drizzlybear said:

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Big C said:

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LateHit said:

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I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

The best way to have guaranteed stable and quality basketball would have been to not hire a completely unqualified coach in Wyking Jones. COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED. Cal announced to the nation on that day that they were not interested in competing in men's basketball.

This was a self-inflicted wound. Excuse me if I'm not as emotionally invested as I used to be. All the other former Cal fans I know have completely checked out. Life is too short to deal with asshats like Mike Williams and deer-in-the-deadlights guys like Wyking Jones.

I'm 100% in "show me" mode. A good start would be to hire a good coach and return the retired jerseys and championship banners to the rafters of Haas where they belong. IMO, it was apparent from the very first day that Fox wasn't the right guy.

drizzlybear said:

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Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

oskidunker said:

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Joined Oregon State PureOrange on facebook. They want to fire Tinkle because they are tired of finishing in the middle of the Pac. We would kill for middle of thePac.

---

Tinkle has been at OSU for 6 full normal years (plus this misbegotten "season"), and he inherited a middle-of-the-conference team.

I would think that Cal fans would also want to fire Fox five years from now if he also is still struggling to get above .500, despite the fact that Fox inherited a much worse team than did Tinkle.

Btw, I would not kill for middle of the pac. I'm not trying to be literal, I mean that middle-of-the-pac is not good enough for me. The level of expectations that I believe Cal should be realistically striving for is a top half/top third/occasional challenge for conference title program. I've got no use for a middle-of-the-pac team. Once a coach has clearly and fairly shown he's not capable of meeting that level, we should be looking for another coach. Fwiw, we're not close to that point with Fox. He deserves at least two more full/normal seasons (absent abject failure or misconduct next season).

drizzlybear said:

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Big C said:

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LateHit said:

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I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

I hate when some people put anyone with a different opinion, or different way of expressing their opinion, in one bucket and then paint them with an extreme view.

it's also a common thing to exaggerate how many people are in that bucket.

Basically creating a strawman and arguing against that, when in actuality there are few, or none with that position

This is a type of fallacy / tactic. It's much easier to win an argument against a strawman

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

A week ago, at least one poster wrote that Fox was doing a "very good" job and I seem to recall other, similar sentiments. After Grant Ant's breakout weekend last month, at least one poster identified him as an NBA prospect. The hype about Celestine has been a bit overblown, IMO.

Hey, I will admit, things were looking brighter a week ago! I guess my point is that let's not get too high (or too low), week to week. Kind of a pet peeve of mine, here.

As for my fanhood, okay, I missed the last two games and I'm not ashamed to say that I missed the last one sort of on purpose, but I'm not going anywhere (even to Haas, unfortunately). Been a pretty big Cal Football and Basketball fan for 45 years now (started when I was a gleam in my daddy's eye, lol). Having attended approximately 500 Cal Basketball games in person earns me the right to b**** and let off a little steam now and then. I will be back in the Haas as soon as they let me back in. Others may not.

Go Bears. (hard for me to attach an exclamation mark there right now)

Big C said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

A week ago, at least one poster wrote that Fox was doing a "very good" job and I seem to recall other, similar sentiments. After Grant Ant's breakout weekend last month, at least one poster identified him as an NBA prospect. The hype about Celestine has been a bit overblown, IMO.

Hey, I will admit, things were looking brighter a week ago! I guess my point is that let's not get too high (or too low), week to week. Kind of a pet peeve of mine, here.

As for my fanhood, okay, I missed the last two games and I'm not ashamed to say that I missed the last one sort of on purpose, but I'm not going anywhere (even to Haas, unfortunately). Been a pretty big Cal Football and Basketball fan for 45 years now (started when I was a gleam in my daddy's eye, lol). Having attended approximately 500 Cal Basketball games in person earns me the right to b**** and let off a little steam now and then. I will be back in the Haas as soon as they let me back in. Others may not.

Go Bears. (hard for me to attach an exclamation mark there right now)

---

I'm good with that, fwiw.

