LACalFan said:

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MoragaBear
5:00p, 2/7/18
Staff
If Cal wasn't serious about football, they wouldn't have offered him over 800k last year.

Oregon offered him well over 1m (reports were as high as 1.5 m) but he felt loyalty to Saban for taking him in as a recruiting assistant when he was a pariah after SC had to drop him because of his UW recruiting scandal then bringing him up through the ranks.

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Quote:

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Bear19

In reply to Alkiadt 5:35p, 1/28/18
V

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Alkiadt said:
Wilcox literally tried to hire Tosh...
Tedford was not easy to work for.

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Aw, poor little Lying Snake. Tedford was hard to work for!! Did Lying Snake get his poor little feelings hurt? You think that justifies what Lying Snake did?

NEWS FLASH: It doesn't.

And exactly how do you know Wilcox tried to hire Lying Snake? Stop with this nonsense. Tedford wants nothing to do with Lying Snake. And neither does any coach who has the slightest inkling of truthfulness or integrity.

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There you go, Bear19. It's not "nonsense"

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Well, MoragaBear knows what he's talking about. So I have to defer to his knowledge of these matters. Imo Lupoi may be like the Czar of Russia - may the Lord bless & keep Lupoi, far away from us.

I was torn, but ultimately on board knowing that Wilcox wanted him. It's looking like that window has closed and might never open again anyways

Question to those in the "Hell No" group.

Can you admit his talents are what Cal football needs?

If no on him then who else ?

going4roses said:

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Question to those in the "Hell No" group.

Can you admit his talents are what Cal football needs?

If no on him then who else ?

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What are his talents exactly? Madden on XBox? Skirting the rules? Bringing in 4 star players that have no interest in academics and will drop our APR to the lowest in the PAC-12 and one of the lowest in the country?

Are you saying the members of the current staff are not effective recruiters so that is our biggest need?

Or do you think Tosh's football knowledge and defensive coaching is better than Wilcox's?

Recruiting is a needed and highly desired skill set in CFB. The thing is, Tosh screwed his alma mater in his chosen profession. In any other industry that sort of stuff might get you black-balled, but not in CFB. They call it competition, and thus sleaze and shady dealings are acceptable.

I don't think time and maturity solves the situation for Tosh to come back to Cal. So if a coach wants to hire him at Cal, I'm not against it...BUT you have to have something to keep him on a short leash and from acting badly or illegally. Something like a contract clause that says bad or illegal behavior results in restitution, like the value of his contract and a fine.

Of course he'd probably never sign it but you absolutely need to be upfront and state how he screwed Cal before and put something in place to keep it from happening again. It's either that, or a Godfather like talk with enforcement.

So we'll get Joe Kapp to sit on a sofa on Tightwad Hill and Tosh will visit him. As they talk all the crap is aired and Joe says, "the bear does not quit the bear does not die...are you in brother Tosh?" If he says yes, you shove him down the hill. If he says no...you shove him down the hill. After you pick him up at the bottom you tell him, you f*** up and that shove happens on top of Sather Tower. So Tosh, fly straight and we're good. Screw up and you know the deal.

I suggested that before.
If TL was to come back after clearing the air in some meaningful way. Would that suffice.

going4roses said:

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I suggested that before.
If TL was to come back after clearing the air in some meaningful way. Would that suffice.

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That would be critical for me. He would need to explain and be believably remorseful about what happened. If he came back for a pay cut it would add some credibility that he really does love his alma mater. Anything else just comes off as BS.

going4roses said:

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Question to those in the "Hell No" group.

Can you admit his talents are what Cal football needs?

If no on him then who else ?

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At this point these questions seem to be moot: After telling Wilcox he has no interest in coming back to Cal, he's become the DC at Alabama.

It's a fantasy that he will return to Cal. Pretty clear that ain't going to happen.

Perhaps they maybe moot to you , but I'm curious and i'd like to see a remedy to the fractured fan base.

Hence the last question? Names of coaches that could fit that bill

KoreAmBear said:

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Worst topic ever.

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Yes, and beat to gdamn death.

calumnus said:

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going4roses said:

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I suggested that before.
If TL was to come back after clearing the air in some meaningful way. Would that suffice.

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That would be critical for me. He would need to explain and be believably remorseful about what happened. If he came back for a pay cut it would add some credibility that he really does love his alma mater. Anything else just comes off as BS.

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The guy can sell ice cubes to Eskimos.

"... biggest mistake I ever made..."
" ... in my mind, I had been wronged, but it was me who was wrong..."
" ... now I want to try and make it right by getting us to the Rose Bowl..."
[voice cracking, watery eyes, etc.]

