wifeisafurd said:

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BearSD said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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stivo said:

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Our crappy AD is continuing to sell us out. Playing a top team on the road for money is what chump programs do. It decreases your chances of being successful as a football program but increases your chances of making a quick buck. Yeah, it would be great to go to Notre Dame -- if we win. But playing top teams on the road is a recipe for defeats. If I were the coach, I'd leave the program ASAP for a school that sets its team up for success instead of failure and that cares more about winning then selling it's football team out for cash.

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tag this post for when the full schedule changes come out.

The loser whiner mentality sucks,

Hopefully recruits have a different reaction.

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Unless those other changes include Notre Dame playing at CMS, or another big name team playing at CMS without the Bears having to return the game, it's not an even trade off.

Playing a one-off buy game at Notre Dame would make Cal look like Toledo. And that's how the national media will view it.

If Stanford played at Notre Dame without the Irish ever playing on the Farm, we'd be laughing at them.

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You don't know what the schedule changes are yet.

The national media already thinks the Pac sucks (other than maybe Oregon) and the only way to change that is to go beat someone like Notre Dame (even if they have a sucky team, which Kellly sometimes has had during his tenure).

And if we think Cal football is progressing toward a 10 win team, we need to beat teams like Notre Dame in South Bend to get to a playoff. The 2020 season had 3 OOC teams who are have a horrible strength of schedule Let's say Cal wins the Pac. Who cares? The argument will be they won a weak conference and beat three cream puffs outside conference. All that changes if you beat Notre Dame even tif they don't have a particular good team. And if they have a good team, the midwest folks have your back come post-season. Its time for Cal to think big for once, rather than sound like a bunch of ***** whiners.

Edit: starred word is something you would call a cat.

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I agree about not being a feline whiner. Cal going to ND is an entirely different situation than if, say, San Jose State went there. This isn't a "body bag" game; we are intending to win it. The national media will admire our panache!

Just making this trip will be a statement to recruits. Speaking of recruits, I thought South Bend was in the middle of nowhere, until I looked on a map and saw how close it is to Chicago. I'm guessing there might be a few high school football players in the greater Chicago area: I wonder if they enjoy that weather, or maybe they'd like to matriculate somewhere with a nicer climate.

Our players will be excited as hell, too!

Think big, felines: Look past that ball of yarn!

What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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It's actually not that simple. As evidence, read a little more closely what the others are writing. Or look on the front page: We just offered a top prep offensive lineman (2021) from Chicago. Then look on a map of that area and see how close South Bend, Indiana is to Chicago.

Plenty of good things about playing this game, even without the quid pro quo. Think outside the box. Think big.

Like Oxford, South Bend is a must see for me and nothing like work or someone's wedding is going to keep me from this game. I can go to SB indiana to watch football anytime but to watch our Golden Bears play there. Yes, that's going to be a priority.

71Bear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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ND has 8/30 and 9/6 as open dates in 2025. So does Cal...

ND's last road game @ Furd is 2023 under their current contract.

I'd say playing ND - even if at Levi's (Jed York is a big ND fan) - would be preferred to a one off road game. And possible in 2025.

Curious how long we will have to wait before the future schedule changes are announced. I'm intrigued, but with the suspicion it may be dissapointing.

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Re: future schedules, believe it is a possibility only when you see an official announcement (even then things can change later). Anything short of that is speculation that may or may not come to fruition.

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We know what has been officially announced. The Cal press release says this is only a one game deal with Notre Dame.

01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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That's fine.

But what if I just want a unique Cal football road-trip that has never occurred in my lifetime? Do I want to be so full of pride to say that I'd much rather have a home game vs. UNLV (which is what this game appears to be replacing based on the date) that I honestly have almost no interest in the opposing team, or would I rather be able to travel to Chicago (never had a reason to go) and have a fun trip there and also see my team play against one of the most storied programs in college football history?

I'd rather have the fun trip.

Cal getting money for it is a nice plus although it doesn't do much for me personally.

Big C said:

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01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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It's actually not that simple. As evidence, read a little more closely what the others are writing. Or look on the front page: We just offered a top prep offensive lineman (2021) from Chicago. Then look on a map of that area and see how close South Bend, Indiana is to Chicago.

Plenty of good things about playing this game, even without the quid pro quo. Think outside the box. Think big.

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You really should take your own advice. Per ColoradoBear, ND has a couple open dates in 2025. It's possible for ND to play Cal at Cal on those dates. That ND is refusing to do so and that Cal is okay with this only goes to show just how little respect both schools have for Cal. Worse, that alumni, like you, are okay with this, only goes to show how little respect you have for Cal, as well.

