wallyball2003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

wallyball2003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Trump punishes competence in his team and is dumb enough to think he's smart enough to make any decision. Trump will probably fire Anthony Fauci soon and put Kushner or Dr Oz in charge of the CV response, so please spare us the bothsides-ism.

---

Has anyone heard from Fauci lately? I wonder whether it was the fact that Fauci was getting "rave reviews" or the fact that he was telling the truth that caused Trump to silence him?

---

You crack me up. Do you have a television? Fauci is very active in the regular briefings. Sorry to burst your partisan bubble...though I don't imagine countervailing facts bother you much. SOP for those of you who reside at the extremes.

---

LOL, Fauci was gone for a bit and they asked him on CNN and he said he had urgent business at NIH. So he hasn't been silenced yet, I will grant you that.

As for extremes - I'm arguably center right based on the economic policies of this country and historical republican party. The proposals the republicans are making now would have been labeled socialist by Republicans just last week. Don't conflate opinions on Trump with ideology.

---

Asked him on CNN? He's been on every channel. Hope you're proud stirring the partisan pot. You should be ashamed.

---

He was absent from a couple of briefings in a row and given that he spends a lot of his time correcting for Trump's dissembling propaganda, I don't think my concern is unreasonable. Trump frequently silences truthtellers in his administration.

In this time of crisis, there should be bipartisan condemnation of Trump's conduct. He goes on TV every day and lies to this country about a crisis that is overwhelming our healthcare system and has brought our economy to a halt. I'm not ashamed for holding our disaster of a president accountable for his horrendous misconduct.

A few weeks ago he told us we would soon go from 15 cases to none and not to worry. At the same time Republicans were being briefed on the impending crisis and selling their stock. We now have in excess of 20k cases but don't know the true extent because we still haven't caught up with testing.

But I should be ashamed?

Cal89 said:

---

Fauci, I think we all would agree, has been great. This virus caught us all by surprise; and there was seemingly no expectation of such an impact. Tony, about three weeks ago, felt the risk was very minimal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

The cover-up/suppression by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), for at least a few weeks, was extremely contributory to where we, and the world is today. The knowledge of the virus dates back to at least 08 Dec 2019, some now feel Oct to Nov timeframe. We are reminded very quickly that it's an authoritarian regime that squashes freedom of speech. Unfortunately, the Chinese people are the ones who are most often impacted. Now, we feel the wrath...

And while the CCP had knowledge of this virus, outbound flights continued. To the US, as I understand, about 10,000 travelers a day arrived from China. When we and other nations suspended flights to/from China, the CCP and WHO voiced immediate displeasure with such a response. Yet, China was is full lock-down mode, limiting the travel of many millions of people to a degree the world had never seen. WTH.

Very few know the actual name of the virus, per taxonomy - SARS-CoV-2. There is a genetic link to SARS. Chinese officials didn't want this official name used though. In China's view, SARS was a black eye. SARS-CoV-2 is a mouth-full though, and the CCP clearly didn't want a SARS reference, so COVID-19 was born. The hyper-sensitivity of the Chinese government hits many facets of our lives, corporate and Hollywood being the most popular I suppose...

As I recall, the Swine Flu (H1N1) began in Mexico, crossed into SD, and thrived in the US for about a year, April to April, I believe...

Ok, so this is the equities thread!

Have been layering-in at strategic points. AAPL most recently @230 (support/resistance price). QQQ and SPY also, working-in calls and put, selling to collect some high premium. Bought a QQQ put that did well on the way down. Should things get much worse, I have a standing order for AAPL around 140. Ouch, but I'll take it there. A couple orders above too..

---

I see we are now blaming China.

We have a President that believes these authoritarian dictator strongmen, are his friends and peers. He trusts them over our own intelligence agencies. Back in January our intelligence agencies were warning Trump that the Chinese were lying and here is Trump on January 24:

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump tweeted Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

If you don't go into this expecting the Chinese government to lie you are doing it wrong. We aren't feeling the wrath of what the Chinese did. We are feeling the wrath of our own incompetent, misguided government. Trump's supporters can continue to point fingers elsewhere but I'd like to have a government that is proactive, responsible, and accountable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

dajo9 said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

Fauci, I think we all would agree, has been great. This virus caught us all by surprise; and there was seemingly no expectation of such an impact. Tony, about three weeks ago, felt the risk was very minimal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

The cover-up/suppression by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), for at least a few weeks, was extremely contributory to where we, and the world is today. The knowledge of the virus dates back to at least 08 Dec 2019, some now feel Oct to Nov timeframe. We are reminded very quickly that it's an authoritarian regime that squashes freedom of speech. Unfortunately, the Chinese people are the ones who are most often impacted. Now, we feel the wrath...

And while the CCP had knowledge of this virus, outbound flights continued. To the US, as I understand, about 10,000 travelers a day arrived from China. When we and other nations suspended flights to/from China, the CCP and WHO voiced immediate displeasure with such a response. Yet, China was is full lock-down mode, limiting the travel of many millions of people to a degree the world had never seen. WTH.

Very few know the actual name of the virus, per taxonomy - SARS-CoV-2. There is a genetic link to SARS. Chinese officials didn't want this official name used though. In China's view, SARS was a black eye. SARS-CoV-2 is a mouth-full though, and the CCP clearly didn't want a SARS reference, so COVID-19 was born. The hyper-sensitivity of the Chinese government hits many facets of our lives, corporate and Hollywood being the most popular I suppose...

