B.A. Bearacus said:
Quick recap:
- Baldwin will now be QB coach in addition to OC
- Tui to TE
- Toler to WR
- Edwards to RB
So the QBs get worse, tight ends forget how to catch......
Wilcox Announces Staff Restructure
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Last: 5 yr ago by rkt88edmo
So the QBs get worse, tight ends forget how to catch......
Big C said:
And the tea leaves say:
Tui and Edwards are diplomatically fired: They will be circulating their resumes.
Baldwin:
1. Wilcox sincerely believes BB can do better, with better personnel. Or...
2. Wilcox doesn't have the $$$ to buy him out. And / Or...
2a. Wilcox believes in "loyalty" too much to let him go (euphemistically stated)
Yeah, one or some combo of the three.
They should have already exhausted their last chance. This is bull*****tequila4kapp said:
This is underwhelming. This HAS to be the last chance before massive changes are made.
Another Bear said:
I'm okay with this.
He wasn't a great WR eithernwbear84 said:
The only encouraging thing I see here is Tui out as QB coach. He wasn't a great QB at UW.
calumnus said:nwbear84 said:
The only encouraging thing I see here is Tui out as QB coach. He wasn't a great QB at UW. Never really impressed me much with his passing ability. He was OK scrambling and running. Sound familiar?
Addition by subtraction? We will see.
So you think Baldwin's quarterbacking at Central Washington U (as the back up his last two years) exceeds that of a guy who lead UW to 11-1 and a Rose Bowl victory as MVP defeating Drew Brees? Then spent 8 years in the NFL?
Well, Sean McVay totalled 39 catches in his illustrious college receiving career. Should we rule him out?
He's proven himself. You answer these questions at a lower level and if you do well, you move up. If you don't succeed when you move up, you either move back down or out.TheSouseFamily said:Well, Sean McVay totalled 39 catches in his illustrious college receiving career. Should we rule him out?calumnus said:nwbear84 said:
The only encouraging thing I see here is Tui out as QB coach. He wasn't a great QB at UW. Never really impressed me much with his passing ability. He was OK scrambling and running. Sound familiar?
Addition by subtraction? We will see.
So you think Baldwin's quarterbacking at Central Washington U (as the back up his last two years) exceeds that of a guy who lead UW to 11-1 and a Rose Bowl victory as MVP defeating Drew Brees? Then spent 8 years in the NFL?
Blonde on blonde violence...yeah that's not me. Try again big boy.Yogi Bear said:Another Bear said:
I'm okay with this.
You want change...put your money where your mouth is. Pony up, open your wallet. Shouldn't cost more than a couple million, each year.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
TheSouseFamily said:calumnus said:nwbear84 said:
The only encouraging thing I see here is Tui out as QB coach. He wasn't a great QB at UW. Never really impressed me much with his passing ability. He was OK scrambling and running. Sound familiar?
Addition by subtraction? We will see.
So you think Baldwin's quarterbacking at Central Washington U (as the back up his last two years) exceeds that of a guy who lead UW to 11-1 and a Rose Bowl victory as MVP defeating Drew Brees? Then spent 8 years in the NFL?
Well, Sean McVay totalled 39 catches in his illustrious college receiving career. Should we rule him out?
I was responding to a post that said Baldwin will be a better QB coach than Tui because Tui wasn't a good QB.
Now if you argue that less gifted players make better coaches (which there is evidence for) then you have an argument.
I truly believe the issues the last two years were that we lacked speed/playmakers at the WR position but ran a spread offense that required just that while underutilizing our best offensive players. Then combined that with predictable/unimaginative playcalling and yanking the QBs around when the above wasn't effective.
Because I think offensive design and playcalling was the single biggest issue, I am discouraged by another move that seems to blame QB performance for our woes and will likely take our OC out of the booth and away from those duties. This is a signal we will see the same rpo spread next year, but likely with Modster running it, though more likely with a progression of QBs as each is successively blamed for any offensive shortcomings.