Big C said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

A week ago, at least one poster wrote that Fox was doing a "very good" job and I seem to recall other, similar sentiments. After Grant Ant's breakout weekend last month, at least one poster identified him as an NBA prospect. The hype about Celestine has been a bit overblown, IMO.

Hey, I will admit, things were looking brighter a week ago! I guess my point is that let's not get too high (or too low), week to week. Kind of a pet peeve of mine, here.

As for my fanhood, okay, I missed the last two games and I'm not ashamed to say that I missed the last one sort of on purpose, but I'm not going anywhere (even to Haas, unfortunately). Been a pretty big Cal Football and Basketball fan for 45 years now (started when I was a gleam in my daddy's eye, lol). Having attended approximately 500 Cal Basketball games in person earns me the right to b**** and let off a little steam now and then. I will be back in the Haas as soon as they let me back in. Others may not.

Go Bears. (hard for me to attach an exclamation mark there right now)

---

well, I actually thought it was uncharacteristic of you Big C when you posted your bold statement above

but I only used your post as an example, as the strawman tactic is a live and well on cal sports boards (and probably all sports boards)

by the way, I'd take Kelly over the majority of centers in the pac12. of course there are better ones like 5 star USC Mobley, but he's out playing most and is a great team player

HoopDreams said:

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Big C said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

A week ago, at least one poster wrote that Fox was doing a "very good" job and I seem to recall other, similar sentiments. After Grant Ant's breakout weekend last month, at least one poster identified him as an NBA prospect. The hype about Celestine has been a bit overblown, IMO.

Hey, I will admit, things were looking brighter a week ago! I guess my point is that let's not get too high (or too low), week to week. Kind of a pet peeve of mine, here.

As for my fanhood, okay, I missed the last two games and I'm not ashamed to say that I missed the last one sort of on purpose, but I'm not going anywhere (even to Haas, unfortunately). Been a pretty big Cal Football and Basketball fan for 45 years now (started when I was a gleam in my daddy's eye, lol). Having attended approximately 500 Cal Basketball games in person earns me the right to b**** and let off a little steam now and then. I will be back in the Haas as soon as they let me back in. Others may not.

Go Bears. (hard for me to attach an exclamation mark there right now)

---

well, I actually thought it was uncharacteristic of you Big C when you posted your bold statement above

but I only used your post as an example, as the strawman tactic is a live and well on cal sports boards (and probably all sports boards)

by the way, I'd take Kelly over the majority of centers in the pac12. of course there are better ones like 5 star USC Mobley, but he's out playing most and is a great team player

---

Wait, you were referring to me?!? @#$%^&*!!!

Just kidding. Kelly's our second best player, surely. I'm really hoping he and Grant have their very best seasons for us next year! (if Grant actually returns... they would be our senior leaders)

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

The best way to have guaranteed stable and quality basketball would have been to not hire a completely unqualified coach in Wyking Jones. COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED. Cal announced to the nation on that day that they were not interested in competing in men's basketball.

This was a self-inflicted wound. Excuse me if I'm not as emotionally invested as I used to be. All the other former Cal fans I know have completely checked out. Life is too short to deal with asshats like Mike Williams and deer-in-the-deadlights guys like Wyking Jones.

I'm 100% in "show me" mode. A good start would be to hire a good coach and return the retired jerseys and championship banners to the rafters of Haas where they belong. IMO, it was apparent from the very first day that Fox wasn't the right guy.

---

"Asshat" is a super strong and ugly word for a school official who, if nothing else, was (I believe, though I don't know him personally) trying to do his best in a difficult interim role that he never asked to be in. In fact, it's my impression that he actually made a bold and deft and widely celebrated move to fire Sonny Dykes and hire Justin Wilcox, again, while in an interim role, right?

OaktownBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

1. You have surprisingly low regard for your fellow Cal community. Sorry you find yourself a part of that community.

2. You use quotation marks and yet I'm not sure who you are quoting.

The timing of firing Holmoe was perfect. There is real value in consensus among the constituents and it resulted in one of the best coaching hires Cal has ever made. Do you spend a lot of time with Cal fans who did not support firing Holmoe when he was fired? You shouldn't. It doesn't seem to sit with you well.