As I recall, the Swine Flu (H1N1) began in Mexico, crossed into SD, and thrived in the US for about a year, April to April, I believe...

Ok, so this is the equities thread!

Have been layering-in at strategic points. AAPL most recently @230 (support/resistance price). QQQ and SPY also, working-in calls and put, selling to collect some high premium. Bought a QQQ put that did well on the way down. Should things get much worse, I have a standing order for AAPL around 140. Ouch, but I'll take it there. A couple orders above too..

---

I see we are now blaming China.

We have a President that believes these authoritarian dictator strongmen, are his friends and peers. He trusts them over our own intelligence agencies. Back in January our intelligence agencies were warning Trump that the Chinese were lying and here is Trump on January 24:

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump tweeted Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

If you don't go into this expecting the Chinese government to lie you are doing it wrong. We aren't feeling the wrath of what the Chinese did. We are feeling the wrath of our own incompetent, misguided government. Trump's supporters can continue to point fingers elsewhere but I'd like to have a government that is proactive, responsible, and accountable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

---

First, if I were to be brief, and I won't, I'd simply say that I'm fine stating that we disagree with:

1. Our approach to investing and corresponding decisions and
2. Our take on China's culpability with respect to this virus

I will expound though, because I have time, and I find it important. Since you quoted me, a person you don't know, I'm not just "now" blaming China, namely its government, a very important distinction. I learned to be critical of the regime nearly two decades ago, first while combatting IP theft and counterfeit goods. The State involvement is undeniable and integral to China's rise; often at the expense of legitimate enterprises, not just US ones.

Prior, I remember exactly where I was when I learned of the events at Tiananmen Square (TS) at the newspaper stand across from the then "Caf Roma". It was one of my last days on the Cal campus as a student. I would later go-on to grad school and my thesis research took me to Asia where I lived for a while. Most of that time was in Taiwan, the period after martial law had end, under its first democratically elected President, Lee Teng-hui. The many stories and experiences will hopefully never leave me.

Suffice it to say, I had a sense Taiwan would flourish; and it was my hope that at some point there would be unification with the mainland, one where the Chinese people would share in the joys and freedoms of democracy. It was a time of hope as Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau were examples of what could be for the masses of Chinese. The USSR had rather suddenly dissolved too. I made it a point to visit HK and Macau before returning home.

Post TS, China took a hit and while the rest of the world's economies were accelerating, stock markets reflecting such, China's GDP was trending lower in the back-half of the 90s. I was onboard with Clinton's push for China join the World Trade Organization (WTO). It made sense and would hopefully be the lure for China to join the world's rules-based order, ideally paving the way for freedoms for the Chinese people.

It obviously didn't work-out that way. Being with my employer since early 2001, just a short time later, I unfortunately was one of the first to see the IP abuses, ones that would prove to be chronic, escalate and be pervasive across industries. Given my hopes, I was personally distraught that China was seemingly taking advantage of WTO membership, and on a massive scale. Legal action with resounding evidence didn't slow it down one bit.

Fast-forward to today, or more recently, the US Department of Justice indicted Huawei on multiple accounts. Within it was learned that Huawei memos were found indicating a bonus program exists to incentivize its employees to steal IP from competitors. Let that sink-in. This is China's darling enterprise, our Microsoft, Apple, AT&T all wrapped-up into one. Like many of China's corporation, it's an SOE (State-Owned Enterprise), and also with PLA (People's Liberation Army) connections. Top-down orders to steal, and at our expense. This is not unique to just Huawei of course.

With term limits removed, Xi is essentially an emperor, many likening him to Chairman Mao. The last few years, the control of the Chinese citizenry has ratcheted-up, unfortunately. It has become the largest surveillance state. During the virus outbreak in China, the pleas for freedom of speech, even if only temporary, were quickly squashed by the CCP. As I reflect back to the TS Massacre in 1989, there has been no progress on the freedom front. It's actually worse; and this is with the population as a whole, including the Han Chinese.

We know about Tibet and Honk Kong, fewer know about the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, the "re-education camps". By some accounts, a million or more are kept it these facilities. What happens within, what we've heard, is simply horrible. They are essentially concentration camps. This response is already long, so I'll refrain from several more paragraphs on this topic. I feel that it's a modern-day genocide unfolding in front of us.

Religious beliefs and freedoms are not tolerated and have gone backwards. Quite simply, you must believe the Party, nothing else. Temples, churches and places of worship, destroyed. They somehow might be conspiring against the Party. There have been and continue to be targeted attacks all faiths in China such as Muslims, Christians, Tibetan Buddhists, and Falun Gong. They even banned Santa Claus and celebrating Christmas. As much money as China spends on its military, it spends more on internal control measures, sadly. I'm not providing supporting URLs for these claims, but a search will find the same.

More recently, with China becoming an economic and military power with clout, such undesirable conduct is no longer relegated to within its borders only. Strong territorial disagreements exist and clashes happen with neighbors on a regular basis. Just a few days ago, 10-12 of their "fishing boats" rammed a Taiwanese cutter. As some might know, China took the unprecedented action to claim an entire sea its own. Their 9-dashed line essentially encircles this highly important waterway, even to the point of encroaching upon legal EEZs (Exclusive Economic Zone). If one recently purchased a map or globe, it likely has this 9-dash line on it. Many feel the SCS (South China Sea) will be a flashpoint for a major conflict.

