I thought he missed time due to injury. When healthy, I thought he was definitely one of our best LBs.

MinotStateBeav;842617829 said:

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Players transferring out..always the sign of a healthy program...Negas vs Pumpers..LETS GET IT ON!!!!

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To be fair, he graduated. That's not quite the same thing as the usual transfer out.

oski003;842618048 said:

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This is exactly why I asked if Cal would allow him to take one B.S. class so he can focus on football, which is what players do at USC. Hopefully, someone has an answer.

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Serious question: would this negatively affect the APR rating? How are graduate transfers handled under the rules?

oski003;842618048 said:

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This is exactly why I asked if Cal would allow him to take one B.S. class so he can focus on football, which is what players do at USC. Hopefully, someone has an answer.

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All you have to do is take 6 credit hours. I believe there's a maximum number of total credits that someone can have to still be eligible but that's not the case here. He can still be eligible even if he's already graduated. In fact, during Duke basketball pre-game introductions, Marshall Plumlee is introduced as a grad student, not a senior.

The guy is getting a grad school degree. This is a good thing and should be celebrated as a successful Cal Alumni.

Especially if his grad degree is on scholarship, then that is really using college football to your advantage as a student.

"...usually football considerations that guide these choices..." This is why I dislike this rule. If there were a way to restrict these cases to serious academic pursuit, I'd feel better about it. As it is, I'd like to see eligibility end with graduation (the real reason theses guys are in school, right?) although I realize a few true scholar athletes would miss out on a subsidized year of post-grad work.

Wishing him well.

59bear;842618068 said:

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"...usually football considerations that guide these choices..." This is why I dislike this rule. If there were a way to restrict these cases to serious academic pursuit, I'd feel better about it. As it is, I'd like to see eligibility end with graduation (the real reason theses guys are in school, right?) although I realize a few true scholar athletes would miss out on a subsidized year of post-grad work.

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The most obvious way to achieve this is to have the player sit out a year before being eligible again for football (so instead of having 5 years of eligibility they would have 6 but would still only be able to play 4). This would give them time to actually get a legit masters and reduce the football first motive of the grad transfer rule.

MoragaBear;842617860 said:

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How about everyone showing a little class and wishing Mike well instead of assigning your own personal biases as to the reason why he's making the grad transfer? Give it a rest, people.

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Are you new here?

:p

-kap

calguru;842617836 said:

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Seriously. Starters wanting to transfer out even after they finally get a winning season speaks volumes about the state of the program.

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It's an NCAA wide trend. You shouldn't dump on any players who opt for this. In fact, I can say it's a better thing to do - the point of going off to college while young is to go out and get exposed to a bunch of new people, places, issues. What better way than to attend a NEW university in your last year!
It would certainly be MORE DIFFICULT to mix in with a new team and culture, so Barton is taking on a challenge, one with lots of opportunity.

That said, any transfer can be counted under the category of Didn't Love Home Enough - to an extent.
But, I'd recommend one go try something else even if home was loved tremendously. Kind of like pushing the chickadee out of the nest. Go For It, Michael.

Go!Bears;842617847 said:

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So Football before education? Sorry, considering the risks they take, I think that's backwards.

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I don't see a MBA from Notre Dame or a engineering degree from Furd as lacking in an education.

calguru;842617884 said:

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I am not trying to say anything about Barton. At the same time, we may not have any clue what's going on, but can't you agree that year after year having our seniors decide to go play elsewhere rather than stay here, provides some insight into the state of our program (especially considering we have a solid prospect of another winning season next year)?

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Well I guess the Furd program sucks because they seem to have a lot of grad transfers leaving. Yes, Rose Bowl 3 out 4 years just sucks.

wifeisafurd;842618105 said:

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I don't see a MBA from Notre Dame or a engineering degree from Furd as lacking in an education.

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Honestly, what does this have to do with getting an MBA from Stanfurd or Notre Dame?

TheSouseFamily;842618059 said:

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All you have to do is take 6 credit hours. I believe there's a maximum number of total credits that someone can have to still be eligible but that's not the case here. He can still be eligible even if he's already graduated. In fact, during Duke basketball pre-game introductions, Marshall Plumlee is introduced as a grad student, not a senior.

