OaktownBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Ncsf said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

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He should be spurned. He's a POS. You should think so too!

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I just wish he was our POS.

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Why do I have the nagging feeling that Tosh is a defining figure in Cal's struggle between winning and being pristine? It appears that Tosh has not suffered at all from his defection, because his methods help programs win, as long as those programs go along with them. I hope that the Wilcox regime can bridge the gap.

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Sorry to hijack the thread, but completely off topic, I was wondering if I could get some advice from you guys.

I have this friend who is a photographer. He met this young lady who wanted to be a model but didn't really know how to do it. To the rest of us, she was kind of pretty, but he had an eye for this kind of thing and he saw something in her. They started dating and love blossomed, but also, with his guidance, this woman went from kind of pretty to drop dead gorgeous. Frankly, in the looks department, she was WAY out of his league. But with his skill as a photographer and her looks, they started climbing up the lower rungs of the fashion industry together.

Here's the problem. Beyond the looks, not all her traits were positive. She was kind of shallow. A little dumb. And, frankly, annoying. These traits intensified as her career progressed. Sometimes it lead to arguments. At one point, they had a really big argument. I have no idea what happened. Can't say who was right or wrong. Probably both, to be honest. Thought it blew over. However, later on she showed up at his door. She had been dating some other guy who was a photographer. She came to tell him it was over, that he was ugly, and that he smelled bad. She then drove off with his car, which he never got back. Over the next week, many of the models he worked with who were her friends went to work with the other guy.

He swore she was a piece of bleep and no matter what she looked like, nothing could make up for what she did. Some of our friends agreed. Some were of a mind that he was crazy because in their opinion, who cares what she acts like. "Have you SEEN her? You're never going to get a girl like that again" But then a couple years later he heard she left the other guy, and frankly, his resolve fell apart and he made a play for her again even though he had frankly little chance. And of course it didn't go anywhere.

Then she started dating this CEO. He was married, but man was he loaded. Like 9 figures loaded. She was very well taken care of. But at this point, my friend just didn't seem to be able to forget that he had this gorgeous girlfriend (and maybe he forgot or didn't fully appreciate her negative qualities). He kept getting in touch with her and frankly, I always thought she was laughing at him. But he kept going back telling her he may not be loaded, but HE'D marry her.

Then all of a sudden, much to my surprise she started talking about leaving the CEO and marrying my friend. It seemed pretty serious. Then the talk stopped. 6 months later, we found out the CEO divorced his wife and married her. She is completely set for life now. But this episode seems to have made him want her even more. To most of us, it is pretty clear she was using him as a power play on the CEO to make him jealous and get what she wanted. Now that it has worked, she is not only out of his league from a looks perspective, even if she some day breaks up with the CEO, with her money and looks there is simply no way she will ever come back to him.

It annoys me that this woman constantly has her ego stroked while she laughs her ass off at him. The thing is to me, even if she has grown up and wouldn't treat him like she did when she left again, even if maybe he deserved it some because of that argument they had, even if all those negative traits might not be really so bad, and even if none of it matters because she is so flipping gorgeous, SHE AIN'T COMING BACK! She has everything she wants in life. If she had really loved him, she's had opportunities to return. Why is a gorgeous woman with $50M in the bank going to come back to this guy? My feeling is that if she miraculously wants to come back someday, she will find him. He can worry about it then and stop humiliating himself in the meantime.

Meanwhile, some of our buddies are obsessed with this question of whether or not he should take her back based on her looks if he ever gets a chance, when 1. He has made it clear he will take her back (since he has already tried); and 2. That chance is not remotely presenting itself. But it is like they are obsessed with the question like someday another supermodel who rates a 10 is going to walk through his door and they need to know that he either will or won't ignore any bad traits and grab hold of her and marry her before she can change her mind.

So question: How do I get my friend and all my buds to get past this issue and stop what is becoming groveling? Hey, I'm not above groveling if there is a point to it, but not when there is no point.

Any way, again, excuse me for this completely off topic question.

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If she is really, really, smokin' hot, you will just need to accept the fact that some guys will be groveling until she is so old that she is no longer that hot.

You can't control what they think/do, but you can control the way you react to it.

Wait, is this a true story?

OaktownBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Ncsf said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

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He should be spurned. He's a POS. You should think so too!

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I just wish he was our POS.