The CCP does what it wishes, and controls what is said, the best it can. The ends justify the means. Job one is to suppress or censor, often the truth, if it doesn't fit the Party's endgame. There are tons of examples of this from banned books and websites to intermittent TV blackouts and online chats disappearing. Globally, the CCP has dictated terms to corporations on such matters of how they reference Taiwan on their websites, or what their employees speak about, like the HK protests. The NBA fiasco comes-to-mind as a recent example of this outward control and hyper-sensitivity. China's influence on Hollywood again goes toward the CCP's drive to portray their country in an exceedingly good light. There too they have threatened to not fund movies or release them in China that don't abide by their requests on what to add or remove. As some might know, the Top Gun sequel is upon us. There looks be such petty interference in that production. On this note, a major kudos to Richard Gere for calling-out China shenanigans years ago. He paid the price for doing so. I applaud him.

While I can continue on with what makes the CCP a bad actor and a legitimate global concern, I believe I've said enough to make that point. Today's CCP-lead China is the antithesis of all that we stand for, the western world as a whole. The human rights abuses alone should rally the world to take a more concerted stand. I failed to mention earlier the rampant organ-harvesting in China. Disgusting beyond belief. Again, Google is your friend.

So, from a young Cal student about to earn his degree from the best university in the world in early June 1989, full of hope for the Chinese people and their aspirations for freedom, now in my 50s, it still has not happened, at least yet. I have grown to be highly critical of the CCP. It and its military have a loyalty to the Party, not the people. It is written as such, and evident. The history of CCP's rule is littered with tragedy for the Chinese people. Any path to liberation looks to once again inflict more despair upon the population, sadly.

With that all said, I would have shared what I did above, regardless who is our president. It's not simply because it's convenient way to support the administration, or that I'm some avid Trump supporter. I believe I said before on this forum, I didn't vote for the guy and personally find him a blowhard. I often shake my head and cringe when he speaks. I am however not one of those who then automatically, reflexively, despises everything he says and does. Similarly, I can disagree with a forum member here like our beloved "calalumus", then in another thread star his post, which I have done BTW.

This Corona / SARS virus originated in China. There is clear evidence that Chinese authorities were aware in early Dec 2019. It seems they might have known earlier. Regardless, over weeks the CCP made a concerted effort to punish those who spoke-up about this disease, delete chats, vanish some, as opposed to listening and actively working to combat the virus. It was, and remains, all about the perception, again. Weeks lost, a month or longer, is huge, especially that time of year, the Chinese Lunar New Year. It was Axios who reported that if China would have taken action against the virus three weeks earlier, the spread would have been reduced 95%. It's math and science, not hocus pocus, or conjecture.

They didn't and failed to be forthright with the global community early-on too. A more responsible nation would have been more open, shared, solicited help. They did the opposite, refused assistance even. What they share with others becomes the starting point of action for those countries. Such was lacking. The virus had not just a head-of-steam in China, but elsewhere too as global air traffic continued for weeks, thanks to the CCP's decision to stifle the truth. If correct, daily there were about 10k travelers from China to the US. To think that China and the WHO voiced serious displeasure with the US and world over flight bans is unthinkable. At the same time such anger was expressed, large portions of China were under a massive lockdown with the same intent in-mind, to limit spread. It is beyond hypocritical.

A virus should never be about blame and culpability. If there were to be an exception, this is the one. Speaking for myself and others I know who feel the same about the CCP's gross negligence, criminal conduct even, felt it best to raise such concerns later during a post-mortem, not at this time. Then we hear wild assertions out of China that maybe the US military planted this virus. This was not simply some social media post, but from a government-sponsored news source, and also from CCP officials. The narrative control, deflection, is in full force.

Just because China's actions and lack of are extremely contributory to where we are today, that is not to say there were no other short-coming of course, including this administration, the federal government as a whole. Non-mutual exclusivity applies.

We have never encountered a disease that has demanded such a volume of testing. Per the CDC, for reference, we kicked-out 1,000 test kits for the H1N1 Swine Flu in 2009, and that took four months. We didn't need beds, masks and PPEs to this degree before either. We are in unchartered territory. I would have liked to have heard our president take ownership, even though this reality transcends administrations. The buck should always stops with those who are, and have been in charge.

As I recently told my dad, Trump missed yet another opportunity to show some humility by being even somewhat accountable for not recognizing the gaps in our readiness for such a challenge. I am not a fan of his communication style. He seems to believe in sweet-talking about world leaders, as if that then allows him leeway to then take contrary action. I learned early-on that this is his shtick and to ignore such niceties about his "friend" Xi, and the like. With him, and really anyone, ultimately what matters most is what is done. Like it or not, this administration has been a major thorn in the CCP's side. Given what I shared earlier, I find that a good thing, and a very long-time coming.

If I'm going to criticize what he said a few weeks back when he minimized concerns about this virus, and I did, it would be wrong of me to ignore when others like Fauci did the same. This is especially so when Trump leans on him for input. He is highly respected, globally, yet got it wrong. The input we had from intelligence reports, the limited amount from the CCCP, was not sufficient to take and make well-informed positions and later decisions, Fauci, Trump, others.

Since this is the Equities thread, futures are open, down 5%, circuit breakers trip, trading halted. Buckle-up, the fun continues!

dajo9 said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

Fauci, I think we all would agree, has been great. This virus caught us all by surprise; and there was seemingly no expectation of such an impact. Tony, about three weeks ago, felt the risk was very minimal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

The cover-up/suppression by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), for at least a few weeks, was extremely contributory to where we, and the world is today. The knowledge of the virus dates back to at least 08 Dec 2019, some now feel Oct to Nov timeframe. We are reminded very quickly that it's an authoritarian regime that squashes freedom of speech. Unfortunately, the Chinese people are the ones who are most often impacted. Now, we feel the wrath...