"Swipe"?

I've been on this site since the cyberbears days myself and don't believe I've succeeded (not that I've ever tried) in driving anyone off the site, including BigC. So I think s/he's safe.

Wilcox has not yet proven to be a good hire. Awful conference record and has only produced competence in half of a football team. Not unlike the guy he replaced. The best hire MW made to this point is the W. Crew coach.

socaliganbear said:

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Wilcox has not yet proven to be a good hire. Awful conference record and has only produced competence in half of a football team. Not unlike the guy he replaced. The best hire MW made to this point is the W. Crew coach.

---

It was a hire that was universally celebrated within the Cal community, and well-reviewed by external observers. And he appears to still have wide-spread approval among the Cal sports community. Overall, it doesn't appear to be regarded as a hiring decision that has the markings of an "asshat".

drizzlybear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Joined Oregon State PureOrange on facebook. They want to fire Tinkle because they are tired of finishing in the middle of the Pac. We would kill for middle of thePac.

---

Tinkle has been at OSU for 6 full normal years (plus this misbegotten "season"), and he inherited a middle-of-the-conference team.

I would think that Cal fans would also want to fire Fox five years from now if he also is still struggling to get above .500, despite the fact that Fox inherited a much worse team than did Tinkle.

Btw, I would not kill for middle of the pac. I'm not trying to be literal, I mean that middle-of-the-pac is not good enough for me. The level of expectations that I believe Cal should be realistically striving for is a top half/top third/occasional challenge for conference title program. I've got no use for a middle-of-the-pac team. Once a coach has clearly and fairly shown he's not capable of meeting that level, we should be looking for another coach. Fwiw, we're not close to that point with Fox. He deserves at least two more full/normal seasons (absent abject failure or misconduct next season).

---

.

Good post. I would modify only that I don't really care what the coach "deserves" as he will get paid by us no matter what. With regard to coaches, we always need to do what is best for Cal. They are highly paid professionals, it comes with the territory. That said, I don't think we are in a financial position to move on from Fox anytime soon. I just hope we don't extend his contract without substantial evidence that he is capable of getting us to at least top 4 in the conference with regular NCAA Tournament appearances.

drizzlybear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

1. You have surprisingly low regard for your fellow Cal community. Sorry you find yourself a part of that community.

2. You use quotation marks and yet I'm not sure who you are quoting.

The timing of firing Holmoe was perfect. There is real value in consensus among the constituents and it resulted in one of the best coaching hires Cal has ever made. Do you spend a lot of time with Cal fans who did not support firing Holmoe when he was fired? You shouldn't. It doesn't seem to sit with you well.

"Swipe"?

I've been on this site since the cyberbears days myself and don't believe I've succeeded (not that I've ever tried) in driving anyone off the site, including BigC. So I think s/he's safe.

---

Holmoe should have been fired an hour before the press conference announcing his hire. He then should have been fired at the end of every season. The hire was moronic. Not firing him for 5 years was moronic. I can't fathom that anyone could say in hindsight that the timing was perfect. Because they waited so long Holmoe cratered attendance and it took 3 years of success to dig out of that. Tedford having success had nothing to do with waiting way too long to fire Holmoe.

No, consensus is not necessary especially when there are people in the fan base who are completely clueless about coaching and think you have to give every coach 4 or 5 years to recruit even when they show no progress. Cal has an unfortunate penchant for not firing coaches until the players completely pack it in.

You clearly took a swipe at BigC's opinion based on his saying he didn't watch the games as if it took a lot of deep analysis to determine that having our ass handed to us, taken away and handed back to us again against the 9th place team and not presenting a challenge to the second to last place team was bad.

Watching every game does not make you smarter or more knowledgeable. Some would say it indicates the opposite

drizzlybear said:

---

Chapman_is_Gone said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

The best way to have guaranteed stable and quality basketball would have been to not hire a completely unqualified coach in Wyking Jones. COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED. Cal announced to the nation on that day that they were not interested in competing in men's basketball.

