That is what it feels like to me. Overmatched Talent wise and our wins come against teams in the bottom half of the conference. I am happy that we seem to have improved relative to where we were during the dumpster fire and I am happy that the academics are better but it is hard right now to see light at the end of the tunnel or the foundations for a truly competitive football program.

socaltownie;842581961 said:

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That is what it feels like to me. Overmatched Talent wise and our wins come against teams in the bottom half of the conference. I am happy that we seem to have improved relative to where we were during the dumpster fire and I am happy that the academics are better but it is hard right now to see light at the end of the tunnel or the foundations for a truly competitive football program.

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Pretty much agree with this 100%. Pretty disappointed in the non-development of the team over the season (primarily the offense).

I wasn't around for Theder. Care to tell us more about it?

socaltownie;842581961 said:

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That is what it feels like to me. Overmatched Talent wise and our wins come against teams in the bottom half of the conference. I am happy that we seem to have improved relative to where we were during the dumpster fire and I am happy that the academics are better but it is hard right now to see light at the end of the tunnel or the foundations for a truly competitive football program.

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Completely agree. Dykes in not the coach to recruit top talent, nor is he the coach to lead a team to greatness. We are stuck in mediocrity.

CaptOski;842581975 said:

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I wasn't around for Theder. Care to tell us more about it?

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Frankly a similar trajectory to the present. Mike White got in trouble with academics. Theder promoted. We would do OK against lesser teams and then get physically beat up, especially by Washington (who was good back then) and USC. The last 2 years were a dumpster fire and then we got Kapp. God what a horrible run. Then we got Synder who seemed on the cusp and we pissed it away. Oh to be a Bear.

Golden One;842581977 said:

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Completely agree. Dykes in not the coach to recruit top talent, nor is he the coach to lead a team to greatness. We are stuck in mediocrity.

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With our eligibility requirements there is no coach that could recruit top talent that would even think of coming here. That's the Catch-22 of Cal football.

Here's one parallel: Theder was a good offensive coordinator who turned his offense over to Mouse Davis and the Run and Shoot. Sonny was a good offensive coordinator (at least I think he was if he got a head coaching job after the job he did) who has turned over complete control of his offense to Tony Franklin and the TFS. That tells me that they don't have supreme confidence in what they do. And I'm becoming less and less impressed with our offense...just like what happened when Theder was the head coach. Both are nice guys but...

CaptOski;842581975 said:

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I wasn't around for Theder. Care to tell us more about it?

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Lol... did you write that bs crying or insanely laughing?

At least Theder beat Furd. Back then it was pretty much a 50-50 proposition going into the game.

82 - Can't agree with your summation. In his last year (1981), Theder was forced to take on Mouse Davis by the second worst AD we have had - the egotist AD Dave Maggard. The Run and Shoot worked for precisely one half of the season opener (against Texas A&M). I know, I was there as a season ticket holder I had a brief moment of hope. Then Gale Gilbert tore his knee on a seam in the turf and it was all downhill and Theder was gone. The next year, using all of Theder's coaches and recruits, Joe Kapp had a magical year before imploding.

bar20;842581994 said:

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With our eligibility requirements there is no coach that could recruit top talent that would even think of coming here. That's the Catch-22 of Cal football.

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I'm no expert on this subject by ANY means, but personally I think this is complete BS. There are plenty of academic schools which produce winning football teams. We fall back on this excuse to legitimize our failure. Cal has PLENTY to sell in recruiting student-athletes IMO. Getting the ball rolling will be hard, but with the right coaching staff it is completely 'doable.' Once established, I don't think it is horribly difficult to maintain. If Stanford can do it, so can we.

88Bear;842582030 said:

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I'm no expert on this subject by ANY means, but personally I think this is complete BS. There are plenty of academic schools which produce winning football teams. We fall back on this excuse to legitimize our failure. Cal has PLENTY to sell in recruiting student-athletes IMO. Getting the ball rolling will be hard, but with the right coaching staff it is completely 'doable.' Once established, I don't think it is horribly difficult to maintain. If Stanford can do it, so can we.

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Stanford makes it easy to stay eligible. Our faculty is not on the same page as our athletics department in that regard.

pingpong2;842582033 said:

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Stanford makes it easy to stay eligible. Our faculty is not on the same page as our athletics department in that regard.

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Personally I want specifics - I hear that WAY too often. Besides, I went here - getting a B average wasn't hard in MANY majors IMO.

CAL6371;842582024 said:

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The Run and Shoot worked for precisely one half of the season opener (against Texas A&M). I know, I was there as a season ticket holder I had a brief moment of hope. Then Gale Gilbert tore his knee on a seam in the turf and it was all downhill ....

