Dykes defenders

23,087 Views | 220 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by sycasey
heartofthebear
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6bear6;842609027 said:

Why do you people refuse to acknowledge that 2013 was a Murphy's Law of football. Injuries beyond imagination, no senior leadership, one of the toughest schedules in the country - both OOC and conference, the need to start freshmen at key positions such as cornerback, one starter left from the recruiting haul of 2009, the need to have those on probation or failing to buy-in to leave the program. With all of that, you harp on 1-11. We were lucky just to field a team let alone win games.

In a short while, we will know whether Sonny is coming back or leaving. Why not ease off and let's see what happens.


Because waiting to let the AD pay an expensive extension that will cost Cal for several years is a mistake we can't afford to make; as if anything said here matters anyway.
bigcocoon007
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SonOfCalVa;842608996 said:

Which resulted in how many championships when they played college football for Cal?

BTW, we're discussing COLLEGE football, not "the league" about which many don't give a sh!t anymore.
Raise yer haind ifn yew caint keep up, bigcoco_nut.


04 was a 2 loss team
05 was 8 win team with major QB issues
06 was a 10-win team
07 was considered a horrible year and the beginning of the end yet we still finish with 7 wins and a bowl vivtory
08 we win 9 games and also beat the U

Desean, Marshawn, etc. Won quite a few games here. If you rate coaches on conference championships, then fire Dykes.
HaasBear04
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Dbearson;842608775 said:

He's the best coach we can get and if you don't agree your flat out wrong


QED brah
RJABear
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I am not a Sonny supporter, but I will defend him in this thread. He stepped in and cleaned up a toxic waste site in 2011. The team academics are repaired to an acceptable level. The 7 wins and return to bowl eligibility is nice to see. We all want Cal to win 9 / 10 games and compete for a championship. Sonny's staff have not demonstrated an ability to reach that level in spite of a quality QB and veteran team.

Coaching is a risky profession. People get fired every year. If Sonny can get a guaranteed 4-year deal at $3 million per year, he should take it. He owes it to his family.

If he does move on this year, I would thank Sonny for a good job. We should all then focus on the players, recruits, and new coaching staff.
HaasBear04
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calguru;842609018 said:

So you are basing your positive opinion on a comparison to historically terrible stats he earned? Improvement from horrific to terrible is not a reason to defend someone if they're the ones who lowered the bar. (And if you're into stats as the be-all-end-all, check the stats vs conference teams)


Who would ever have thought *1-11 would be Sonny's ace in the hole?
ianbearnson
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calguru;842609018 said:

So you are basing your positive opinion on a comparison to historically terrible stats he earned? Improvement from horrific to terrible is not a reason to defend someone if they're the ones who lowered the bar. (And if you're into stats as the be-all-end-all, check the stats vs conference teams)


"....terrible stats he earned"? I'm not exactly sure what that means, but a new coach and a new system arrived in 2013, inheriting players and a toxic situation left by Tedford, and the team was predictably awful. Should that team have won more games? Maybe. But 1 or 2 more, not 6 or 7.

Two seasons later, virtually all statistical measures have improved -- including stats and record in conference games, although I'm pretty sure that non-conference games count, too -- and the team has 7 wins and a bowl. It is not unreasonable to expect 8 or 9 wins next year, a better conference record, and a better bowl, despite losing Goff (if that comes to pass) and departing WRs. Regardless of who the QB is, the OL will be better, the running game will be better, and the young group of WRs will be deeper, if not quite as experienced or talented, as the departing bunch. And the defense will improve.

Nobody said stats are a "be-all-end-all", but there is a clear correlation between stats I listed and wins. If those stats continue to trend positively, there will be more wins, don't you think?