As for the 2021 recruit, do you really think scheduling a game at ND in a year after the recruit has already began his collegiate career will really help sway him? Really? Or are you trying to imply that by playing at ND Cal will be able to appeal to other Midwestern kids? If the latter, again, you realize that this isn't precluded by having ND agree to play at Cal in a subsequent year, right? If anything, it might bolster Cal's appeal.

Hei Bei said:

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01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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That's fine.

But what if I just want a unique Cal football road-trip that has never occurred in my lifetime? Do I want to be so full of pride to say that I'd much rather have a home game vs. UNLV (which is what this game appears to be replacing based on the date) that I honestly have almost no interest in the opposing team, or would I rather be able to travel to Chicago (never had a reason to go) and have a fun trip there and also see my team play against one of the most storied programs in college football history?

I'd rather have the fun trip.

Cal getting money for it is a nice plus although it doesn't do much for me personally.

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I've been to Chicago (in fact, I lives there for three years while I attended law school). It's not all that great. Sure, there are some great steakhouses, deep dish pizza, and Chicago dogs. Honestly, aside from the Chicago dogs, a Bay area native can find similar things at home. Personally, I much preferred Zachary's in Rockridge over the Chicago pizza joints, when it came to deep dish. As much as I came to love Chicago dogs (and Italian beef sandwiches), I've learned to live without them or to get them from Portillo's in SoCal or from a couple hot dog places in Las Vegas, you know, the city where UNLV is located. Heck, if you want to take a booze train, there's one in Napa Valley.

If you want to enjoy a game at ND, there's nothing to prevent you from going there. You can still take the train from Chicago to ND even if Cal isn't playing them. For that matter, there's nothing preventing you from visiting Chicago and doing whatever else you would've done there if you went for a Cal game. Of course, you could've just as easily made a trip to Chicago back when Cal played Northwestern in Evanston in 2014. That you chose not to visit Chicago then only goes to show it's not really about visiting Chicago that appeals to or interests you, and that's certainly your prerogative.

But to approve of Cal debasing itself by agreeing to be treated as some Div. I-AA school or some G5 school and agreeing to play at ND without a reciprocal game at Cal only goes to show in just how low esteem you hold Cal.

Again, it really is that simple.

01Bear said:

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Hei Bei said:

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01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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That's fine.

But what if I just want a unique Cal football road-trip that has never occurred in my lifetime? Do I want to be so full of pride to say that I'd much rather have a home game vs. UNLV (which is what this game appears to be replacing based on the date) that I honestly have almost no interest in the opposing team, or would I rather be able to travel to Chicago (never had a reason to go) and have a fun trip there and also see my team play against one of the most storied programs in college football history?

I'd rather have the fun trip.

Cal getting money for it is a nice plus although it doesn't do much for me personally.

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I've been to Chicago (in fact, I lives there for three years while I attended law school). It's not all that great. Sure, there are some great steakhouses, deep dish pizza, and Chicago dogs. Honestly, aside from the Chicago dogs, a Bay area native can find similar things at home. Personally, I much preferred Zachary's in Rockridge over the Chicago pizza joints, when it came to deep dish. As much as I came to love Chicago dogs (and Italian beef sandwiches), I've learned to live without them or to get them from Portillo's in SoCal or from a couple hot dog places in Las Vegas, you know, the city where UNLV is located. Heck, if you want to take a booze train, there's one in Napa Valley.

If you want to enjoy a game at ND, there's nothing to prevent you from going there. You can still take the train from Chicago to ND even if Cal isn't playing them. For that matter, there's nothing preventing you from visiting Chicago and doing whatever else you would've done there if you went for a Cal game. Of course, you could've just as easily made a trip to Chicago back when Cal played Northwestern in Evanston in 2014.

But to approve of Cal debasing itself by agreeing to be treated as some Div. I-AA school or some G5 school and agreeing to play at ND without a reciprocal game at Cal only goes to show in just how low esteem you hold Cal.

Again, it really is that simple.

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No, it really isn't that simple. Believe it or not, whether a school does a one game road series or gets a return date is not a topic of national sports conversation. No one cares. Any humiliation is purely your own feeling. I think there is a fair argument to be made for your side. I don't think Cal should make a habit of this. But there is a good argument for doing it as well.

I could just as easily say would you rather play UNLV at home or play Notre Dame on the road? Plus get paid. It is that simple.

FCS and non P-5 schools sell themselves in body bag games. That is not what is going on here. Notre Dame had a need for a home opponent. It is a one time shot. It is something our alums, coaches, players and recruits would like far more than a home game against a nondescript opponent. It will be a much more memorable experience for all. It is not a body bag game. It should be competitive. They are paying us because we are giving up a home game and it is necessary to make the finances work. I think if you stop and think about this for a second rather than react to something that isn't really happening (Cal selling itself out) it makes no sense to turn this down.