What's more, it might even be sincere, to an extent.

The pay cut? Now that's a tough one. Not sure he will come back here as a DC now. He's priced out of the market. Of course, before he could be a HC at a top SEC school, he'd need to have some HC-ing experience. Hmmm... Not gonna happen, though, because (hopefully) Wilcox will have the job locked up for the next twenty years.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Worst topic ever.

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Yes, and beat to gdamn death.

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No way! There should ALWAYS be one thread here about either Tosh, Aaron Rodgers, or should-we-call-ourselves-Berkeley.

It's like comfort food!

I see this as largely symptomatic -- our obsession with Aaron Rodgers and Tosh and Tedford harkens primarily to the only time in recent memory where we had overall success. While this is understandable, it's also highly limiting because we're always trying to reach for a version of the program that is gone rather than trying to build a new one with reasonable expectations.

Big C said:

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NYCGOBEARS said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Worst topic ever.

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Yes, and beat to gdamn death.

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No way! There should ALWAYS be one thread here about either Tosh, Aaron Rodgers, or should-we-call-ourselves-Berkeley.

It's like comfort food!

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If that's the case, where's the La Burrita thread?

NYCGOBEARS said:

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Big C said:

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NYCGOBEARS said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Worst topic ever.

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Yes, and beat to gdamn death.

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No way! There should ALWAYS be one thread here about either Tosh, Aaron Rodgers, or should-we-call-ourselves-Berkeley.

It's like comfort food!

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If that's the case, where's the La Burrita thread?

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I hope it got moved to OT! Those #^&%-ing OTs are ruining my life!

Oaktown. Your message is true. Unfortunately.
The only good news is that Cal doesn't play conference games against Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama and Georgia.
USC is the only flagship football program in the conference and they often find a way to screw things up.

It's funny reading post from people saying they need a public apology or explanation. He doesn't need to explain anything to anyone. He's the one that can help in the win column, not any posters. If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

ayetee11 said:

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It's funny reading post from people saying they need a public apology or explanation. He doesn't need to explain anything to anyone. He's the one that can help in the win column, not any posters. If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Don't come with facts to a feelings party lol

ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

calumnus said:

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ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

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I think Wilcox will win, I think Wilcox and Tosh would make Cal a powerhouse.

tim94501 said:

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ayetee11 said:

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It's funny reading post from people saying they need a public apology or explanation. He doesn't need to explain anything to anyone. He's the one that can help in the win column, not any posters. If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Don't come with facts to a feelings party lol

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we believe that TL may be a good coach vs. we believe TL is a *#%! Lying Snake.

If both beliefs are true we have: TL is a good coach vs. TL is a *#%! Lying Snake.

For me that is enough to say "hell no" to TL.
Let's move on. He is not the only good coach out there.

Let's not forget the folktale of the maiden who takes in and cares for a sick and hungry snake. When the snake recovers, he bites the maiden. As she is dying she asks, "Is this the way you repay my kindness?" The snake answers, "you knew I was a snake when you took me in. This is what I do."

OaktownBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Ncsf said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

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He should be spurned. He's a POS. You should think so too!

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I just wish he was our POS.

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Why do I have the nagging feeling that Tosh is a defining figure in Cal's struggle between winning and being pristine? It appears that Tosh has not suffered at all from his defection, because his methods help programs win, as long as those programs go along with them. I hope that the Wilcox regime can bridge the gap.

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Sorry to hijack the thread, but completely off topic, I was wondering if I could get some advice from you guys.

I have this friend who is a photographer. He met this young lady who wanted to be a model but didn't really know how to do it. To the rest of us, she was kind of pretty, but he had an eye for this kind of thing and he saw something in her. They started dating and love blossomed, but also, with his guidance, this woman went from kind of pretty to drop dead gorgeous. Frankly, in the looks department, she was WAY out of his league. But with his skill as a photographer and her looks, they started climbing up the lower rungs of the fashion industry together.

Here's the problem. Beyond the looks, not all her traits were positive. She was kind of shallow. A little dumb. And, frankly, annoying. These traits intensified as her career progressed. Sometimes it lead to arguments. At one point, they had a really big argument. I have no idea what happened. Can't say who was right or wrong. Probably both, to be honest. Thought it blew over. However, later on she showed up at his door. She had been dating some other guy who was a photographer. She came to tell him it was over, that he was ugly, and that he smelled bad. She then drove off with his car, which he never got back. Over the next week, many of the models he worked with who were her friends went to work with the other guy.