This was a self-inflicted wound. Excuse me if I'm not as emotionally invested as I used to be. All the other former Cal fans I know have completely checked out. Life is too short to deal with asshats like Mike Williams and deer-in-the-deadlights guys like Wyking Jones.

I'm 100% in "show me" mode. A good start would be to hire a good coach and return the retired jerseys and championship banners to the rafters of Haas where they belong. IMO, it was apparent from the very first day that Fox wasn't the right guy.

---

"Asshat" is a super strong and ugly word for a school official who, if nothing else, was (I believe, though I don't know him personally) trying to do his best in a difficult interim role that he never asked to be in. In fact, it's my impression that he actually made a bold and deft and widely celebrated move to fire Sonny Dykes and hire Justin Wilcox, again, while in an interim role, right?

---

To paraphrase Scott Lang, what strong and ugly. He said "hat".

drizzlybear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

1. You have surprisingly low regard for your fellow Cal community. Sorry you find yourself a part of that community.

2. You use quotation marks and yet I'm not sure who you are quoting.

The timing of firing Holmoe was perfect. There is real value in consensus among the constituents and it resulted in one of the best coaching hires Cal has ever made. Do you spend a lot of time with Cal fans who did not support firing Holmoe when he was fired? You shouldn't. It doesn't seem to sit with you well.

"Swipe"?

I've been on this site since the cyberbears days myself and don't believe I've succeeded (not that I've ever tried) in driving anyone off the site, including BigC. So I think s/he's safe.

---

I'm curious how you happened to know that I'm "gender fluid"?

Quote:

---

I'm curious how you happened to know that I'm "gender fluid"?

---

This whole thread is turning into lighter fluid. We could use some of that Texas chill.

HoopDreams said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

so let see ...

#1 translates to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation is a monkey

#2 -- so are you going to pay the buyout?

#2a translate to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation also would support Tom Holmoe for 26 years ... ok, I'm starting to see a pattern here

#2b after calling everyone who doesn't agree with you or how you characterize the situation a monkey you call another poster an 'asshat' (what ever that is)

#3c and you say HE is chasing everyone else away?

---

1. Geez. I said they were in the monkey house, not that they were monkeys. This is a common phrase. It refers to when you walk in the monkey house, you get hit with the stench and think it stinks. The longer you stay in the monkey house, the more you get used to the smell until you don't notice it. It refers to humans. This is a common reference. I can't be responsible for you taking offense because you don't know it.

2. Oh eff that cop out bullshyte retort. Everything with you guys is a way to shut up all criticism. Did you want to keep Wyking? Did you pay his buyout? Have you paid any coach buyout ever? No one is required to have several million dollars to waste in order to have an opinion. Especially when they didn't support the stupid decision that now requires a buyout to correct

2a- we already see the pattern of the same arguments (including the bullshyte buyout retort) being used in support of every poor coaching hire. All these same arguments were made for Holmoe and others. The predictably is nauseating

2b didn't call anyone a monkey. Apparently you have never heard the term asshat either. Maybe spend less time watching bad basketball and more time in the world. Meanwhile you went after a very reasonable poster who posted very reasonable criticism because you have never been able to deal with any statements darker than an episode of My Little Pony. My response was not about people disagreeing with me. It was about drizzly taking a shot at BigC's opinion because he admitted he didn't watch the game. You didn't care about drizzly criticizing a poster because he takes the same Orange slices for everyone approach to college basketball that you do. If that is what you two want to do, fine. You can't expect it from the rest of us.

3c - I'll take the hit on that one. I didn't mean he would chase everyone away with his lame criticism. I meant the stupid strategy on coaching personnel would chase everyone away. (Pretty much already has). But that was entirely unclear at my part. That said, sorry, not sorry. It is quite clear that there are five or so of you that really enjoy your cloud cuckoo land bubble you have here where no one criticizes because the people that actually care about results have left. Dare I say, I think deep down you enjoy going 3-15 with rainbow bright posters rather than winning and having knowledgeable posters invade your bubble and breakdown games including a reasonable amount of criticism.

OaktownBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

so let see ...

#1 translates to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation is a monkey

#2 -- so are you going to pay the buyout?

#2a translate to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation also would support Tom Holmoe for 26 years ... ok, I'm starting to see a pattern here

#2b after calling everyone who doesn't agree with you or how you characterize the situation a monkey you call another poster an 'asshat' (what ever that is)

#3c and you say HE is chasing everyone else away?

---

1. Geez. I said they were in the monkey house, not that they were monkeys. This is a common phrase. It refers to when you walk in the monkey house, you get hit with the stench and think it stinks. The longer you stay in the monkey house, the more you get used to the smell until you don't notice it. It refers to humans. This is a common reference. I can't be responsible for you taking offense because you don't know it.

2. Oh eff that cop out bullshyte retort. Everything with you guys is a way to shut up all criticism. Did you want to keep Wyking? Did you pay his buyout? Have you paid any coach buyout ever? No one is required to have several million dollars to waste in order to have an opinion. Especially when they didn't support the stupid decision that now requires a buyout to correct

2a- we already see the pattern of the same arguments (including the bullshyte buyout retort) being used in support of every poor coaching hire. All these same arguments were made for Holmoe and others. The predictably is nauseating

2b didn't call anyone a monkey. Apparently you have never heard the term asshat either. Maybe spend less time watching bad basketball and more time in the world. Meanwhile you went after a very reasonable poster who posted very reasonable criticism because you have never been able to deal with any statements darker than an episode of My Little Pony. My response was not about people disagreeing with me. It was about drizzly taking a shot at BigC's opinion because he admitted he didn't watch the game. You didn't care about drizzly criticizing a poster because he takes the same Orange slices for everyone approach to college basketball that you do. If that is what you two want to do, fine. You can't expect it from the rest of us.

3c - I'll take the hit on that one. I didn't mean he would chase everyone away with his lame criticism. I meant the stupid strategy on coaching personnel would chase everyone away. (Pretty much already has). But that was entirely unclear at my part. That said, sorry, not sorry. It is quite clear that there are five or so of you that really enjoy your cloud cuckoo land bubble you have here where no one criticizes because the people that actually care about results have left. Dare I say, I think deep down you enjoy going 3-15 with rainbow bright posters rather than winning and having knowledgeable posters invade your bubble and breakdown games including a reasonable amount of criticism.

---

my bad. I have never heard of monkey house nor asshat. you got me there!

not sure how many times you called me a name or threw out insults, but what drizzly said to BigC was:

"What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen."

Yeah, what a flaming insult!

I have no problem with people criticizing the coach. I do it myself sometimes when I question some of his game planning, etc. I'm sure there are a few times that it sounded like I think Fox is a good coach. For example, when I said he was a better 'game coach' than the coach who always seems to do less with more.

But point out a time that I actually said Fox is a good or very good coach, or the right coach for Cal?

I just ride with the cal coach until they are no longer the cal coach. Just unclear what it accomplishes to constantly call for his firing on the internet.

Ok, heading back to my cloud cuckoo (another term I ignorantly don't know) land bubble

HoopDreams said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

drizzlybear said:

---

Big C said:

---

LateHit said:

---

I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

---

I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

---

I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

---

1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

---

so let see ...

#1 translates to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation is a monkey

#2 -- so are you going to pay the buyout?

#2a translate to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation also would support Tom Holmoe for 26 years ... ok, I'm starting to see a pattern here

#2b after calling everyone who doesn't agree with you or how you characterize the situation a monkey you call another poster an 'asshat' (what ever that is)

#3c and you say HE is chasing everyone else away?

---

1. Geez. I said they were in the monkey house, not that they were monkeys. This is a common phrase. It refers to when you walk in the monkey house, you get hit with the stench and think it stinks. The longer you stay in the monkey house, the more you get used to the smell until you don't notice it. It refers to humans. This is a common reference. I can't be responsible for you taking offense because you don't know it.