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Why do I have the nagging feeling that Tosh is a defining figure in Cal's struggle between winning and being pristine? It appears that Tosh has not suffered at all from his defection, because his methods help programs win, as long as those programs go along with them. I hope that the Wilcox regime can bridge the gap.

---

Sorry to hijack the thread, but completely off topic, I was wondering if I could get some advice from you guys.

I have this friend who is a photographer. He met this young lady who wanted to be a model but didn't really know how to do it. To the rest of us, she was kind of pretty, but he had an eye for this kind of thing and he saw something in her. They started dating and love blossomed, but also, with his guidance, this woman went from kind of pretty to drop dead gorgeous. Frankly, in the looks department, she was WAY out of his league. But with his skill as a photographer and her looks, they started climbing up the lower rungs of the fashion industry together.

Here's the problem. Beyond the looks, not all her traits were positive. She was kind of shallow. A little dumb. And, frankly, annoying. These traits intensified as her career progressed. Sometimes it lead to arguments. At one point, they had a really big argument. I have no idea what happened. Can't say who was right or wrong. Probably both, to be honest. Thought it blew over. However, later on she showed up at his door. She had been dating some other guy who was a photographer. She came to tell him it was over, that he was ugly, and that he smelled bad. She then drove off with his car, which he never got back. Over the next week, many of the models he worked with who were her friends went to work with the other guy.

He swore she was a piece of bleep and no matter what she looked like, nothing could make up for what she did. Some of our friends agreed. Some were of a mind that he was crazy because in their opinion, who cares what she acts like. "Have you SEEN her? You're never going to get a girl like that again" But then a couple years later he heard she left the other guy, and frankly, his resolve fell apart and he made a play for her again even though he had frankly little chance. And of course it didn't go anywhere.

Then she started dating this CEO. He was married, but man was he loaded. Like 9 figures loaded. She was very well taken care of. But at this point, my friend just didn't seem to be able to forget that he had this gorgeous girlfriend (and maybe he forgot or didn't fully appreciate her negative qualities). He kept getting in touch with her and frankly, I always thought she was laughing at him. But he kept going back telling her he may not be loaded, but HE'D marry her.

Then all of a sudden, much to my surprise she started talking about leaving the CEO and marrying my friend. It seemed pretty serious. Then the talk stopped. 6 months later, we found out the CEO divorced his wife and married her. She is completely set for life now. But this episode seems to have made him want her even more. To most of us, it is pretty clear she was using him as a power play on the CEO to make him jealous and get what she wanted. Now that it has worked, she is not only out of his league from a looks perspective, even if she some day breaks up with the CEO, with her money and looks there is simply no way she will ever come back to him.

It annoys me that this woman constantly has her ego stroked while she laughs her ass off at him. The thing is to me, even if she has grown up and wouldn't treat him like she did when she left again, even if maybe he deserved it some because of that argument they had, even if all those negative traits might not be really so bad, and even if none of it matters because she is so flipping gorgeous, SHE AIN'T COMING BACK! She has everything she wants in life. If she had really loved him, she's had opportunities to return. Why is a gorgeous woman with $50M in the bank going to come back to this guy? My feeling is that if she miraculously wants to come back someday, she will find him. He can worry about it then and stop humiliating himself in the meantime.

Meanwhile, some of our buddies are obsessed with this question of whether or not he should take her back based on her looks if he ever gets a chance, when 1. He has made it clear he will take her back (since he has already tried); and 2. That chance is not remotely presenting itself. But it is like they are obsessed with the question like someday another supermodel who rates a 10 is going to walk through his door and they need to know that he either will or won't ignore any bad traits and grab hold of her and marry her before she can change her mind.

So question: How do I get my friend and all my buds to get past this issue and stop what is becoming groveling? Hey, I'm not above groveling if there is a point to it, but not when there is no point.

Any way, again, excuse me for this completely off topic question.

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classic. that sound we heard was you dropping the mic. well done sir. well done.

Are you saying Tosh is a REALLY hot chick who married a CEO?

It's too bad that authoring metaphors is not an NCAA Division I sport. Based on this post, we'd be as dominant in that as we are in rugby.

Good for tosh. He's a hell of a coach and recruiter. If cal was serious about football I'm sure he'd be here. Obviously he's somewhere that is more serious about football than anything else.

71Bear said:

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It is too bad because they have a head coach in place who is capable of winning. However, administration has tied his hands so he can't compete because he does not have the same tools that his peers are using.

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In what ways has Cal's admin "tied [Wilcox's] hands" or denied him the "same tools" his peers have?

