SonOfCalVa;842608996 said:

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Which resulted in how many championships when they played college football for Cal?

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Zero.

Hey! That's the same chance as us beating one of our 3 in-state rivals under Dykes.

tim94501;842608748 said:

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Please just entertain me with why you are standing behind him at this point? He's obviously looking for a way out.

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Dude has half the team transferred yet? Let me know what you hear from all your connections on the team when you goto the lusty lady next time

MiZery;842610560 said:

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Dude has half the team transferred yet? Let me know what you hear from all your connections on the team when you goto the lusty lady next time

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I see what you did there. Married man now. Although thise days were fun.

MiZery;842610560 said:

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Dude has half the team transferred yet? Let me know what you hear from all your connections on the team when you goto the lusty lady next time

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great straw man!

Tedhead94;842610524 said:

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Dykes is the best we could afford since Tedford left such a mess.

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You really believe that?

tim94501;842608748 said:

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Please just entertain me with why you are standing behind him at this point? He's obviously looking for a way out.

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Apparently the big sticking point was a pay raise for his assistants.. if so.. you have to admire him for looking out for his staff..

MiZery;842611145 said:

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Apparently the big sticking point was a pay raise for his assistants.. if so.. you have to admire him for looking out for his staff..

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I completely agree with you on this. Sonny is looking out for his guys, and being a leader.

beeasyed;842610944 said:

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great straw man!

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You use that word alot

MiZery;842611145 said:

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Apparently the big sticking point was a pay raise for his assistants.. if so.. you have to admire him for looking out for his staff..

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Yeah right. What is your source on that one? That is not what the Cal sources are saying. Geez you will shamelessly turn the guy negotiating in his own self interest into a selfless act.

Personally I heard the sticking point was that Sonny wanted Cal to donate money to orphans, but Williams was insisting on harvesting their organs for cash instead. Thank god for Sonny.

OaktownBear;842611216 said:

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Yeah right. What is your source on that one? That is not what the Cal sources are saying. Geez you will shamelessly turn the guy negotiating in his own self interest into a selfless act.

Personally I heard the sticking point was that Sonny wanted Cal to donate money to orphans, but Williams was insisting on harvesting their organs for cash instead. Thank god for Sonny.

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What are the Cal sources saying?

tim94501;842608748 said:

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Please just entertain me with why you are standing behind him at this point? He's obviously looking for a way out.

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I want to ask you point blank:

Why are you so down on him?

Dark Reverie;842611305 said:

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I want to ask you point blank:

Why are you so down on him?

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maybe his record? I dunno?

HaasBear04;842611315 said:

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maybe his record? I dunno?

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No maybe about it. Dykes is .362 over 3 years, .259 in conference.

Okay he shored up academics and he's a nice guy...but the defining criteria is still W/L record and he's terrible.

Conpared to the aupposedly idiotic coach across the bay, i am not so sure stanford wants dykes

Dark Reverie;842611305 said:

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I want to ask you point blank:

Why are you so down on him?

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You're a solid guy but i have to ask if you had a coach went 1-11 in a season how would you feel about him shopping himself around? I understand UT is a better football program than us despite that our top 5 nfl players probably kills anybody.

OaktownBear;842611216 said:

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Yeah right. What is your source on that one? That is not what the Cal sources are saying. Geez you will shamelessly turn the guy negotiating in his own self interest into a selfless act.

Personally I heard the sticking point was that Sonny wanted Cal to donate money to orphans, but Williams was insisting on harvesting their organs for cash instead. Thank god for Sonny.

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Conor latourneau

tim94501;842611471 said:

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You're a solid guy but i have to ask if you had a coach went 1-11 in a season how would you feel about him shopping himself around? I understand UT is a better football program than us despite that our top 5 nfl players probably kills anybody.

