68great;842612651 said:
Should be some place between 5-7. We beat UW, WSU, OSU, ASU and gave Utah a close fight. Plus we were better then Colorado and probably UA.
There are more recruits these days who savvy people advising them these days, so overall, yeah, the kids deserve more credit. But if they aren't savvy enough to figure that out, the opposing coaches will let them know.OaktownBear;842612648 said:
Your argument also, by the way, is a good argument against extending coaches simply for the sake of recruiting. I've argued for a long time that with how frequently coaches leave or get fired well before the end of their contract, I just don't buy the concept that not extending a coach for four or five years out leads recruits to question whether he will be with a team. I've been countered with the concept that kids don't look at the issue that closely, but I don't think that gives kids enough credit.
I have to say, though, there is a difference between acknowledging that coaches move around all the time, and a coach giving the impression that he wants out and will leave the first chance he gets. Cal/Sonny do need to do something to counteract that impression at this point.
OaktownBear;842612648 said:
I have to say, though, there is a difference between acknowledging that coaches move around all the time, and a coach giving the impression that he wants out and will leave the first chance he gets. Cal/Sonny do need to do something to counteract that impression at this point.
tequila4kapp;842612705 said:
On Cal's side, why let the offer hang out there instead of retracting it or demanding an answer by a date certain?
68great;842612654 said:
BTW where can I pick up my "Dykes Defenders" Pin.
I heard that it looks like a Capitan America shied only blue and gold with a bright Gold "California Bear Flag" Bear where the Star would be.
Of course the name Dykes Defenders might be misinterpreted in San Francisco....Not that there is anything wrong with that.
kaplanfx;842612640 said:
Your argument was that opposing coaches could sell against Cal by pointing out the instability at head coach. My comment was responding only to that, not to justify Sonny or his agent's alleged behavior.
-kap
Big C_Cal;842612647 said:
Since he apparently likes using the media, it's about time he holds a Sonny+Cal love-in, saying how he owed it to his family to look around, but, the more he looked, the more he realized that Cal is the greatest place on earth and he looks forward to being here forever (wife and daughters also there, beaming). He should get all Joe Kapp and be passing out yellow roses to everybody in attendance. Make it like a party. One of the happiest days of his life.
I was totally understanding about last week, but to not end very soon doesn't help anybody (except for schools competing for our recruiting targets).
Heck, I like my job, but there are plenty of days I don't feel fully appreciated or even just plain don't feel like coming to work. Those are the days I make sure I put on my biggest smile. Let's see yours, Sonny Dykes. This week. And don't forget to say, "Go Bears!"
Big C_Cal;842612647 said:
Since he apparently likes using the media, it's about time he holds a Sonny+Cal love-in, saying how he owed it to his family to look around, but, the more he looked, the more he realized that Cal is the greatest place on earth and he looks forward to being here forever (wife and daughters also there, beaming). He should get all Joe Kapp and be passing out yellow roses to everybody in attendance. Make it like a party. One of the happiest days of his life.
oskimama;842612826 said:
At this point, just who would believe him if he took this approach? Nobody.
Oski87;842612965 said:
SC has had 4 coaches in three years. Helton twice. Not sure that is a good example.
Chip Kelly told Armstead that it would be possible that we would be gone the following year. So Armstead went to Oregon because he was honest with him.
I think hearing from the man in your living room who tells you all of the rest of the crap is internet made up BS is a lot more compelling than someone on the internet who is projecting what they think they know.
As far as we know, the whole thing was blown out of proportion by a the Missouri athletic department who told their guys that Dykes was interviewing and spread it to the intern at KNBR - who said Dykes had left mentally. Did Dykes tell anyone that? Or was it just idle speculation on a bunch of guys from Missouri who were trying to build a case to get someone to come in, who was not just an internal hire (DC promoted to Coach)?
I am sure that Dykes is drawing this out to get the best deal he can. I highly doubt that this does anything to anyones recruiting. In fact, it could be parlayed into making Dykes a higher profile coach.
You guys are all looking at this way too closely. No one outside of this message board cares about any of this - especially 17 and 18 year old kids who are just trying to go to college.
sycasey;842612769 said:
What would that accomplish?
tequila4kapp;842612970 said:
Brings some clarity to the situation, applies pressure to Dykes, changes the dynamic from Cal passively accepting whatever Dykes decides to taking control of its own destiny, etc. The basics.
sycasey;842612977 said:
The problem with doing that is that it makes the current coach look bad. I mean, I get it . . . he's already making himself look bad. But if Cal pulls the offer then now he's been undermined even more. Cal doesn't want Sonny Dykes to look bad. They either want him to take the extension and keep on recruiting or sign with someone else if he gets a better offer (so they wouldn't have to pay his buyout). Pulling the offer helps neither of those outcomes.
So essentially, doing nothing IS Cal taking control of its own destiny. Dykes wants to apply pressure to get a better offer. Cal holding steady to the same position demonstrates that they are not responding to that pressure. "Clarity to the situation" seems like it's mostly just about making people feel better in the moment; it doesn't actually mean anything, and honestly it only has much emotional effect within our little Cal-fan bubble. From the outside no one really cares all that much.
tequila4kapp;842612993 said:
Dyke's would be undermined relative to keeping his Cal job, but not relative to getting another HC job.
tequila4kapp;842612970 said:
Brings some clarity to the situation, applies pressure to Dykes, changes the dynamic from Cal passively accepting whatever Dykes decides to taking control of its own destiny, etc. The basics.
