5 more years!!!!!

15,332 Views | 112 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Blueblood
BearlyCareAnymore
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boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.
Sebastabear
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JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
sycasey
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OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.
Not sure why anyone would disagree with this. It's true, Wilcox's salary is now roughly in line with the middle of Pac-12 coaches. His results thus far are also in that ballpark.
71Bear
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Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
No surprise there... The beauty of Wilcox is that he is the right coach in the right place at the right time. There is a reason Calis known as "the graveyard for football coaches". It is no picnic to coach at a place like Cal. Fit is a critical component and finding a guy who fits is difficult.

We are damn lucky to have a guy like JW in charge. He was the perfect choice and he is now proving why....
LunchTime
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.
Man. What a post.

Wilcox fits that perfectly. LoL
CRBear
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.
I don't spend a ton of time on the free boards but perhaps I should. This is the greatest post I've ever seen.
boredom
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OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.

My analysis is that a guy who has only proven he can get a team to mediocre shouldn't have a $16M buyout which would be far and away the largest in the conference. I have no idea what his actual buyout is, that's why I asked about it. I'm not anti-Wilcox. I'm just aware Cal has very limited financial resources and there's a risk that this is as good as it gets with Wilcox and we're stuck paying a lot of money for mediocrity. If donors agreed to pay his salary while he's here, great. If he fails I don't want to end up with another Wyking hire (woefully under-qualified allegedly due to money constraints). I suspect the ticket price increase has to do with paying Wilcox as well.

Also, I would say he's actually now being paid for more than his accomplishments. Looking in conference:
- He's now tied with Chip Kelly and Chippy is a far more accomplished coach (hopefully past his prime but we'll find out).
- He's a bit behind Mike Leach who got Wazzu to 10-2.
- He's ahead of Helton (we finished ahead of USC and we're paying our coach more! who would've thought that'd happen). Helton's record 2 years in was 21-6 including a Rose Bowl win. Not saying Helton is a good coach, just has achieved more (though with better resources).

source: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
okaydo
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.

It would be funny if Wilcox had some wild side personal life....but if he were to have a wild side personal life, Cal is the best place because he'll be anonymous most places, especially in San Francisco -- or even El Cerrito. He doesn't have the scrutiny of a small college town.
Yogi58
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.
I was wondering where this was going and was going to admonish you for watching that chicken soup for the soul type stuff, but the last line made me laugh out loud. Well done.
Yogi58
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Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Sebastabear
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Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program.
Yogi58
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boredom said:


My analysis is that a guy who has only proven he can get a team to mediocre shouldn't have a $16M buyout which would be far and away the largest in the conference.
Not sure how you know the buyouts of all the other coaches, but no one should have a $16M buyout. That's just irresponsible and too much like the contracts Sandy handed out. We don't know the buyout situation yet.
Yogi58
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Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program.
TheSouseFamily
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The Helton salary you're referencing is a 2016 number from his first year and before he signed a 5 year contract extension back in Feb. The current numbers are private until SC releases tax return for this fiscal year (in about a year and a half). But I suspect there is basically zero chance that Helton makes that now.
Goobear
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Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program

Not sure why you are doing this Yogi....Certain people are just more plugged in then others.....Has nothing to do with showing off....
Another Bear
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Cal got the coordinator to HC discount...and now it's time to pay up because Wilcox is good and can do the job. If you don't pay him, he'll be poached like Bruce Snyder. Look, if you can turn around Cal, you will gets looks and calls because everyone knows that's not an easy deal. I'm glad the AD and donors figured that one out.
NYCGOBEARS
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Goobear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program

Not sure why you are doing this Yogi....Certain people are just more plugged in then others.....Has nothing to do with showing off....

Agreed. Yogi, stop being butt hurt.
okaydo
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Another Bear said:

Cal got the coordinator to HC discount...and now it's time to pay up because Wilcox is good and can do the job. If you don't pay him, he'll be poached like Bruce Snyder. Look, if you can turn around Cal, you will gets looks and calls because everyone knows that's not an easy deal. I'm glad the AD and donors figured that one out.

Wilcox was getting national recognition...Cal had to pay up.




BearlyCareAnymore
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boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.

My analysis is that a guy who has only proven he can get a team to mediocre shouldn't have a $16M buyout which would be far and away the largest in the conference. I have no idea what his actual buyout is, that's why I asked about it. I'm not anti-Wilcox. I'm just aware Cal has very limited financial resources and there's a risk that this is as good as it gets with Wilcox and we're stuck paying a lot of money for mediocrity. If donors agreed to pay his salary while he's here, great. If he fails I don't want to end up with another Wyking hire (woefully under-qualified allegedly due to money constraints). I suspect the ticket price increase has to do with paying Wilcox as well.

