The thing that concerns me the most about the offense is not that it sucks ... I can accept that we lost our WR talent and are playing a redshirt freshman QB. But, there has been absolutely no improvement over the course of the year. None - thenoffense was as bad against Colorado as it was against UNC. What's up with that? The online returned mostly everyone but they are worse. The wide receivers and qb play is worse than last year. The running backs, worse. TEs were supposed to be a strength but they have shown no ability to catch the ball.

It is what it is and I don't expect any true freshman to come in next year and change anything. Nor have I seen anything from the freshman this year that warrants excitement for next year.

Who are the folks that redshirted this year and that people think will help out our offense the most next year?

fat_slice said:

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The thing that concerns me the most about the offense is not that it sucks ... I can accept that we lost our WR talent and are playing a redshirt freshman QB. But, there has been absolutely no improvement over the course of the year. None - thenoffense was as bad against Colorado as it was against UNC. What's up with that? The online returned mostly everyone but they are worse. The wide receivers and qb play is worse than last year. The running backs, worse. TEs were supposed to be a strength but they have shown no ability to catch the ball.

It is what it is and I don't expect any true freshman to come in next year and change anything. Nor have I seen anything from the freshman this year that warrants excitement for next year.

Who are the folks that redshirted this year and that people think will help out our offense the most next year?

---

Dancy at RB
McIlwain at WR
Johnny Adams at RB
Castles at TE
And maybe true freshmen
Bradford at WR?
Polk at WR?
Archer at TE?
Mojarro at TE?

I don't claim to have a deep understanding of what I should be looking for in a high school player, but I think Malik Bradford is going to be good http://www.hudl.com/v/28NPfW I believe Castles will be much more athletic than he current tight ends. I think Adams looked very good in the clips I saw from camp and hopefully he will recover.

I worry most about the offensive line. The pass blocking seems really bad to me.

Sluggo

I think our OL got worse because we've lost some starters and are now playing with backups.

chalcidbear said:

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I think our OL got worse because we've lost some starters and are now playing with backups.

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Agree. They weren't the best line in the Pac-12 to start with. Given some of the recruits we're bringing in, that will change for the better, and the offense will improve dramatically as a result.

chalcidbear said:

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I think our OL got worse because we've lost some starters and are now playing with backups.

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Can someone please summarize who is hurt on the OL? Mekari, the starter at LT. Saffell seems not to be on the depth chart; he started at RG I believe. Who else?

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Can someone please summarize who is hurt on the OL?

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I think you just did.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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chalcidbear said:

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I think our OL got worse because we've lost some starters and are now playing with backups.

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Can someone please summarize who is hurt on the OL? Mekari, the starter at LT. Saffell seems not to be on the depth chart; he started at RG I believe. Who else?

---

those two were probably our best OL players.
Losing Mekari for the season is a tough one to recover from.
Colorado immediately took advantage on that side.

I was just curious about how bad our offense has been and how good or defense has been, scoring wise. It turns out the O hasn't been that bad. The D has been really good, as you might have guessed.

Through 11 games, the offense has scored 27 TD and 10 FG. Assuming an even 7 points per TD, that is 219 points in 11 games, or just about 20 points per game scored. Granted, some scoring drives were short fields set up by the D. Also, I couldn't find the points allowed by our offense through pick sixes, scoops and scores, or safeties, which I would like to net out. I think Garbers has thrown at least 1 pick six but I can't remember if there have been others. Any help appreciated to refine this analysis.

On defense, we have given up 23 TD and 10 FG. That would be a total of 191 points. But the D has scored a safety (USC) plus pick sixes from Drayden, Weaver, Goode, hicks and Davis, I believe, for a total of roughly 37 points, which nets out to 154 given up by the D, or 14 ppg if you count defensive scores as negative points. That's pretty damn good. Did I miss any pick sixes or any scoop n scores?

Bear19 said:

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chalcidbear said:

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I think our OL got worse because we've lost some starters and are now playing with backups.

---

Agree. They weren't the best line in the Pac-12 to start with. Given some of the recruits we're bringing in, that will change for the better, and the offense will improve dramatically as a result.

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Aren't a lot of these guys part of the young OL that blocked for the #1 offense in the PAC-12 just 2 years ago? Most on this board were optimistic our offense would improve because of the experience of our OL.