68great;842613020 said:
I heard an interesting rumor yesterday from someone who is a semi-insider (not an insider but knows someone who is an insder).
Apparently there was the same split among big-donors that there is here on BI. (Sonny's doing a competent job and on a winning trajectory vs. Cal could do better.) the first group wanted to give him a decent extension and raise. The second wants no exension and no raise.
Williams compromised in a small raise and short extension.
Sonny was upset.
Williams told Sonny to shop himself around and if he got a better offer to come back to Williams to discuss.
IMO this puts a different light on what Sonny was doing in interviewing. The interviews were initiated by Williams not Sonny who looks like he wanted to stay at Cal. Williams is playing hardball and taking control of the situation.
68great;842613020 said:
I heard an interesting rumor yesterday from someone who is a semi-insider (not an insider but knows someone who is an insder).
Apparently there was the same split among big-donors that there is here on BI. (Sonny's doing a competent job and on a winning trajectory vs. Cal could do better.) the first group wanted to give him a decent extension and raise. The second wants no exension and no raise.
Williams compromised in a small raise and short extension.
Sonny was upset.
Williams told Sonny to shop himself around and if he got a better offer to come back to Williams to discuss.
IMO this puts a different light on what Sonny was doing in interviewing. The interviews were initiated by Williams not Sonny who looks like he wanted to stay at Cal. Williams is playing hardball and taking control of the situation.
68great;842613020 said:
I heard an interesting rumor yesterday from someone who is a semi-insider (not an insider but knows someone who is an insder).
Apparently there was the same split among big-donors that there is here on BI. (Sonny's doing a competent job and on a winning trajectory vs. Cal could do better.) the first group wanted to give him a decent extension and raise. The second wants no exension and no raise.
Williams compromised in a small raise and short extension.
Sonny was upset.
Williams told Sonny to shop himself around and if he got a better offer to come back to Williams to discuss.
IMO this puts a different light on what Sonny was doing in interviewing. The interviews were initiated by Williams not Sonny who looks like he wanted to stay at Cal. Williams is playing hardball and taking control of the situation.
68great;842613020 said:
I heard an interesting rumor yesterday from someone who is a semi-insider (not an insider but knows someone who is an insder).
Apparently there was the same split among big-donors that there is here on BI. (Sonny's doing a competent job and on a winning trajectory vs. Cal could do better.) the first group wanted to give him a decent extension and raise. The second wants no exension and no raise.
Williams compromised in a small raise and short extension.
Sonny was upset.
Williams told Sonny to shop himself around and if he got a better offer to come back to Williams to discuss.
IMO this puts a different light on what Sonny was doing in interviewing. The interviews were initiated by Williams not Sonny who looks like he wanted to stay at Cal. Williams is playing hardball and taking control of the situation.
Unit2Sucks;842613065 said:
I highly doubt Williams told Sonny to chase offers in a highly public manner and that would make everyone question his commitment to Cal. There is a way to do a market check without tarnishing your image and your employer's image - people do it all the time. The fact that Sonny still hasn't made any public statements about this mess is troubling. I'm not saying that the Group A/B scenario isn't accurate, but that this could not have been the desired outcome.
Unit2Sucks;842613065 said:
I highly doubt Williams told Sonny to chase offers in a highly public manner and that would make everyone question his commitment to Cal. There is a way to do a market check without tarnishing your image and your employer's image - people do it all the time. The fact that Sonny still hasn't made any public statements about this mess is troubling. I'm not saying that the Group A/B scenario isn't accurate, but that this could not have been the desired outcome.
oski003;842613092 said:
It is important to note that the source of the publicity is a young journalist with ties to the University of Missouri.
OaktownBear;842613105 said:
Given that Missouri is no longer available and therefore no leverage in the extension negotiation, if Dykes never talked to them, he should just say that. At some point not denying a rumor that is potentially damaging to your team says a lot.
beelzebear;842613063 said:
Here's what it comes down to:
A) some want to give Dykes an extension/raise for improving
B) while others only want to give an extension/raise for winning
Along the same lines is the 1-11 season because some (group A) think it was unavoidable while others (group B) think it wasn't.
I'm in the latter B group because I think the automatic raise while still under contract is part of the crazy CEO compensation culture in this country, i.e., massive rewards for not really doing anything, expected rather than earned. I have no problem making things incentive based, like $xxx for conference championship, $xxx for academics, etc.
I do have a problem with mediocrity demanding an extension/raise, and Dykes' overall record at Cal is below mediocre. Sorry, no raise for .362.
If you give SD the first season mulligan, his record is .500, which I'd call average/mediocre. Do does SD deserve a raise and extension for going .500 in two seasons with an *? I don't think so because the back end of that is still no wins against CA schools + UO, i.e., no wins against good teams. In that case, let the contract ride out. If he improves, great give him the extension and raise. If he doesn't, let the contract expire. But absolutely no extension and raise for doing your job and average/mediocre results. Paying that much for potential is bullsh*t. Pay them for what they've accomplished.
* = 1-11 season as a notation.
OaktownBear;842613086 said:
But the bottom line is none of that should be public. That is the problem. If people are upset because he interviewed, I think that is silly. But I don't think that is the case for most. People are upset with how it went down.
OaktownBear;842613086 said:
But the bottom line is none of that should be public. That is the problem. If people are upset because he interviewed, I think that is silly. But I don't think that is the case for most. People are upset with how it went down.
