http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/pac-12-coordinator-officiating-tony-corrente-resigns-larry-scott-mishandled-101114

Interesting
And it's especially interesting that there is still a question about how the game should be officiated because some schools like Oregon and furd can't accept any way, if it isn't their way.
That's my take.
One thing that should never happen.
A call should not be made if the foul did not happen.
If it is too hard to do that, then fouls should be called from the replay booth.
There are way too many PI calls that were never PI or were PI against the opposite team.
There are way to many illegal block in the back calls because the guy turned around as the block occurred, something that happens regularly on kicks/punts.
There are way to many personal foul calls because a player couldn't stop his momentum in time before making contact.
And there are way too many ticky tack calls for celebrating.

Admittedly, the problem isn't really the officials most of the time.
The problem is the people inside the rules committees who have virtually ruined the game via their own personal agenda.
Most of these rules smack of the typical paranoia that reigns in liability law firms etc. Sure lawsuits are real, just ask the NFL.
But the rules, as fashioned, have really done very little to make the game safer.
And the newer helmet technology is actually causing concussions rather than preventing them because there is too much space inside the helmet and that space allows the head to knock against the interior of the helmet too much.

Essentially the wrong people are invited to the table when making these decisions.
I'm sure players or former players aren't involved.
I'm sure the refs themselves aren't involved.

The big issue is transparency. The Pac-12 never admitted fault for penalties and went WAY overboard defending them by fining coaches left and right. Coaches have responded with defiance and going a bunch of other places up the chain to get what they want. I think if there was an explanation of calls or admission of fault by the conference on certain calls in a weekly dispatch on the Pac-12 site, that would be a good first step in lessening tensions between fans/players/coaches and refs/conference.

The NBA has started to get better at acknowledging bad calls that have impacted games, and it's starting to repair the image of officials a bit. If the Pac-12 did the same or did a thorough check up of their calls, then they might start looking better as a whole.

Well this validates what a lot people have been saying here for years, oregon, and to some extend stanford, appear to get more favorable calls than the other schools. It still baffles me how the refs missed that hit by Skov on Goff last year. It also explains why an athletic director felt like he was entitled to confront the refs during the middle of a game. Pereira is right that this is a big deal and needs to be dealt with, but what do we hear from the Pac-12? Crickets.

This article basically makes it sound like Mike threw his best buddy under the bus. He resigned because he got a lot of complaints from coaches and administrators about the refereeing? And the league didn't back him up enough? Go figure. If you ref everyone is going to be pissed at you. If you are a bad ref then even the people who hire you are going to be pissed at you. If you quit no one will ever think you are justified. When your best friend keeps saying you were wrong to quit, well...thanks a lot, pal. I think the Pac 12 refs need to back off on the penalties and the huddles and the slowing down of the game. Just make sure the game doesn't get out of hand but let the players play. If refs get punished for that or get fired for that then as their head you can be pissed and resigned. But as far as I know refs weren't being punished for calling bad games. They took heat from the coaches and the league. That's par for the course.

heartofthebear;842381562 said:

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And the newer helmet technology is actually causing concussions rather than preventing them because there is too much space inside the helmet and that space allows the head to knock against the interior of the helmet too much.

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Citation?

So basically Oregon and Stanford are the schools complaining the most when things don't go their way...not surprised.

82gradDLSdad;842381601 said:

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This article basically makes it sound like Mike threw his best buddy under the bus. He resigned because he got a lot of complaints from coaches and administrators about the refereeing? And the league didn't back him up enough? Go figure. If you ref everyone is going to be pissed at you. If you are a bad ref then even the people who hire you are going to be pissed at you. If you quit no one will ever think you are justified. When your best friend keeps saying you were wrong to quit, well...thanks a lot, pal. I think the Pac 12 refs need to back off on the penalties and the huddles and the slowing down of the game. Just make sure the game doesn't get out of hand but let the players play. If refs get punished for that or get fired for that then as their head you can be pissed and resigned. But as far as I know refs weren't being punished for calling bad games. They took heat from the coaches and the league. That's par for the course.

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Pure conjecture, but if they are close friends one would think Pereira spoke to Corrente before putting this out there and Corrente said fine, I should have stayed but I was making no difference - or something along those lines. Corrente doesn't want to look like a whiner but feels this issue needs to be addressed so he told Pereira he was cool with Pereira trying to bring attention to the issue. I would think it's a lot more serious than we know, particularly given that Pereira named names. Hopefully espn or some other "news" agency delves in because it is infuriating how bad Pac-12 officiating can be and how often it seems like some schools get the calls while others don't.

hanky1;842381614 said:

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So basically Oregon and Stanford are the schools complaining the most when things don't go their way...not surprised.