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I thought Dark Reverie was a she. Am I wrong?

bigcocoon007;842609056 said:

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04 was a 2 loss team
05 was 8 win team with major QB issues
06 was a 10-win team
07 was considered a horrible year and the beginning of the end yet we still finish with 7 wins and a bowl vivtory
08 we win 9 games and also beat the U

Desean, Marshawn, etc. Won quite a few games here. If you rate coaches on conference championships, then fire Dykes.

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Those were AMAZING players in HS, college and the NFL. Most coaches can win championships with players like that. Some of those players came because we were a team on the upswing in 2003 and 2004. Some could not come here now with our current academic restrictions (a mistake IMO). Right now we appear to be headed in the right direction (look at Snyder's first 3 years). I think next year will tell us if we continue to improve and if the system is effective (a new QB is effective). Thus, all things considered id rather keep Sonny another couple years and find out if the improvement will continue and the system can function well with a new QB (a HUGE benefit in college and the major issue with Tedford's huge offensive play book). I would like to keep Sonny long enough to see if he can continue the improvement but I don't want to pay him as if that improvement is a given. I would keep his base salary, maybe increase his incentives.

HaasBear04;842611315 said:

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maybe his record? I dunno?

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beelzebear;842611318 said:

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No maybe about it. Dykes is .362 over 3 years, .259 in conference.

Okay he shored up academics and he's a nice guy...but the defining criteria is still W/L record and he's terrible.

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tim94501;842611471 said:

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You're a solid guy but i have to ask if you had a coach went 1-11 in a season how would you feel about him shopping himself around? I understand UT is a better football program than us despite that our top 5 nfl players probably kills anybody.

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First and foremost, this has nothing to do with Tennessee being a better program than California. It doesn't even have anything to do with Tennessee at all.

Secondly, all three of you gentlemen seem to still be shell shocked by the 1-11 season. I understand. When your team wins one game all year, it can be hard to get over. It's a traumatic experience. But in my opinion, I think Dykes deserves a mulligan for that year. I say that because look at the last two seasons. The Bears go from one win to five wins, and then from five wins to seven. You might disagree, but that is improvement, regardless of which way you slice it or try to spin it. Yes, I understand that losing to all of your California rivals and Oregon each time is frowned upon, but when you look at the entire body of work as a whole, you cannot dispute the fact that there has been improvement.

(1) The offense is a high-powered offense that can score a lot of points.

(2) The defense is much, much better. Still not where it needs to be, but they are better.

(3) Beat Texas for the first time in school history. In Austin. That's a huge road win. No denying this.

(4) Beat Washington in Seattle for the first time since 2005. That's no small feat. That's two very important road games.

(5) Bowl eligible for the first time since 2011.

(6) Will have a winning season for the first time since 2011.


Those are some positives that I would suggest to you are incontrovertible. I understand the negatives: no wins over the California rivals and Oregon (0-12), finishing in the bottom half of the Pac-12 North each of his three years.

I would also suggest to you that the building of a program takes time, and that the jury is still out on his ability to bring California off of the deck so to speak. Yes, the ultimate goal is the College Football Playoff and/or Rose Bowl, but think about it, if you go from 1-11 to 7-5 in three seasons, I'd be ecstatic, not because of 7-5, but because if he can do that, there's no telling what he can do as the years progress.

I also understand that he could fail and there could be a drop-off. But we don't know if that will happen. That's the difficult thing about sports; predicting the future. We can't do it. All we can do is sit and watch.

That's why I urge you gentlemen and others who share your views to not give him the Cuonzo Martin treatment. (I would define this term as "not appreciating a coach efforts in spite of his solid body of work and his excellent reputation and grasping for straws to find every excuse in the book to get rid of him.) Sonny Dykes is a solid coach. Not a great coach, but very solid. He has coached some decent to good teams everywhere he has been. The only thing that I would suggest he do is recruit better defensive players and stress defensive fundamentals. But don't take my word for it; I'm not a coach, nor am I an expert.

