... I'm a recruiter and your son did pretty well ... uh, would you like a cup of my special coffee ... I can sweeten a bit more if you like ... "

UCLA wanted Manny more but he committed in May and shut things down?

Didn't Luke commit before Manny and also shut things down? If I'm correct, he also didn't go on any other visits.

ayetee11;842340275 said:

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UCLA wanted Manny more but he committed in May and shut things down?

Didn't Luke commit before Manny and also shut things down? If I'm correct, he also didn't go on any other visits.

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you are basically right on both counts. (luke committed right after manny) but from what it seems like, UCLA wanted Manny but didn't get him when he locked in with ASU. UCLA also didn't show Rubenzer the respect he deserved, save for a last minute offer in December--if you can call it that.

not that this matters in the grand scheme of things.....but Enwere is a much better example of "bigtime schools offered after Cal first did"

beeasyed;842340321 said:

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you are basically right on both counts. (luke committed right after manny) but from what it seems like, UCLA wanted Manny but didn't get him when he locked in with ASU. UCLA also didn't show Rubenzer the respect he deserved, save for a last minute offer in December--if you can call it that.

not that this matters in the grand scheme of things.....but Enwere is a much better example of "bigtime schools offered after Cal first did"

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I blame To$h.

NYCGOBEARS;842340322 said:

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I blame To$h.

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i blame the NCAA having academic requirements, forcing To$h to resort to such tactics