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I wonder how much of that pressure comes directly from nike.

okaydo;842381560 said:

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http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/pac-12-coordinator-officiating-tony-corrente-resigns-larry-scott-mishandled-101114

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I think the coaches have legitimate complaints. The Pac has by far the most penalties called (many of which now are picked-up) of any conference, and IMO the coaches, ADs and fans are not happy about it. It disrupts the flow of the game, (especially for offenses that desire speed). And the Cal, UofA, UCLA and other coaching staff are not happy about it for those that think that this is simply a Furd or Oregon complaint. The Notre Dame game 3 years ago in South Bend was the worse officiating I have ever witnessed, and even the Irish fans were aghast at the calls that went their way, and would turn around and chant "their your refs." Since when is "tackling the quarterback" a penalty on a key fourth down? I have seen other conference games (especially SEC) and the refs call a different game. If the Pac was evolving to the standards used by other conferences, great, and the coaches should know that it takes time. But to dismiss such a widespread disagreement with the current approach of Pac refs is absurd, and he coordinator needs to appreciate that. It would be like disagreeing with your customers, and telling them their wrong.

Additional comment: this is not about bias - I assume the calls even out over the long run. Its about the way the game is called, and in the case of tempo offenses, the bias provided by Pac 12 refs who slow the game down with penalties or the recent rash of "false penalties" (Furd had different complaints).

Well said... Everytime there is a good play in a P12 game, I await the inevitable flag. It is ruining the flow....

When he starts off with "it's a thankless job" I have to roll my eyes. It's your job. You're thanked in $$$. You're officiating a game, not exactly fighting fires or crime or teaching the future generation of Americans.

socaliganbear;842381637 said:

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When he starts off with "it's a thankless job" I have to roll my eyes. It's your job. You're thanked in $$$. You're officiating a game, not exactly fighting fires or crime or teaching the future generation of Americans.

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Classic clueless response.

How many games have you officiated?

My issue with the refereeing hasn't changed in years. The problem is that for football the referees are not professionals.

It started with the NFL. My father has a couple books written by ex-officials back in the 1990's. Both officials don't advertise it, but reading their bios they were involved in insurance sales. They had a regular job for Tuesday-Thursday, would usually work only a half day or less on Friday so they could fly out that night. Saturday would be spent meeting with the rest of the crew and preparing for the game and after the game sunday night they would rush to the airport since they were expected at their regular job on Monday.

And this philosophy of how to deal with referees obviously trickled down. If you want check around the county you live in and try to find how referees for the local high school games are selected. In most places you have to show up at 3-4 meetings/classes and pay to provide your own uniform and you too can be part of a crew refereeing JV football. If you do that and are somewhat successful (you last more than 2 years in other words) some of the college conferences may approach you and offer to hire you for one of their crews.

But its still part time work. You'll fly or drive in to referee the game and then head home to your regular job.

So what does this mean.
1) there is no guarantee referees agree on the application of rules from crew to crew.
2) there is no official requirement that referees be in shape (most are, but its not required, and many aren't in good enough shape to keep up with 18-21 year olds who are trying to get the attention of NFL scouts.)
3) There is almost no vested interest in referees improving.

I keep suggesting that if we want to see officiating improve, the sports have to go away from the philosophy that this is a part time job. The NBA, NL, AL and NHL have had to do this because of the number of games played per week. They can't hire a bunch of insurance agents and lawyers knowing that these men have weekends free to officiate, but football still tries to find men who love the sport enough to give up their days off to referee, and it shows.

So my solution
A) Pay referees an annual salary and hire them with the understanding that it is a full time, year round job.
B) referees will be expected to go to regular classes/seminars regarding the rules and proper application, these should include extensive film study both slow motion and full speed to review referee angles, locations, and who should be throwing flags for what kind of penalty. Too often we see officials who are out of position throwing a flag on something that wasn't in the zone they were supposed to be watching.
C) Make it clear that referees are expected to be in shape and that they will submit to regular vision, hearing and physical exams.
D) Reports on officials performance can be kept secret, but the reports do need to have teeth. An official with multiple "poor" reports in a season should not be invited to have their annual contract renewed. And it shouldn't take the fans marching on Pac-12 HQ to generate a "poor" report. The performance reports must be honest.

Odds of any conference doing this. 0.00% Heck the NFL tried to use replacement referees a few years ago because they didn't want to pay their current referees, and they do pay enough that most referees could retire from any part time job if they wanted.