Also, I would say he's actually now being paid for more than his accomplishments. Looking in conference:
- He's now tied with Chip Kelly and Chippy is a far more accomplished coach (hopefully past his prime but we'll find out).
- He's a bit behind Mike Leach who got Wazzu to 10-2.
- He's ahead of Helton (we finished ahead of USC and we're paying our coach more! who would've thought that'd happen). Helton's record 2 years in was 21-6 including a Rose Bowl win. Not saying Helton is a good coach, just has achieved more (though with better resources).

source: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
1. I don't think he should have a $16M buyout either, but since there is no indication that he does, I might as well say I don't think he should have a $1billion dollar buyout.

2. Your source is misleading in context you are using it because it is giving one year of salary and you are comparing it to the average salary over a ramped up period of time. Chip Kelly was given a 5 year $23M contract + bonuses. The $3.3M for Kelly was his first year in a contract that averages $4.6M. The contract Wilcox just got is reported to be getting is 5 years $16.25M + bonuses. That is almost certainly not going to be $3.25M each year but will grow with the life of the contract. He's not making close to Kelly's salary. Leach's contract is $19.25M over 5 or $3.85M. Not really close either.
calumnus
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MilleniaBear said:

Tedford had a great agent. I still think it was him that was feeding the "Tedford to UW" rumor with the description of the boiler room offers being discussed by UW for JT.

It is what coaches do. Either when they think they can cash in on success or think they may get canned. People celebrated Tedford for it and hated Dykes for it only because they loved Tedford and hated Dykes for reasons other than looking at other jobs.
Blueblood
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"My doctor put me on a new
IV drip combination so that I
might last five more years wherein
I might get to see Cal go to
the Rose Bowl...funny?....I don't
think that I can feel my legs
anymore?"
BearGoggles
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OaktownBear said:



This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.
This post is spot on. The only thing I would add is that there will be no loyalty or continuity if: (a) you consistently underpay your employees; and/or (b) you only pay competitively after your competition tries to steal your best talent. At Cal, we have learned those things belatedly and the hard way. Imagine how Wilcox and his staff feel given Cal's commitment to pay competitively and acknowledge positive results. Compare that to how Tosh Lupoi felt when he left and lit a fire on the way out the door. Not defending what Tosh did, but employees tend do those things when they perceive mistreatment.

In terms of the buyout, I suspect Cal has learned its lesson on those issues well. Both in terms of what Cal would be obligated to pay and what the coaches will pay if they leave. Knowlton seems to know what he's doing.
BearGoggles
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NYCGOBEARS said:

Goobear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program

Not sure why you are doing this Yogi....Certain people are just more plugged in then others.....Has nothing to do with showing off....

Agreed. Yogi, stop being butt hurt.
Yogi - if it bothers you, I suggest you use the ignore feature to block all posts by Sebastabear. That way you won't be bothered by all his posts with legitimate inside information. The rest of us can enjoy and appreciate the perspective and insight he brings and the low key manner in which it is presented.
calumnus
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GivemTheAxe said:

okaydo said:

Today is December 6...Think of all the head coaching hires that already have taken place.

Now imagining hiring a coach on Jan. 13.

That's how undervalued Wilcox was...now after what he has done, he's valued appropriately.

Wilcox is 12-12 through 2 seasons with a chance of having a winning record through 2 seasons.


I remember a coach with a 6-6 record at Cal getting snatched up by an NFL team
.

HC's are hired not just on their record.
JW took the Cal defense from the Bottom 10 to the Top 10 (if you consider the Pick-6s, scoop and scores and fumbles/INTs that put the defense with its back against the wall.
And that was done in 2 years with just one recruiting class.

Add to that the fact that he is 7-5 with virtually NO offense.

Sure as heck some college will at BIG bucks to have him as HC.


I like Wilcox, I am glad for him that he got this raise and extension.

However, how can you credit him with taking the defense from bottom 10 to top 10 and ingnore that he also took the offense from top 10 to bottom 10? Seems like a wash to me. You credit him with winning 7 games with no offense, but that is just the opposite of Dykes, who won games with no defense. If you look at Sagarin, the team is ranked roughly the same as last year and the year before (mid fifties) though the rest of the PAC-12 has dropped in strength. We still had a losing PAC-12 record. Besides switching O for D we have a coach who is a better "fit" for Cal. While it is a critical component, you don't necessarily have to pay extra for that. It was obvious when we hired him (and obvious Dykes didn't have it when we hired him).

Again, I like Wilcox and really want him to succeed at Cal. He is a good fit. I agree that increasing his salary to average Pac12 is appropriate for a team just below the average PAC-12 team. I hope he uses the extra assistant money to lock down his d staff and upgrade the o staff.
bear2034
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.