Let me say to those of you who have already fired Dykes in your minds that these things take time to build. He deserves an opportunity to build this program, and he deserves time to make it happen. And I'm not talking three years or four years. I'm talking as much time as he needs. I know it's not a popular sentiment nowadays in this "I want it NOW" culture, but given that he has shown improvement in each of the three years he has been in Berkeley, he deserves it. Will he be the one to take the Golden Bears to the Rose Bowl or a national title? I don't know, but I think he is worth giving a shot.

MiZery;842611492 said:

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Conor latourneau

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1. Where did he say that?
2. Why do you rely on him now when you've been yelling at people that repeat his other reports that they are dealing in internet rumors.
3. Faraudo has reported that Cal sources have told him twice this week that they are waiting for Sonny to respond to their offer. Seems that if the issue were just some money for the assistants he would respond and come to the table and talk instead of not responding and talking to others.

4. White said that Sonny has to understand Cal is not going to lock itself into a long term, high priced commitment when it comes to guaranteed commitment and lengthy extension

Dark Reverie;842611541 said:

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First and foremost, this has nothing to do with Tennessee being a better program than California. It doesn't even have anything to do with Tennessee at all.

Secondly, all three of you gentlemen seem to still be shell shocked by the 1-11 season. I understand. When your team wins one game all year, it can be hard to get over. It's a traumatic experience. But in my opinion, I think Dykes deserves a mulligan for that year. I say that because look at the last two seasons. The Bears go from one win to five wins, and then from five wins to seven. You might disagree, but that is improvement, regardless of which way you slice it or try to spin it. Yes, I understand that losing to all of your California rivals and Oregon each time is frowned upon, but when you look at the entire body of work as a whole, you cannot dispute the fact that there has been improvement.

(1) The offense is a high-powered offense that can score a lot of points.

(2) The defense is much, much better. Still not where it needs to be, but they are better.

(3) Beat Texas for the first time in school history. In Austin. That's a huge road win. No denying this.

(4) Beat Washington in Seattle for the first time since 2005. That's no small feat. That's two very important road games.

(5) Bowl eligible for the first time since 2011.

(6) Will have a winning season for the first time since 2011.


Those are some positives that I would suggest to you are incontrovertible. I understand the negatives: no wins over the California rivals and Oregon (0-12), finishing in the bottom half of the Pac-12 North each of his three years.

I would also suggest to you that the building of a program takes time, and that the jury is still out on his ability to bring California off of the deck so to speak. Yes, the ultimate goal is the College Football Playoff and/or Rose Bowl, but think about it, if you go from 1-11 to 7-5 in three seasons, I'd be ecstatic, not because of 7-5, but because if he can do that, there's no telling what he can do as the years progress.

I also understand that he could fail and there could be a drop-off. But we don't know if that will happen. That's the difficult thing about sports; predicting the future. We can't do it. All we can do is sit and watch.

That's why I urge you gentlemen and others who share your views to not give him the Cuonzo Martin treatment. (I would define this term as "not appreciating a coach efforts in spite of his solid body of work and his excellent reputation and grasping for straws to find every excuse in the book to get rid of him.) Sonny Dykes is a solid coach. Not a great coach, but very solid. He has coached some decent to good teams everywhere he has been. The only thing that I would suggest he do is recruit better defensive players and stress defensive fundamentals. But don't take my word for it; I'm not a coach, nor am I an expert.

Let me say to those of you who have already fired Dykes in your minds that these things take time to build. He deserves an opportunity to build this program, and he deserves time to make it happen. And I'm not talking three years or four years. I'm talking as much time as he needs. I know it's not a popular sentiment nowadays in this "I want it NOW" culture, but given that he has shown improvement in each of the three years he has been in Berkeley, he deserves it. Will he be the one to take the Golden Bears to the Rose Bowl or a national title? I don't know, but I think he is worth giving a shot.

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Nice post, Dark Reverie!

OaktownBear;842611560 said:

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1. Where did he say that?
2. Why do you rely on him now when you've been yelling at people that repeat his other reports that they are dealing in internet rumors.
3. Faraudo has reported that Cal sources have told him twice this week that they are waiting for Sonny to respond to their offer. Seems that if the issue were just some money for the assistants he would respond and come to the table and talk instead of not responding and talking to others.