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL WILCOX HAS SPOKEN
Isn't it kind of strange that the guy who you hired to coach the most important position on the field is now coaching the tight ends? That speaks volumes of how bad of a hire it was.
Another Bear said:
Seriously, the whoa be us stuff is getting OLD and tired. Things are not perfect but Wilcox has Cal headed in the right direction. Agree that upgrading talent, returning injured players and transfers might do it along with Cal's stellar defense.
No. Sorry, but I disagree with you guys. This isn't just negabear stuff. If our recruiting - especially on the O side of the ball - had been great then this reshuffling to keep the recruiters and take a shot at improving positional performance could arguably make sense. Our recruiting has not been so good as to justify this type of move.Quote:
Tired of the doom and gloom...
Ok is it possible negabears that Wilcox noted the injuries, flameout/weaknesses at QB ( as well as coaching deficiencies) and just made the fine tuning adjustments (including bringing in Modster and WR help) that will make this car run better? He kept Tui because he recruited Modster. With a terrific defense next year, these may be just the changes we need.
Making BB the QB coach makes sense to me. I'm in the camp that still believes he didn't suddenly become dumb. I think this one could work. But...
A WR coach with no experience at RB is now coaching RBs. That is on its face stupid, or at least risky.
A QB coach who has been demoted to TE coach before is being demoted in the same manner again. Again, on its face this just screams Obvious Bad Move. Loyalty and continuity is great but incompetent people should be shown the door. Give them a soft landing if it's deserved but move them along.
It's been two years. It's not like there is a single sign of life on that side of the ball. More dramatic changes were clearly called for.
EDIT: the post speculating this is a diplomatic firing makes sense. I hope that's the case.
Maybe. Agree about the QB coach change, WR too...but not RB.
My take on this is also about contract salaries and maybe doing another coach a solid. BB and the rest got a 3 year contract, right? Wouldn't Cal have to pay out if there was a coaching change, both existing and new? Maybe it's not an issue but I don't think changing coaches would make much difference, especially with the shift. Big C sort of nailed it upthread - demotion, someone doing double duty, issue area isolated.
I'm of the mind to stick to contracts, let it ride. Another year isn't going to make that much of a differences, given the coaching shift. From a management position, why make the changes, what are the clear benefits and why not ride out those contracts (one more year)?
I know the logic from a fan position - the assumption coaching changes would make a significant difference, and the costs involved are meaningless.
I still think talent is primary, as in you need basic talent. Cal was lacking. Coaching can't even help that. Otherwise, I'm okay with going slow, fulfill the contract, not pay more. Major re-do next year. I'm also cool with keeping Tui on board at TE.
My take on this is also about contract salaries and maybe doing another coach a solid. BB and the rest got a 3 year contract, right? Wouldn't Cal have to pay out if there was a coaching change, both existing and new? Maybe it's not an issue but I don't think changing coaches would make much difference, especially with the shift. Big C sort of nailed it upthread - demotion, someone doing double duty, issue area isolated.
I'm of the mind to stick to contracts, let it ride. Another year isn't going to make that much of a differences, given the coaching shift. From a management position, why make the changes, what are the clear benefits and why not ride out those contracts (one more year)?
I know the logic from a fan position - the assumption coaching changes would make a significant difference, and the costs involved are meaningless.
I still think talent is primary, as in you need basic talent. Cal was lacking. Coaching can't even help that. Otherwise, I'm okay with going slow, fulfill the contract, not pay more. Major re-do next year. I'm also cool with keeping Tui on board at TE.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
I hope you're right. If those real changes aren't seen by late February, early March (mt@te is discouraging; ne@rb looks beyond ridiculous), then it'll be crystal clear to me jw is not cut out to be HC anywhere.southseasbear said:
I suspect some of these moves are interim measures and that some of the coaches who were moved will leave before the season begins. Instead of firing one or two of them, they are being temporarily reassigned pending their finding other work.
Tui getting demoted is a good thing.
BB was never getting fired. I haven't seen it, but a NC coach doesn't leave an easy job for a shot at a coordinator for a risky rebuild of a wrecked program unless it comes with a significant buy out.
