Son-of-California;842486439 said:

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It is all relative. As a student, Berkeley seems like a "nice" place. It is close to the City snd school. As an adult, it seems like a toilet. IMO, If you have the dough, there is no place better in the world to live than San Francisco.

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I work in SF and love the City.
But it is really "pricey" now with all the Tech and East Asian money coming in.
If you are looking to have a family, you better have big bucks.

Also you'd better be ready for a different climate. The East Bay (West of the Caldecott Tunnel) is much warmer than SF during the Summer.
The East East Bay (East of the Caldecott Tunnel) is down right HOT.
The two years I lived in SF, summers were cold and damp ("that's why the lady is a tramp").

68great;842486473 said:

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I work in SF and love the City.
But it is really "pricey" now with all the Tech and East Asian money coming in.
If you are looking to have a family, you better have big bucks.

Also you'd better be ready for a different climate. The East Bay (West of the Caldecott Tunnel) is much warmer than SF during the Summer.
The East East Bay (East of the Caldecott Tunnel) is down right HOT.
The two years I lived in SF, summers were cold and damp ("that's why the lady is a tramp").

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When I was younger I didn't mind the cold SF summers so much, but nowadays I find East Bay weather is more my speed.

sycasey;842486474 said:

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When I was younger I didn't mind the cold SF summers so much, but nowadays I find East Bay weather is more my speed.

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I was the same.

Son-of-California;842486439 said:

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It is all relative. As a student, Berkeley seems like a "nice" place. It is close to the City snd school. As an adult, it seems like a toilet. IMO, If you have the dough, there is no place better in the world to live than San Francisco.

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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Hooray. Good post. I meant to reply similarly earlier. Berkeley is gorgeous. Some would make it out to be Richmond. It isn't. I wonder if those that share the sentiment that it's a toilet would prefer Berkeley to be like Irvine? Not me. No way.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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Agree. There are great areas of Berkeley with big family homes in the Claremont and Chabot Elmwood districts. All of Northside to Kensington. Thousand Oaks and Solano and Marin districts.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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+1,000,000

socaliganbear;842486218 said:

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Here's a list of upcoming developments in and around downtown:

There's more than this, as well as smaller projects on the south side.

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Good list to start. They are also planning on redesigning the downtown Berkeley BART Station Plaza.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2014/04/29/berkeley-bart-plaza-plans-not-a-bad-first-start/

GB54;842486309 said:

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.......Orinda is where you go to raise kids, do yoga and die. ......

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John Russell (Paul Newman): "We all die, just a question of when." Hombre (1967)

Not even close on this one. MORAGA. Intellectually stimulating, incredibly diverse and action packed 24 hours a day. HA!

docfrom74;842486571 said:

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Not even close on this one. MORAGA. Intellectually stimulating, incredibly diverse and action packed 24 hours a day. HA!

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Not sure if you're serious?

"The racial makeup of Moraga was 12,201 (76.2%) White, 277 (1.7%) African American, 31 (0.2%) Native American, 2,393 (14.9%) Asian, 25 (0.2%) Pacific Islander, 281 (1.8%) from other races, and 808 (5.0%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1,123 persons (7.0%)."

NYCGOBEARS;842486496 said:

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Hooray. Good post. I meant to reply similarly earlier. Berkeley is gorgeous. Some would make it out to be Richmond. It isn't. I wonder if those that share the sentiment that it's a toilet would prefer Berkeley to be like Irvine? Not me. No way.

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I'm sure a good half of the country (and probably quite a few people in every Memorial Stadium Saturday crowd) wish Berkeley could be more like Irvine, or Pleasanton, or Santa Clara. I don't get that at all, but that's fine. That's why those places exist.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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Seriously. If Berkeley were really such a hellhole, there's no way the housing prices would be so high.

Golden One;842485586 said:

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That's really funny! Is it meant to be sarcastic?

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Why is it funny?