2. Oh eff that cop out bullshyte retort. Everything with you guys is a way to shut up all criticism. Did you want to keep Wyking? Did you pay his buyout? Have you paid any coach buyout ever? No one is required to have several million dollars to waste in order to have an opinion. Especially when they didn't support the stupid decision that now requires a buyout to correct

2a- we already see the pattern of the same arguments (including the bullshyte buyout retort) being used in support of every poor coaching hire. All these same arguments were made for Holmoe and others. The predictably is nauseating

2b didn't call anyone a monkey. Apparently you have never heard the term asshat either. Maybe spend less time watching bad basketball and more time in the world. Meanwhile you went after a very reasonable poster who posted very reasonable criticism because you have never been able to deal with any statements darker than an episode of My Little Pony. My response was not about people disagreeing with me. It was about drizzly taking a shot at BigC's opinion because he admitted he didn't watch the game. You didn't care about drizzly criticizing a poster because he takes the same Orange slices for everyone approach to college basketball that you do. If that is what you two want to do, fine. You can't expect it from the rest of us.

3c - I'll take the hit on that one. I didn't mean he would chase everyone away with his lame criticism. I meant the stupid strategy on coaching personnel would chase everyone away. (Pretty much already has). But that was entirely unclear at my part. That said, sorry, not sorry. It is quite clear that there are five or so of you that really enjoy your cloud cuckoo land bubble you have here where no one criticizes because the people that actually care about results have left. Dare I say, I think deep down you enjoy going 3-15 with rainbow bright posters rather than winning and having knowledgeable posters invade your bubble and breakdown games including a reasonable amount of criticism.

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my bad. I have never heard of monkey house nor asshat. you got me there!

not sure how many times you called me a name or threw out insults, but what drizzly said to BigC was:

"What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen."

Yeah, what a flaming insult!

I have no problem with people criticizing the coach. I do it myself sometimes when I question some of his game planning, etc. I'm sure there are a few times that it sounded like I think Fox is a good coach. For example, when I said he was a better 'game coach' than the coach who always seems to do less with more.

But point out a time that I actually said Fox is a good or very good coach, or the right coach for Cal?

I just ride with the cal coach until they are no longer the cal coach. Just unclear what it accomplishes to constantly call for his firing on the internet.

Ok, heading back to my cloud cuckoo (another term I ignorantly don't know) land bubble

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Cloud-cuckoo-land | Definition of Cloud-cuckoo-land by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

Cloud cuckoo land - Wikipedia

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristophanes][/url]

Quote:

---

Aristophanes, a Greek playwright, wrote and directed a drama The Birds, first performed in 414 BC, in which Pisthetaerus, a middle-aged Athenian persuades the world's birds to create a new city in the sky to be named Nubicuculia or Cloud Cuckoo Land[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-3][3][/url] (, Nephelokokkygia), thereby gaining control over all communications between men and gods.

The phrase has been used by British and American politicians as well as writers. Margaret Thatcher used this phrase in the 1980s: "The ANC is a typical terrorist organisation... Anyone who thinks it is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-6][6][/url]

Newt Gingrich referred to Barack Obama's claim that algae could be used as a fuel source as cloud cuckoo land.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-9][9][/url] Henry A. Wallace, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (later U.S. Vice President in Franklin D. Roosevelt's third term) used the term to describe the unrealistically inflated value of stocks on the New York Stock Exchange just before the crash of 1929 that signaled the onset of the Great Depression.

Paul Krugman used the phrase referring to inadequate German economic politics toward failing members of the European Union: "Basically, it seems that even as the euro approaches a critical juncture, senior German officials are living in Wolkenkuckucksheimcloud-cuckoo land." (June 9, 2012).[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-10][10][/url]

---

Asshat | Definition of Asshat by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

Where did "asshat" come from? | Pop Lexicon - YouTube

Yeah baby: Posters are starting to, once again, BRING THE PASSION!

Coach is orchestrating all this: We are all just players in the Mark Fox Grand Plan to Restore Excitement to California Basketball! So this Thursday, put on your official Cal Asshats and tune in as we take it to the Beavers!