And while the CCP had knowledge of this virus, outbound flights continued. To the US, as I understand, about 10,000 travelers a day arrived from China. When we and other nations suspended flights to/from China, the CCP and WHO voiced immediate displeasure with such a response. Yet, China was is full lock-down mode, limiting the travel of many millions of people to a degree the world had never seen. WTH.

Very few know the actual name of the virus, per taxonomy - SARS-CoV-2. There is a genetic link to SARS. Chinese officials didn't want this official name used though. In China's view, SARS was a black eye. SARS-CoV-2 is a mouth-full though, and the CCP clearly didn't want a SARS reference, so COVID-19 was born. The hyper-sensitivity of the Chinese government hits many facets of our lives, corporate and Hollywood being the most popular I suppose...

As I recall, the Swine Flu (H1N1) began in Mexico, crossed into SD, and thrived in the US for about a year, April to April, I believe...

Ok, so this is the equities thread!

Have been layering-in at strategic points. AAPL most recently @230 (support/resistance price). QQQ and SPY also, working-in calls and put, selling to collect some high premium. Bought a QQQ put that did well on the way down. Should things get much worse, I have a standing order for AAPL around 140. Ouch, but I'll take it there. A couple orders above too..

---

I see we are now blaming China.

We have a President that believes these authoritarian dictator strongmen, are his friends and peers. He trusts them over our own intelligence agencies. Back in January our intelligence agencies were warning Trump that the Chinese were lying and here is Trump on January 24:

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump tweeted Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

If you don't go into this expecting the Chinese government to lie you are doing it wrong. We aren't feeling the wrath of what the Chinese did. We are feeling the wrath of our own incompetent, misguided government. Trump's supporters can continue to point fingers elsewhere but I'd like to have a government that is proactive, responsible, and accountable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

---

The leaders of the US say nobody could see this coming. If so, why the same week when both South Korea and the US each experienced their first confirmed case of Covid19 did South Korea begin a very aggressive policy of preparing for the Pandemic and a the US continue with its denial that there was any real threat of a pandemic.

Maybe the leaders of South Korea are just smarter than the leaders of the US. They after all did see this thing coming.

Cal89 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

Fauci, I think we all would agree, has been great. This virus caught us all by surprise; and there was seemingly no expectation of such an impact. Tony, about three weeks ago, felt the risk was very minimal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

The cover-up/suppression by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), for at least a few weeks, was extremely contributory to where we, and the world is today. The knowledge of the virus dates back to at least 08 Dec 2019, some now feel Oct to Nov timeframe. We are reminded very quickly that it's an authoritarian regime that squashes freedom of speech. Unfortunately, the Chinese people are the ones who are most often impacted. Now, we feel the wrath...

And while the CCP had knowledge of this virus, outbound flights continued. To the US, as I understand, about 10,000 travelers a day arrived from China. When we and other nations suspended flights to/from China, the CCP and WHO voiced immediate displeasure with such a response. Yet, China was is full lock-down mode, limiting the travel of many millions of people to a degree the world had never seen. WTH.

Very few know the actual name of the virus, per taxonomy - SARS-CoV-2. There is a genetic link to SARS. Chinese officials didn't want this official name used though. In China's view, SARS was a black eye. SARS-CoV-2 is a mouth-full though, and the CCP clearly didn't want a SARS reference, so COVID-19 was born. The hyper-sensitivity of the Chinese government hits many facets of our lives, corporate and Hollywood being the most popular I suppose...

As I recall, the Swine Flu (H1N1) began in Mexico, crossed into SD, and thrived in the US for about a year, April to April, I believe...

Ok, so this is the equities thread!

Have been layering-in at strategic points. AAPL most recently @230 (support/resistance price). QQQ and SPY also, working-in calls and put, selling to collect some high premium. Bought a QQQ put that did well on the way down. Should things get much worse, I have a standing order for AAPL around 140. Ouch, but I'll take it there. A couple orders above too..

---

I see we are now blaming China.

We have a President that believes these authoritarian dictator strongmen, are his friends and peers. He trusts them over our own intelligence agencies. Back in January our intelligence agencies were warning Trump that the Chinese were lying and here is Trump on January 24:

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump tweeted Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

If you don't go into this expecting the Chinese government to lie you are doing it wrong. We aren't feeling the wrath of what the Chinese did. We are feeling the wrath of our own incompetent, misguided government. Trump's supporters can continue to point fingers elsewhere but I'd like to have a government that is proactive, responsible, and accountable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

---

First, if I were to be brief, and I won't, I'd simply say that I'm fine stating that we disagree with:

1. Our approach to investing and corresponding decisions and
2. Our take on China's culpability with respect to this virus

I will expound though, because I have time, and I find it important. Since you quoted me, a person you don't know, I'm not just "now" blaming China, namely its government, a very important distinction. I learned to be critical of the regime nearly two decades ago, first while combatting IP theft and counterfeit goods. The State involvement is undeniable and integral to China's rise; often at the expense of legitimate enterprises, not just US ones.

Prior, I remember exactly where I was when I learned of the events at Tiananmen Square (TS) at the newspaper stand across from the then "Caf Roma". It was one of my last days on the Cal campus as a student. I would later go-on to grad school and my thesis research took me to Asia where I lived for a while. Most of that time was in Taiwan, the period after martial law had end, under its first democratically elected President, Lee Teng-hui. The many stories and experiences will hopefully never leave me.

