BearGreg said:

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UHow do you have?

According to Pac-12 Network:

#12 - Ed White - Bear Minimum Defense - "Strongest Football Player I've Ever Seen" - Nicknamed the Goose

#11 - Marshawn Lynch - All Around Football Player - "He could run it inside, outside, catch it, breakaway threat" - Tedford; "Nobody had more fun on the football field" - Roxy Bernstein; 1st Team All American

#10 - Rod Franz - Two way player in the late 1940s; Tough Guy; Offensive Lineman, Charismatic and Inspiring; College Football Hall of Fame; 3x All American

#9 - Joe Kapp - "Greatest leader Cal has ever had"; "Would do anything to win a game or gain a yard"; Nicknamed "Jumping Joe"; 1st team All American; Coach of Cal for the Play

#8 - Joe Roth - Epitomizes Cal Football; Big arm, led team to top offense in 1975; All American in 1976; Courage and Grace, First Jersey to be retired; The Inspiration for Cal Football now and forever

#7 - Les Richter - "Greatest linebacker in Cal history" - 2X Consensus All American at Offensive Guard; All Conference Kicker; Traded for 11 players in NFL; NFL Hall of Fame

#6 - Tony Gonzalez - "Could be the best athlete to ever play at Cal"; 1st Team All American and NCAA Sweet 16; "Easily the best TE in Cal history"; NFL Hall of Fame - Greatest receiving TE in NFL history

#5 - Harold Mueller - Best player in 50-0 Wonder Years era of 1920s; Nicknamed "Brick" for flaming red hair; 1920 Olympic Silver Medal in High Jump; Receiver and RB and ferocious tackler; Played every play of every game; What made him special was as a QB, could throw it longer than anyone. Charter member of College Football Hall of Fame

#4 - Aaron Rodgers - Put Cal football back on the map; You could see it from day one that there was something special; Competitive! Accuracy and leadership ability were special; The best pure passer I've ever seen

#3 - Steve Bartkowski - Strong armed; 1974 Consensus All American; All American 1B in Baseball; Selected #1 overall in NFL Draft

#2 - Chuck Muncie - Unique blend of power and speed. Physical, powerful running back. 1975 was the greatest show Joe Starkey has ever seen; Most complete package at RB that Cal has ever seen.

#1 - Jackie Jensen - A myth, an icon from post WW2 era; Lots of touchdowns of over 50+ yards; Averaged 7.3 yards per carry during low offense era; Baseball College World Series Champion and future AL MVP

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

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BearGreg said:

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Who do you have?

According to Pac-12 Network:

#12 - Ed White - Bear Minimum Defense - "Strongest Football Player I've Ever Seen" - Nicknamed the Goose

#11 - Marshawn Lynch - All Around Football Player - "He could run it inside, outside, catch it, breakaway threat" - Tedford; "Nobody had more fun on the football field" - Roxy Bernstein; 1st Team All American

#10 - Rod Franz - Two way player in the late 1940s; Tough Guy; Offensive Lineman, Charismatic and Inspiring; College Football Hall of Fame; 3x All American

#9 - Joe Kapp - "Greatest leader Cal has ever had"; "Would do anything to win a game or gain a yard"; Nicknamed "Jumping Joe"; 1st team All American; Coach of Cal for the Play

#8 - Joe Roth - Epitomizes Cal Football; Big arm, led team to top offense in 1975; All American in 1976; Courage and Grace, First Jersey to be retired; The Inspiration for Cal Football now and forever

#7 - Les Richter - "Greatest linebacker in Cal history" - 2X Consensus All American at Offensive Guard; All Conference Kicker; Traded for 11 players in NFL; NFL Hall of Fame

#6 - Tony Gonzalez - "Could be the best athlete to ever play at Cal"; 1st Team All American and NCAA Sweet 16; "Easily the best TE in Cal history"; NFL Hall of Fame - Greatest receiving TE in NFL history

#5 - Harold Mueller - Best player in 50-0 Wonder Years era of 1920s; Nicknamed "Brick" for flaming red hair; 1920 Olympic Silver Medal in High Jump; Receiver and RB and ferocious tackler; Played every play of every game; What made him special was as a QB, could throw it longer than anyone. Charter member of College Football Hall of Fame

#4 - Aaron Rodgers - Put Cal football back on the map; You could see it from day one that there was something special; Competitive! Accuracy and leadership ability were special; The best pure passer I've ever seen

#3 - Steve Bartkowski - Strong armed; 1974 Consensus All American; All American 1B in Baseball; Selected #1 overall in NFL Draft

#2 - Chuck Muncie - Unique blend of power and speed. Physical, powerful running back. 1975 was the greatest show Joe Starkey has ever seen; Most complete package at RB that Cal has ever seen.