And yes, Notre Dame is the most storied NCAA football program. To reference Seinfeld, you're not Ted Danson.

If it makes anyone feel better, the general sentiment on the Notre Dame boards is not "great another automatic win." They in no way view this as buying a body bag game. The sentiment is very much "great another chance to take on (and hopefully beat) an academic powerhouse to burnish our credentials as the place to attend for academically minded players."

Of course when (not if) we beat them that knife will cut the other way.

I like the game for a variety of reasons and I am excited to go to South Bend. I get that we'd prefer a home and home but let's be realistic. If you're Notre Dame, would you agree to a home and home with Cal? I wouldn't. We don't have much of a following and don't do much for ratings. Since 2000, we're 11th in the P12 in winning %. Sure, we're brimming with confidence and optimism on the heels of a 7 win and 8 win season but NF is coming off 11 and 12 win seasons. Oski willing, there will come a time when we've deserved and earned a home and home with a power like NE but we're not there now.

What worries me is that we will have a new QB for that game, given Chase Garbers plays the next two seasons.

OaktownBear said:

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01Bear said:

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Hei Bei said:

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01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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That's fine.

But what if I just want a unique Cal football road-trip that has never occurred in my lifetime? Do I want to be so full of pride to say that I'd much rather have a home game vs. UNLV (which is what this game appears to be replacing based on the date) that I honestly have almost no interest in the opposing team, or would I rather be able to travel to Chicago (never had a reason to go) and have a fun trip there and also see my team play against one of the most storied programs in college football history?

I'd rather have the fun trip.

Cal getting money for it is a nice plus although it doesn't do much for me personally.

---

I've been to Chicago (in fact, I lives there for three years while I attended law school). It's not all that great. Sure, there are some great steakhouses, deep dish pizza, and Chicago dogs. Honestly, aside from the Chicago dogs, a Bay area native can find similar things at home. Personally, I much preferred Zachary's in Rockridge over the Chicago pizza joints, when it came to deep dish. As much as I came to love Chicago dogs (and Italian beef sandwiches), I've learned to live without them or to get them from Portillo's in SoCal or from a couple hot dog places in Las Vegas, you know, the city where UNLV is located. Heck, if you want to take a booze train, there's one in Napa Valley.

If you want to enjoy a game at ND, there's nothing to prevent you from going there. You can still take the train from Chicago to ND even if Cal isn't playing them. For that matter, there's nothing preventing you from visiting Chicago and doing whatever else you would've done there if you went for a Cal game. Of course, you could've just as easily made a trip to Chicago back when Cal played Northwestern in Evanston in 2014.

But to approve of Cal debasing itself by agreeing to be treated as some Div. I-AA school or some G5 school and agreeing to play at ND without a reciprocal game at Cal only goes to show in just how low esteem you hold Cal.

Again, it really is that simple.

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I could just as easily say would you rather play UNLV at home or play Notre Dame on the road? Plus get paid. It is that simple.

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By that logic, if playing a G5 game at home is so undesirable and the road money so good, we should just get a list of the top 10 paying SEC and Big Ten schools, set up 10 road trips, and get those home games off the schedule to get paid. This would also get rid of those even worse G5 road games - just stack up the $$$ every year.

From what I recall, the only recent games with a P12 team playing a one off road game for money were Oregon State @ tOSU in 2018 and CU (who were terrible in the years preceding 2011) @ tOSU in 2011. But Cal somehow got a home and home with tOSU. So that means we are not Ore St or CU. And also had/will have games with Texas. And Auburn. And TCU. And if you believe the reports from last November, Florida.

For those saying we need respect, I'd argue that a one off home game @ ND is not the way to go. You know what would also help Cal? A home win versus ND. Which is so much more likely. Or if ND doesn't want to play ball, find someone who will reciprocate. Imagine if that Tennessee series were one game @Tenn. And we never get the chance to play @CMS on national TV in 2007? Generally, even matched teams win at home and lose on the road... according to vegas, it's a 6 point swing from home to away. That's huge.

OaktownBear said:

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01Bear said:

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Hei Bei said:

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01Bear said:

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What a lot of the defenders of the scheduling seem to be arguing is that Cal should go to ND. However, those (including yours truly) who are complaining are not saying Cal shouldn't got to ND, whatsoever. Rather, we're saying ND should also have to come to Cal. It's a matter of respect, and more importantly, one of self-respect. Does Cal think of itself as an also-ran or as a team that can play against (and beat) anyone else? If the former, then sure, take the money and be the Washington Generals of college football. If the latter, then demand that other teams reciprocate the visit. It's really that simple.

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That's fine.

But what if I just want a unique Cal football road-trip that has never occurred in my lifetime? Do I want to be so full of pride to say that I'd much rather have a home game vs. UNLV (which is what this game appears to be replacing based on the date) that I honestly have almost no interest in the opposing team, or would I rather be able to travel to Chicago (never had a reason to go) and have a fun trip there and also see my team play against one of the most storied programs in college football history?

