calumnus said:

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iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

Bear19 said:

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calumnus said:

---

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are the real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

Wouldn't it be rather foolish to actually believe anything he would say since he's already proven to be an accomplished liar? Of course, from everything I've read here he has not the slightest inclination to come back, hat-in-hand or otherwise. Why would he? He's a bigger fish in the biggest pond.

---

Exactly, while our fan base sanctimoniously virtue signals about the whole incident, the reality is Tosh's career has rebounded to the point of being out of Cal's league.

Any of you going to swallow your pride in admitting an embarrassing mistake in order to go back to a lesser-profile, lesser paying job that you already had left??? Anybody???

iwantwinners said:

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calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

iwantwinners said:

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calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

Forget everything else, it is the manner in which left. He recruited for UW while on Cal's last official visit with Shaq Thompson, leaving Cal no more visits. He told everyone else Cal had comittments from and was tectuiting not to sign with Cal, even if they didnt sign with UW. Recruits have verfied this. Who does that, especially to your alma mater, even if Sark pays you to?

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

Agree, it is all a moot point. He is not coming to Cal--that boat has sailed.

He is just another hogh paid coach with a slimy reputation in the SEC, all out of our price range. if he considers Cal just another job, Cal fans certainly dont see him as a "Cal guy" who would stay even if offered more money elsewhere. It is opposite--he is seen as a traitor. If that HC job opens up (and hopefully it doesnt) donors might pony up big money to get someone like Ron Rivera, a proven winner at the highest level and a true Cal guy. The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

I know one SEC coach that did not f over Cal

calumnus said:

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iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

---

Well, didn't Moraga say Cal offered over 800k to Tosh to be DC when Wilcox came on board. That's ~300k more than we are paying DeRyuter, or were Kaufman. More than any coordinator at Cal, ever. Especially on the same side of the ball as the HC. So in Cal's world, that is definitely opening up the checkbooks.

calumnus said:

---

Forget everything else, it is the manner in which left. He recruited for UW while on Cal's last official visit with Shaq Thompson, leaving Cal no more visits. He told everyone else Cal had commitments from and was recruiting not to sign with Cal, even if they didn't sign with UW. Recruits have verified this. Who does that, especially to your alma mater, even if Sark pays you to?

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

Agree, it is all a moot point. He is not coming to Cal--that boat has sailed.

He is just another hogh paid coach with a slimy reputation in the SEC, all out of our price range. if he considers Cal just another job, Cal fans certainly don't see him as a "Cal guy" who would stay even if offered more money elsewhere. It is opposite--he is seen as a traitor. If that HC job opens up (and hopefully it doesn't) donors might pony up big money to get someone like Ron Rivera, a proven winner at the highest level and a true Cal guy. The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

---

Good summary & accurate statement of what lupoi did.

calumnus said:

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iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

---

If you haven't felt the touch of a woman in close to 60 years, you do it.

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

Forget everything else, it is the manner in which left. He recruited for UW while on Cal's last official visit with Shaq Thompson, leaving Cal no more visits. He told everyone else Cal had comittments from and was tectuiting not to sign with Cal, even if they didnt sign with UW. Recruits have verfied this. Who does that, especially to your alma mater, even if Sark pays you to?

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

Agree, it is all a moot point. He is not coming to Cal--that boat has sailed.

He is just another hogh paid coach with a slimy reputation in the SEC, all out of our price range. if he considers Cal just another job, Cal fans certainly dont see him as a "Cal guy" who would stay even if offered more money elsewhere. It is opposite--he is seen as a traitor. If that HC job opens up (and hopefully it doesnt) donors might pony up big money to get someone like Ron Rivera, a proven winner at the highest level and a true Cal guy. The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

---

If this is true and if it is true that Wilcox tried to get him back to Cal do you have a big problem with our HC?

ColoradoBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

---

Well, didn't Moraga say Cal offered over 800k to Tosh to be DC when Wilcox came on board. That's ~300k more than we are paying DeRyuter, or were Kaufman. More than any coordinator at Cal, ever. Especially on the same side of the ball as the HC. So in Cal's world, that is definitely opening up the checkbooks.

---

I am almost positive that we were in "discussions" with Tosh while Dykes was still coach (maybe 1-2 weeks before his firing). This was reported here by a reliable poster with inside info, who said that Tosh was very interested in coming back to Cal at some point, but that the timing turned out not to be right.

Wilcox, after his hiring, may also have considered bringing Tosh back, I dunno.

socaliganbear said:

---

Sure, but what does Saban really know? BTW this means he'll be a P5 HC within 3 years.

---

Fine. As long as its somewhere else. He can find out what it's like to run the show. And maybe he'll be lucky enough to find out that JT wasn't such a bad boss after all. And what it's like to have assistants stab you in the back. Karmic retribution is best served cold and well-aged.

ya, the timing was right before his next raise, strangely enough.

82gradDLSdad said:

---

If this is true and if it is true that Wilcox tried to get him back to Cal do you have a big problem with our HC?

---

I do - this tarnishes Wilcox's judgement in my view. Maybe he asked about it & was told to go ahead (wouldn't surprise me). But since it didn't happen, I can afford to just let it go.

71Bear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Ncsf said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

---

He should be spurned. He's a POS. You should think so too!

---

I just wish he was our POS.

---

Why do I have the nagging feeling that Tosh is a defining figure in Cal's struggle between winning and being pristine? It appears that Tosh has not suffered at all from his defection, because his methods help programs win, as long as those programs go along with them. I hope that the Wilcox regime can bridge the gap.

---

No one is pristine. Not Cal, not Stanford, not Northwestern, no one....

You simply need to invest and follow the rules. Cal fails miserably at the former and does very well re: the latter.