I, on the other hand, like my college football coaches to be a little more on the irrational, intimidating, and control freak side of things. Just a little....


okaydo
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oskirules said:

KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.

I, on the other hand, like my college football coaches to be a little more on the irrational, intimidating, and control freak side of things. Just a little....




Personally, I prefer a coach who enjoys his Cheez-Its while coaching.


freshfunk
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boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


It's not just the results but how he's going about making them. He's done the right things along the way planning for long term success.

It started with putting together a quality staff. He gave up part of his salary to give it to his staff. He's tried to build those local relationships. He's stressed fundamentals and practices it every week (remember tackling under Sonny?). He always looks in control and deliberate during games.

During the tough part of the year he challenged the team to see what they were made of and the team responded. The team doesn't fold or choke (with some individual exceptions). Game management has been good.

Lastly, we had some huge wins this year. Even with a poor offense, we found a way to win. It's not just the defense as a whole that's looked great but some really impressive individual performances.

No doubt things are not perfect and improvements need to be made. Progress doesn't always happen in a straight line. But Wilcox has adjusted when needed. We lost Coach Azzinaro and he brought in Sirmon.
OdontoBear66
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Another Bear said:

Cal got the coordinator to HC discount...and now it's time to pay up because Wilcox is good and can do the job. If you don't pay him, he'll be poached like Bruce Snyder. Look, if you can turn around Cal, you will gets looks and calls because everyone knows that's not an easy deal. I'm glad the AD and donors figured that one out.
And do remember, because of the ineptitude of the Cal AD, Snyder was snapped up by the opposition on the plane flight home from a wonderful bowl victory. The low point in Cal FB, losses aside.
kirklandblue
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KenBurnski said:

Wilcox seems chill as hell, and like his entire existence is about football.

I'm watching a lot of Hallmark Channel Christmas movies. Every plot is the same: disillusioned city girl (usually works in finance) returns home (always someplace snowy and small) for the holidays. Rekindles high school love. Takes on some town holiday project. Learns to love.

The male love interest in these films is always fascinating. He seems to exist solely to assist the female protagonist in completing her town project mission. He has no ulterior motives. He isn't into doing the nasty. He doesn't check out other women. He doesn't drink or curse. And he's really good at fixing stuff.

Basically, Wilcox is that good guy from the Hallmark Christmas movies. I'm so glad we have him.


Nailed it. So perfect. Not to mention funny!
LunchTime
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boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

OaktownBear said:

boredom said:

LunchTime said:

fatmoon said:

I think you all are crazy. It's too early to give him an extension. This is a dumb move by Cal. This reminded me of the extension Tedford got. If Beau remain as the OC next season, JW will be a bust.


The extension is a safety move for us. If he was snatched up by another program after next season, Cal only gets paid $250k. Now we probably get $5m

The cost of firing him probably isnt much higher, since his previous contract was weighted towards the last years. Cal doesnt lose much.

In other words, we dont lose much on the down side, and we gain a lot of protection on the up side.


He was absurdly underpaid as a HC because he was a new coach with no experience. Now he is paid as a mid-tier Pac12 coach. Just like a 6-8 win coach should be.


So, we gain if he doesnt bust. We dont lose much more if he does bust. We keep his pay in line with his known value. We give him more to work with to get better assistants. Win win win win.

Do we actually know what his new buyout is? I like Wilcox so far but I could see this going anywhere from "8-10 wins every year, competing for the conference when there's no great team" to "around .500 every year" to "offense still sucks, defense regresses".

It's odd to me that most people seemed to realize in real time that Dykes' extension after this type of season was a mistake and some in retrospect believe that giving Tedford an extension after better seasons than this was a mistake but this one - an extension with a doubling of salary following a 7-5 4-5 season - is universally celebrated.


Let's be fair here. First of all Wilcox is currently the lowest paid head coach in P5. Second of all, this isn't close to double. It isn't double if you take his AVERAGE salary under the old agreement, but that isn't the right metric. His salary was ramping up to $2.8 million year 5 (plus he'd get $500K for just completing the contract. I'd assume a similar ramp, but we don't know that. In any case if it's truly $3.3m, that is a 50% raise over the average remaining years on the original contract. Given that Cal paid such a low salary to start and with 2 years he is more valuable on the market, it is a fair salary


ok, he got a 50% raise. My mistake. Doesn't change my point. The buyout is important as there isn't a ton of evidence yet that Wilcox can make us a regular contender and it'd suck if we're sitting here in a year or two stuck with a mediocre or worse coaching situation because we don't have the $10M+ to make a change.

I like Wilcox and this isn't anywhere near as dumb as the Dykes extension (or the Dykes hiring which seemed like a terrible idea at the time). So far his records very similar to Dykes' post year 1 and burned out Tedford's.