If we're stagnating at 6 or 7 wins a year for 3 or 4 years after this one, then it's time to re-evaluate. But until then, Sonny should be recognized and rewarded for significantly improving a bad situation (football, character, and academics) that he inherited from Tedford. Every time you make a change, you (sometimes needlessly) run the risk of moving the program backwards, and all of the evidence available at this point suggests progress, so why make a move now?
FremontBear
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RJABear;842609088 said:

I am not a Sonny supporter, but I will defend him in this thread. He stepped in and cleaned up a toxic waste site in 2011. The team academics are repaired to an acceptable level. The 7 wins and return to bowl eligibility is nice to see. We all want Cal to win 9 / 10 games and compete for a championship. Sonny's staff have not demonstrated an ability to reach that level in spite of a quality QB and veteran team.

Coaching is a risky profession. People get fired every year. If Sonny can get a guaranteed 4-year deal at $3 million per year, he should take it. He owes it to his family.

If he does move on this year, I would thank Sonny for a good job. We should all then focus on the players, recruits, and new coaching staff.


The crux of the issue is can Dykes make Cal competitive with the top-third of the Pac-12 in most years? If the answer is no, then he's at best a temporary solution and would eventually need to be replaced anyway. The bottom line is 7 to 8 wins a season don't cut it when you can't beat a single top Pac-12 team (Furd, SC, UCLA, Oregon) in 3 seasons.
68great
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heartofthebear;842609008 said:

Give me a break.
Recruiting always takes an initial hit during a coaching change.
Plus, name one player currently committed that will break into the 2 deep next season.
Maybe Weaver and one or 2 OTs and maybe Gilliam

You are going to paralyze the program over 4 HS players?


I am not going to paralyze a program over 4 HS players. Didn't you notice that i said he has proven to be a competent (not great as yet) coach. In view of Cal's history I would say 7-5 is competent. If 7-5 should prove to be his ceiling, i would be in favor of getting rid of him. but the jury is still out on whether 7-5 is his ceiling.
sycasey
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ianbearnson;842609005 said:

But Sonny has done everything he was hired to do, and there's no reason to think that the positive trend won't continue next year.


I can think of one reason: no more Jared Goff.
68great
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HaasBear04;842609095 said:

Who would ever have thought *1-11 would be Sonny's ace in the hole?


1-11 is not his "ace in the hole". I ignore it. I consider 2014 to be his first fair test (5-7); and 2015 to be another fair test (7-5). so far so good.
Enough?????
NO!!!!!!
Let's see what's next.
SonOfCalVa
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sycasey;842609140 said:

I can think of one reason: no more Jared Goff.


Jared's success was created by Sonny and Tony via thousands and thousands of reps, and they're doing the same for the other quarterbacks simultaneously.
SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA
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Dykes and Franklin had the best offense in the nation in 2012 with Colby Cameron.
Wags
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FremontBear;842609126 said:

The crux of the issue is can Dykes make Cal competitive with the top-third of the Pac-12 in most years? If the answer is no, then he's at best a temporary solution and would eventually need to be replaced anyway. The bottom line is 7 to 8 wins a season don't cut it when you can't beat a single top Pac-12 team (Furd, SC, UCLA, Oregon) in 3 seasons.


Agreed 100%
When you are 0-12 over the last 3 seasons against the Big 4 in your conference, why would that be viewed as remotely competitive?
calgo430
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we need to pay big money to get someone good. its not going to happen. without goff next years head coach is headed for trouble.
59bear
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I'm not a Dykes backer but with the shelf life of a D1 coach being what it is, I don't blame him for checking around, especially as he is unlikely, near term at least, to have a more compelling resume to pitch. I presume he's doing this with the full knowledge of the AD. Hell, maybe it is Mike Williams' way of trying to move him along without paying a buyout.
beelzebear
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SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA;842609158 said:

Dykes and Franklin had the best offense in the nation in 2012 with Colby Cameron.


They also had the worst defense in the country, which they carried on to Cal...for 4 years running of horrible defense (1 at LaTech, 3 at Cal).
OskiMD
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FremontBear;842608782 said:

Dykes should be defended because...