Suffice it to say, I had a sense Taiwan would flourish; and it was my hope that at some point there would be unification with the mainland, one where the Chinese people would share in the joys and freedoms of democracy. It was a time of hope as Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau were examples of what could be for the masses of Chinese. The USSR had rather suddenly dissolved too. I made it a point to visit HK and Macau before returning home.

Post TS, China took a hit and while the rest of the world's economies were accelerating, stock markets reflecting such, China's GDP was trending lower in the back-half of the 90s. I was onboard with Clinton's push for China join the World Trade Organization (WTO). It made sense and would hopefully be the lure for China to join the world's rules-based order, ideally paving the way for freedoms for the Chinese people.

It obviously didn't work-out that way. Being with my employer since early 2001, just a short time later, I unfortunately was one of the first to see the IP abuses, ones that would prove to be chronic, escalate and be pervasive across industries. Given my hopes, I was personally distraught that China was seemingly taking advantage of WTO membership, and on a massive scale. Legal action with resounding evidence didn't slow it down one bit.

Fast-forward to today, or more recently, the US Department of Justice indicted Huawei on multiple accounts. Within it was learned that Huawei memos were found indicating a bonus program exists to incentivize its employees to steal IP from competitors. Let that sink-in. This is China's darling enterprise, our Microsoft, Apple, AT&T all wrapped-up into one. Like many of China's corporation, it's an SOE (State-Owned Enterprise), and also with PLA (People's Liberation Army) connections. Top-down orders to steal, and at our expense. This is not unique to just Huawei of course.

With term limits removed, Xi is essentially an emperor, many likening him to Chairman Mao. The last few years, the control of the Chinese citizenry has ratcheted-up, unfortunately. It has become the largest surveillance state. During the virus outbreak in China, the pleas for freedom of speech, even if only temporary, were quickly squashed by the CCP. As I reflect back to the TS Massacre in 1989, there has been no progress on the freedom front. It's actually worse; and this is with the population as a whole, including the Han Chinese.

We know about Tibet and Honk Kong, fewer know about the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, the "re-education camps". By some accounts, a million or more are kept it these facilities. What happens within, what we've heard, is simply horrible. They are essentially concentration camps. This response is already long, so I'll refrain from several more paragraphs on this topic. I feel that it's a modern-day genocide unfolding in front of us.

Religious beliefs and freedoms are not tolerated and have gone backwards. Quite simply, you must believe the Party, nothing else. Temples, churches and places of worship, destroyed. They somehow might be conspiring against the Party. There have been and continue to be targeted attacks all faiths in China such as Muslims, Christians, Tibetan Buddhists, and Falun Gong. They even banned Santa Claus and celebrating Christmas. As much money as China spends on its military, it spends more on internal control measures, sadly. I'm not providing supporting URLs for these claims, but a search will find the same.

More recently, with China becoming an economic and military power with clout, such undesirable conduct is no longer relegated to within its borders only. Strong territorial disagreements exist and clashes happen with neighbors on a regular basis. Just a few days ago, 10-12 of their "fishing boats" rammed a Taiwanese cutter. As some might know, China took the unprecedented action to claim an entire sea its own. Their 9-dashed line essentially encircles this highly important waterway, even to the point of encroaching upon legal EEZs (Exclusive Economic Zone). If one recently purchased a map or globe, it likely has this 9-dash line on it. Many feel the SCS (South China Sea) will be a flashpoint for a major conflict.

The CCP does what it wishes, and controls what is said, the best it can. The ends justify the means. Job one is to suppress or censor, often the truth, if it doesn't fit the Party's endgame. There are tons of examples of this from banned books and websites to intermittent TV blackouts and online chats disappearing. Globally, the CCP has dictated terms to corporations on such matters of how they reference Taiwan on their websites, or what their employees speak about, like the HK protests. The NBA fiasco comes-to-mind as a recent example of this outward control and hyper-sensitivity. China's influence on Hollywood again goes toward the CCP's drive to portray their country in an exceedingly good light. There too they have threatened to not fund movies or release them in China that don't abide by their requests on what to add or remove. As some might know, the Top Gun sequel is upon us. There looks be such petty interference in that production. On this note, a major kudos to Richard Gere for calling-out China shenanigans years ago. He paid the price for doing so. I applaud him.

While I can continue on with what makes the CCP a bad actor and a legitimate global concern, I believe I've said enough to make that point. Today's CCP-lead China is the antithesis of all that we stand for, the western world as a whole. The human rights abuses alone should rally the world to take a more concerted stand. I failed to mention earlier the rampant organ-harvesting in China. Disgusting beyond belief. Again, Google is your friend.

So, from a young Cal student about to earn his degree from the best university in the world in early June 1989, full of hope for the Chinese people and their aspirations for freedom, now in my 50s, it still has not happened, at least yet. I have grown to be highly critical of the CCP. It and its military have a loyalty to the Party, not the people. It is written as such, and evident. The history of CCP's rule is littered with tragedy for the Chinese people. Any path to liberation looks to once again inflict more despair upon the population, sadly.

With that all said, I would have shared what I did above, regardless who is our president. It's not simply because it's convenient way to support the administration, or that I'm some avid Trump supporter. I believe I said before on this forum, I didn't vote for the guy and personally find him a blowhard. I often shake my head and cringe when he speaks. I am however not one of those who then automatically, reflexively, despises everything he says and does. Similarly, I can disagree with a forum member here like our beloved "calalumus", then in another thread star his post, which I have done BTW.