Either tui is hot garbage, or we don't have the money. Since I expect some richy donors were just as mad as some of us, I assume the money wasn't a primary issue, but maybe it was.
BB was never getting fired. I haven't seen it, but a NC coach doesn't leave an easy job for a shot at a coordinator for a risky rebuild of a wrecked program unless it comes with a significant buy out.
Either tui is hot garbage, or we don't have the money. Since I expect some richy donors were just as mad as some of us, I assume the money wasn't a primary issue, but maybe it was.
Tui looks like a demotion (lost passing game coordinator and recruiting coordinator), and appears to be being pushed out. Ragle returns to TE's when Tui leaves? Not sure what to make of Edwards. Maybe the bring in an experienced RB coach when Tui gets another job, and Toler and Edwards split inside/outside WRs?packawana said:
Look, I'm all for staff continuity but this looks like Wilcox is trying to keep Edwards and Tui on staff.
I don't get this. While we are talent challenged on offense, we lost 2-3 games last season directly due to personnel decisions and playcalling. There will be no change in that department. This is gonna be sad if we have a Top 25 D and a bottom 10 offense.
What this looks like is that Wilcox feels that talent development for both the WRs and the QBs should have been better and with better coaching would have provided wins with the given playcalling. There's a fair argument for that -- if the QBs could make better reads and emphasized ball security, we're probably a 9 win team.
This pundit projects that TUI is gone. Edwards is a courtesy hold between Baldwin and Wilcox. Wilcox asked Baldwin if multiple equals TE and he said no. The TE position coach spot is our relief valve. Edwards will move yet again after TUI is gone to TE, which better aligns with his skill set. Our new RB coach will be ???????
playing ability doesn't equal coaching ability. For that matter, neither does alma mater.nwbear84 said:
The only encouraging thing I see here is Tui out as QB coach. He wasn't a great QB at UW. Never really impressed me much with his passing ability. He was OK scrambling and running. Sound familiar?
Addition by subtraction? We will see.
CALiforniALUM said:
This pundit projects that TUI is gone. Edwards is a courtesy hold between Baldwin and Wilcox. Wilcox asked Baldwin if multiple equals TE and he said no. The TE position coach spot is our relief valve. Edwards will move yet again after TUI is gone to TE, which better aligns with his skill set. Our new RB coach will be ???????
Marshawn Lynch.
delete
This is a weak move. Another year of squandering an elite defense to delay the inevitable.
Coaches need to understand when they've made bad decisions and correct them. This move doesn't inspire confidence in Wilcox's ability to do that. Smells of stubbornness.
Coaches need to understand when they've made bad decisions and correct them. This move doesn't inspire confidence in Wilcox's ability to do that. Smells of stubbornness.
Agree.
Or Jahvid Best? Didn't he help out at some of the practices with Sonny Dykes?oski003 said:CALiforniALUM said:
This pundit projects that TUI is gone. Edwards is a courtesy hold between Baldwin and Wilcox. Wilcox asked Baldwin if multiple equals TE and he said no. The TE position coach spot is our relief valve. Edwards will move yet again after TUI is gone to TE, which better aligns with his skill set. Our new RB coach will be ???????
Marshawn Lynch.
For whatever reason the coaches aren't materially changing. Could we at least require a consultant be brought in and give some ideas to the O staff? Somebody like Mariucci. Just have them review the game and practice tapes. I think they can't observe the players live but still its worth a try. Maybe the O staff doesn't even realize the why of whats not working.
Looks like Wilcox is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Disappointing.B.A. Bearacus said:
Quick recap:
- Baldwin will now be QB coach in addition to OC
- Tui to TE
- Toler to WR
- Edwards to RB
Tui was a successful option QB at Woodinville HS and at the UW. His skills didn't translate well to the NFL, nor, it appears, to college coaching.
Plus, in his 10 years as a college assistant he has worked under a bunch of coaches not known for developing assistants -- Sarkisian, Neuheisel, Mora, Sark again and Mora again. I am still reserving judgement on Wilcox and Baldwin, but I had my doubts when Tui was initially hired by Wilcox.