A big issue is predictably running on 1st leading to third and long. Then the D tees off and with slow receivers running vanilla patterns, pass protection is impossible. Fortunately Garbers can run, though the slide short has been an issue.

Most just want to look for excuses. Mekari was out recently and out O has been terrible all year.

I think only Ooms and Pat started and of them only Ooms is still on the line.

calumnus said:

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fat_slice said:

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The thing that concerns me the most about the offense is not that it sucks ... I can accept that we lost our WR talent and are playing a redshirt freshman QB. But, there has been absolutely no improvement over the course of the year. None - thenoffense was as bad against Colorado as it was against UNC. What's up with that? The online returned mostly everyone but they are worse. The wide receivers and qb play is worse than last year. The running backs, worse. TEs were supposed to be a strength but they have shown no ability to catch the ball.

It is what it is and I don't expect any true freshman to come in next year and change anything. Nor have I seen anything from the freshman this year that warrants excitement for next year.

Who are the folks that redshirted this year and that people think will help out our offense the most next year?

---

Dancy at RB
McIlwain at WR
Johnny Adams at RB
Castles at TE
And maybe true freshmen
Bradford at WR?
Polk at WR?
Archer at TE?
Mojarro at TE?

---

The percentages usually come out that one true frosh out of a big class will surprise (for the better), but few saw it coming (from him). For next year, I don't think that one guy is with us yet. Maybe Mettauer.

Same for the current frosh. Maybe Castles.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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I was just curious about how bad our offense has been and how good or defense has been, scoring wise. It turns out the O hasn't been that bad. The D has been really good, as you might have guessed.

Through 11 games, the offense has scored 27 TD and 10 FG. Assuming an even 7 points per TD, that is 219 points in 11 games, or just about 20 points per game scored. Granted, some scoring drives were short fields set up by the D. Also, I couldn't find the points allowed by our offense through pick sixes, scoops and scores, or safeties, which I would like to net out. I think Garbers has thrown at least 1 pick six but I can't remember if there have been others. Any help appreciated to refine this analysis.

On defense, we have given up 23 TD and 10 FG. That would be a total of 191 points. But the D has scored a safety (USC) plus pick sixes from Drayden, Weaver, Goode, hicks and Davis, I believe, for a total of roughly 37 points, which nets out to 154 given up by the D, or 14 ppg if you count defensive scores as negative points. That's pretty damn good. Did I miss any pick sixes or any scoop n scores?

---

By your math, we're averaging 20 points per game. That seemed absolutely dreadful to me, so I google'd it, and lo and behold, the stat heads have us pegged as the worst Power 5 offense in the country. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

As you noted though, our defense limits to ~17 points per game. Sounds amazing. Stat geeks have us as a top twenty defense in the country. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef

So, basically, our offense is trash, but our defense is so good that most teams become even more trash than we are. If we had an even *average* offense to back up this defense, like Arizona's or UCLA's, we'd be a nine or ten win team.

LOL, the scary thing is that progression from last year is considered quite favorable progress by the Cal fan base. The even scarier thing, is they are correct in their assessment. Double LOL.

Cal84 said:

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LOL, the scary thing is that progression from last year is considered quite favorable progress by the Cal fan base. The even scarier thing, is they are correct in their assessment. Double LOL.

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I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think anyone here has suggested the Cal offense progressed. If anything, the sentiments here seem to be that (1) offense seems to have regressed from last year or (2) the offense has not noticeably moved either way since last year. Similarly, while I cannot be 100% certain of this, I highly suspect that the bast majority of the Cal fan base is in agreement with at least one of those two sentiments above. In short, I highly suspect few, if anyone, in the Cal fan base thinks the Cal offense improved this year relative to last year.

The TEAM has improved because the defense improved. The offense itself has not, though I acknowledge there was a lot of unusual turnover at skill positions, QB especially.

Honestly, with modern football you cannot expect your TE to be a major weapon, he's more of a complimentary nice to have asset.

Where a TE body can make a difference is split out wide as a size matchup, which is something that we haven't done since Spavital was here with Hudson (think the SDSU game TD).

killa22 said:

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Honestly, with modern football you cannot expect your TE to be a major weapon, he's more of a complimentary nice to have asset.

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I'm sure Bill Belichick and Rob Gronkowski would love it if you could teach thm about how the TE position is not a major weapon in modern football.