He swore she was a piece of bleep and no matter what she looked like, nothing could make up for what she did. Some of our friends agreed. Some were of a mind that he was crazy because in their opinion, who cares what she acts like. "Have you SEEN her? You're never going to get a girl like that again" But then a couple years later he heard she left the other guy, and frankly, his resolve fell apart and he made a play for her again even though he had frankly little chance. And of course it didn't go anywhere.

Then she started dating this CEO. He was married, but man was he loaded. Like 9 figures loaded. She was very well taken care of. But at this point, my friend just didn't seem to be able to forget that he had this gorgeous girlfriend (and maybe he forgot or didn't fully appreciate her negative qualities). He kept getting in touch with her and frankly, I always thought she was laughing at him. But he kept going back telling her he may not be loaded, but HE'D marry her.

Then all of a sudden, much to my surprise she started talking about leaving the CEO and marrying my friend. It seemed pretty serious. Then the talk stopped. 6 months later, we found out the CEO divorced his wife and married her. She is completely set for life now. But this episode seems to have made him want her even more. To most of us, it is pretty clear she was using him as a power play on the CEO to make him jealous and get what she wanted. Now that it has worked, she is not only out of his league from a looks perspective, even if she some day breaks up with the CEO, with her money and looks there is simply no way she will ever come back to him.

It annoys me that this woman constantly has her ego stroked while she laughs her ass off at him. The thing is to me, even if she has grown up and wouldn't treat him like she did when she left again, even if maybe he deserved it some because of that argument they had, even if all those negative traits might not be really so bad, and even if none of it matters because she is so flipping gorgeous, SHE AIN'T COMING BACK! She has everything she wants in life. If she had really loved him, she's had opportunities to return. Why is a gorgeous woman with $50M in the bank going to come back to this guy? My feeling is that if she miraculously wants to come back someday, she will find him. He can worry about it then and stop humiliating himself in the meantime.

Meanwhile, some of our buddies are obsessed with this question of whether or not he should take her back based on her looks if he ever gets a chance, when 1. He has made it clear he will take her back (since he has already tried); and 2. That chance is not remotely presenting itself. But it is like they are obsessed with the question like someday another supermodel who rates a 10 is going to walk through his door and they need to know that he either will or won't ignore any bad traits and grab hold of her and marry her before she can change her mind.

So question: How do I get my friend and all my buds to get past this issue and stop what is becoming groveling? Hey, I'm not above groveling if there is a point to it, but not when there is no point.

Any way, again, excuse me for this completely off topic question.

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That took a lot of work and deserves some acknowledgement! Well done.

Polodad said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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Ncsf said:

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packawana said:

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I have to say, there's nothing more Cal than a guy who used to work for us and became spurned by the fanbase for years becoming the next Nick Saban.

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He should be spurned. He's a POS. You should think so too!

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I just wish he was our POS.

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Why do I have the nagging feeling that Tosh is a defining figure in Cal's struggle between winning and being pristine? It appears that Tosh has not suffered at all from his defection, because his methods help programs win, as long as those programs go along with them. I hope that the Wilcox regime can bridge the gap.

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Sorry to hijack the thread, but completely off topic, I was wondering if I could get some advice from you guys.

I have this friend who is a photographer. He met this young lady who wanted to be a model but didn't really know how to do it. To the rest of us, she was kind of pretty, but he had an eye for this kind of thing and he saw something in her. They started dating and love blossomed, but also, with his guidance, this woman went from kind of pretty to drop dead gorgeous. Frankly, in the looks department, she was WAY out of his league. But with his skill as a photographer and her looks, they started climbing up the lower rungs of the fashion industry together.

Here's the problem. Beyond the looks, not all her traits were positive. She was kind of shallow. A little dumb. And, frankly, annoying. These traits intensified as her career progressed. Sometimes it lead to arguments. At one point, they had a really big argument. I have no idea what happened. Can't say who was right or wrong. Probably both, to be honest. Thought it blew over. However, later on she showed up at his door. She had been dating some other guy who was a photographer. She came to tell him it was over, that he was ugly, and that he smelled bad. She then drove off with his car, which he never got back. Over the next week, many of the models he worked with who were her friends went to work with the other guy.

He swore she was a piece of bleep and no matter what she looked like, nothing could make up for what she did. Some of our friends agreed. Some were of a mind that he was crazy because in their opinion, who cares what she acts like. "Have you SEEN her? You're never going to get a girl like that again" But then a couple years later he heard she left the other guy, and frankly, his resolve fell apart and he made a play for her again even though he had frankly little chance. And of course it didn't go anywhere.

