OT New Star Wars movie (no spoilers please)

19,116 Views | 208 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by beelzebear
HaloBear
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okaydo;842618500 said:

But he has produced the last two MI films.


Is the suggestion that his involvement is the same on an artistic level?

He directed MI3, which isn't nearly as good as the last two.

On the other hand, he directed what I now objectively consider to be the best of the Star Wars films.
okaydo
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HaloBear;842618507 said:

Is the suggestion that his involvement is the same on an artistic level?

He directed MI3, which isn't nearly as good as the last two.

On the other hand, he directed what I now objectively consider to be the best of the Star Wars films.


Without JJ's involvement, I'd bet the last two MI films wouldn't be as good as they were.

As producer, he helps select the director and helps oversee casting and the storyline.

After JJ successfully rebooted MI in the aftermath of a disastrous couch-jumping part of Tom Cruise's career, Cruise made sure to keep him a part of the MI franchise on a producing scale.

JJ is great at attracting wildly talented people to work with/under him. He's able to package writers, directors, actors together.

He's like Judd Apatow. Apatow produced but didn't direct (Adam McKay's) Anchorman or (Ben Stiller's) The Cable Guy or (Greg Mattola's) Super Bad, but he's able to bring all this talent together.

So Abrams wasn't directly involved in a day-to-day level on the new MI, but he was a key part in its success.

If Tom Cruise had done what he did after the first two MIs, and started all over from scratch with brand-new people, you wouldn't have gotten Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation.

He's sort of the Sonny Dykes to Christopher McQuarrie's Tony Franklin.



I should also note that JJ and his producing partner, Bryan Burk, are both listed as producers on MI: Rogue Nation and Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

See the right side on both these pages:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission:_Impossible_%E2%80%93_Rogue_Nation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens
bearsandgiants
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Producers just make sure everyone has coffee and a place to go potty.
okaydo
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Universal passed on making the original Star Wars movie, so 20th Century Fox offered George Lucas $50,000 to direct it, $50,000 to produce it and $50,000 to write it.

This is a great interview with Lucas' then-attorney.

http://deadline.com/2015/12/star-wars-franchise-george-lucas-historic-rights-deal-tom-pollock-1201669419/
ducky23
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Wow! Abrams is a genius! Where did he come up with all those amazing ideas for that completely original story of his.
okaydo
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ducky23;842618745 said:

Wow! Abrams is a genius! Where did he come up with all those amazing ideas for that completely original story of his.


Wow! Lucas is a genius! Where did he come up with all those amazing ideas for that completely original story of his.

[video=youtube;-gUKYBs6T8c][/video]
HaloBear
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ducky23;842618745 said:

Wow! Abrams is a genius! Where did he come up with all those amazing ideas for that completely original story of his.


Huh?

His execution of if the story, genesis notwithstanding, is better done than any of the other Star Wars films. The casting was perfect. No cringe worthy dialogue. Outstanding set pieces and imagery. It's objectively the beat Star Wars film of them all, though ESB holds a special place in my heart.

The best thing that could have happened to Star Wars was to have it taken away from Lucas. He had a great story to tell in the prequels and he completely crapped the bed. In tried to watch Episode I with my daughter a couple of months ago. It's horrendously bad. Jar Jar Binks isn't even close to the worst thing about it.
MiZery
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I'm a big fan of Abrams reboot of Star Trek as well..
ducky23
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HaloBear;842618785 said:

Huh?

His execution of if the story, genesis notwithstanding, is better done than any of the other Star Wars films. The casting was perfect. No cringe worthy dialogue. Outstanding set pieces and imagery. It's objectively the beat Star Wars film of them all, though ESB holds a special place in my heart.

The best thing that could have happened to Star Wars was to have it taken away from Lucas. He had a great story to tell in the prequels and he completely crapped the bed. In tried to watch Episode I with my daughter a couple of months ago. It's horrendously bad. Jar Jar Binks isn't even close to the worst thing about it.


Every single plot point was a copy/paste from ANH. Every single one. Every single new character was derived from a previous character.

there wasn't a single bad guy worth caring about. In fact the bad guys were such caricatures they became laughable.

The big scene where a major character dies. Did anyone care? Seriously. Anyone? I felt more emotion when qui-gon died.

The mythology was completely ruined now that no training is needed to master the force.