I read an article about how Alabama manages recruiting. When Saban was hired, he developed an incredibly innovative approach that utilizes student interns who are interested in a career in football administration. They do all the "grunt" work. In turn, this has significantly eased the burden on ithe assistant coaches allowing them to focus on coaching.

What innovative approaches has Cal developed to improve their recruiting effort? It takes commitment at the highest level to put together a plan and provide the resources to win. The sad fact is that a Cal does not care. If they did, there would be an AD in place who would clear all obstacles to create a winning environment. Until there is a true commitment, Cal will never be competitive for championships on a regular basis.

It is too bad because they have a head coach in place who is capable of winning. However, administration has tied his hands so he can't compete because he does not have the same tools that his peers are using.

---

What innovative approaches has Cal developed to improve recruiting? Played like a lower tier P12 team that flaunts its academics and plays night games in an empty stadium.

ColoradoBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

---

Well, didn't Moraga say Cal offered over 800k to Tosh to be DC when Wilcox came on board. That's ~300k more than we are paying DeRyuter, or were Kaufman. More than any coordinator at Cal, ever. Especially on the same side of the ball as the HC. So in Cal's world, that is definitely opening up the checkbooks.

---

So Cal opened their checkbook, but $800,000, a promotion and working for his alma mater and being close to family wasn't enough? And this tells what about him? Probably helped him get more money from Alabama though.

ayetee11 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

---

I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

---

Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

---

I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

---

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

---

If you haven't felt the touch of a woman in close to 60 years, you do it.

---

So even during the years she was with you you did not "feel the touch of a woman" but after she wrecked your car, burned your house, killed your dog and left you for your rival you are so desperate you would go further into debt to give her $1,000,000 to come back to you?

calumnus said:

---

If you haven't felt the touch of a woman in close to 60 years, you do it.

So even during the years she was with you you did not "feel the touch of a woman" but after she wrecked your car, burned your house, killed your dog and left you for your rival you are so desperate you would go further into debt to give her $1,000,000 to come back to you?

---

Helen caused a massive 10 year war (Greece vs. Troy, which Greece won). I personally draw the line at hurting animals. Do that and I'm done, I don't care how good she looks.

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

iwantwinners said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ayetee11 said:

---

s a If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

---

Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

---

do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

---

You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

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I'm sorry, it's absurd to think Tosh's departure led to the "demise" of Cal. This wreaks of sour grapes. We lost a few top recruits. It sucked. Tedford's recruiting tapered off at the same time he was having a hard time adapting to an improving conference.

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Of course, the decline began at least as far back as 2007, it was symptomatic that Tedford came to rely on Tosh's recruiting as much as he did in a futile effort to turn things around. I am just saying, there are a lot of fans and big donors that believe, whether true or not, that Tosh is the villain in the story and that it played a role in Tedford's demise. Moreover, it isnt just Tosh vs Tedford, it is what Tosh did to his alma mater. He is not just any good DC, he has history here.

I am sure that if he really was to come back, all that would be addressed, one way or another. As I said, obviously he is only coming back if he wants to be back at Cal, because he is going to be making SEC money and wouldnt at Cal, so that willingness to make a personal financial sacrifice for his alma mater would be 90% of it right there. If he demanded market rates, it would do nothing to disuade those that believe he only cares about himslf, sold us out for money (and a boat) and would sell us out for money again.

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I read a lot of sanctimony here.

Big donors believe Tosh is the villain and led the demise of the Tedford era whether it's true OR not? Says a lot about our "big donors".

He will never come back, so his haters can rest easy. His market value and status has surpassed Cal already. Bama DC > Cal HC (at present time).

"If he demanded market rates..."? Who doesn't? Your insinuation that demanding market rates = one cares about one's self...that's probably true, but it doesn't translate moral inferiority or a character flaw. Only the manner in which he left does.

"sell us out for more money" Every coach who takes a better job is "selling out" I guess. Again, it holds no weight.

Yes Tosh would "sell Cal out" for more money and a better HC/DC job. So would virtually everybody else. So will Wilcox if he has success and Cal doesn't pay, or even if they did. Your criticisms are not unique to Tosh.

Here's a hypothetical:

Bama dominates the next three years, Saban is not retiring or going anywhere, Wilcox for whatever reason is out, either fired or moved on to a better HC job. Bama has had the #1 rated defense, Tosh getting all the credit. Reports say Tosh is being interviewed and considered for our HC position. Report follows that Cal has offered Tosh the HC job.

You say what to that? Praying to God he doesn't take it? If he does, you Hold your nose or ban Cal football from your life?

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Forget everything else, it is the manner in which left. He recruited for UW while on Cal's last official visit with Shaq Thompson, leaving Cal no more visits. He told everyone else Cal had comittments from and was tectuiting not to sign with Cal, even if they didnt sign with UW. Recruits have verfied this. Who does that, especially to your alma mater, even if Sark pays you to?

If your girlfriend left you for someone else, but on the way out wrecked your car, torched your house and killed your dog--you would take her back without even an apology and consider yourself "lucky" to have her back? And you think that is being a "winner"?

Agree, it is all a moot point. He is not coming to Cal--that boat has sailed.

He is just another hogh paid coach with a slimy reputation in the SEC, all out of our price range. if he considers Cal just another job, Cal fans certainly dont see him as a "Cal guy" who would stay even if offered more money elsewhere. It is opposite--he is seen as a traitor. If that HC job opens up (and hopefully it doesnt) donors might pony up big money to get someone like Ron Rivera, a proven winner at the highest level and a true Cal guy. The checkbooks will not be opening for Tosh, sorry to disappoint you and anyone related to him.

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I like the hypothetical. If you are a screenwriter you could probably make a great movie out of it. "Death wish -- Cal Style". Or "John Wick 3".