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My memories are hazy, but didn't we go up 21-0 with the Run and Shoot against A&M in the first quarter, then Gilbert blew out his knee? And we ended up losing 29-28? Oh to be a Golden Bears fan.

Yes, something like that.

88Bear;842582035 said:

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Personally I want specifics - I hear that WAY too often. Besides, I went here - getting a B average wasn't hard in MANY majors IMO.

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Here are your specifics, provided by ColoradoBear1: LINK: http://bearinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?92737-Daily-Cal-on-Grade-Deflation&p=842496665&viewfull=1#post842496665



In some years it looks like Furd gave their students nearly .4 of a grade point higher than Cal...on average. That's a pretty big stat spread when you consider the numbers. Cal has always graded hard, and other universities acknowledge this. Cal is not for the weak. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out an almost half point bump will make getting passing grades easier, and thus eligibility is easier.

pingpong2;842582033 said:

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Stanford makes it easy to stay eligible. Our faculty is not on the same page as our athletics department in that regard.

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Whats the difference between Cal and UCLA then?

Olee Berkeley-eye;842582037 said:

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My memories are hazy, but didn't we go up 21-0 with the Run and Shoot against A&M in the first quarter, then Gilbert blew out his knee? And we ended up losing 29-28? Oh to be a Golden Bears fan.

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The Run and Shoot was dazzling, A&M had no clue what was happening ... then Gilbert went down.
Mouse Davis quit before the season was finished.

Didn't know about Maggard's influence. I was at the A&M game too. And you're right, Gale Gilbert was tearing up A&M. I always thought Theder was like Jimmy Carter: really smart guy, genuinely nice guy, not so good leader in terms of results. Sonny may be that same guy.

CAL6371;842582024 said:

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82 - Can't agree with your summation. In his last year (1981), Theder was forced to take on Mouse Davis by the second worst AD we have had - the egotist AD Dave Maggard. The Run and Shoot worked for precisely one half of the season opener (against Texas A&M). I know, I was there as a season ticket holder I had a brief moment of hope. Then Gale Gilbert tore his knee on a seam in the turf and it was all downhill and Theder was gone. The next year, using all of Theder's coaches and recruits, Joe Kapp had a magical year before imploding.

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82gradDLSdad;842582107 said:

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Didn't know about Maggard's influence. I was at the A&M game too. And you're right, Gale Gilbert was tearing up A&M. I always thought Theder was like Jimmy Carter: really smart guy, genuinely nice guy, not so good leader in terms of results. Sonny may be that same guy.

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Agree, SD is too nice or lacks the internal fire. Sorry, if he got in my face and looked pissed, I wouldn't be scared. Don't sense the fire.

Should I get out my bell bottom pants, polyester shirts and get a perm?

You are correct on all counts. I remember that the bio on Maggard in the 1976 Cal fb Press Guide was twice as long for Maggard than it was for White.
I once sat with a guy who did my taxes and was close to the program at an All Star game in 1976. Theder came in and sat with us (he was OC at the time). He was very nice, and very approachable. However, he was no Mike White in terms of charisma, and not a leader.

SonOfCalVa;842582071 said:

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The Run and Shoot was dazzling, A&M had no clue what was happening ... then Gilbert went down.
Mouse Davis quit before the season was finished.

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MEMORIES!!! It was amazing for 1 half. Then knee gets blow out and we get J (doesn't stand for anything, just "J" Torchio who mastered the one hop pass. It was amazing. He would short hop receivers over and over and the ball would come up and hit them RIGHT in the hands in stride. You couldn't do it 1 in a hundred times. J (didn't stand for anything, just "J" did it over and over and over.

socaltownie;842582953 said:

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MEMORIES!!! It was amazing for 1 half. Then knee gets blow out and we get J (doesn't stand for anything, just "J" Torchio who mastered the one hop pass. It was amazing. He would short hop receivers over and over and the ball would come up and hit them RIGHT in the hands in stride. You couldn't do it 1 in a hundred times. J (didn't stand for anything, just "J" did it over and over and over.

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Oh Man...YOU'RE KILLING ME!
Ive got tears in my eyes right now because everything you said was TRUE.

socaltownie;842582953 said:

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MEMORIES!!! It was amazing for 1 half. Then knee gets blow out and we get J (doesn't stand for anything, just "J" Torchio who mastered the one hop pass. It was amazing. He would short hop receivers over and over and the ball would come up and hit them RIGHT in the hands in stride. You couldn't do it 1 in a hundred times. J (didn't stand for anything, just "J" did it over and over and over.