And apparently nothing has happened from ep 6 to ep 7.

We have basically gone from return of the Jedi back to ANH. No story progression whatsoever.

So yes. Everyone who wanted to feel nostalgic and rewatch anh and get a bunch of geeky references got their wish.

Anyone wanting an original story that would actually build upon and progress the Star Wars universe, not so much.
ducky23
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MiZery;842618792 said:

I'm a big fan of Abrams reboot of Star Trek as well..


Thank you. Great point. Star Trek was a "reboot". Or the same story told in a different way.

Episode 7 is not supposed to be a reboot. It's supposed to be a continuation of the story from episode 6.

Instead Abrams somehow managed to turn it into a reboot.
okaydo
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ducky23;842618806 said:

Thank you. Great point. Star Trek was a "reboot". Or the same story told in a different way.

Episode 7 is not supposed to be a reboot. It's supposed to be a continuation of the story from episode 6.

Instead Abrams somehow managed to turn it into a reboot.


This is a good article:
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/star-wars-the-force-awakens-creed-and-when-your-sequel-is-really-a-remake
calgldnbear
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So much for no spoilers ....
HaasBear04
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ducky23;842618796 said:



The mythology was completely ruined now that no training is needed to master the force.




I'm with you on this one. How in the hell does Kylo get clowned by two complete amateurs?
Strykur
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HaasBear04;842618841 said:

I'm with you on this one. How in the hell does Kylo get clowned by two complete amateurs?


I watched this while drunk but even then I knew this movie was half-baked from the start, it is crazy entertainment but does not make a lot of sense. If Episode VIII is another Star Trek Into Darkness, then this franchise will go to hell, see Star Trek Beyond trailer for how that's going.
ShareBear
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Strykur;842618883 said:

I watched this while drunk but even then I knew this movie was half-baked from the start, it is crazy entertainment but does not make a lot of sense. If Episode VIII is another Star Trek Into Darkness, then this franchise will go to hell, see Star Trek Beyond trailer for how that's going.



SPOILERS.

Agreed. I also think it's gonna take a while before we collectively know what we think about EpVII, and it will depend on how they build off of it. It looks like their plan will be to follow ANH/ESB storylines, and EpVIII will see Snoke/Ren rise to power, followed by EpIX and the Jedi, led by Rey(taught by Luke), uh returning.

I think if the next installment is more original, even if it holds to the ESB arc, then we will be more forgiving of EpVII basically being a tribute to ANH and a reintro to the world of the original trilogy that the prequels seriously failed to offer.
beelzebear
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LINK: How Ken Burns Would Tell the Story of Star Wars (video)
Dark Reverie
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I just saw the movie this afternoon with some buddies from church. My goodness.

All I can say is that the sooner you can get yourselves to a theatre to see it, the better. It is THAT good. Very well done.
Vandalus
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I absolutely loved it. If you can't enjoy that movie (as a fan of the franchise) then I don't know what to say. There were some minor things that I quibbled with but overall, simply awesome.
blungld
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Vandalus;842618980 said:

I absolutely loved it. If you can't enjoy that movie (as a fan of the franchise) then I don't know what to say. There were some minor things that I quibbled with but overall, simply awesome.




SPOLIERS AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!





I think it's great that so many fans are happy. I thought it was meh. I thought they forsake good story for trying to string together cameos by the old guard and introducing the new crew. I get why they thought they had to do this, but I think that all could have been integrated into something with a much more driving story.

Really, we have to destroy ANOTHER Death Star? I thought at the very least we would be facing another mechanism of destruction. There was so much re-iteration structurally of other Star Wars movies it was like a re-make. I wanted to see the same characters, seem visual elements, but with a JJ twist. There was no "mystery box" like LOST and Super 8 and other Abrams projects that create drama and tension. The big "spoilers" in this film were pretty tame and I saw them coming a mile away.

The story just sort of preceded A to B to C in s thing of coincidence, characters meeting each other conveniently. In an entire Universe the missing thing you need is always right next door. No, mystery or investigation. Just too much coincidence and easy story-telling.

More than anything, I wasn't buying the back story. We are within the lifetimes of Luke et al and yet from the time of their last destruction of the Empire they have become myths and evil has risen this far. That just makes no sense. Han, Luke, and Leah would all hold huge political power and be mega celebrities, there fading into lore (Solo even becoming a scalawag again) just doesn't compute. His son going to the dark side when he would have been surrounded by good people and good work? I'm not buying that either. It's a forced Oedipal story line to recapitulate Luke/Darth--but it is inorganic.