This Corona / SARS virus originated in China. There is clear evidence that Chinese authorities were aware in early Dec 2019. It seems they might have known earlier. Regardless, over weeks the CCP made a concerted effort to punish those who spoke-up about this disease, delete chats, vanish some, as opposed to listening and actively working to combat the virus. It was, and remains, all about the perception, again. Weeks lost, a month or longer, is huge, especially that time of year, the Chinese Lunar New Year. It was Axios who reported that if China would have taken action against the virus three weeks earlier, the spread would have been reduced 95%. It's math and science, not hocus pocus, or conjecture.

They didn't and failed to be forthright with the global community early-on too. A more responsible nation would have been more open, shared, solicited help. They did the opposite, refused assistance even. What they share with others becomes the starting point of action for those countries. Such was lacking. The virus had not just a head-of-steam in China, but elsewhere too as global air traffic continued for weeks, thanks to the CCP's decision to stifle the truth. If correct, daily there were about 10k travelers from China to the US. To think that China and the WHO voiced serious displeasure with the US and world over flight bans is unthinkable. At the same time such anger was expressed, large portions of China were under a massive lockdown with the same intent in-mind, to limit spread. It is beyond hypocritical.

A virus should never be about blame and culpability. If there were to be an exception, this is the one. Speaking for myself and others I know who feel the same about the CCP's gross negligence, criminal conduct even, felt it best to raise such concerns later during a post-mortem, not at this time. Then we hear wild assertions out of China that maybe the US military planted this virus. This was not simply some social media post, but from a government-sponsored news source, and also from CCP officials. The narrative control, deflection, is in full force.

Just because China's actions and lack of are extremely contributory to where we are today, that is not to say there were no other short-coming of course, including this administration, the federal government as a whole. Non-mutual exclusivity applies.

We have never encountered a disease that has demanded such a volume of testing. Per the CDC, for reference, we kicked-out 1,000 test kits for the H1N1 Swine Flu in 2009, and that took four months. We didn't need beds, masks and PPEs to this degree before either. We are in unchartered territory. I would have liked to have heard our president take ownership, even though this reality transcends administrations. The buck should always stops with those who are, and have been in charge.

As I recently told my dad, Trump missed yet another opportunity to show some humility by being even somewhat accountable for not recognizing the gaps in our readiness for such a challenge. I am not a fan of his communication style. He seems to believe in sweet-talking about world leaders, as if that then allows him leeway to then take contrary action. I learned early-on that this is his shtick and to ignore such niceties about his "friend" Xi, and the like. With him, and really anyone, ultimately what matters most is what is done. Like it or not, this administration has been a major thorn in the CCP's side. Given what I shared earlier, I find that a good thing, and a very long-time coming.

If I'm going to criticize what he said a few weeks back when he minimized concerns about this virus, and I did, it would be wrong of me to ignore when others like Fauci did the same. This is especially so when Trump leans on him for input. He is highly respected, globally, yet got it wrong. The input we had from intelligence reports, the limited amount from the CCCP, was not sufficient to take and make well-informed positions and later decisions, Fauci, Trump, others.

Since this is the Equities thread, futures are open, down 5%, circuit breakers trip, trading halted. Buckle-up, the fun continues!

---

I'm glad all of us except Trump recognize that the Chinese government is an unreliable partner and source of information.

You should know when you mention that it took the CDC 4 months to get out 1,000 test kits in 2009 - per the CDC each test kit was good for 1,000 tests. That's 1 million tests. The difference in approach between now and 2009 is staggering in the inaction of the Federal government today. At one point, from the same starting point, South Korea had tested 150,000 people and we had only tested 5,000.

Testing shortage now, ventilator shortage tomorrow.

Cal89 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

Fauci, I think we all would agree, has been great. This virus caught us all by surprise; and there was seemingly no expectation of such an impact. Tony, about three weeks ago, felt the risk was very minimal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

The cover-up/suppression by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), for at least a few weeks, was extremely contributory to where we, and the world is today. The knowledge of the virus dates back to at least 08 Dec 2019, some now feel Oct to Nov timeframe. We are reminded very quickly that it's an authoritarian regime that squashes freedom of speech. Unfortunately, the Chinese people are the ones who are most often impacted. Now, we feel the wrath...

And while the CCP had knowledge of this virus, outbound flights continued. To the US, as I understand, about 10,000 travelers a day arrived from China. When we and other nations suspended flights to/from China, the CCP and WHO voiced immediate displeasure with such a response. Yet, China was is full lock-down mode, limiting the travel of many millions of people to a degree the world had never seen. WTH.

Very few know the actual name of the virus, per taxonomy - SARS-CoV-2. There is a genetic link to SARS. Chinese officials didn't want this official name used though. In China's view, SARS was a black eye. SARS-CoV-2 is a mouth-full though, and the CCP clearly didn't want a SARS reference, so COVID-19 was born. The hyper-sensitivity of the Chinese government hits many facets of our lives, corporate and Hollywood being the most popular I suppose...

As I recall, the Swine Flu (H1N1) began in Mexico, crossed into SD, and thrived in the US for about a year, April to April, I believe...

Ok, so this is the equities thread!