4. White said that Sonny has to understand Cal is not going to lock itself into a long term, high priced commitment when it comes to guaranteed commitment and lengthy extension

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White said ... a big donor is the voice of the AD ... wtf ...
dump Williams, bring on the anesthesiologist with the nitrous oxide.
AD not talking; HC not talking ...

jyamada;842611587 said:

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Nice post, Dark Reverie!

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+1 ... a voice of reason stands out on BI

SonOfCalVa;842611590 said:

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+1 ... a voice of reason stands out on BI

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I agree. He should be banned.

Dark Reverie;842611541 said:

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Secondly, all three of you gentlemen seem to still be shell shocked by the 1-11 season. I understand. When your team wins one game all year, it can be hard to get over. It's a traumatic experience. But in my opinion, I think Dykes deserves a mulligan for that year. I say that because look at the last two seasons. The Bears go from one win to five wins, and then from five wins to seven. You might disagree, but that is improvement, regardless of which way you slice it or try to spin it. Yes, I understand that losing to all of your California rivals and Oregon each time is frowned upon, but when you look at the entire body of work as a whole, you cannot dispute the fact that there has been improvement.

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Reasonable people could argue Dykes deserves a mulligan for the mess Tedford caused, but not for the ones Dykes created without Tedford's help. Hiring of Andy Buh was a catastrophe and exposed Dykes as an ammateur Head Coach not ready to head a major program in one of the toughest P5 conferences. A parade of other assistant coaches he had to replace also lend support to the notion Dykes isn't ready for prime time.

Quote:

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Let me say to those of you who have already fired Dykes in your minds that these things take time to build. He deserves an opportunity to build this program, and he deserves time to make it happen. And I'm not talking three years or four years. I'm talking as much time as he needs. I know it's not a popular sentiment nowadays in this "I want it NOW" culture, but given that he has shown improvement in each of the three years he has been in Berkeley, he deserves it. Will he be the one to take the Golden Bears to the Rose Bowl or a national title? I don't know, but I think he is worth giving a shot.

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Your assertion Dykes should be give as much time as he needs is only understandable if viewed from the perspective of non-Cal fan. You accuse Dykes critics as "want it NOW culture," and your remedy is to give him not merely 3 or 4 years, but "as much time as needed." So what is that blank check? 5 years? 7 years? How about 10 years of losing football and a hall of fame member of the Pac-2 cellar. I'll admit that might be OK with non-Cal fans, but most Golden Bear fans have more expectation and common sense than that.

Dark Reverie;842611541 said:

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First and foremost, this has nothing to do with Tennessee being a better program than California. It doesn't even have anything to do with Tennessee at all.

Secondly, all three of you gentlemen seem to still be shell shocked by the 1-11 season. I understand. When your team wins one game all year, it can be hard to get over. It's a traumatic experience. But in my opinion, I think Dykes deserves a mulligan for that year. I say that because look at the last two seasons. The Bears go from one win to five wins, and then from five wins to seven. You might disagree, but that is improvement, regardless of which way you slice it or try to spin it. Yes, I understand that losing to all of your California rivals and Oregon each time is frowned upon, but when you look at the entire body of work as a whole, you cannot dispute the fact that there has been improvement.

(1) The offense is a high-powered offense that can score a lot of points.

(2) The defense is much, much better. Still not where it needs to be, but they are better.

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I never made any comparisons to UT FB. Sorry no mulligans because of the DC he hired was bad, very bad. Hiring a decent DC could have meant 2 more wins IMO, and that's not unreasonable. Also Dykes purged hard and didn't seem to regret it. You can't avoid some of it, but encouraging it...bad move. The biggest issue however was Dykes seemed to throw in the towel after a few games. He simply wasn't interested, didn't show any fight. Cal might not be good but one of its motto is: The Bear will not quit, the Bear will not die. Dykes basically rolled over.

1) The high powered offense stalled against good teams with defense: see Utah, UCLA, USC, Oregon and Stanford.