Big C said:

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Yeah baby: Posters are starting to, once again, BRING THE PASSION!

Coach is orchestrating all this: We are all just players in the Mark Fox Grand Plan to Restore Excitement to California Basketball! So this Thursday, put on your official Cal Asshats and tune in as we take it to the Beavers!

---

I only regret that I could not find a quote from Aristophanes using the word asshat.

Hey Oak

Thanks for educating the ignorant

Peace

OaktownBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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OaktownBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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OaktownBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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Big C said:

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LateHit said:

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I watched every minute of the last two games and either the players are not listening or the coaches are not able to teach the basics.
Do not pass into the paint when your target is double or triple covered.
Do not dribble into the key against three defenders.
Take 30+ seconds if necessary to try to find a decent percentage shot. The number of garbage, early in the clock shots is inexcusable. And the misses are frequently WAY off target.
Figure out a way to inbound the ball from under your own basket without heaving it to half court.
The execution and common sense have regressed dramatically since last year.

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I watched zero minutes of the last two games, despite having watched and enjoyed the victory against Colorado. At least I was not available to watch on Thursday. Tonight I just chose to not remember that there was a game. Now, I realize nobody gives a crap if I watch a Cal game or not. Just saying: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

The only good thing I can think of about Cal Basketball this weekend is that we won't have to read Bear Insider posts claiming that Fox is actually a really good coach (he's so-so) or that anybody on the roster besides Bradley is really good just because they had 1-2 good games.

And that's not even that good, obviously, because I would actually prefer that we won more, even if it meant reading senseless hype. I am rooting for us to win, going forward (and backwards, if possible). If Fox can get things turned around, more power to him. We'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months.

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I don't see anyone claiming Fox is a really good coach. I think the most support you see is that it's premature to conclude he's incapable of elevating the program to a level of stability and quality basketball.

I also don't think anyone says we have any really good players outside of Bradley.

What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen.

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1. No one with a modicum of sense needs to watch 3-15 or a 31 point loss to be able to formulate the obvious opinion that it is beyond repair. You guys have been in the monkey house so long you no longer notice the smell. Having people who have lost all objectivity and sense lord their masochism over others is just hilarious.

2. "No one is saying our coach doesn't suck but that doesn't mean we should fire him yet" is just a massively brilliant argument.

If it were up to you guys we'd be enjoying our 26th year of Tom Holmoe. Just to be clear, that is not a compliment as some of you probably see nothing wrong with that.

Here is a clue. BigC has been a loyal and extraordinary patient and reasonable Cal fan and poster for to my knowledge at least 21 years. He's never in the torch and pitchfork crowd. You took an asshat swipe at a guy who will be one of the last to leave. Enjoy the solitude when you have chased everyone else away.

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so let see ...

#1 translates to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation is a monkey

#2 -- so are you going to pay the buyout?

#2a translate to everyone who doesn't agree with you and how you characterize the situation also would support Tom Holmoe for 26 years ... ok, I'm starting to see a pattern here

#2b after calling everyone who doesn't agree with you or how you characterize the situation a monkey you call another poster an 'asshat' (what ever that is)

#3c and you say HE is chasing everyone else away?

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1. Geez. I said they were in the monkey house, not that they were monkeys. This is a common phrase. It refers to when you walk in the monkey house, you get hit with the stench and think it stinks. The longer you stay in the monkey house, the more you get used to the smell until you don't notice it. It refers to humans. This is a common reference. I can't be responsible for you taking offense because you don't know it.

2. Oh eff that cop out bullshyte retort. Everything with you guys is a way to shut up all criticism. Did you want to keep Wyking? Did you pay his buyout? Have you paid any coach buyout ever? No one is required to have several million dollars to waste in order to have an opinion. Especially when they didn't support the stupid decision that now requires a buyout to correct

2a- we already see the pattern of the same arguments (including the bullshyte buyout retort) being used in support of every poor coaching hire. All these same arguments were made for Holmoe and others. The predictably is nauseating

2b didn't call anyone a monkey. Apparently you have never heard the term asshat either. Maybe spend less time watching bad basketball and more time in the world. Meanwhile you went after a very reasonable poster who posted very reasonable criticism because you have never been able to deal with any statements darker than an episode of My Little Pony. My response was not about people disagreeing with me. It was about drizzly taking a shot at BigC's opinion because he admitted he didn't watch the game. You didn't care about drizzly criticizing a poster because he takes the same Orange slices for everyone approach to college basketball that you do. If that is what you two want to do, fine. You can't expect it from the rest of us.