I'd rather have the fun trip.

Cal getting money for it is a nice plus although it doesn't do much for me personally.

---

I've been to Chicago (in fact, I lives there for three years while I attended law school). It's not all that great. Sure, there are some great steakhouses, deep dish pizza, and Chicago dogs. Honestly, aside from the Chicago dogs, a Bay area native can find similar things at home. Personally, I much preferred Zachary's in Rockridge over the Chicago pizza joints, when it came to deep dish. As much as I came to love Chicago dogs (and Italian beef sandwiches), I've learned to live without them or to get them from Portillo's in SoCal or from a couple hot dog places in Las Vegas, you know, the city where UNLV is located. Heck, if you want to take a booze train, there's one in Napa Valley.

If you want to enjoy a game at ND, there's nothing to prevent you from going there. You can still take the train from Chicago to ND even if Cal isn't playing them. For that matter, there's nothing preventing you from visiting Chicago and doing whatever else you would've done there if you went for a Cal game. Of course, you could've just as easily made a trip to Chicago back when Cal played Northwestern in Evanston in 2014.

But to approve of Cal debasing itself by agreeing to be treated as some Div. I-AA school or some G5 school and agreeing to play at ND without a reciprocal game at Cal only goes to show in just how low esteem you hold Cal.

Again, it really is that simple.

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No, it really isn't that simple. Believe it or not, whether a school does a one game road series or gets a return date is not a topic of national sports conversation. No one cares. Any humiliation is purely your own feeling. I think there is a fair argument to be made for your side. I don't think Cal should make a habit of this. But there is a good argument for doing it as well.

I could just as easily say would you rather play UNLV at home or play Notre Dame on the road? Plus get paid. It is that simple.

FCS and non P-5 schools sell themselves in body bag games. That is not what is going on here. Notre Dame had a need for a home opponent. It is a one time shot. It is something our alums, coaches, players and recruits would like far more than a home game against a nondescript opponent. It will be a much more memorable experience for all. It is not a body bag game. It should be competitive. They are paying us because we are giving up a home game and it is necessary to make the finances work. I think if you stop and think about this for a second rather than react to something that isn't really happening (Cal selling itself out) it makes no sense to turn this down.

And yes, Notre Dame is the most storied NCAA football program. To reference Seinfeld, you're not Ted Danson.

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Again, no one is saying Cal shouldn't play at ND. We're saying Cal should okay at ND but only if ND agrees to reciprocate. As has been pointed out, ND could've done so by agreeing to use one of its (currently) open dates in 2025 for the Cal game at Memorial.

TheSouseFamily said:

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I like the game for a variety of reasons and I am excited to go to South Bend. I get that we'd prefer a home and home but let's be realistic. If you're Notre Dame, would you agree to a home and home with Cal? I wouldn't. We don't have much of a following and don't do much for ratings. Since 2000, we're 11th in the P12 in winning %. Sure, we're brimming with confidence and optimism on the heels of a 7 win and 8 win season but NF is coming off 11 and 12 win seasons. Oski willing, there will come a time when we've deserved and earned a home and home with a power like NE but we're not there now.

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So play hardball and have a firm line in the sand. Respect is earned not entitled. One has to have self-respect before earning it from others. By capitulating and agreeing to the one-off at ND, Cal is saying it does not respect itself as a legitimate P5 team.

Maybe Blueblood is right. Maybe you lot would be happier with Cal in the MWC. You surely don't consider Cal to be a legitimate P5 team, since you're onboard with it behaving like a G5 team.

01Bear said:

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Again, no one is saying Cal shouldn't play at ND. We're saying Cal should okay at ND but only if ND agrees to reciprocate. As has been pointed out, ND could've done so by agreeing to use one of its (currently) open dates in 2025 for the Cal game at Memorial.

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One thing bothers me about your posts. You say "ND refused a home-and-home." Unless you were in the negotiations, I don't see how you know that. It may be that a return visit is still under discussion, but IA decided to announce the 2022 game now to generate a buzz (I don't have any inside info, just raising a possibility. Maybe ND is waiting to see if the Ford contract is renewed. I don't know, and I'm willing to bet you don't either.

If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

UrsaMajor said:

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01Bear said:

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Again, no one is saying Cal shouldn't play at ND. We're saying Cal should okay at ND but only if ND agrees to reciprocate. As has been pointed out, ND could've done so by agreeing to use one of its (currently) open dates in 2025 for the Cal game at Memorial.