Have been layering-in at strategic points. AAPL most recently @230 (support/resistance price). QQQ and SPY also, working-in calls and put, selling to collect some high premium. Bought a QQQ put that did well on the way down. Should things get much worse, I have a standing order for AAPL around 140. Ouch, but I'll take it there. A couple orders above too..

---

I see we are now blaming China.

We have a President that believes these authoritarian dictator strongmen, are his friends and peers. He trusts them over our own intelligence agencies. Back in January our intelligence agencies were warning Trump that the Chinese were lying and here is Trump on January 24:

"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump tweeted Jan. 24. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

If you don't go into this expecting the Chinese government to lie you are doing it wrong. We aren't feeling the wrath of what the Chinese did. We are feeling the wrath of our own incompetent, misguided government. Trump's supporters can continue to point fingers elsewhere but I'd like to have a government that is proactive, responsible, and accountable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

---

First, if I were to be brief, and I won't, I'd simply say that I'm fine stating that we disagree with:

1. Our approach to investing and corresponding decisions and
2. Our take on China's culpability with respect to this virus

I will expound though, because I have time, and I find it important. Since you quoted me, a person you don't know, I'm not just "now" blaming China, namely its government, a very important distinction. I learned to be critical of the regime nearly two decades ago, first while combatting IP theft and counterfeit goods. The State involvement is undeniable and integral to China's rise; often at the expense of legitimate enterprises, not just US ones.

Prior, I remember exactly where I was when I learned of the events at Tiananmen Square (TS) at the newspaper stand across from the then "Caf Roma". It was one of my last days on the Cal campus as a student. I would later go-on to grad school and my thesis research took me to Asia where I lived for a while. Most of that time was in Taiwan, the period after martial law had end, under its first democratically elected President, Lee Teng-hui. The many stories and experiences will hopefully never leave me.

Suffice it to say, I had a sense Taiwan would flourish; and it was my hope that at some point there would be unification with the mainland, one where the Chinese people would share in the joys and freedoms of democracy. It was a time of hope as Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau were examples of what could be for the masses of Chinese. The USSR had rather suddenly dissolved too. I made it a point to visit HK and Macau before returning home.

Post TS, China took a hit and while the rest of the world's economies were accelerating, stock markets reflecting such, China's GDP was trending lower in the back-half of the 90s. I was onboard with Clinton's push for China join the World Trade Organization (WTO). It made sense and would hopefully be the lure for China to join the world's rules-based order, ideally paving the way for freedoms for the Chinese people.

It obviously didn't work-out that way. Being with my employer since early 2001, just a short time later, I unfortunately was one of the first to see the IP abuses, ones that would prove to be chronic, escalate and be pervasive across industries. Given my hopes, I was personally distraught that China was seemingly taking advantage of WTO membership, and on a massive scale. Legal action with resounding evidence didn't slow it down one bit.

Fast-forward to today, or more recently, the US Department of Justice indicted Huawei on multiple accounts. Within it was learned that Huawei memos were found indicating a bonus program exists to incentivize its employees to steal IP from competitors. Let that sink-in. This is China's darling enterprise, our Microsoft, Apple, AT&T all wrapped-up into one. Like many of China's corporation, it's an SOE (State-Owned Enterprise), and also with PLA (People's Liberation Army) connections. Top-down orders to steal, and at our expense. This is not unique to just Huawei of course.

With term limits removed, Xi is essentially an emperor, many likening him to Chairman Mao. The last few years, the control of the Chinese citizenry has ratcheted-up, unfortunately. It has become the largest surveillance state. During the virus outbreak in China, the pleas for freedom of speech, even if only temporary, were quickly squashed by the CCP. As I reflect back to the TS Massacre in 1989, there has been no progress on the freedom front. It's actually worse; and this is with the population as a whole, including the Han Chinese.

We know about Tibet and Honk Kong, fewer know about the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, the "re-education camps". By some accounts, a million or more are kept it these facilities. What happens within, what we've heard, is simply horrible. They are essentially concentration camps. This response is already long, so I'll refrain from several more paragraphs on this topic. I feel that it's a modern-day genocide unfolding in front of us.

Religious beliefs and freedoms are not tolerated and have gone backwards. Quite simply, you must believe the Party, nothing else. Temples, churches and places of worship, destroyed. They somehow might be conspiring against the Party. There have been and continue to be targeted attacks all faiths in China such as Muslims, Christians, Tibetan Buddhists, and Falun Gong. They even banned Santa Claus and celebrating Christmas. As much money as China spends on its military, it spends more on internal control measures, sadly. I'm not providing supporting URLs for these claims, but a search will find the same.

More recently, with China becoming an economic and military power with clout, such undesirable conduct is no longer relegated to within its borders only. Strong territorial disagreements exist and clashes happen with neighbors on a regular basis. Just a few days ago, 10-12 of their "fishing boats" rammed a Taiwanese cutter. As some might know, China took the unprecedented action to claim an entire sea its own. Their 9-dashed line essentially encircles this highly important waterway, even to the point of encroaching upon legal EEZs (Exclusive Economic Zone). If one recently purchased a map or globe, it likely has this 9-dash line on it. Many feel the SCS (South China Sea) will be a flashpoint for a major conflict.