#1 - Jackie Jensen - A myth, an icon from post WW2 era; Lots of touchdowns of over 50+ yards; Averaged 7.3 yards per carry during low offense era; Baseball College World Series Champion and future AL MVP

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

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Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

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GivemTheAxe said:

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

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Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

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In my opinion this type of lists of the "all time best" favors the more recent players who within the living memory of the decision makers and does a disservice to players from different eras when rules and circumstances were less favorable.
IMO these lists should be broken down by era. For example:
1. Before Pappy Waldorf.
2 from Pappy Waldorf to Mike White.
3. From after Mike White to the present.
Or make up your own eras

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71Bear said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

---

Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

---

In my opinion this type of lists of the "all time best" favors the more recent players who within the living memory of the decision makers and does a disservice to players from different eras when rules and circumstances were less favorable.
IMO these lists should be broken down by era. For example:
1. Before Pappy Waldorf.
2 from Pappy Waldorf to Mike White.
3. From after Mike White to the present.
Or make up your own eras

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I agree. I tend to break things down as follows:

Pre-War
Post-War until college football was fully integrated (1970).
1970 to the present.

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GivemTheAxe said:

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

---

Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

---

In my opinion this type of lists of the "all time best" favors the more recent players who within the living memory of the decision makers and does a disservice to players from different eras when rules and circumstances were less favorable.
IMO these lists should be broken down by era. For example:
1. Before Pappy Waldorf.
2 from Pappy Waldorf to Mike White.
3. From after Mike White to the present.
Or make up your own eras

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flounder said:

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there is a huge difference between greatest accomplishments and best players. very few pre war players could bring down marshawn or stay with desean.

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71Bear said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

---

Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

---

In my opinion this type of lists of the "all time best" favors the more recent players who within the living memory of the decision makers and does a disservice to players from different eras when rules and circumstances were less favorable.
IMO these lists should be broken down by era. For example:
1. Before Pappy Waldorf.
2 from Pappy Waldorf to Mike White.
3. From after Mike White to the present.
Or make up your own eras

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I agree. I tend to break things down as follows:

Pre-War
Post-War until college football was fully integrated (1970).
1970 to the present.

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NortonBear said:

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Actually Mike White coached arty Cal from 1972-1977. I was a freshman in 1974 and he was the coach then.

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GivemTheAxe said:

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flounder said:

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there is a huge difference between greatest accomplishments and best players. very few pre war players could bring down marshawn or stay with desean.

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Would Desean been faster than Jesse Owens if Desean had been born in 1913 and been playing football in the 1930s.
Would Jesse Owens been faster than Desean if he had been born in 1986 and had been playing football at the same time as Desean?
Answer to both is "unknown".

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79 Bear said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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flounder said:

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there is a huge difference between greatest accomplishments and best players. very few pre war players could bring down marshawn or stay with desean.

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Would Desean been faster than Jesse Owens if Desean had been born in 1913 and been playing football in the 1930s.
Would Jesse Owens been faster than Desean if he had been born in 1986 and had been playing football at the same time as Desean?
Answer to both is "unknown".

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If I recall, Jahvid beat Desean in a race to determine who was fastest.

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71Bear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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You may have missed one or two Bear Greg as is pointed out, but I love the balance of the list through the years. And for those who discount "back when" they must admit "back when" is when we approached being a power.

---

Whenever one is discussing an "all-time best of" list, he/she must consider each player v. their contemporaries. Otherwise, no player from 50+ years ago could be considered. Of course, this changes the list from "all-time best of" to "all-time best of (using current standards of measurement)".