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One thing bothers me about your posts. You say "ND refused a home-and-home." Unless you were in the negotiations, I don't see how you know that. It may be that a return visit is still under discussion, but IA decided to announce the 2022 game now to generate a buzz (I don't have any inside info, just raising a possibility. Maybe ND is waiting to see if the Ford contract is renewed. I don't know, and I'm willing to bet you don't either.

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Fair enough. I'd be happy to concede that my word choice may have been wrong. I'll be happy to retract my statement that ND refused a home-and-home. It's possible Cal never offered the one-and-one option.

However, that only makes the actual situation that much worse. It would further underscore how little self-respect Cal has (or how little respect Jim Knowlton has for Cal).

TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

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Not what I'm saying at all. And the irony of the choice that you'd make leaves us playing someone like UNLV while the choice I (and Cal) would make leaves us playing Notre Dame.

TheSouseFamily said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

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Not what I'm saying at all. And the irony of the choice that you'd make leaves us playing someone like UNLV while the choice I (and Cal) would make leaves us playing Notre Dame.

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Playing at ND with no reciprocal game just makes Cal ND's b*itch. It tarnishes Cal's brand by displaying Cal's own lack of self-respect. It burnishes ND's (overinflated) brand by suggesting ND is somehow deigning to agree to allow Cal to step on its field, while it's too good to set foot on Memorial.

Maybe it's just how I grew up. But my friends and I understood that if one acted like a b*tch, he'd be treated like one. If one acted like a man, he'd be treated like one. Right now, Cal's acting like a b*tch. I hate to say this, but so are the apologists for this one-off game.

01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

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Not what I'm saying at all. And the irony of the choice that you'd make leaves us playing someone like UNLV while the choice I (and Cal) would make leaves us playing Notre Dame.

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Playing at ND with no reciprocal game just makes Cal ND's b*itch. It tarnishes Cal's brand by displaying Cal's own lack of self-respect. It burnishes ND's (overinflated) brand by suggesting ND is somehow deigning to agree to allow Cal to step on its field, while it's too good to set foot on Memorial.

Maybe it's just how I grew up. But my friends and I understood that if one acted like a b*tch, he'd be treated like one. If one acted like a man, he'd be treated like one. Right now, Cal's acting like a b*tch. I hate to say this, but so are the apologists for this one-off game.

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Again, I completely disagree. We are not saying that we should abandon reciprocal games with top programs, willy-nilly. We are saying that we like to have reciprocal games with top programs like Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee and Ohio State and we will continue to do so. However, if it makes sense to play a Notre Dame on the road every now and then, without a reciprocal agreement, we are fine with that, too, on a case-by-case basis.

In 2022, the national sports media isn't going to be talking about how we let ourselves be made Notre Dame's b****, they are going to be talking about us taking on this game with panache.

It's great that you "get" the concept of a reciprocal game and recognize that this is not an instance of one (yet).

It's great that you get the concept of a "body bag game for $$$" and recognize that we don't want to do that. However, this is not a body bag game. Our program is ascending and we will be going to South Bend to win, to get positive publicity as an emerging top-25 power (hopefully) and to recruit in the greater Chicago area. Moreover, it will be a great trip for the players (I guarantee you they are fired up for this) and for Cal fans that can make the trip and Cal fans who live in that area.

What you do not "get" is the bigger picture, with the other advantages this game can provide (see above). You are stuck in a "street" mindset from your youth. (Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you, but you were the one that brought up that analogy... one that can have its usefulness, but that doesn't apply in this case.)

I honestly think Cal views this as a showcase game opportunity with this mentality from one of the schools most of you dislike: "Anyone, Anytime, Anywhere."

Big C said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

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Not what I'm saying at all. And the irony of the choice that you'd make leaves us playing someone like UNLV while the choice I (and Cal) would make leaves us playing Notre Dame.

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Playing at ND with no reciprocal game just makes Cal ND's b*itch. It tarnishes Cal's brand by displaying Cal's own lack of self-respect. It burnishes ND's (overinflated) brand by suggesting ND is somehow deigning to agree to allow Cal to step on its field, while it's too good to set foot on Memorial.

Maybe it's just how I grew up. But my friends and I understood that if one acted like a b*tch, he'd be treated like one. If one acted like a man, he'd be treated like one. Right now, Cal's acting like a b*tch. I hate to say this, but so are the apologists for this one-off game.

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Again, I completely disagree. We are not saying that we should abandon reciprocal games with top programs, willy-nilly. We are saying that we like to have reciprocal games with top programs like Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee and Ohio State and we will continue to do so. However, if it makes sense to play a Notre Dame on the road every now and then, without a reciprocal agreement, we are fine with that, too.

In 2022, the national sports media isn't going to be talking about how we let ourselves be made Notre Dame's b****, they are going to be talking about us taking on this game with panache.

It's great that you "get" the concept of a reciprocal game and recognize that this is not an instance of it (at least not yet).