For those saying we're on an upward trajectory with a high ceiling, I'm curious why you think that? It could be true, I really hope it is, but what's the evidence? After the 2003 season it was obvious we were on our way up and would be really good really soon. Right now it seems like it could go either way. Our offense got markedly worse and is now terrible. Our defense is really good and I don't know how much better it could get in the near term, especially if key guys leave early. I don't follow recruiting much but it doesn't sound like there's any surefire instant impact playmakers coming or a qb who can get the other team to have a defender line up more than 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.


This is why I disagree with you. My analysis, unlike others, is not "we're on the upswing! Lock him up before someone steals him!" I would say that your analysis is relying on his initial salary being some baseline for "competent P5 football coach". Like if he were making $1m and got a $500k raise you'd still be making the same argument because what has he done to get a 50% raise.

However, Cal got him cheap because he had no experience and no record. He was literally the lowest paid coach in P5. Essentially, it is like when you hire a kid out of college with no experience. You get him cheap, but as he gains experience his salary goes up significantly as he becaomes a full fledged worker in his field. Or you lose him.

Cal paid the right amount for no experience. Now that he has 2 competent seasons behind him they are paying the right amount for a coach with 2 years of ok results in P5. If we had hired such a coach in the first place, we would have paid more initially and wouldn't have given a 50% increase now.

My analysis is that a guy who has only proven he can get a team to mediocre shouldn't have a $16M buyout which would be far and away the largest in the conference. I have no idea what his actual buyout is, that's why I asked about it. I'm not anti-Wilcox. I'm just aware Cal has very limited financial resources and there's a risk that this is as good as it gets with Wilcox and we're stuck paying a lot of money for mediocrity. If donors agreed to pay his salary while he's here, great. If he fails I don't want to end up with another Wyking hire (woefully under-qualified allegedly due to money constraints). I suspect the ticket price increase has to do with paying Wilcox as well.

Also, I would say he's actually now being paid for more than his accomplishments. Looking in conference:
- He's now tied with Chip Kelly and Chippy is a far more accomplished coach (hopefully past his prime but we'll find out).
- He's a bit behind Mike Leach who got Wazzu to 10-2.
- He's ahead of Helton (we finished ahead of USC and we're paying our coach more! who would've thought that'd happen). Helton's record 2 years in was 21-6 including a Rose Bowl win. Not saying Helton is a good coach, just has achieved more (though with better resources).

source: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
Those are actual salaries vs Wilcox's average.

Typically deals are weighted towards the end of the contract. For example, If Wilcox had stayed 5 years, and not renewed, he would have made close to $3m in the final year, vs like $1.5 his first year.
Sebastabear
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Thanks to all for the words of support. I haven't seen Yogi's post, nor do I intend to, since I used the excellent "ignore" feature after his original diatribe. Life is too short.

For what it's worth, I think all of us add something unique to the board. I will never have killa22 or beardog's football IQ or understanding of the x's and o's. I'll never have Okaydo's insights into twitter and social media, Fiatlux's relationships with the players or Colorado's grasp of our media contracts. I do, however, have some insights into the funding of the various coaches and programs since I'm involved in those. Happy to share those insights with those who are interested - or not. IMHO it's the totality of the information that make this board worth seeing, but I can only add what I know. Don't want to force my thoughts on anyone who finds them grating.
NVBear78
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Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.



That is not what he did at all. Rather a well connected and generous donor shared some important information. I for one greatly appreciate it.
Goobear
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NVBear78 said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.



That is not what he did at all. Rather a well connected and generous donor shared some important information. I for one greatly appreciate it.
Amen
Alkiadt
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BearGoggles said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Goobear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program

Not sure why you are doing this Yogi....Certain people are just more plugged in then others.....Has nothing to do with showing off....

Agreed. Yogi, stop being butt hurt.
Yogi - if it bothers you, I suggest you use the ignore feature to block all posts by Sebastabear. That way you won't be bothered by all his posts with legitimate inside information. The rest of us can enjoy and appreciate the perspective and insight he brings and the low key manner in which it is presented.


Perfect response. lol
GivemTheAxe
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Sebastabear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

JW was contacted by other programs looking to hire him. I would respectfully assert that anyone who doesn't see what JW brings to the table and why this might be attractive to another program isn't quite as tuned in as they might believe.
Oh I love it when you play the "my connections are better than yours" card. Makes me so envious.
Truth hurts. They are better. But to be honest in this case by "tuned in" I meant "tuned in to reality." It's objectively obvious what Wilcox is bringing to the program.


I have a friend who is on the fringes of the Big Donor circle. He always holds his cards close to the vest. (No connection with Boston Market). But what I hear from him is consisten with what SebastaBear reports
 
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