2) The defense statistically finished 110/127. That's after the two previous seasons at or near the bottom and 1 year at the bottom at LaTech. The defense is not much, much better. Dykes doesn't seem to care about defense and that might be okay in the WAC but it doesn't cut in the Pac. Have to have defense.

Can't speak for tim but many of us who are "down on him" 1) didn't want him in the first place; 2) see 2015 as the high water mark in his tenure with significant drop-off next year and thereafter.

59bear;842611755 said:

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Can't speak for tim but many of us who are "down on him" 1) didn't want him in the first place; 2) see 2015 as the high water mark in his tenure with significant drop-off next year and thereafter.

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For those who want Dykes gone, #1 pretty much sums it up. Not wanting him was definitely reinforced by that horrible 2013 season. Totally understandable. #2 is speculative. The Bears could just as easily win 7 or 8 games next year even without Goff. I agree with Dark Reverie, give the guy a chance to build his program. Unless the Dykes opponents have a realistic miracle plan in your pocket, that is.

I agree, Dykes deserves year four. That's fair and he should get the chance...just not an extension/more pay to do so. The thing is, running around to Mizzou and other places did not endear him more given his record. It signals he wants out and given his record, I'm inclined to let him go.

59bear;842611755 said:

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Can't speak for tim but many of us who are "down on him" 1) didn't want him in the first place;
2) see 2015 as the high water mark in his tenure with significant drop-off next year and thereafter.

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Could you enlighten me as to why?

Dark Reverie;842611541 said:

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And I'm not talking three years or four years. I'm talking as much time as he needs.

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Your argument was entirely reasonable until this statement. No one deserves "as much time as he needs." Sometimes a guy just isn't that good and doesn't deserve more time. Reasonable people can disagree on whether or not Dykes has had enough time to date, but this last statement of yours I think is a dangerous mentality.

I have said this before (and I do not expect you to reply and engage the argument because you have not done so in the past), but you are looking at this from the Tennessee perspective. I agree, Tennessee has had much too quick a hook with coaches in recent years. Your fan base needs more patience -- that is the culture change that is needed in Knoxville.

Cal has the opposite problem. Our program history shows that we will become apathetic and let a clearly bad coach stick around for 1 or 2 seasons too long, which then creates a bigger mess for the next guy to clean up. It keeps us on a cycle of mediocrity (or worse). Look at some of the guys we have had. Did Tom Holmoe deserve "as much time as he needs"? No, he was obviously terrible. Keith Gilbertson? Trickier case there because he does seem to be a pretty good assistant coach, but both of his stints as head coaches (at Cal and at Washington) demonstrate that he stinks as a head coach. He did not deserve any more time. The culture change that is needed at Cal is to expect more out of our program. This is not JUST about coaches (the administration could put in more effort to support players once they arrive at Cal), but that's part of it.

So at what point can someone reasonably say that Sonny Dykes is not the guy to lead us where we want to go? "As much time as he needs" is not a good answer to that question.

I don't think the system works well against quality athletes and most contenders in the PAC12 are stocked with quality athletes.

Sonny may have deserved next year before actively pursuing other jobs. Now he needs to go. Every single recruit will be told that Sonny will leave Cal if given half a chance. How many recruits that have other options will come to Cal when told that by every other coach? ZERO! I'm positive Sonny weighed this fact before undertaking his 'tour'. Worse case is he's fired and gets paid for the last two years of his contract to go look for another job. I actually think the worse case is Cal weenies out and doesn't fire him and he (and us) look like crap next year because every kid on this team knows Sonny wants out.

I'd bet that a good number of verbals we have are committed to the school itself, as much, if not more than that the HC or staff...

If the contract is not signed by our bowl game, the "excitement" might continue into the New Year, as more bowl games finish, and contractual dates impact terms.

He's gone from 1-11 to 5-7 to 7-5 and that 6 game improvement over two years is (somehow) not enough for a majority of the fanbase. That's why he's looked at other options.