It's great that you get the concept of a "body bag game for $$$" and recognize that we don't want to do that. However, this is not a body bag game. Our program is ascending and we will be going to South Bend to win, to get positive publicity as an emerging national power and to recruit in the greater Chicago area. Moreover, it will be a great trip for the players (I guarantee you they are fired up by this) and for Cal fans that can make the trip and Cal fans who live in that area.

What you do not "get" is the bigger picture, with the other advantages this game can provide (see above). You are stuck in a "street" mindset from your youth. (Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you, but you were the one that brought up that analogy... one that can have its usefulness, but that doesn't apply in this case.)

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Actually, it's not just a street mentality. Among peers, honor and etiquette require that if one is invited into another's home, one extend n invitation in return. Accordingly, unless Cal doesn't believe itself to be an equal of ND, then Cal must extend the same invitation to ND. For ND to refuse the invitation would be an insult.

The act a b*tch, be treated like one idea is also not just a "street mentality." It's part of American culture, as exhibited in the adage "dress for the job you want, not the job you have." It's meant as more than sartorial advice. Rather, it's intended to remind people that others will treat you how you treat yourself. If you bow and scrape, people will treat you as an inferior. If you walk nobly with head high and back straight, people will treat you with respect.

In short, your "bigger picture" is being undercut by the very appearance of Cal's acquiescing to be treated like ND's b*tch/inferior instead of demanding it be treated as ND's peer.

01Bear said:

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Big C said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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01Bear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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If the choice is an one-off at ND versus no game at all (and playing someone like UNLV), I'll take the ND game. Are you suggesting that if you were ND, you'd be willing to be play a home and home? Just don't think that's very likely. So, a choice has to be made and I think I we made the right choice.

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I get it, you don't think Cal is worthy of the respect due a legitimate P5 team. That's really what your choice says about you and Cal.

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Not what I'm saying at all. And the irony of the choice that you'd make leaves us playing someone like UNLV while the choice I (and Cal) would make leaves us playing Notre Dame.

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Playing at ND with no reciprocal game just makes Cal ND's b*itch. It tarnishes Cal's brand by displaying Cal's own lack of self-respect. It burnishes ND's (overinflated) brand by suggesting ND is somehow deigning to agree to allow Cal to step on its field, while it's too good to set foot on Memorial.

Maybe it's just how I grew up. But my friends and I understood that if one acted like a b*tch, he'd be treated like one. If one acted like a man, he'd be treated like one. Right now, Cal's acting like a b*tch. I hate to say this, but so are the apologists for this one-off game.

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Again, I completely disagree. We are not saying that we should abandon reciprocal games with top programs, willy-nilly. We are saying that we like to have reciprocal games with top programs like Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee and Ohio State and we will continue to do so. However, if it makes sense to play a Notre Dame on the road every now and then, without a reciprocal agreement, we are fine with that, too.

In 2022, the national sports media isn't going to be talking about how we let ourselves be made Notre Dame's b****, they are going to be talking about us taking on this game with panache.

It's great that you "get" the concept of a reciprocal game and recognize that this is not an instance of it (at least not yet).

It's great that you get the concept of a "body bag game for $$$" and recognize that we don't want to do that. However, this is not a body bag game. Our program is ascending and we will be going to South Bend to win, to get positive publicity as an emerging national power and to recruit in the greater Chicago area. Moreover, it will be a great trip for the players (I guarantee you they are fired up by this) and for Cal fans that can make the trip and Cal fans who live in that area.

What you do not "get" is the bigger picture, with the other advantages this game can provide (see above). You are stuck in a "street" mindset from your youth. (Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you, but you were the one that brought up that analogy... one that can have its usefulness, but that doesn't apply in this case.)

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Actually, it's not just a street mentality. Among peers, honor and etiquette require that if one is invited into another's home, one extend n invitation in return. Accordingly, unless Cal doesn't believe itself to be an equal of ND, then Cal must extend the same invitation to ND. For ND to refuse the invitation would be an insult.

The act a b*tch, be treated like one idea is also not just a "street mentality." It's part of American culture, as exhibited in the adage "dress for the job you want, not the job you have." It's meant as more than sartorial advice. Rather, it's intended to remind people that others will treat you how you treat yourself. If you bow and scrape, people will treat you as an inferior. If you walk nobly with head high and back straight, people will treat you with respect.

In short, your "bigger picture" is being undercut by the very appearance of Cal's acquiescing to be treated like ND's b*tch/inferior instead of demanding it be treated as ND's peer.

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Well, I guess we will agree to disagree on this issue and that's okay. I will keep your view under consideration and would urge you to also consider what others are writing about this (pro and con). Many interesting viewpoints on the Bear Insider board, btw.

Go Bears!