Seriously, though, you're right. The Pats are the exception to the rule.

killa22 said:

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Honestly, with modern football you cannot expect your TE to be a major weapon, he's more of a complimentary nice to have asset.

Where a TE body can make a difference is split out wide as a size matchup, which is something that we haven't done since Spavital was here with Hudson (think the SDSU game TD).

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Gronk kittle ertz ebron etc would disagree

Our TEs drop more passes than any group i can remember.

tim94501 said:

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killa22 said:

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Honestly, with modern football you cannot expect your TE to be a major weapon, he's more of a complimentary nice to have asset.

Where a TE body can make a difference is split out wide as a size matchup, which is something that we haven't done since Spavital was here with Hudson (think the SDSU game TD).

---

Gronk kittle ertz ebron etc would disagree

Our TEs drop more passes than any group i can remember.

---

In Killa's defense, I think he meant more modern college football.

Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

I don't think the 3&outs are intentional, but we definitely go conservative. It seems like most are of the opinion that Beau is just a moron. I see it as more of a choice. And considering we have won a lot of close games, a choice that is hard to disagree with.

As for McMorris, I would like to see him open up holes with a full head of steam. I do not hate him at the wing though. He blocks above average on runs to his side; however, he absolutely destroys guys when he blocks to the weak side.

Player Personnel will not solve the problem. People are far too willing to make excuses for Baldwin hiring the right coach DOES get big results, even with the same personnel.

Are people on this board going to tell me with a straight face that Oregon State has more talent on offense than Cal? The talent level at OSU is far below Cal's and has been for years. Yet their offence is considerably better than Cal's, thanks to a new coach.

People need to stop making excuses for Baldwin and hoping players will bail him out. Just accept he's a big disappointment and not getting the job done. The first step to making positive change is to admit when things aren't going well and accept that change needs to happen, instead of digging in one's heels and doubling down on a bad decision.

I had high hopes for Baldwin. I don't fault Wilcox for hiring him, it seemed like a good hire. But it didn't work out - good managers don't get emotionally attached to their decisions when they don't pan out, they correct mistakes and move forward. Replacing Baldwin is a no-brainer - tons of upside and virtually zero downside. Why fight it?

I will say "with a straight face" that Cal's offensive personnel now isn't necessarily better than OSU's. There QB is certainly better, and they have a better RB. Oh, and by the way, we beat them like a drum in their own house...even with our "terrible" OC.

All of the above isn't to say that BB hasn't been a disappointment, just that it isn't quite as cut and dried as you make it seem.

calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

I like McMorris. He's a great blocker, and he's been effective in short-yardage situations catching the ball. But he's good in those situations because we don't go to that well a lot. He's not a big play guy. I don't understand the fascination on this board with getting him the ball more. He gets the ball a perfect amount.

tim94501 said:

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killa22 said:

---

Honestly, with modern football you cannot expect your TE to be a major weapon, he's more of a complimentary nice to have asset.

Where a TE body can make a difference is split out wide as a size matchup, which is something that we haven't done since Spavital was here with Hudson (think the SDSU game TD).

---

Gronk kittle ertz ebron etc would disagree

Our TEs drop more passes than any group i can remember.

---

I also don't recall a year when the TEs dropped more passes

UrsaMajor said:

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I will say "with a straight face" that Cal's offensive personnel now isn't necessarily better than OSU's. There QB is certainly better, and they have a better RB. Oh, and by the way, we beat them like a drum in their own house...even with our "terrible" OC.

All of the above isn't to say that BB hasn't been a disappointment, just that it isn't quite as cut and dried as you make it seem.

---

One good game doesn't a season make. Our offense has been awful most of the season, putrid in some games. Beau Baldwin may or may not be responsible for our invisible offense, but he's the OC and he must provide workable solutions. Otherwise, why are we paying him?

Didn't we try to do that early in the season, but Hudson kept dropping passes?

GMP said:

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calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

I like McMorris. He's a great blocker, and he's been effective in short-yardage situations catching the ball. But he's good in those situations because we don't go to that well a lot. He's not a big play guy. I don't understand the fascination on this board with getting him the ball more. He gets the ball a perfect amount.

---

McMorris has 5 catches this year in 11 games. Esssentially one catch every other game. I don't think he has any drops. Of those 5 catches, 2 were for TDs.
He is a weapon, but we aren't using him. I am surprised you think 5 times is "enough."