If you tied me to a post at the corner of Oxford and Center St. with a five mile long rope, and I was not able to go beyond the five miles for months, I might get bored but would not be miserable.
I can't say that about a lot of cities.

OneTopOneChickenApple;842486671 said:

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If you tied me to a post at the corner of Oxford and Center St. with a five mile long rope, and I was not able to go beyond the five miles for months, I might get bored but would not be miserable.
I can't say that about a lot of cities.

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I think based on some math principal, you'd be able to hang at Ikea.

OneTopOneChickenApple;842486671 said:

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If you tied me to a post at the corner of Oxford and Center St. with a five mile long rope, and I was not able to go beyond the five miles for months, I might get bored but would not be miserable.
I can't say that about a lot of cities.

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Kinky!

GivemTheAxe;842486673 said:

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Kinky!

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Hmmm, I didn't consider that.

oskirules;842486562 said:

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Good list to start. They are also planning on redesigning the downtown Berkeley BART Station Plaza.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2014/04/29/berkeley-bart-plaza-plans-not-a-bad-first-start/

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That rendering is wildly unrealistic. Realistically every one of those tables will be occupied by homeless people.

pingpong2;842486761 said:

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That rendering is wildly unrealistic. Realistically every one of those tables will be occupied by homeless people.

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If the tables are for sidewalk vendors I am sure the Downtown Berkeley Ambassadors (And BPD) will keep them cleared.

Rockridge is actually Oakland. But the College avenue corridor between Elmwood and Rockridge is a great place to raise a family. Lots of great stuff to eat, do, etc. plus easy access to SF, highways, etc. Great place to live - except the schools are not the best. We had to pay for private. Berkeley does offer better schools. But Piedmont schools are much better - probably the best in the east bay. But you have to pay to live there. Prices are shooting up. Beyond schools, though, a great place to live.

Oski87;842486802 said:

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Rockridge is actually Oakland. But the College avenue corridor between Elmwood and Rockridge is a great place to raise a family. Lots of great stuff to eat, do, etc. plus easy access to SF, highways, etc. Great place to live - except the schools are not the best. We had to pay for private. Berkeley does offer better schools. But Piedmont schools are much better - probably the best in the east bay. But you have to pay to live there. Prices are shooting up. Beyond schools, though, a great place to live.

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The elementary schools in the areas mentioned are fairly good. Also the middle schools. The problems are with the High Schools.
My wife and I deliberately did not buy in Piedmont to be able to afford a bigger family home in Oakland. Our kids went to the public elementary schools. then to private High Schools. Thus only 4 years of private HS tuition.
The Catholic HS's (O'Dowd, St. Mary's, Holy Names, St. Joseph, Moreau) are less than 1/2 of the price of Head Royce or College Prep.
That is a stretch but within reach.
We found that many Piedmont parents also had their kids in private schools.

68great;842486834 said:

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The elementary schools in the areas mentioned are fairly good. Also the middle schools. The problems are with the High Schools.
My wife and I deliberately did not buy in Piedmont to be able to afford a bigger family home in Oakland. Our kids went to the public elementary schools. then to private High Schools. Thus only 4 years of private HS tuition.
The Catholic HS's (O'Dowd, St. Mary's, Holy Names, St. Joseph, Moreau) are less than 1/2 of the price of Head Royce or College Prep.
That is a stretch but within reach.
We found that many Piedmont parents also had their kids in private schools.

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I wouldn't say many, but that is because some people in Piedmont have more money than they know what to do with. Most families live their for schools. You pay a huge premium for the schools, so it is crazy to move there unless you have a kid in public school or you just don't care about money. When deciding between Oakland and Piedmont, you do have to consider that you will get your money back when you sell your house, most likely more than your money back, while the private school tuition you pay in Oakland is just gone.