What are the specifics of your statements?

I seriously doubt Wilcox would have agreed to come to Cal if any of your statements were true.

Sebastabear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

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It's heartwarming to hear of his personal loyalty to a coach who took a chance on him when no one else would. What a mensch.

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I smirked at that as well. I'm not saying someone wouldn't disagree with me, but if I were thinking of my own career, there is no way I would have taken either the Cal or Oregon jobs over the Alabama job. I make no claim that he didn't feel loyalty toward Saban, but the exact same decision could have been made based on self interest alone. (and as you imply, no loyalty was shown to a coach who promoted him from grad assistant when many questioned whether he was ready).

OaktownBear said:

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[I don't think doubling the salary we offered for Wilcox or either of our coordinators would have resulted in a significantly better staff or would have paid for itself in increased revenue.

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Oaktown, of course it would. And if we want to keep Wilcox and his staff we'll have to pony up. You get what you pay for. That's just reality.

OaktownBear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

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1. If being "serious" about football means Cal has to pay $1.5M for coordinators and then probably $5M for the head coach, maybe Cal needs to not be serious about football. And to be clear, I don't object to the salary on its face. I don't think investing that much in a staff will pay for itself.

2. Personally, I think that college football has hit the point where much like the Yankees and Dodgers have a different business model than small market baseball teams, teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, etc are going to have a different business model than "small market" college teams. Most teams, and Cal is certainly in this category, cannot make as much money as those schools, even if they were to achieve that level of success. It makes sense for the top 10 to get in bidding wars over coaches because they have the ROI. It does not make sense for the rest of us to start paying $4M-$5M for second level coaches. It is getting to the point where other than the traditional top programs, no one but the coaches are making any money. I think it is extremely questionable whether second level teams who are increasing their coordinator salary from $500K a couple years ago to $1M now to who knows where they stop have a sustainable business model. I don't think doubling the salary we offered for Wilcox or either of our coordinators would have resulted in a significantly better staff or would have paid for itself in increased revenue.

I think it is coming to the point where being "serious" about football is a euphemism for following the other lemmings off the cliff.

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That is why I think we will ultimately end up with a HC that loves Cal enough (and has already made enough) to accept "only" $1 million a year or so and then use the saved money to pay market rates for excellent assistant coaches.

It's probably going to take something like this.

socaliganbear said:

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calumnus said:

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OaktownBear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

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1. If being "serious" about football means Cal has to pay $1.5M for coordinators and then probably $5M for the head coach, maybe Cal needs to not be serious about football. And to be clear, I don't object to the salary on its face. I don't think investing that much in a staff will pay for itself.

2. Personally, I think that college football has hit the point where much like the Yankees and Dodgers have a different business model than small market baseball teams, teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, etc are going to have a different business model than "small market" college teams. Most teams, and Cal is certainly in this category, cannot make as much money as those schools, even if they were to achieve that level of success. It makes sense for the top 10 to get in bidding wars over coaches because they have the ROI. It does not make sense for the rest of us to start paying $4M-$5M for second level coaches. It is getting to the point where other than the traditional top programs, no one but the coaches are making any money. I think it is extremely questionable whether second level teams who are increasing their coordinator salary from $500K a couple years ago to $1M now to who knows where they stop have a sustainable business model. I don't think doubling the salary we offered for Wilcox or either of our coordinators would have resulted in a significantly better staff or would have paid for itself in increased revenue.

I think it is coming to the point where being "serious" about football is a euphemism for following the other lemmings off the cliff.

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That is why I think we will ultimately end up with a HC that loves Cal enough (and has already made enough) to accept "only" $1 million a year or so and then use the saved money to pay market rates for excellent assistant coaches.

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Good lord.

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It is not ideal and maybe I overstated it, but I dont think we are going to be able to pay market for top HCs AND top assistants. We can hire young first time head coaches and had success with Snyder, Tedford and hopefully Wilcox, but when they are successful and prove themselves (i.e. best case) you have to pay market to keep them. In Tedford's case, we paid top dollar to keep him, then had to go cheap on assistants to afford that which proved disastrous.

The cycle of hiring young HCs then losing them (Snyder, Mooch) or firing them (Theder, Kapp, Gilbertson, Holmoe and Ill add Dykes), is the history of Cal football mediocrity. We will continue on this wheel forever or until we find a successful HC who wants to be at Cal strongly enough that he will turn down much better money from other suitors AND not demand a major raise from Cal to do so. Maybe Wilcox will be that guy? I wouldnt expect him to do that but I am looking forward to him being really successful and finding out.