Tui is past "put up or shut up" time.
Plus, in his 10 years as a college assistant he has worked under a bunch of coaches not known for developing assistants -- Sarkisian, Neuheisel, Mora, Sark again and Mora again. I am still reserving judgement on Wilcox and Baldwin, but I had my doubts when Tui was initially hired by Wilcox.
Tui is past "put up or shut up" time.
So why do the RB's get short shrift with an under-performing coach? Isn't their performance important too?packawana said:
What this looks like is that Wilcox feels that talent development for both the WRs and the QBs should have been better and with better coaching would have provided wins with the given playcalling. There's a fair argument for that -- if the QBs could make better reads and emphasized ball security, we're probably a 9 win team.
I don't see why I should trust the guy who put McIlwain on the field and then told him to pass a bunch of times to be better at QB development.
If that's the case, why reassign anyone at all?southseasbear said:
I suspect some of these moves are interim measures and that some of the coaches who were moved will leave before the season begins. Instead of firing one or two of them, they are being temporarily reassigned pending their finding other work.
Plus if you're waiting to replace them, a lot of good candidates will be gone.
YES! If this were done a year ago it would have been at least two more wins.TouchedTheAxeIn82 said:
So Baldwin is now QB coach. Is that an improvement?
This is why Cal is Cal.
Arguably the worst part of retaining the same cast of characters is that the recruiting personnel is unchanged. Keeping the same recruiters and expecting different results (i.e. a top half of the Pac12 recruiting rankings or better) is insane.
This ripple affect of the non-change in staff hurts us for years.
Arguably the worst part of retaining the same cast of characters is that the recruiting personnel is unchanged. Keeping the same recruiters and expecting different results (i.e. a top half of the Pac12 recruiting rankings or better) is insane.
This ripple affect of the non-change in staff hurts us for years.
Coaching RBs is always considered to be the easiest job among the offensive positions to coach. I wouldn't be surprised if Edwards just does the same thing Toler or Baldwin did the last two years -- I still imagine he's intelligent enough to tell whether or not a player has good ball security skills.Yogi Bear said:So why do the RB's get short shrift with an under-performing coach? Isn't their performance important too?packawana said:
What this looks like is that Wilcox feels that talent development for both the WRs and the QBs should have been better and with better coaching would have provided wins with the given playcalling. There's a fair argument for that -- if the QBs could make better reads and emphasized ball security, we're probably a 9 win team.
I don't see why I should trust the guy who put McIlwain on the field and then told him to pass a bunch of times to be better at QB development.
As for whether Baldwin will be good...who knows? He does have a solid track record with QBs (Adams, Mitchell is starting in the CFL and might go to the Vikings, Nichols is also starting in the CFL, Gubrud is going to end up at Wazzu or Utah), so he has a track record that's more consistent than Tui.
Yogi Bear said:So why do the RB's get short shrift with an under-performing coach? Isn't their performance important too?packawana said:
What this looks like is that Wilcox feels that talent development for both the WRs and the QBs should have been better and with better coaching would have provided wins with the given playcalling. There's a fair argument for that -- if the QBs could make better reads and emphasized ball security, we're probably a 9 win team.
I don't see why I should trust the guy who put McIlwain on the field and then told him to pass a bunch of times to be better at QB development.
Exactly. Plus it is not like Baldwin as OC did not have access to the QBs to coach them as much as he wanted. Tedford was the HC when he worked with Boller and Rodgers. This will just take time away from Baldwin's other responsibilities as OC as he is now fully responsible for running the QBs through drills and workouts.
Basically Tui and the QBs are being made the scapegoat for the offensive failures of the last two years. Baldwin is being given a third/fourth chance with yet another QB. I am not hopeful, but will stop venting soon and hope for the best. If we need to bring in new offensive staff in Wilcox's 4th year it will be really bad, as the cupboard will be far more bare for the new staff than the situation Wilcox/Baldwin inherited. It could take a few years to turn around.
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