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71Bear said:

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BearGreg said:

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UHow do you have?

According to Pac-12 Network:

#12 - Ed White - Bear Minimum Defense - "Strongest Football Player I've Ever Seen" - Nicknamed the Goose

#11 - Marshawn Lynch - All Around Football Player - "He could run it inside, outside, catch it, breakaway threat" - Tedford; "Nobody had more fun on the football field" - Roxy Bernstein; 1st Team All American

#10 - Rod Franz - Two way player in the late 1940s; Tough Guy; Offensive Lineman, Charismatic and Inspiring; College Football Hall of Fame; 3x All American

#9 - Joe Kapp - "Greatest leader Cal has ever had"; "Would do anything to win a game or gain a yard"; Nicknamed "Jumping Joe"; 1st team All American; Coach of Cal for the Play

#8 - Joe Roth - Epitomizes Cal Football; Big arm, led team to top offense in 1975; All American in 1976; Courage and Grace, First Jersey to be retired; The Inspiration for Cal Football now and forever

#7 - Les Richter - "Greatest linebacker in Cal history" - 2X Consensus All American at Offensive Guard; All Conference Kicker; Traded for 11 players in NFL; NFL Hall of Fame

#6 - Tony Gonzalez - "Could be the best athlete to ever play at Cal"; 1st Team All American and NCAA Sweet 16; "Easily the best TE in Cal history"; NFL Hall of Fame - Greatest receiving TE in NFL history

#5 - Harold Mueller - Best player in 50-0 Wonder Years era of 1920s; Nicknamed "Brick" for flaming red hair; 1920 Olympic Silver Medal in High Jump; Receiver and RB and ferocious tackler; Played every play of every game; What made him special was as a QB, could throw it longer than anyone. Charter member of College Football Hall of Fame

#4 - Aaron Rodgers - Put Cal football back on the map; You could see it from day one that there was something special; Competitive! Accuracy and leadership ability were special; The best pure passer I've ever seen

#3 - Steve Bartkowski - Strong armed; 1974 Consensus All American; All American 1B in Baseball; Selected #1 overall in NFL Draft

#2 - Chuck Muncie - Unique blend of power and speed. Physical, powerful running back. 1975 was the greatest show Joe Starkey has ever seen; Most complete package at RB that Cal has ever seen.

#1 - Jackie Jensen - A myth, an icon from post WW2 era; Lots of touchdowns of over 50+ yards; Averaged 7.3 yards per carry during low offense era; Baseball College World Series Champion and future AL MVP

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Without Vic Botteri, the list is a waste of time. Botteri is arguably the greatest player ever to play for the Bears. He is in three Halls of Fame (College Football, University of California and Rose Bowl), he was top five in Heisman voting, and he scored both TD's in Cal win over Alabama in Cal's last Rose Bowl win.

The fact that there is only one name listed among the pre-War teams tells me this isn't a list of the 12 best of all-time but rather a list of the eleven best post-war players. If you put it that way, you could make a good argument this list is viable.

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/VIC-BOTTARI-1916-2003-Cal-loses-All-America-2687822.php

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blungld said:

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If the criteria is how dominant a player they were at Cal, not accolades they received or their legends or professional career, then my list (from 1982 on) would include Russel White, Andre Carter, Todd Stussie, Sean Dawkins, and Deltha O'Neal.

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flounder said:

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there is a huge difference between greatest accomplishments and best players. very few pre war players could bring down marshawn or stay with desean.

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joe amos yaks said:

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I saw Sam Chapman play in Emeryville for the Oaks* of the PCL.

(*Mel Ott and Augie Galan managed those 1952-54 teams.)

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SFCityBear said:

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joe amos yaks said:

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I saw Sam Chapman play in Emeryville for the Oaks* of the PCL.

(*Mel Ott and Augie Galan managed those 1952-54 teams.)

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It must have been a thrill. I only heard about him from my dad who went to every Cal home game in 1937. Was Chapman out of the Majors by 1952-54?

Another thing I forgot to mention about the older players was that they usually played all three sports, football, baseball, and basketball, in season. No time for all this specialization and training in only one sport like today.

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