[LIST=1]
  • Tedford left such a mess
  • 1-11 year should be forgotten because Tedford left such a mess
  • Horrible hire Andy Buh is Tedford's fault, because he left such a mess. Dykes can't possibly be blamed
  • Terrible Special Teams play is Tedford's fault, because he left such a mess
  • 5-7 year is amazing achievement, because it's an enormous improvement over 1-11
  • Cal defense setting NCAA records, for the wrong reasons, is Tedford's fault, because he left such a mess
  • 7-5 this year is achievement beyond measure and Dykes deserves all the glory. The two blowout losses are Tedford's fault, because he left such a mess
  • Goff's great play is a testament to Dykes' great coaching ability. His erratic play in the 5 losses are Tedford's facult, because he left such a mess
  • OL woes are obviously not Dykes' fault, because Tedford left such a mess
  • Dykes fixed graduation rates that Tedford messed up so badly. Besides, 3-9 is OK as long as Cal remains "Yale of the West."



    Tedford left such a mess, so it doesn't matter Dykes gifted Cal with 0-12 against Stanford, USC, UCLA, and Oregon. It was Tedford's fault. Ergo, Sunshine Dykes deserves a raise, an extension, and a fair chance to make Cal the next Oregon State.


  • Lol.
    sycasey
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    SonOfCalVa;842609149 said:

    Jared's success was created by Sonny and Tony via thousands and thousands of reps, and they're doing the same for the other quarterbacks simultaneously.


    Even if they are doing the absolute best possible job to develop a QB, great college QBs don't come along all that often. It's very likely we see a dropoff at the position.
    heartofthebear
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    68great;842609136 said:

    I am not going to paralyze a program over 4 HS players. Didn't you notice that i said he has proven to be a competent (not great as yet) coach. In view of Cal's history I would say 7-5 is competent. If 7-5 should prove to be his ceiling, i would be in favor of getting rid of him. but the jury is still out on whether 7-5 is his ceiling.


    How is 7-5 competent when
    1) they couldn't run on short yardage situations when they needed to, a regression from 2014
    2) Dykes coaches the outside receivers and they start dropping balls, which cost Cal at least 2 games.
    3) They had a WR unit for the ages and a record shattering QB.
    4) Almost all the elite programs in the conference were in a down year and so was Washington and ASU (2 of our 7 wins)
    5) The offense did not significantly improve from 2014 and Dykes is an offensive coach with more experienced players. (The defense delivered the wins against the Washington schools)

    ?????

    Maybe you don't think these are valid points, but they are the basis for my opinion.

    FYI, I have posted that I am not one to hire and fire. I believe in having patience with the process of gradual improvements, particularly at Cal where academics are a challenge.
    But that doesn't mean we should actually pay more for it before the process is complete.

    If Dykes wants to coach under the current contract or something similar, fine.
    That does not seem to be the case.
    heartofthebear
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    sycasey;842609381 said:

    Even if they are doing the absolute best possible job to develop a QB, great college QBs don't come along all that often. It's very likely we see a dropoff at the position.


    That is true.
    But I have watched Forrest play and practice.
    It's not like we are going from Longshore directly to Maynard here.

    Goff will be missed, probably for years, but Forrest can play and can win.
    going4roses
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    Who are the best recruiters in the Pac 12 With established California Hs/jc relationships?

    Top ten?
    SonOfCalVa
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    sycasey;842609381 said:

    Even if they are doing the absolute best possible job to develop a QB, great college QBs don't come along all that often. It's very likely we see a dropoff at the position.


    To whatever extent Goff is "great", he was developed by this staff, starting from scratch.
    The Goff of today was a work in progress, and still is.
    Backups have been undergoing development also. They aren't chopped liver.
    DrDanger
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    WSU lost the all time yardage passer in PAC12 history last year.
    They did better this year with a RS freshman....
    And anyone still remember Sonnie Cumbie @ TT?

    I'm not very worried about offensive production next year, regardless of who the skill players are in this offense..
    Both sides of the line is what I worry about.
    SonOfCalVa
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    59bear;842609168 said:

    I'm not a Dykes backer but with the shelf life of a D1 coach being what it is, I don't blame him for checking around, especially as he is unlikely, near term at least, to have a more compelling resume to pitch. I presume he's doing this with the full knowledge of the AD. Hell, maybe it is Mike Williams' way of trying to move him along without paying a buyout.