Almost everyone has the issue with Rey's immediate Jedi powers vs Luke having to train with Yoda for a long time just to move a rock. Kylo Ren just wasn't that scary, nor was his conflict believable. We didn't know enough about him to really care about his inner demons (theses stakes felt flat) And his ass almost getting kicked by a stormtrooper reject (Finn--and I hated seeing a non Jedi wielding a lightsaber) didn't make sense. Why did they install Voldemort as the new bad guy? And why does domination of the galaxy always come down to a few people just playing out their interpersonal Freudian dysfunction...I mean really there is massive battle where civilization is at stake, but for some reason the most important thing is whether Ren or some random desert girl when in a sword fight in the woods. That just relies too much on us "knowing" how Star Wars works rather than any story-driven reason.

I agree that the next two will be better, but this was only a degree better than the 1-3 episodes, not close to 4-6.
CalAlumnus13
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If you think this one is only a degree better than the prequels, then your mind has (kindly) revised your memory of them.

TFA isn't a perfect film, but it's far better than 1-3.
HaasBear04
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Blungld nailed it.

I wanted to see a sequel not episode IV the remix.
ducky23
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CalAlumnus13;842619048 said:

If you think this one is only a degree better than the prequels, then your mind has (kindly) revised your memory of them.

TFA isn't a perfect film, but it's far better than 1-3.


I give Lucas credit for at least trying to make an original story. Sure his execution was awful, but his story wasn't awful. And I agree with blungld that ep 7 isn't much better than the prequels.

The darth maul scene in ep 1 is way better than anything in ep 7.

And yes blungld nailed it. This movie was quintessential Abrams. No originality. No depth. Total pandering to the hardcore fans. Play it safe. Don't take risks. And watch the money flow.

If the prequels never existed, I doubt ep 7 gets the fanfare it's currently receiving. I think everyone is so f'ing scarred by the prequels that they are pissing in their pants watching any movie slightly resembling the originals.

But again. I'm not a fanboy. I love Star Wars because I thought ep 4 and 5 were amazing movies. But I don't worship Star Wars as a religion so I have a different perspective I guess.

I wanted to know what happened after return of the Jedi. I wanted to meet new characters who would have their own story arc and not just follow the same story arc of their predecessors. I wanted to see a movie that would expand the Star Wars universe (something the prequels at least tried to do). I wanted an original story. A real sequel. A real continuation of the story. An actual ep 7. Instead we got ep4(a).

If people are ecstatic with that, I'm happy for you all.
blungld
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it seems to me that over the last twenty years or so the public has become less critical and less sophisticated movie goers. While TV has had a Golden Age, film has dipped to formula blockbuster commercial vehicles. There are very few mass consumption movie with much creativity or artistic gravitas being made anymore. They cater to the LCD and are bombastic sensory overload with thin thin story. I am amazed at how people's standards have fallen and what they will walk out of a theater saying "that was pretty good." I really don't have an explanation for how complex TV and video game plot lines are getting with slick writing, and yet the public expects less from film.

People I think like the new Star Wars strictly from nostalgia, a few nice visuals, and a great ending that makes you forget how trite and devoid of character driven story the first two hours were.

I had to stop myself from laughing (not in a good way though I think JJ did this on purpose) at the number of hallway in the Death Star scenes there were. Just like 4-6 we get rebels moving about freely to exactly where they need to go, no security, not really being that sly, lots of shots of dumb storm troopers just walking right by dum de dum de dum then a reveal to rebel peeking head out from behind corner. There was like 5 of these shots. That's just taking nostalgia too far. Put a twist on it! Give us a surprise!

I think he thought he was being artistic by creating parallels, but they beat you over the head without subtlety. I get it: Rey is farm girl in desert like Luke, Luke is now bearded Obi Wan (right down to Rey in Luke's old costume and Luke in Obi Wan's robes), we have self sacrifice like Obi Wan, we have down the trench flight bombing runs, we have a new Yoda, a new R2D2, Kylo is Darth and the father/son issues continue, etc. There reaches a point where homage just becomes regurgitated trope without adding anything.