3c - I'll take the hit on that one. I didn't mean he would chase everyone away with his lame criticism. I meant the stupid strategy on coaching personnel would chase everyone away. (Pretty much already has). But that was entirely unclear at my part. That said, sorry, not sorry. It is quite clear that there are five or so of you that really enjoy your cloud cuckoo land bubble you have here where no one criticizes because the people that actually care about results have left. Dare I say, I think deep down you enjoy going 3-15 with rainbow bright posters rather than winning and having knowledgeable posters invade your bubble and breakdown games including a reasonable amount of criticism.

---

my bad. I have never heard of monkey house nor asshat. you got me there!

not sure how many times you called me a name or threw out insults, but what drizzly said to BigC was:

"What I see of the optimists on BI is basically what you're saying; i.e., "we'll see how the program fares over the next 12-13 months." I guess the only difference is that some of us haven't given up watching, and aren't basing our opinions on games we haven't seen."

Yeah, what a flaming insult!

I have no problem with people criticizing the coach. I do it myself sometimes when I question some of his game planning, etc. I'm sure there are a few times that it sounded like I think Fox is a good coach. For example, when I said he was a better 'game coach' than the coach who always seems to do less with more.

But point out a time that I actually said Fox is a good or very good coach, or the right coach for Cal?

I just ride with the cal coach until they are no longer the cal coach. Just unclear what it accomplishes to constantly call for his firing on the internet.

Ok, heading back to my cloud cuckoo (another term I ignorantly don't know) land bubble

---

Cloud-cuckoo-land | Definition of Cloud-cuckoo-land by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

Cloud cuckoo land - Wikipedia

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristophanes][/url]

Quote:

---

Aristophanes, a Greek playwright, wrote and directed a drama The Birds, first performed in 414 BC, in which Pisthetaerus, a middle-aged Athenian persuades the world's birds to create a new city in the sky to be named Nubicuculia or Cloud Cuckoo Land[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-3][3][/url] (, Nephelokokkygia), thereby gaining control over all communications between men and gods.

The phrase has been used by British and American politicians as well as writers. Margaret Thatcher used this phrase in the 1980s: "The ANC is a typical terrorist organisation... Anyone who thinks it is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-6][6][/url]

Newt Gingrich referred to Barack Obama's claim that algae could be used as a fuel source as cloud cuckoo land.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-9][9][/url] Henry A. Wallace, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (later U.S. Vice President in Franklin D. Roosevelt's third term) used the term to describe the unrealistically inflated value of stocks on the New York Stock Exchange just before the crash of 1929 that signaled the onset of the Great Depression.

Paul Krugman used the phrase referring to inadequate German economic politics toward failing members of the European Union: "Basically, it seems that even as the euro approaches a critical juncture, senior German officials are living in Wolkenkuckucksheimcloud-cuckoo land." (June 9, 2012).[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land#cite_note-10][10][/url]

---

Asshat | Definition of Asshat by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

Where did "asshat" come from? | Pop Lexicon - YouTube

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OaktownBear said:

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Big C said:

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Yeah baby: Posters are starting to, once again, BRING THE PASSION!

Coach is orchestrating all this: We are all just players in the Mark Fox Grand Plan to Restore Excitement to California Basketball! So this Thursday, put on your official Cal Asshats and tune in as we take it to the Beavers!

---

I only regret that I could not find a quote from Aristophanes using the word asshat.

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Instead of riding Pegasus, the hero of The Birds flew to Cloud Cuckooopolis on a giant flying dung beetle which solved two problems on the long journey.