    As nobody (NOBODY) has a clue about the actual contract negotiations, all comments are "irrelevant"
    (gawd, that was polite :woohoo).
    To what extent are the negotiations hung up on raising assistants' compensation? hmmm
    NOISE is not KNOWLEDGE.
    Bobodeluxe
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    Memorial has been half empty since it reopened.

    Few care about Cal Football.

    This hate fest will surely attract fans.

    I will once again purchase my row of tickets on the first day they are available.

    Maybe, just maybe, I will win a door prize! Finally!

    :gobears:
    joe amos yaks
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    We win.
    SonOfCalVa
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    Bobodeluxe;842609742 said:

    Memorial has been half empty since it reopened.

    Few care about Cal Football.

    This hate fest will surely attract fans.

    I will once again purchase my row of tickets on the first day they are available.

    Maybe, just maybe, I will win a door prize! Finally!

    :gobears:


    Considering that the first game in the new CMS was an abominable loss to Nevada, and it went downhill from there ...
    But now progress is slowly being made ... enjoy the games, root for our STUDENT-athletes, win or lose ...
    It's typical Cal football, no get rich quick cheating or gimmicks.
    sycasey
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    SonOfCalVa;842609736 said:

    To whatever extent Goff is "great", he was developed by this staff, starting from scratch.
    The Goff of today was a work in progress, and still is.
    Backups have been undergoing development also. They aren't chopped liver.


    I'm saying that Goff is likely a special talent, and even with development it's not likely we'll find another QB to match.

    Sort of like how Tedford never found anyone as good as Aaron Rodgers again. Did he help to coach up Rodgers? Yes, he did. But Rodgers was also special. I think you have to expect less production out of the QB position after Goff leaves, even if our coaching and development of the younger guys has been top-notch.
    SonOfCalVa
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    sycasey;842609780 said:

    I'm saying that Goff is likely a special talent, and even with development it's not likely we'll find another QB to match.

    Sort of like how Tedford never found anyone as good as Aaron Rodgers again. Did he help to coach up Rodgers? Yes, he did. But Rodgers was also special. I think you have to expect less production out of the QB position after Goff leaves, even if our coaching and development of the younger guys has been top-notch.


    True that a RS soph or RS frosh or true frosh likely will be (much) less than a 3 year starter who kept improving, achieving a very high level.
    However, four returning starters on OL plus experienced replacements (assuming abandonment of VS) will be a huge change for both pass pro and running, and we have a group of runners who have stepped up.

    Ah, who knows ... next year, Cal can proceed to the next level or the wheels could come off (again).
    Cal football ... same old, same old.
    SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA
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    beelzebear;842609180 said:

    They also had the worst defense in the country, which they carried on to Cal...for 4 years running of horrible defense (1 at LaTech, 3 at Cal).


    WTF does that have to do with Jared Goff. I was responding to a post about Cal losing Goff next year. Enable hybrid mode.
    sycasey
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    SonOfCalVa;842609916 said:


    Ah, who knows ... next year, Cal can proceed to the next level or the wheels could come off (again).
    Cal football ... same old, same old.


    I see little reason to expect "next level" improvement next season. If it happens I will happily eat crow.

    Best we can expect is to roughly match this year's record, and yes I would even be impressed if that happens.
    59bear
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    Whoever is coaching USC.
    1979bear
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    If Sonny wins 7 regular season games next year with his own players and no Goff, I will want him here for many years, irrespective of what went on earlier this week. Right now, he is a winner. If he wins next year, admit it you won't care about 2013 or anything except the present.

    And more money for assistants? Sonny's guys do deserve that. I don't think he should get a raise unless he succeeds a bit next year, but the assistant salary info was not okay. It has to make a difference as to who Sonny can attract to help him.

    GO BEARS AND WIN YOUR BOWL GAME.
    oskidunker
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    Fire him now
    Tedhead94
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    heartofthebear;842608838 said:

    Love it!
    It's not Cal's fault they hired Dykes, they did so because Tedford left such a mess.


    Dykes is the best we could afford since Tedford left such a mess.
     
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