These guys have 'real' careers. If they don't want the typical ref abuse why are they taking second jobs as Pac 12 football refs? And yes, I've officiated games and I will never to it again. I have no idea why anyone does it, in any sport. Everyone yells at you. I once was begged to ref pee-wee soccer that my daughter played. The head of the league said they were so short refs that they didn't care if I didn't know anything about the sport. They would teach me and all they wanted was for me to do my best. During a game I was reffing, poorly I readily admit, I kept hearing this loud voice yelling at me for every call and non-call. I finally stopped the game and looked over and IT WAS THE HEAD OF THE LEAGUE WHO HAD BEGGED ME TO REF!!. She told me she couldn't help it because I was so bad. I never reffed another game, ever.

FiatSlug;842381645 said:

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Classic clueless response.

How many games have you officiated?

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i know the ducks OL has gotten away with years of holding started with james .. so interesting he is not in the NFL any more never really panned out after moose dislocated his shoulder

82gradDLSdad;842381652 said:

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These guys have 'real' careers. If they don't want the typical ref abuse why are they taking second jobs as Pac 12 football refs? And yes, I've officiated games and I will never to it again. I have no idea why anyone does it, in any sport. Everyone yells at you. I once was begged to ref pee-wee soccer that my daughter played. The head of the league said they were so short refs that they didn't care if I didn't know anything about the sport. They would teach me and all they wanted was for me to do my best. During a game I was reffing, poorly I readily admit, I kept hearing this loud voice yelling at me for every call and non-call. I finally stopped the game and looked over and IT WAS THE HEAD OF THE LEAGUE WHO HAD BEGGED ME TO REF!!. She told me she couldn't help it because I was so bad. I never reffed another game, ever.

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So, you agree then, that it is a thankless job.

wifeisafurd;842381628 said:

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I think the coaches have legitimate complaints. The Pac has by far the most penalties called (many of which now are picked-up) of any conference, and IMO the coaches, ADs and fans are not happy about it. It disrupts the flow of the game, (especially for offenses that desire speed). And the Cal, UofA, UCLA and other coaching staff are not happy about it for those that think that this is simply a Furd or Oregon complaint. The Notre Dame game 3 years ago in South Bend was the worse officiating I have ever witnessed, and even the Irish fans were aghast at the calls that went their way, and would turn around and chant "their your refs." Since when is "tackling the quarterback" a penalty on a key fourth down? I have seen other conference games (especially SEC) and the refs call a different game. If the Pac was evolving to the standards used by other conferences, great, and the coaches should know that it takes time. But to dismiss such a widespread disagreement with the current approach of Pac refs is absurd, and he coordinator needs to appreciate that. It would be like disagreeing with your customers, and telling them their wrong.

Additional comment: this is not about bias - I assume the calls even out over the long run. Its about the way the game is called, and in the case of tempo offenses, the bias provided by Pac 12 refs who slow the game down with penalties or the recent rash of "false penalties" (Furd had different complaints).

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Agree. Though I feel for the officials who get complaints from different schools about calls that go against them, I also feel like this article demonstrates a certain tone-deafness on the part of the conference officials. The issue is less about bias than about over-zealous officiating. Fans and coaches would complain much less if the refs didn't insert themselves into the games so often. I mean, there's a reason we are always the most penalized conference, every year, and it's not because Stanford and Oregon complain too much.

mvargus also makes a good point that if leagues really wanted to improve football officiating they would make the refs full-time employees.

FiatSlug;842381662 said:

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So, you agree then, that it is a thankless job.

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Wait a minute everyone: being head of the refs was the guy's full time job, and it wast a thankless job for the last 3 plus years the guy occupied the position.

It's not thankless if you get paid.

FiatSlug;842381662 said:

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So, you agree then, that it is a thankless job.

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wifeisafurd;842381669 said:

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Wait a minute everyone: being head of the refs was the guy's full time job, and it wast a thankless job for the last 3 plus years the guy occupied the position.

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So, what? It appears that no one had Corrente's back and everyone was more than willing to criticize. That's the very definition of thankless. I wonder if anyone would have toughed it out under those circumstances.

The article is poorly written. It's absent of facts and generalizes about everything. Talk about pouting, here's Corrente quitting in the middle of the season. "If you don't like me, I'll take my toys and go home."

Oregon and Stanford are the biggest complainers allegedly. It's the same ploy John Wooden used at UCLA. Like a termite, he would eat away at the official all game long, never yelling or screaming just annoying the hell out of them, until they relent and call things his way. It's a good strategy. The administrators tell the refs after a while to "go easy on this one or that one, they've complained you call False Start too much." It works.