The only caveat to the above is if a really wealthy Cal alum donates a hige amoont of money earmarked for football coaching salaries, or we build homes for coaches in Strawberry Canyon or something.

Bear19 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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[I don't think doubling the salary we offered for Wilcox or either of our coordinators would have resulted in a significantly better staff or would have paid for itself in increased revenue.

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Oaktown, of course it would. And if we want to keep Wilcox and his staff we'll have to pony up. You get what you pay for. That's just reality.

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If you go through life just paying more because "you get what you pay for", you will be broke very fast. That is a platitude and you believe it is true in this case mostly because like many if not most fans, you want the most wins and you think that gives you the best chance and it ain't your money.

Cal paid more for Sonny Dykes. Did Cal get what they paid for? Because doubling the salary we offered Wilcox when we hired him would have gotten a very similar candidate to what Dykes was when we hired him.

You need to bring something more than this here. First, who are the coaches Cal could have gotten if it doubled the salary we paid for Wilcox and his coordinators? Are they better? I'd argue that you'd be paying mostly for name recognition and experience, but not necessarily quality. Doubling does not let us compete with Alabama. It let's us compete with mid range P-5 schools. How significantly does paying that much more raise the quality of Cal's coaches? Our coordinators are pretty good and our head coach's main flaw is he is unproven.

If these coaches are better, does that translate to more success AT CAL. And, if so, how much more success. How many wins does it buy us? And you have to account for the risk, because EVERYONE IS DOING THIS AND EVERYONE CAN'T WIN. Bottom line is paying more only increases the odds of success somewhat if it even does that.

And if the odds fall in your favor and we actually win more, does our revenue actually increase enough to cover it?

Certainly, if Wilcox wins, and that winning brings in more revenue - PAY HIM. But that is based on actual value not a pie in the sky evaluation.

The reason I stopped by tonight was to talk about the 2 Granite Bay guys coming to Cal. I am at every Granite Bay home game and many away games. I also attend a lot of practices. We had a really good season this year before getting our butts handed to us in the Nor Cal championship game by a very good Pittsburgh team. We looked tired against them and had played 3 more games than they did but I don't think it would have mattered.In my opinion Pittsburgh should have won their State Championship game.I want to mention Will for a second, if you guys can get a tape of our 2nd round section game against Antelope you will get to see what is in my opinion the best O line game ever played by a Grizzly offensive lineman. I can't remember exactly how many pancake blocks Will had but I know it was double figures. I have been going to Granite Bay games since the school opened in 1996 and Will is one of the very best we have ever produced. Go Bears

rswahn52 said:

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This is not so awesome. I have not stopped by for years and when I do (today) the 1st item am reading is Tosh. Really ? beam me up Scotty. Not my place to tell highly educated guys what to do but guys, get over it already. Throw your support behind Coach Wilcox and Go Bears.

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Some are here to try and win football games, some are here strictly for higher APR scores.

calumnus said:

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>That is why I think we will ultimately end up with a HC that loves Cal enough (and has already made enough) to accept "only" $1 million a year or so and then use the saved money to pay market rates for excellent assistant coaches.

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Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but the money we save by underpaying our football coaching staff isn't used to get other, "better" coaches. It's used to fund non-revenue sports like gymnastics. Well, OK so I guess in one sense that means it is used to get other "better" coaches. Just not for football.

Cal84 said:

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calumnus said:

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>That is why I think we will ultimately end up with a HC that loves Cal enough (and has already made enough) to accept "only" $1 million a year or so and then use the saved money to pay market rates for excellent assistant coaches.

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Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but the money we save by underpaying our football coaching staff isn't used to get other, "better" coaches. It's used to fund non-revenue sports like gymnastics. Well, OK so I guess in one sense that means it is used to get other "better" coaches. Just not for football.

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We have not added sports in years.

Tedford was the second highest paid HC in the league. He and Sandy were told several times that if they wanted more money for assistant coaches, they could readjust Tedford's contract to make it available. Instead Tedford got another raise/extension and continued to try to do it all himself with a revolving door of retreads (or the occaisional GA who emerged as a future coaching star--who left for more money, trashing the program in the process). My sense is Wilcox has a better handle on the need to attract and keep good people on his team.