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Does Cal allow someone to take only 6 credit hours? If so, could they all be DeCals?

calguru;842618037 said:

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My comments are not aimed specifically at Barton. I'm simply commenting on the pattern that has appeared. You can argue that I don't know what is actually going on behind the scenes and you would be right. But unless someone makes me privy to that info, all I can do is to take the information I have, which is showing a pattern of grad transfers out of the program at a rate that is atypical at most other schools. I wish Barton good luck.

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Who has more grad transfers out: Cal or Furd? Who has the better football program?

wifeisafurd;842618112 said:

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Who has more grad transfers out: Cal or Furd? Who has the better football program?

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I'd assume you know more about furd football, but I didn't think their transfers were in line to be impact players if they returned?

They have 3 to 4 players a year, typically 1 to 2 starters, a guy like Barton who played, but wasn't necessarily a starter, and a player or two that really was there for depth or didn't play. This is going to be a tougher issue for real schools, who have guys that are real students, graduate in less than five years because they take summer classes, etc. There are guys who really take a long term view and see football as a way to get into a better gad school and not pay tuition. Shaw has taken the view that its a good thing for recruiting, but they may be appealing to more academic-oriented kids than Cal. I don't see why Sonny isn't hyping his players go to top grad programs like Sebastain and Scarlett.

Best wishes !!!

Bearacious;842618024 said:

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Totally agree: congratulations to Mike !!!!!!!! A Cal student who seeks graduate study is always something to celebrate, and the credit he brings to the football program as part of the larger Cal student body is a great contribution. Nice Work Mike !!

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I have had several conversations with Michael after practices/scrimmages over the past few years. On each occasion, he has been gregarious, earnest, forthright and well spoken. He takes the time to ask my boys questions about their school and sports and does not rush away when teammates call him over. He is a great young man.

We were looking forward to cheering for him during his senior season. My boys will be really bummed to hear this news. Regardless, I wish him nothing but the best and much success and happiness.

He'll always be a Bear in my book, particularly with the degree he will earn from Cal.

Go Bears!

wifeisafurd;842618108 said:

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Well I guess the Furd program sucks because they seem to have a lot of grad transfers leaving. Yes, Rose Bowl 3 out 4 years just sucks.

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I don't know, but were those starters that transferred as grads from Stanford? Maybe Patrick Skov?

These players that take advantage of the grad loophole and get a free Master's are smart. I would do the same thing. It just stings because we're losing a senior at our weakest position, and the position coach evidently sucks at recruiting even worse then coaching.

Shoreline;842618033 said:

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Anyone else notice a huge surge in grad transfers the past few years (most noticeably since Russell Wilson)? The grad transfer rule is being abused and the NCAA should do something about it. Who honestly believes Vernon Adams or other transfers are doing graduate level coursework? It's at a point where it's just an excuse to extend the football career for those who won't make it to the NFL.

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I think they're going to have to shut it down or get new rules because it's starting to be abused.

As for Barton or anyone else who finished their degree...good luck, you've honored your commitment at Cal. I wish he'd stay but can't blame anyone for wanting a different or another chance after completing an obligation.

Beardog26;842618155 said:

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I have had several conversations with Michael after practices/scrimmages over the past few years. On each occasion, he has been gregarious, earnest, forthright and well spoken. He takes the time to ask my boys questions about their school and sports and does not rush away when teammates call him over. He is a great young man.

We were looking forward to cheering for him during his senior season. My boys will be really bummed to hear this news. Regardless, I wish him nothing but the best and much success and happiness.

He'll always be a Bear in my book, particularly with the degree he will earn from Cal.

Go Bears!

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Thanks for the "inside" info, Beardog. Congrats, Mike, for being a great Golden Bear!

(For those who have used this thread to bash the coaching staff, there is other evidence that you could cite -- real stuff -- besides this. Inferring things into this situation that might very well be inaccurate makes you look petty.)