Then she started dating this CEO. He was married, but man was he loaded. Like 9 figures loaded. She was very well taken care of. But at this point, my friend just didn't seem to be able to forget that he had this gorgeous girlfriend (and maybe he forgot or didn't fully appreciate her negative qualities). He kept getting in touch with her and frankly, I always thought she was laughing at him. But he kept going back telling her he may not be loaded, but HE'D marry her.

Then all of a sudden, much to my surprise she started talking about leaving the CEO and marrying my friend. It seemed pretty serious. Then the talk stopped. 6 months later, we found out the CEO divorced his wife and married her. She is completely set for life now. But this episode seems to have made him want her even more. To most of us, it is pretty clear she was using him as a power play on the CEO to make him jealous and get what she wanted. Now that it has worked, she is not only out of his league from a looks perspective, even if she some day breaks up with the CEO, with her money and looks there is simply no way she will ever come back to him.

It annoys me that this woman constantly has her ego stroked while she laughs her ass off at him. The thing is to me, even if she has grown up and wouldn't treat him like she did when she left again, even if maybe he deserved it some because of that argument they had, even if all those negative traits might not be really so bad, and even if none of it matters because she is so flipping gorgeous, SHE AIN'T COMING BACK! She has everything she wants in life. If she had really loved him, she's had opportunities to return. Why is a gorgeous woman with $50M in the bank going to come back to this guy? My feeling is that if she miraculously wants to come back someday, she will find him. He can worry about it then and stop humiliating himself in the meantime.

Meanwhile, some of our buddies are obsessed with this question of whether or not he should take her back based on her looks if he ever gets a chance, when 1. He has made it clear he will take her back (since he has already tried); and 2. That chance is not remotely presenting itself. But it is like they are obsessed with the question like someday another supermodel who rates a 10 is going to walk through his door and they need to know that he either will or won't ignore any bad traits and grab hold of her and marry her before she can change her mind.

So question: How do I get my friend and all my buds to get past this issue and stop what is becoming groveling? Hey, I'm not above groveling if there is a point to it, but not when there is no point.

Any way, again, excuse me for this completely off topic question.

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That took a lot of work and deserves some acknowledgement! Well done.

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Very good story. BTW the girl's name wouldn't be Trish Lupoi would it???

GivemTheAxe said:

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tim94501 said:

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ayetee11 said:

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It's funny reading post from people saying they need a public apology or explanation. He doesn't need to explain anything to anyone. He's the one that can help in the win column, not any posters. If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Don't come with facts to a feelings party lol

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we believe that TL may be a good coach vs. we believe TL is a *#%! Lying Snake.

If both beliefs are true we have: TL is a good coach vs. TL is a *#%! Lying Snake.

For me that is enough to say "hell no" to TL.
Let's move on. He is not the only good coach out there.

Let's not forget the folktale of the maiden who takes in and cares for a sick and hungry snake. When the snake recovers, he bites the maiden. As she is dying she asks, "Is this the way you repay my kindness?" The snake answers, "you knew I was a snake when you took me in. This is what I do."

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No, he's not the only good coach out there. He's just a great coach who was able to land multiple 5 Star kids while at Cal. Now he's the DC of the top program in the country. Stealing kids from our backyard and he's an alum.

OaktownBear said:

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Sorry to hijack the thread, but completely off topic, I was wondering if I could get some advice from you guys.

I have this friend who is a photographer...

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Late to this thread. Just here to pay respects to Oaktown's brilliance.

tim94501 said:

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Good for tosh. He's a hell of a coach and recruiter. If cal was serious about football I'm sure he'd be here. Obviously he's somewhere that is more serious about football than anything else.

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Saw an ESPN recruiting class review the other day. They were dumbfounded that Alabama dropped all the way to #9, and were crunched in recruiting by Georgia (ESPN'S #1 ranked recruiting class). I guess the Savior of Cal Football didn't do such a great job for them this year, especially since Alabama had done much better in recruiting before he got there. One thing about CEOs - one wrinkle develops on the hot model wife where it shows, and buh-bye. . .

OaktownBear said:

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I have this friend who is a photographer. He met this young lady. . .

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Well done, Oaktown. Kudos.

The comedy

calumnus said:

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ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

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do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

ayetee11 said:

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calumnus said:

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ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

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I think Wilcox will win, I think Wilcox and Tosh would make Cal a powerhouse.