Also, I would say the elementary schools in those neighborhoods in Oakland are good. the middle schools are so-so. The high schools are poor.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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I find visiting Berkeley to be full of contrasts. The western flat lands have areas that look like a scene out of True Detective, yet there are very nice areas in the hills and towards Claremont and continuing into Oakland. The views can be terrific, the University area is vibrant, the food can be great, and so on. Traffic is hellish, planning is poor or nonexistent, the politics can be weird at times, and there are other defects, such as the first hole at Tilden sucks unless you can feather a nice 4 iron (inside joke). Its really a matter of the pluses and minuses and what you like. I would not want to live in Berkeley before the Wine Country, Marin, Morro Bay, the City (assuming I was a billionaire) or even areas of the Peninsula or East Bay, but that is my personal preference. I used to think of Berkeley as a dump, but I have come to realize it has a lot to offer. I just don't think as someone who is 58 with a family its a fit. As a young adult, Berkeley might be at the top of my list.

I have friends with kids that will be school age shortly and will be making the move from Montclair to Piedmont precisely because of the schools. Their impression is that the schools in oakland that their kids would be going to were a far cry from good. Looks like Thornhill is the closest elementary school (less than half a mile) and it seems great but maybe their kids wouldn't end up there, I don't know.

I hear Piedmont High has a great bird-calling program...

[video=youtube;PEhnrH8p6Fk][/video]

OaktownBear;842486841 said:

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I wouldn't say many, but that is because some people in Piedmont have more money than they know what to do with. Most families live their for schools. You pay a huge premium for the schools, so it is crazy to move there unless you have a kid in public school or you just don't care about money. When deciding between Oakland and Piedmont, you do have to consider that you will get your money back when you sell your house, most likely more than your money back, while the private school tuition you pay in Oakland is just gone.

Also, I would say the elementary schools in those neighborhoods in Oakland are good. the middle schools are so-so. The high schools are poor.

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I agree with your analysis. There were several factors why we considered:

We decided to buy a larger home in Oakland and pay the tuition for private HS since:
1. the cost of private HS for 4 years was less than the differential cost of buying a smaller home in Piedmont.
2. the house in Oakland and its yard were much larger than we could have afforded in Piedmont; and with 3 kids and a wife, i wanted as much room as I could afford.
3. Admittedly a home in Piedmont would have appreciated more than my house in Montclair, but to realize on that greater appreciation would have required my selling the Montclair house. This would then have required that I buy a house some place farther away; and I was happy living in Montclair. I have always agreed with those experts who say: don't buy a house as an investment. It is a place to live. It becomes an investment only when you sell.

grandmastapoop;842486574 said:

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Not sure if you're serious?

"The racial makeup of Moraga was 12,201 (76.2%) White, 277 (1.7%) African American, 31 (0.2%) Native American, 2,393 (14.9%) Asian, 25 (0.2%) Pacific Islander, 281 (1.8%) from other races, and 808 (5.0%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1,123 persons (7.0%)."

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Salt Lake city has more diversity.

Unit2Sucks;842486870 said:

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I have friends with kids that will be school age shortly and will be making the move from Montclair to Piedmont precisely because of the schools. Their impression is that the schools in oakland that their kids would be going to were a far cry from good. Looks like Thornhill is the closest elementary school (less than half a mile) and it seems great but maybe their kids wouldn't end up there, I don't know.

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Thornhill, Montclair, Hillcrest, Joaquin Miller, Chabot are all good elementary schools (these are the main schools in or around Montclair/Rockridge. Many Oakland Residents try to get their kids into these.
Monterra is the Jr High and is just OK.

Skyline is the best public HS in Oakland but not a great HS.
Most people who can afford it put their kids in private HS's. O'Dowd, St. Mary's, Holy Names (Catholic) Head Royce or College Prep (the most expensive private HS's) and a number of other schools Bentley, Redwood Day school, Park Day School, Aurora (some of these are K-12)

there are a number of good Catholic elementary schools in the Montclair/Rockridge: Corpus Christi, St. Teresa's (which are K-8).