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Torchio was something else. So true with the one hop pass, which he sometimes threw into the ground so hard I recall one sportswriter saying, "It looks like he's trying to kill gophers." He would then sail a pass so far out of reach it either looked like it would fly right out of the stadium or knock out an unsuspecting vendor 60 rows up in the stands. Then he would complete a 35 yard bullet to a receiver with about 5 guys hanging onto him.
Bit of trivia, he played a bit for the San Antonio Gunslingers in the old USFL in 1984. More trivia, the starting QB for the Oakland Invaders while the USFL existed (1983 - 85) was another Cal alum, Fred Besana, who was the Bears starter in 1975 before giving way to Joe Roth.

82gradDLSdad;842582107 said:

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Didn't know about Maggard's influence. I was at the A&M game too. And you're right, Gale Gilbert was tearing up A&M. I always thought Theder was like Jimmy Carter: really smart guy, genuinely nice guy, not so good leader in terms of results. Sonny may be that same guy.

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He brought in ex NFL players to help that first year. As they moved on, joe brought in some real clowns. Not a good guy to work for, and the pay was sh1tty.

:gobears:

My favorite Torchio pass occurred in the 1980 UCLA game. I think we had some momentum, maybe after a turnover. J rolled out right and had a receiver wide open. The crowd was ready to roar. A UCLA LB was right in between Torchio and the receiver trying to figure out whether to rush J or drop back and cover the receiver. He was in no man's land. Torchio threw it right to him. The guy was so stunned it took him a second to begin the runback. It was the worst throw I had ever seen. The crowd went silent and the route was on. Who knew that this 9th straight loss to UCLA would only mark the halfway point of the losing streak. Torchio would just be a blip on the Cal football futility radar.

socaltownie;842582953 said:

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MEMORIES!!! It was amazing for 1 half. Then knee gets blow out and we get J (doesn't stand for anything, just "J" Torchio who mastered the one hop pass. It was amazing. He would short hop receivers over and over and the ball would come up and hit them RIGHT in the hands in stride. You couldn't do it 1 in a hundred times. J (didn't stand for anything, just "J" did it over and over and over.

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82gradDLSdad;842581997 said:

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Here's one parallel: Theder was a good offensive coordinator who turned his offense over to Mouse Davis and the Run and Shoot. Sonny was a good offensive coordinator (at least I think he was if he got a head coaching job after the job he did) who has turned over complete control of his offense to Tony Franklin and the TFS. That tells me that they don't have supreme confidence in what they do. And I'm becoming less and less impressed with our offense...just like what happened when Theder was the head coach. Both are nice guys but...

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Mouse Davis was "Advertised" on the AC Transit buses, particularly the 51, when he was hired by Theder Franklin is not on bus broadsides. So there is that difference.

Lloyd John Torchio II was the winning quarterback in the 1980 Big Game. Who lost? Lloyd John Elway II.

I already have enough nightmares thank you

88Bear;842582030 said:

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I'm no expert on this subject by ANY means, but personally I think this is complete BS. There are plenty of academic schools which produce winning football teams. We fall back on this excuse to legitimize our failure. Cal has PLENTY to sell in recruiting student-athletes IMO. Getting the ball rolling will be hard, but with the right coaching staff it is completely 'doable.' Once established, I don't think it is horribly difficult to maintain. If Stanford can do it, so can we.

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+1

We are sounding just like Stanford under Teevans/Harris pre Harbaugh and UCLA under Dorrell pre Mora. It gets old.

82gradDLSdad;842583017 said:

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My favorite Torchio pass occurred in the 1980 UCLA game. I think we had some momentum, maybe after a turnover. J rolled out right and had a receiver wide open. The crowd was ready to roar. A UCLA LB was right in between Torchio and the receiver trying to figure out whether to rush J or drop back and cover the receiver. He was in no man's land. Torchio threw it right to him. The guy was so stunned it took him a second to begin the runback. It was the worst throw I had ever seen. The crowd went silent and the route was on. Who knew that this 9th straight loss to UCLA would only mark the halfway point of the losing streak. Torchio would just be a blip on the Cal football futility radar.

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I was there too. Thanks for ruining my day.

I think it's kind of funny now. I mean it was 35 years ago. I wasn't even married and having kids wasn't even a thought. My kids just turned 30 and I've been married for 32 years. I'm old. Ok, now I'm ruining MY day.

Letsroll;842583209 said:

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I was there too. Thanks for ruining my day.

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82gradDLSdad;842583232 said:

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I think it's kind of funny now. I mean it was 35 years ago. I wasn't even married and having kids wasn't even a thought. My kids just turned 30 and I've been married for 32 years. I'm old. Ok, now I'm ruining MY day.

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Hopefully your kids turned out ok and you love your wife. Yes your older but I bet you wouldn't trade them for a Cal Rose Bowl.

Depends on the day of the trade. :-)
Nah, Cal football is a distant third to my wife and kids.

bar20;842583236 said:

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Hopefully your kids turned out ok and you love your wife. Yes your older but I bet you wouldn't trade them for a Cal Rose Bowl.

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