OaktownBear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

---

1. If being "serious" about football means Cal has to pay $1.5M for coordinators and then probably $5M for the head coach, maybe Cal needs to not be serious about football. And to be clear, I don't object to the salary on its face. I don't think investing that much in a staff will pay for itself.

2. Personally, I think that college football has hit the point where much like the Yankees and Dodgers have a different business model than small market baseball teams, teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, etc are going to have a different business model than "small market" college teams. Most teams, and Cal is certainly in this category, cannot make as much money as those schools, even if they were to achieve that level of success. It makes sense for the top 10 to get in bidding wars over coaches because they have the ROI. It does not make sense for the rest of us to start paying $4M-$5M for second level coaches. It is getting to the point where other than the traditional top programs, no one but the coaches are making any money. I think it is extremely questionable whether second level teams who are increasing their coordinator salary from $500K a couple years ago to $1M now to who knows where they stop have a sustainable business model. I don't think doubling the salary we offered for Wilcox or either of our coordinators would have resulted in a significantly better staff or would have paid for itself in increased revenue.

I think it is coming to the point where being "serious" about football is a euphemism for following the other lemmings off the cliff.

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Point 2 is interesting. The question is whether the "small market teams" will at some point be able to demonstrate that the big market teams need them and, as such, a revenue sharing (or spending) model is required. Or maybe they can just "vote" it through the NCAA, though that entity is thoroughly corrupted by monied interests.

calumnus said:

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Cal84 said:

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calumnus said:

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>That is why I think we will ultimately end up with a HC that loves Cal enough (and has already made enough) to accept "only" $1 million a year or so and then use the saved money to pay market rates for excellent assistant coaches.

---

Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but the money we save by underpaying our football coaching staff isn't used to get other, "better" coaches. It's used to fund non-revenue sports like gymnastics. Well, OK so I guess in one sense that means it is used to get other "better" coaches. Just not for football.

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>We have not added sports in years.

Who is talking about adding sports? What do you think pays the bills for the EXISTING non-revenue sports? Two things and two things only. Subsidies from the UC Berkeley academic budget and football revenues.

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I believe the most recent money drain added was sand volleyball in 2011.

$and volleyball

OaktownBear said:

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Certainly, if Wilcox wins, and that winning brings in more revenue - PAY HIM. But that is based on actual value not a pie in the sky evaluation.

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We'll be too late to "pay him" after he starts winning. There are a lot of programs that will pay him what we should be paying him now.

Don't forget Oregon tried to get him after this last 5-7 season. The reason he's still at Cal is because he declined to interview. Certainly Oregon thought Willcox had already proven himself to be worth pursuing.

It is foolish to think he'll wait for another one or two years after this season, when there are programs that will pay him minimum what we should be paying him now. The fact is, in 2018, you have to get ahead of the pay curve if you want to keep your coaching staff from bolting. By the time you decide they're worth an increase they'll already be gone.

And it is much much much more expensive to keep churning coaches than it is to pay standard 2018 D1 football coaching packages just to save a few bucks. (By a "few bucks" I mean an additional $1-2M annually for a good HC, and an additional $500K-800K annually for each assistant coach. In 2018, that's the minimum needed just to get to a decent D1 income package level).

Imo & in Oregon's opinion, Wilcox has already "proven" himself to at least get the Pac-12 average income package, now. We should pay the man, now, before another program does.

Bear19 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Certainly, if Wilcox wins, and that winning brings in more revenue - PAY HIM. But that is based on actual value not a pie in the sky evaluation.

---

We'll be too late to "pay him" after he starts winning. There are a lot of programs that will pay him what we should be paying him now.

Don't forget Oregon tried to get him after this last 5-7 season. The reason he's still at Cal is because he declined to interview. Certainly Oregon thought Willcox had already proven himself to be worth pursuing.

It is foolish to think he'll wait for another one or two years after this season, when there are programs that will pay him minimum what we should be paying him now. The fact is, in 2018, you have to get ahead of the pay curve if you want to keep your coaching staff from bolting. By the time you decide they're worth an increase they'll already be gone.

And it is much much much more expensive to keep churning coaches than it is to pay standard 2018 D1 football coaching packages just to save a few bucks. (By a "few bucks" I mean an additional $1-2M annually for a good HC, and an additional $500K-800K annually for each assistant coach. In 2018, that's the minimum needed just to get to a decent D1 income package level).