On the basketball side, I know we have had players in the past that got undergraduate degrees in three years, and used the fourth year for graduate study. I believe Dennis Gates did that, and took a master's in education as a start to his coaching career. The key is can the player get into a graduate program on his own merit.

calguru;842617853 said:

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I think your understanding here is backwards. 99% of the time these "grad" transfers are "football before education" moves for the players. If he is truly making this decision for academic reasons then more power to him, but I'd be willing to wager that's not the case.

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You'd know. Your name says "guru," so you must be a smart guy and not some jackass negabear troll who says the same thing over and over and over and over and over.

MoragaBear;842618166 said:

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Like who? Starting corner Wayne Lyons?

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I wasn't being sarcastic, I was sincere in saying that WIAF would be more familiar with the Furd's transfer situation.

Uthaithani;842618220 said:

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You'd know. Your name says "guru," so you must be a smart guy and not some jackass negabear troll who says the same thing over and over and over and over and over.

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Because this really brought some intelligent discussion...

SFBear2012;842618183 said:

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These players that take advantage of the grad loophole and get a free Master's are smart. I would do the same thing. It just stings because we're losing a senior at our weakest position, and the position coach evidently sucks at recruiting even worse then coaching.

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For the most part, I agree. Although I think they should tweak the rule and have them sit out a year. This should help deal with the issue (or perception) that this rule is simply allowing football motivated transfers, and also help actually get these players their masters. The NCAA only has figures from 2011 and 2012, but about 75% of grad transfers are going into programs that are at least 2 year degrees. For football, less than 25% of grad transfers received their masters two years later, with 68% having withdrawn from the school. If you have them sit out a year, without having it count against their eligibility (essentially giving them a second redshirt year), I think it could go a long way in ensuring these players leave with a masters.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/grad%20xfer%20EP_final2_0.pdf

calguru;842618265 said:

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If you have them sit out a year, without having it count against their eligibility (essentially giving them a second redshirt year), I think it could go a long way in ensuring these players leave with a mastershttp://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/grad%20xfer%20EP_final2_0.pdf

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And they'd only be as old as BYU sophomores.

They should just make grad transfers count against APR if they don't get their grad degree. That might convince some schools to make sure they aren't taking mercenaries. Maybe they need something stronger than that however to ensure the transfer is at least in part to get a second degree.

Beardog26;842618155 said:

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I have had several conversations with Michael after practices/scrimmages over the past few years. On each occasion, he has been gregarious, earnest, forthright and well spoken. He takes the time to ask my boys questions about their school and sports and does not rush away when teammates call him over. He is a great young man.

We were looking forward to cheering for him during his senior season. My boys will be really bummed to hear this news. Regardless, I wish him nothing but the best and much success and happiness.

He'll always be a Bear in my book, particularly with the degree he will earn from Cal.

Go Bears!

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He will appreciate hearing that. Thank you for the sincere post. Whether he is at Cal or wherever else his journey takes him, I would like to believe and expect him to continue to behave the way you described him...Michael is very proud of getting a Cal degree and has nothing but appreciation for a wonderful education and experience that Cal provided him. Don't be surprised if 10-15 years down the road he is a coach at Cal! No, no, he will not be another Tosh! (-:

calguru;842618124 said:

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I'd assume you know more about furd football, but I didn't think their transfers were in line to be impact players if they returned?

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For the most part, that's true, I think. It's seemed obvious in most cases that the player in question felt he was being mis- or under-used as a player and wanted more playing time. Kelsey Young, for instance, or even Patrick Skov, who once at Georgia Tech got the chance to run the ball a lot out of the FB position, which never would have happened on the Farm. Even Wayne Lyons, a highly recruited player who saw some good action over the years, was kind of demoted mid-season last year. There's no way to know with absolute certainty, but this seems to be the pattern thus far.

MoragaBear;842618166 said:

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Like who? Starting corner Wayne Lyons?

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Skov,. Young, Reihner, Hopkins all played at their next school.

Jeff82;842618217 said:

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On the basketball side, I know we have had players in the past that got undergraduate degrees in three years, and used the fourth year for graduate study. I believe Dennis Gates did that, and took a master's in education as a start to his coaching career. The key is can the player get into a graduate program on his own merit.

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didn't cal have a basketball grad student from Cornell who actually played a fair amount. He was a legit student and you didn't hear the Cornell people crying.