IMO There is not that much of a difference between the best Oakland elementary schools and the Piedmont elementary schools. All have excellent PTA support. HS is the most important. So if you want to spend your money spend it on HS.

BTW all 3 of my kids went to Montclair. All my kids got into Cal.

68great;842486978 said:

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Thornhill, Montclair, Hillcrest, Joaquin Miller, Chabot are all good elementary schools (these are the main schools in or around Montclair/Rockridge. Many Oakland Residents try to get their kids into these.
Monterra is the Jr High and is just OK.

Skyline is the best public HS in Oakland but not a great HS.
Most people who can afford it put their kids in private HS's. O'Dowd, St. Mary's, Holy Names (Catholic) Head Royce or College Prep (the most expensive private HS's) and a number of other schools Bentley, Redwood Day school, Park Day School, Aurora (some of these are K-12)

there are a number of good Catholic elementary schools in the Montclair/Rockridge: Corpus Christi, St. Teresa's (which are K-8).

IMO There is not that much of a difference between the best Oakland elementary schools and the Piedmont elementary schools. All have excellent PTA support. HS is the most important. So if you want to spend your money spend it on HS.

BTW all 3 of my kids went to Montclair. All my kids got into Cal.

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I would agree with your view on all the schools noted in Oakland. Mine attended public schools until middle/high school, and I have first hand experience with Redwood Day, O'Dowd, and Head-Royce. The only other observation I would have is that, as some neighborhoods in Oakland change, the schools can also change. I live close to Glenview and believe that it has improved dramatically in the last 5 years or so and is now much more like Montclair (and so is Redwood Heights). We also chose to stay in Oakland rather than move to Piedmont, for a variety of reasons, and I have no regrets about that choice.

Son-of-California;842486439 said:

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It is all relative. As a student, Berkeley seems like a "nice" place. It is close to the City snd school. As an adult, it seems like a toilet. IMO, If you have the dough, there is no place better in the world to live than San Francisco.

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Ironically, San Francisco has far more of its denizens using the sidewalks as a toilet than Berkeley.

OaktownBear;842486495 said:

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I read posts like this from some of you and I wonder if you guys have been more than 3 blocks off campus. Berkeley is in no way a toilet. I grew up in Marin. I'm not some 19 year old that thinks its nice because I've never seen anything better. No. I don't want to live on Telegraph or Shattuck downtown, but much of Berkeley is made up of tree lined streets, wooded hills, great neighborhood restaurants, and architecturally significant houses. It's bordered on one of the largest strings of open space parks in any urban area. The hills have incredible views. Nobody who has actually been around a significant part of Berkeley would call it a toilet. It empirically is not. You'd think some of you have only seen people's park.

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This.. Wish more of the women wore their hair long as I don't dig the Peter Pan look , but the entire north side is an awesome place to live and raise kids. Both my kids went to Cragmont (with good teachers and beautiful panoramic views of the entire bay), the newly renovated King is also very good, as well as the IB program at Berkeley high.

Alameda all day. Isolated but central.

As an outsider (non-Bay Area resident) one observation from most of these posts is that there is an implied or overt level of affluence. To discuss living in Montclair or Piedmont or Orinda and sending children to private schools indicates a significant income from an established profession. A complete Cal homer would say that this should not be a surprise as we are Cal grads, after all, but that is no guarantee, and graduates from other institutions, and non-graduates, also have successful careers. So really, to debate the best place to live in the Bay Area is really to debate the best place to live if you have the money. Or, if you're just out of college and renting and not worried about what school to send your children to. I was like that when I graduated a long time ago but by the time I got married 8 years later we moved back to my home town and never looked back. I absolutely love being here, but my personality is such that I embrace being rooted in my long-time family history here, and that is certainly not the case for everyone. I suppose it would be nice to live closer so I could go to more Cal sports events but it's close enough that I have had football season tickets for almost 40 years.

OneTopOneChickenApple;842486668 said:

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Why is it funny?

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I'm surprised that you have to ask.