I don't want Cal to play any team on their terms like this. Not having a home game in this series is a mark of inferiority. Stanford was able to extract alternating home games from these *******s. Why can't we? For that matter Alabama has never played in Berkeley or even the bay area. The day will come when ND will want to play us desperately. I hope we refuse except even if we are the home team.

The problem is the athletic department. They simply cannot say no. If they were teenage girls they would be pregnant all the time. This is why we have all the night games that most other people (but not me) hate so much. The athletic department cannot say no. They will do anything for exposure. Then, when we lose, we will be worse off than before.

MugsVanSant said:

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The problem is the athletic department. They simply cannot say no. If they were teenage girls they would be pregnant all the time. This is why we have all the night games that most other people (but not me) hate so much. The athletic department cannot say no. They will do anything for exposure. Then, when we lose, we will be worse off than before.

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Regardless of whatever has been said in this thread so far...what the ****?

Is it my imagination, or do we seem to be split into two camps on this issue?

Probably. I wonder if views on this and views on that are connected in some way.

MoragaBear said:

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Notre Dame is scheduled out for years. EVERYONE wants them on their schedule. There was supposedly no way to make a return game work. Just way too much juggling involved.

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According to fbschedules.com Notre Dame is only fully scheduled for next season and 2021. They have ten games already scheduled for each season between 2022 and 2025, after which their number of scheduled games drops to single digits.

We waited 6 years to get our return visit from Michigan State. If it takes longer then so be it, both of our programs would still be around in 2030 if it took that long. Being "scheduled out for years" should have nothing to do with this. Obviously ND did not wish to make a return visit and our AD was willing to accommodate, and our motives for doing so are fairly obvious at this point.

Quote:

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If the choice is between adding an amazing roadtrip that will simultaneously reward our fans, raise our profile, add 1.9m in revenue but not get a return trip vs. status quo, there's not even a millimeter of doubt in my mind about taking option 1.

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Reward our fans? You mean the ~5,000 who will be making the trip, not the other ~30,000 (or more) who would have attended our scheduled home game vs UNLV. They are "rewarded" with the amazing experience of watching television from their couch.

Raise our profile? Only if we win. Consider the following:

-- Since 2010, Pac-12 teams are 3-24 when visiting ranked OOC teams (including 0-4 at "neutral" sites that were much closer to the OOC's home) and 19-8 when hosting ranked OOC teams. Ranked Pac-12 teams are 1-11 away (plus "neutral") and 8-0 at home.

-- Since 2010 (the year Brian Kelly became HC), Notre Dame is 7-3 vs Pac-12 teams at home, 4-7 on the road (not counting a win vs ASU at a neutral site in Texas).

-- Since 2000, we have played four games vs ranked OOC teams on the road (including a game vs KSU in Kansas City, MO) and went 1-3.

Add 1.9m in revenue? You forgot to subtract the anticipated revenue from the home game we jettisoned. I don't know what that would have brought in, but it would considerably offset the $1.9m (from which our travel expenses must also be deducted, which are not trivial).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a terrible option. Aside from whatever small (in the big picture) revenue we might get, the only winners here are the small minority of Cal fans with the disposable income (and inclination) to make the trip. The losers are the tens of thousands of Cal fans who won't/can't make the trip along with the competitive health of the program itself, which trades a likely OOC win in 2022 vs UNLV for a likely loss vs ND without the prospect of getting a crack at ND in our house where we might face them with a much better chance of getting the win.

Cave Bear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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Notre Dame is scheduled out for years. EVERYONE wants them on their schedule. There was supposedly no way to make a return game work. Just way too much juggling involved.

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According to fbschedules.com Notre Dame is only fully scheduled for next season and 2021. They have ten games already scheduled for each season between 2022 and 2025, after which their number of scheduled games drops to single digits.

We waited 6 years to get our return visit from Michigan State. If it takes longer then so be it, both of our programs would still be around in 2030 if it took that long. Being "scheduled out for years" should have nothing to do with this. Obviously ND did not wish to make a return visit and our AD was willing to accommodate, and our motives for doing so are fairly obvious at this point.

Quote:

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If the choice is between adding an amazing roadtrip that will simultaneously reward our fans, raise our profile, add 1.9m in revenue but not get a return trip vs. status quo, there's not even a millimeter of doubt in my mind about taking option 1.

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Reward our fans? You mean the ~5,000 who will be making the trip, not the other ~30,000 (or more) who would have attended our scheduled home game vs UNLV. They are "rewarded" with the amazing experience of watching television from their couch.

Raise our profile? Only if we win. Consider the following:

-- Since 2010, Pac-12 teams are 3-24 when visiting ranked OOC teams (including 0-4 at "neutral" sites that were much closer to the OOC's home) and 19-8 when hosting ranked OOC teams. Ranked Pac-12 teams are 1-11 away (plus "neutral") and 8-0 at home.