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We were not this sanguine about Tedford after a 7-5 opening season after a 1-11 Holmoe season. Maybe not even after 2003 when we beat Va Tech in a bowl when Rodgers lit them up for 50 pts. I'm cautiously optimistic about Wilcox, but I acknowledge it's not rational, it's all intuition. Wilcox was a successful DC for multiple P5 programs and never sniffed a HC interview, much less a job. And after 5-7 (which did have some positive signs) we all seem to be waxing poetic on the guy. I don't think Wilcox will be a bust, and I think he will have some success, it's just the optimism bordering on certainty that, if questioned, instigates vitriol, is if not irrational, certainly non-rational.

iwantwinners said:

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ayetee11 said:

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calumnus said:

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ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

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I think Wilcox will win, I think Wilcox and Tosh would make Cal a powerhouse.

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We were not this sanguine about Tedford after a 7-5 opening season after a 1-11 Holmoe season. Maybe not even after 2003 when we beat Va Tech in a bowl when Rodgers lit them up for 50 pts. I'm cautiously optimistic about Wilcox, but I acknowledge it's not rational, it's all intuition. Wilcox was a successful DC for multiple P5 programs and never sniffed a HC interview, much less a job. And after 5-7 (which did have some positive signs) we all seem to be waxing poetic on the guy. I don't think Wilcox will be a bust, and I think he will have some success, it's just the optimism bordering on certainty that, if questioned, instigates vitriol, is if not irrational, certainly non-rational.

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We were increadibly sanguine about Tedford and that 7-5 starting with the 70-22 demolishing of Baylor, then beating #15 Michigan State 46-22 in East Lansing, beat #12 UW in Seattle, beat #25 ASU in Tempe 55-38 and beat UCLA and took home the Axe beating a Stanford team two years after making the Rose Bowl 30-7 along with the reclamation of Kyle Boller tirning him from bust to 1st round pick, all after our only win the previous year was against winless Rutgers.

iwantwinners said:

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calumnus said:

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ayetee11 said:

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If the athletic department decides they want to win and fans can't get behind it, oh well.

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Great, but without the fans, how will the Athletic Department pay his salary?

Do you seriously think he is the only coach who can produce wins at Cal? He is our only choice if we want to win?

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do you really think there are that many deluded, sanctimonious fans that will stop spending money on a winner because Tosh is on the staff? 90% of these kinds of folks are probably on these boards.

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You have created a false dilemma, one that you already admit is not true--Tosh as the only way we can recruit and win.

Even if Tosh is the greatest DC on the planet (and he hasnt been one yet) and we need him because Wilcox and Co are ineffective recruiters without him, the winning that only he can bring would be later, at least a year or two after he is hired.

The point is many of the fans and big donors (yes many on this board) know the story of how Tosh destroyed what was set to be one of the best recruiting classes of all time at Cal, his alma mater, and he did it while in our employ. Not just trying to get players to go to his new employer, UW, but anywhere but Cal--with players going to UCLA, Oregon etc. Eventually leading to Cal's continued demise, Tedford's health continuing to decline, his firing, Sonny Dykes, etc.

Now a lot of the above may not be true, but it is what a lot of fans and big donors believe, and we need them onboard. We cannot afford to lose any.

However, I have not heard Tosh's side of the story. I have not heard if he has any remorse over the way he handled himself and the impact he had on the program. If he were to come back, I would think that would need to be addressed--some reporter will ask him in the very least. Of course, that then brings up Wilcox's role in the whole thing as well....

The other thing I mentioned, the pay cut, appears to be de facto--if he came back to Cal he would be making less than at Alabama or another SEC program, so that alone would prove some love for his alma mater, which in the end is more convincing than anything he might say. If we would have to match Alabama's pay, first we couldnt, and we would be better off hiring the best OC in the business anyway. Wilcox has the defensive side pretty well handled.

So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are tge real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

GivemTheAxe said:

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Let's not forget the folktale of the maiden who takes in and cares for a sick and hungry snake. When the snake recovers, he bites the maiden. As she is dying she asks, "Is this the way you repay my kindness?" The snake answers, "you knew I was a snake when you took me in. This is what I do."

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I'm thinking the naive maiden is the sister of the supermodel wife of the ceo. The last thing the maiden heard was her supermodel sister telling her "told you so!"

calumnus said:

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So, if Tosh wants to come back, I am pretty sure the conditions I laid out would be met automatically--Tosh would be asked and have to say something about what happened to the press, fans, donors---Im sure he would spin it well--maybe Tedford and Sark are the real villains and by necessity he would have taken a pay cut. All forgiven, right?

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Wouldn't it be rather foolish to actually believe anything he would say since he's already proven to be an accomplished liar? Of course, from everything I've read here he has not the slightest inclination to come back, hat-in-hand or otherwise. Why would he? He's a bigger fish in the biggest pond.