Including his best friend. That was my main point. I don't know what this guy faced only that his best friend said it was wrong to quit in the middle of the season. As someone who has quit in a similar manner in the past (ie. if you don't like my work I'll just leave) I can say I've never felt proud of this action and I've tried to eliminate it going forward.

FiatSlug;842381673 said:

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So, what? It appears that no one had Corrente's back and everyone was more than willing to criticize. That's the very definition of thankless. I wonder if anyone would have toughed it out under those circumstances.

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The Pac12 and CFB really need to professionalize FT officiating crews. The Pac has its own TV network and has big revenues but cheaping out on officiating is bush league. Letting poor officials screw your brand is really short-sighted. The thing is, the crappy officials have been around for awhile. It's not a new complaint. Just stupid stuff because it can be addressed.

p.s. the whole "you don't leave your job now" is the company/corporate line BS. If they want you gone they don't wait, why should you when the tables are turned? You have as much responsibility towards your work as your employers do to you. Sounds like the Pac12 wasn't covering its head refs back.

Pac12 (Larry Scott) wants a team in the playoff...a two loss team is not going to get in despite winning the P12 championship game.

What are "full time" P12 refs supposed to do Feb-July?

Bet glassesref isn't happy about this potential change to better officiating...

https://twitter.com/glassesref

82gradDLSdad;842381672 said:

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It's not thankless if you get paid.

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"That's what the money is for!" - Don Draper

Watching an NFL game is entertaining just by how different the officiating is compared to our conference games.

beelzebear;842381686 said:

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The Pac12 and CFB really need to professionalize FT officiating crews. The Pac has its own TV network and has big revenues but cheaping out on officiating is bush league. Letting poor officials screw your brand is really short-sighted. The thing is, the crappy officials have been around for awhile. It's not a new complaint. Just stupid stuff because it can be addressed.

p.s. the whole "you don't leave your job now" is the company/corporate line BS. If they want you gone they don't wait, why should you when the tables are turned? You have as much responsibility towards your work as your employers do to you. Sounds like the Pac12 wasn't covering its head refs back.

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Yeah I don't get why quitting in the middle of the season is such an egregious betrayal. I've worked in organizations where one is given responsibility with no authority to get things done, and it sucks. You're held accountable with no means to actually do your job. I'd have walked away too, if I'd had the ability to do so.

FiatSlug;842381645 said:

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Classic clueless response.

How many games have you officiated?

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Zero. But much like him, I get paid well for my services at my chosen full time job. Thanks? Lets get off our soapbox and cut the faux indignation.

bluehenbear;842381702 said:

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Pac12 (Larry Scott) wants a team in the playoff...a two loss team is not going to get in despite winning the P12 championship game.

What are "full time" P12 refs supposed to do Feb-July?

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Most schools will contract officials to show up at scrimmages and some practices to help out, they could do that. They also should be attending seminars and workshops to fully cover any rule changes, the techniques and responsibilities for their officiating position and in general refining their skills. Heck most pro athletes practice year round now, you practically have to if you want to keep up, officials should be doing the same thing.

socaliganbear;842381742 said:

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Zero. But much like him, I get paid well for my services at my chosen full time job. Thanks? Lets get off our soapbox and cut the faux indignation.

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Who, exactly is indignant? Not me, although I think you expect that from me.

If you want to demonstrate a total lack of understanding of Pereira's point, I think you've done remarkably well.

One of the rules that really pisses me off that I wish they'd enforce is Pick plays that Oregon has been doing for years. Now everyone in the pac is running it, including us. Besides the obvious fact that its really dangerous to defenders, you can't defend it. Unless your LBs and DBs have their head on a swivel. Even then...the pick already did its job..got seperation between you and the WR. IMHO, teams that run them should have players and coaches ejected.

Example:

FiatSlug;842381756 said:

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Who, exactly is indignant? Not me, although I think you expect that from me.

If you want to demonstrate a total lack of understanding of Pereira's point, I think you've done remarkably well.

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I agree with his larger point. That particular line "thankless job" is stupid. Still, I suppose it's harmless. It's just another one of those terms which is overused and in many cases rendered meaningless. Like "hero" or "role model". So he didn't have a very supportive work environment? Tough. He did what he thought he should do.

82gradDLSdad;842381672 said:

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It's not thankless if you get paid.

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"Thankless job" is not synonymous with "volunteer position." It's not the pay that makes a job NOT thankless. Are you saying that it's not possible to have a thankless job if it's a paid position?