Imo & in Oregon's opinion, Wilcox has already "proven" himself to at least get the Pac-12 average income package, now. We should pay the man, now, before another program does.

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There's no proof Oregon tried to interview him. On the Oregon side they will say he wasn't in consideration. It just depends on what side you are on and how it's spun.

I could have sworn I heard JW say he declined an interview with people from uo

chazzed said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

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Gee, I can't think of any good reason why he was spurned.

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Benedict Arnold was one of the most competent generals in the Continental Army under G. Washington.
But I doubt that Washington would have hired him back after that West Point incident.

Bear19 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Certainly, if Wilcox wins, and that winning brings in more revenue - PAY HIM. But that is based on actual value not a pie in the sky evaluation.

---

We'll be too late to "pay him" after he starts winning. There are a lot of programs that will pay him what we should be paying him now.

Don't forget Oregon tried to get him after this last 5-7 season. The reason he's still at Cal is because he declined to interview. Certainly Oregon thought Willcox had already proven himself to be worth pursuing.

It is foolish to think he'll wait for another one or two years after this season, when there are programs that will pay him minimum what we should be paying him now. The fact is, in 2018, you have to get ahead of the pay curve if you want to keep your coaching staff from bolting. By the time you decide they're worth an increase they'll already be gone.

And it is much much much more expensive to keep churning coaches than it is to pay standard 2018 D1 football coaching packages just to save a few bucks. (By a "few bucks" I mean an additional $1-2M annually for a good HC, and an additional $500K-800K annually for each assistant coach. In 2018, that's the minimum needed just to get to a decent D1 income package level).

Imo & in Oregon's opinion, Wilcox has already "proven" himself to at least get the Pac-12 average income package, now. We should pay the man, now, before another program does.

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A lot of people said the same way thing after Dykes went 7-5. I like Wilcox, but there is no evidence that he is sought after at this point. If he gets an offer we can counter. In fact, saving money now helps make a bigger offer later. You can sign a 20 year contract today and if somebody offers enough tomorrow, he's gone. I know you would be paying him too much, because he is still here at Cal's price.

You don't pay coaches on dreams. And you definitely don't pay because your fan base runs scared that a coach will abandon them. You pay on performance.

I very much like Wilcox, but this is a risky business. He is still as likely to fail as not. 2-7 does not merit a fat raise. A fact that I doubt Wilcox disagrees with. He got a nice little bump to say we like what he is doing so far. That is enough.

Even if he is being underpaid ?

going4roses said:

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Even if he is being underpaid ?

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Based on what is he being underpaid? The years of head coaching experience? The 5-7, 2-7 conference record? The mid tier recruiting class? The massive number of high salary offers he has on the table from others? The droves of fans buying season tickets right now? Frankly, there was more of a reason to pay Cuonzo after one year with him having brought in a top recruiting class and in hindsight that would have been massively stupid. Now we are all thrilled that Missouri bailed us out.

His pay right now is in line with the other conference coaches when you factor in his lack of record and experience. He hasn't demonstrated anything yet other than he isn't an idiot, he brought in good assistants, and he did a good job with culture. That is worth a small bump in pay. If he continues to show improvement and gets a winning record in conference next year, give him a bigger raise and extension. If not, no. You don't pay based on hope.

The whole point of hiring a coordinator like Wilcox is you are buying low and hoping the stock soars. You don't pass on a nice investment where you put in $24K with a promise of $25K at the end of the year, so you can buy a $1 scratcher, scratch off the first square and say "Ooooh!!!! Cherries!!!! I like cherries!!!! I'll pay $24K to finish scratching off the rest of this ticket!"

You guys seem to think that paying more than his market value insulates you later on. If we pay $3M when his market value is $1.5M, and next year his market value is $4M, that $3M is almost irrelevant. His agent doesn't say, well, if we look at this over a 2 year period including last year, his total value was $5.5M and you are paying $6M so we'll stay. His agent says, thanks for the $3M, but now I can get $4M. You gotta pay $4M.

I like the Wilcox hire a lot (in large part because it is cost effective vs. the moronic paying more for a middling coach with experience deal that Sandy did). I like Wilcox a lot. I have high hopes for him. I also think he understands (like Tedford did) that in coming to Cal the deal is you will get paid for performance.

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MoragaBear
5:00p, 2/7/18
Staff
If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

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Bear19

In reply to Alkiadt 5:35p, 1/28/18
V

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Alkiadt said:
Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

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Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

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There you go, Bear19. It's not "nonsense"