Quick passes to McMorris off playaction should have been a staple of our offense and could help us get first downs and drive downfield. Rather than a rare "surprise," regular use would help open up the run as defenses start to defend him. A pump fake to him could draw in the safety and help a receiver get open deep.

He is incredibly effective as a blocker on the edge. He is a shot putter, so his shoves put linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties on their butts and allow our runners to get to the next level. I am sad he is a senior, I wish we used him more.

GMP said:

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calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

---

Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

I like McMorris. He's a great blocker, and he's been effective in short-yardage situations catching the ball. But he's good in those situations because we don't go to that well a lot. He's not a big play guy. I don't understand the fascination on this board with getting him the ball more. He gets the ball a perfect amount.

---

I can see the argument that he should be used more as a lead blocker. But I also wonder if his weight might be part of the reason he doesn't play more.

sycasey said:

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GMP said:

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calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

---

Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

I like McMorris. He's a great blocker, and he's been effective in short-yardage situations catching the ball. But he's good in those situations because we don't go to that well a lot. He's not a big play guy. I don't understand the fascination on this board with getting him the ball more. He gets the ball a perfect amount.

---

I can see the argument that he should be used more as a lead blocker. But I also wonder if his weight might be part of the reason he doesn't play more.

---

He played both ways at Mater Dei (was an All-American and Defensive POY as a DL) was MVP of the Mater Dei basketball team, and of course Is an elite shot putter and discus thrower. He once returned a fumble 68 yards for a TD. He can handle being in for more than a few plays and 5 catches on the year as a FB.

calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

a lot of people think we are under utilizing McMorris as a runner. maybe we are. maybe we aren't. I'm not sure.

but I think we have effectively used him as a blocker, where he often pancakes his man. it looks to me that he is the lead blocker frequently when we really need a play.

and as a receiver, he seems to be used as our secret weapon, meaning he is not expected to be a receiver, but at some key moments in the game he is and therefore is often wide open (TD was good example)

so I am asking what your issue is regarding how we might be using McMorris as a blocker or receiver?

HoopDreams said:

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calumnus said:

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socalBear23 said:

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Here is my take on the O. It starts with what is the goal? In the beginning he clearly wanted to run the ball, use the read option and win a low scoring game. Beating UNC and BYU with 24 and 21 points. The Oregon game was not going to be a win no matter what we did.

But then it seemed like Baldwin got cocky with BM. We should have beat UA 17-10 but instead lose. Not sure what the hell happened against the bruins but 5 TO's is always awesome. But that is when I believe Wilcox stepped in and changed the goal of the offense from moderately aggressive to complete "don't **** it up mode". And we start winning again.

It is killing us that Noa and Vic and Duncan have been hurt a ton this year. I would bet Laird was injured early as well. Some of the young receivers just need time to develop. Chad Hansen could not even get on the field, then became all conference...

---

Obviously we can't have turnovers. However all the three and outs are not much better and cannot be intentional.

Has McMorris ever dropped a pass? How many times has he used his shotputting skills to pancake defenders? How often do we run behind him or throw to him? What percentage of plays is he even on the field?

---

a lot of people think we are under utilizing McMorris as a runner. maybe we are. maybe we aren't. I'm not sure.

but I think we have effectively used him as a blocker, where he often pancakes his man. it looks to me that he is the lead blocker frequently when we really need a play.

and as a receiver, he seems to be used as our secret weapon, meaning he is not expected to be a receiver, but at some key moments in the game he is and therefore is often wide open (TD was good example)

so I am asking what your issue is regarding how we might be using McMorris as a blocker or receiver?

---

He has only 5 catches in 11 games.

If you look at the plays we throw to him, it is usually after we fake to Laird up the middle. Of course he is wide open. I don't think that needs to be a secret "trick" play used once, every other game. I think that if a play works you should keep going to it until it isn't open any more, because that will mean the defense has stopped crashing on Laird. Then go to Laird up the middle. Mix it up. Keep the defense guessing, not able to get a jump on you.

I also like him as a blocker on the edge where he can pancake guys. Teams are putting 9 in the box so using him as a lead runner up the middle often ends up as a huge mass with no opening for Laird. If he is on the edge a staple play can be running Laird off tackle with him sealing, or Garbers around the end on the keeper after faking Laird up the middle.