Who the heck is Po? Just this free agent good flyer with no real explanation. I mean he is clearly supposed to be new Han Solo, but he's just sort of not connected to anything and without explanation.

I can't believe that everyone is not booing Voldemort rip off. The Jar Jar theories were way more fun and interesting then anything that happened in this film.
txwharfrat
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Dark Reverie;842618976 said:

I just saw the movie this afternoon with some buddies from church. My goodness.

All I can say is that the sooner you can get yourselves to a theatre to see it, the better. It is THAT good. Very well done.


Saw it twice yesterday. It was that good. Probably second best all time right behind ESB. It may have even been better. What this franchise really needed was Lawrence Kasdan writing again ... And he delivered....
BearsWiin
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ducky23;842619059 said:

I give Lucas credit for at least trying to make an original story. Sure his execution was awful, but his story wasn't awful. And I agree with blungld that ep 7 isn't much better than the prequels.

The darth maul scene in ep 1 is way better than anything in ep 7.

And yes blungld nailed it. This movie was quintessential Abrams. No originality. No depth. Total pandering to the hardcore fans. Play it safe. Don't take risks. And watch the money flow.

If the prequels never existed, I doubt ep 7 gets the fanfare it's currently receiving. I think everyone is so f'ing scarred by the prequels that they are pissing in their pants watching any movie slightly resembling the originals.

But again. I'm not a fanboy. I love Star Wars because I thought ep 4 and 5 were amazing movies. But I don't worship Star Wars as a religion so I have a different perspective I guess.

I wanted to know what happened after return of the Jedi. I wanted to meet new characters who would have their own story arc and not just follow the same story arc of their predecessors. I wanted to see a movie that would expand the Star Wars universe (something the prequels at least tried to do). I wanted an original story. A real sequel. A real continuation of the story. An actual ep 7. Instead we got ep4(a).

If people are ecstatic with that, I'm happy for you all.


So you're saying that EpVII is the equivalent of a 7-5 season?
GB54
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LudwigsFountain;842617577 said:

Honest Question -- I'm and old fart and have never seen any of the Star War movies. This doesn't come up often, but when I mention this people can't believe it; they seem to think I'm an alien who's only just recently arrived and taken on human form.

My question: Are these worth watching if you don't have the nostalgia of seeing them when you were young going for you? If so, which ones and in what order? Are there any you should avoid?


Watch the first one which was a nifty piece of film making at the time and so good visually that you can ignore Lucas's hippie meets Joseph Campbell moony story telling and dialogue. If you like it you can try another but it doesn't get better
blungld
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GB54;842619167 said:

Joseph Campbell moony story telling


Almost every movie ever made is Joseph Campbell story telling.
blungld
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txwharfrat;842619084 said:

Probably second best all time right behind ESB. It may have even been better.


Okay, everyone is entitled to their opinion...except this one. No.
GB54
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blungld;842619176 said:

Almost every movie ever made is Joseph Campbell story telling.


Sure, but some of it is more intelligent and less silly
Vandalus
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blungld;842619177 said:

Okay, everyone is entitled to their opinion...except this one. No.


As long as this doesn't turn into another pray thread, I'm good.
NYCGOBEARS
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Just got out from seeing it. It was alright. Just alright.
okaydo
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NYCGOBEARS;842619249 said:

Just got out from seeing it. It was alright. Just alright.


[video=youtube_share;X4bg4Q63kJQ][/video]
NYCGOBEARS
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HaasBear04;842619049 said:

Blungld nailed it.

I wanted to see a sequel not episode IV the remix.


Yep
MoragaBear
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I highly enjoyed the movie and didn't mind the borrowed elements. Also thought the dialog was far superior and less cheesy than any of the previous six installments. Loved seeing the old characters return. Carrie Fisher sure sounded like an old grandma, though.

My main issues were with Kylo Ren being too unimposing without the mask and rather on the emo side and General Hux coming across as fairly whimpy, as well, even with all the Hitleresque screaming toward the end. Both characters needed more menace to them, IMO.

It was rumored that Benedict Cumberbatch would play Kylo Ren. He would've been perfect bringing the edge that he brought his Khan character in Star Trek to the role.
GivemTheAxe
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BearsWiin;842619161 said:

So you're saying that EpVII is the equivalent of a 7-5 season?


But who is Goff among the cast?
 
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