The CCP does what it wishes, and controls what is said, the best it can. The ends justify the means. Job one is to suppress or censor, often the truth, if it doesn't fit the Party's endgame. There are tons of examples of this from banned books and websites to intermittent TV blackouts and online chats disappearing. Globally, the CCP has dictated terms to corporations on such matters of how they reference Taiwan on their websites, or what their employees speak about, like the HK protests. The NBA fiasco comes-to-mind as a recent example of this outward control and hyper-sensitivity. China's influence on Hollywood again goes toward the CCP's drive to portray their country in an exceedingly good light. There too they have threatened to not fund movies or release them in China that don't abide by their requests on what to add or remove. As some might know, the Top Gun sequel is upon us. There looks be such petty interference in that production. On this note, a major kudos to Richard Gere for calling-out China shenanigans years ago. He paid the price for doing so. I applaud him.

While I can continue on with what makes the CCP a bad actor and a legitimate global concern, I believe I've said enough to make that point. Today's CCP-lead China is the antithesis of all that we stand for, the western world as a whole. The human rights abuses alone should rally the world to take a more concerted stand. I failed to mention earlier the rampant organ-harvesting in China. Disgusting beyond belief. Again, Google is your friend.

So, from a young Cal student about to earn his degree from the best university in the world in early June 1989, full of hope for the Chinese people and their aspirations for freedom, now in my 50s, it still has not happened, at least yet. I have grown to be highly critical of the CCP. It and its military have a loyalty to the Party, not the people. It is written as such, and evident. The history of CCP's rule is littered with tragedy for the Chinese people. Any path to liberation looks to once again inflict more despair upon the population, sadly.

With that all said, I would have shared what I did above, regardless who is our president. It's not simply because it's convenient way to support the administration, or that I'm some avid Trump supporter. I believe I said before on this forum, I didn't vote for the guy and personally find him a blowhard. I often shake my head and cringe when he speaks. I am however not one of those who then automatically, reflexively, despises everything he says and does. Similarly, I can disagree with a forum member here like our beloved "calalumus", then in another thread star his post, which I have done BTW.

This Corona / SARS virus originated in China. There is clear evidence that Chinese authorities were aware in early Dec 2019. It seems they might have known earlier. Regardless, over weeks the CCP made a concerted effort to punish those who spoke-up about this disease, delete chats, vanish some, as opposed to listening and actively working to combat the virus. It was, and remains, all about the perception, again. Weeks lost, a month or longer, is huge, especially that time of year, the Chinese Lunar New Year. It was Axios who reported that if China would have taken action against the virus three weeks earlier, the spread would have been reduced 95%. It's math and science, not hocus pocus, or conjecture.

They didn't and failed to be forthright with the global community early-on too. A more responsible nation would have been more open, shared, solicited help. They did the opposite, refused assistance even. What they share with others becomes the starting point of action for those countries. Such was lacking. The virus had not just a head-of-steam in China, but elsewhere too as global air traffic continued for weeks, thanks to the CCP's decision to stifle the truth. If correct, daily there were about 10k travelers from China to the US. To think that China and the WHO voiced serious displeasure with the US and world over flight bans is unthinkable. At the same time such anger was expressed, large portions of China were under a massive lockdown with the same intent in-mind, to limit spread. It is beyond hypocritical.

A virus should never be about blame and culpability. If there were to be an exception, this is the one. Speaking for myself and others I know who feel the same about the CCP's gross negligence, criminal conduct even, felt it best to raise such concerns later during a post-mortem, not at this time. Then we hear wild assertions out of China that maybe the US military planted this virus. This was not simply some social media post, but from a government-sponsored news source, and also from CCP officials. The narrative control, deflection, is in full force.

Just because China's actions and lack of are extremely contributory to where we are today, that is not to say there were no other short-coming of course, including this administration, the federal government as a whole. Non-mutual exclusivity applies.

We have never encountered a disease that has demanded such a volume of testing. Per the CDC, for reference, we kicked-out 1,000 test kits for the H1N1 Swine Flu in 2009, and that took four months. We didn't need beds, masks and PPEs to this degree before either. We are in unchartered territory. I would have liked to have heard our president take ownership, even though this reality transcends administrations. The buck should always stops with those who are, and have been in charge.

As I recently told my dad, Trump missed yet another opportunity to show some humility by being even somewhat accountable for not recognizing the gaps in our readiness for such a challenge. I am not a fan of his communication style. He seems to believe in sweet-talking about world leaders, as if that then allows him leeway to then take contrary action. I learned early-on that this is his shtick and to ignore such niceties about his "friend" Xi, and the like. With him, and really anyone, ultimately what matters most is what is done. Like it or not, this administration has been a major thorn in the CCP's side. Given what I shared earlier, I find that a good thing, and a very long-time coming.

If I'm going to criticize what he said a few weeks back when he minimized concerns about this virus, and I did, it would be wrong of me to ignore when others like Fauci did the same. This is especially so when Trump leans on him for input. He is highly respected, globally, yet got it wrong. The input we had from intelligence reports, the limited amount from the CCCP, was not sufficient to take and make well-informed positions and later decisions, Fauci, Trump, others.

Since this is the Equities thread, futures are open, down 5%, circuit breakers trip, trading halted. Buckle-up, the fun continues!

---

I don't get it. Yes, the CCP suppressed info from their own people in December. An yes, we I agree, anything they report should should be viewed with extreme skepticism.

However, in January, Americans and other foreigners were evacuated from Wuhan/Hubei and Wuhan was placed on lockdown while China's emergency building of two of 16 reported new hospitals for COVID-19 victims was live-streamed and viewed by millions, with the time lapse shown on American news networks and worldwide. What more information about the potential impact of the virus did we need exactly? We knew it was huge in January, would more knowledge about the outbreak when it was smaller in December have made us take any action we have not taken in the last two months?