-- Since 2010 (the year Brian Kelly became HC), Notre Dame is 7-3 vs Pac-12 teams at home, 4-7 on the road (not counting a win vs ASU at a neutral site in Texas).

-- Since 2000, we have played four games vs ranked OOC teams on the road (including a game vs KSU in Kansas City, MO) and went 1-3.

Add 1.9m in revenue? You forgot to subtract the anticipated revenue from the home game we jettisoned. I don't know what that would have brought in, but it would considerably offset the $1.9m (from which our travel expenses must also be deducted, which are not trivial).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a terrible option. Aside from whatever small (in the big picture) revenue we might get, the only winners here are the small minority of Cal fans with the disposable income (and inclination) to make the trip. The losers are the tens of thousands of Cal fans who won't/can't make the trip along with the competitive health of the program itself, which trades a likely OOC win in 2022 vs UNLV for a likely loss vs ND without the prospect of getting a crack at ND in our house where we might face them with a much better chance of getting the win.

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You want to ask the players whether they want to playa home game against UNLV or a game at Notre Dame? Do you think you'll get a single vote for the former?

Maybe our AD should have instead negotiated a 2-1 home and away with ND, two in SB and one in Berkeley in 2025 or 27.

This being said, really looking forward to this, hope I can wing this trip! I almost made the NWU road game and had to cancel at the last minute.

OaktownBear said:

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Cave Bear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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Notre Dame is scheduled out for years. EVERYONE wants them on their schedule. There was supposedly no way to make a return game work. Just way too much juggling involved.

---

According to fbschedules.com Notre Dame is only fully scheduled for next season and 2021. They have ten games already scheduled for each season between 2022 and 2025, after which their number of scheduled games drops to single digits.

We waited 6 years to get our return visit from Michigan State. If it takes longer then so be it, both of our programs would still be around in 2030 if it took that long. Being "scheduled out for years" should have nothing to do with this. Obviously ND did not wish to make a return visit and our AD was willing to accommodate, and our motives for doing so are fairly obvious at this point.

Quote:

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If the choice is between adding an amazing roadtrip that will simultaneously reward our fans, raise our profile, add 1.9m in revenue but not get a return trip vs. status quo, there's not even a millimeter of doubt in my mind about taking option 1.

---

Reward our fans? You mean the ~5,000 who will be making the trip, not the other ~30,000 (or more) who would have attended our scheduled home game vs UNLV. They are "rewarded" with the amazing experience of watching television from their couch.

Raise our profile? Only if we win. Consider the following:

-- Since 2010, Pac-12 teams are 3-24 when visiting ranked OOC teams (including 0-4 at "neutral" sites that were much closer to the OOC's home) and 19-8 when hosting ranked OOC teams. Ranked Pac-12 teams are 1-11 away (plus "neutral") and 8-0 at home.

-- Since 2010 (the year Brian Kelly became HC), Notre Dame is 7-3 vs Pac-12 teams at home, 4-7 on the road (not counting a win vs ASU at a neutral site in Texas).

-- Since 2000, we have played four games vs ranked OOC teams on the road (including a game vs KSU in Kansas City, MO) and went 1-3.

Add 1.9m in revenue? You forgot to subtract the anticipated revenue from the home game we jettisoned. I don't know what that would have brought in, but it would considerably offset the $1.9m (from which our travel expenses must also be deducted, which are not trivial).

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a terrible option. Aside from whatever small (in the big picture) revenue we might get, the only winners here are the small minority of Cal fans with the disposable income (and inclination) to make the trip. The losers are the tens of thousands of Cal fans who won't/can't make the trip along with the competitive health of the program itself, which trades a likely OOC win in 2022 vs UNLV for a likely loss vs ND without the prospect of getting a crack at ND in our house where we might face them with a much better chance of getting the win.

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You want to ask the players whether they want to playa home game against UNLV or a game at Notre Dame? Do you think you'll get a single vote for the former?

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You want to ask the players if they are okay being disrespected by ND, the Cal administration, and the multitude of Cal players who seem to agree that Cal is not a peer of ND's? That these folks all believe Cal is so inferior to the South Bend team that they are okay with ND not reciprocating with a game at Cal?

Cal88 said:

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Maybe our AD should have instead negotiated a 2-1 home and away with ND, two in SB and one in Berkeley in 2025 or 27.

This being said, really looking forward to this, hope I can wing this trip! I almost made the NWU road game and had to cancel at the last minute.

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Why do you insist on rolling over for ND and licking its boots? Cal is a peer school. It does not need to kiss ND's ring (nor some body part/appendage).

If you, ostensibly a Cal fan, have such little respect for Cal, it's no wonder that non-Cal fans think so poorly of it.