Kerr was only in 'team administration' (and tv) before being hired at Golden State, so Shareef or Mark's may not be so far fetched.
Fox is now officially on the clock.
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Last: 3 yr ago by calumnus
I recall at the time, Jason Kidd was hedging that he'd get an NBA HC job - was it the Lakers?Fyght4Cal said:This is why I was pleading with The Almighty to give us Jason Kidd. Unfortunately, He never answered my voicemails.concordtom said:
#1 consideration for a coach is that he's got to be able to attract recruits.
Who is Mark Fox?
Anyways, he gave one placating pro Berkeley interview, but when I heard him talking about the potential for an NBA job I realized, "oh, no way does he want to coach college."
Pasternack is DQ'd for kicking Jorge GutierezBigDaddy said:ClayK said:
As always, the question is this: If you fire the coach, can you hire someone better?
If not, it's pointless, confusing activity with achievement.
If you are sure you have a better candidate available, then the other questions come into play: Can you afford the process financially? How will it affect current players and recruits? What do the big donors think?
For me, step one is identifying the coach you want, and I certainly don't know enough to pick one out. And from the discussions I've seen on this board, I'm not sure anyone does.
Can Cal hire someone better than Mark Fox? Absolutely. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, Fox has done nothing of note as a head coach, outside of a short run at Nevada with an inherited roster. Hew did nothing in the SEC while at Georgia.
As an AD, coming up with candidates should be easy. A short list would include:
Pro Ranks
Jason Kidd: Best player in Cal history, HOF'er and former NBA head coach/assistant. He would energize the program, fan base and recruiting.
College Head Coaches
Brian Dutcher, San Diego State
Randy Bennett, St. Mary's
Joe Pasternack, UC Santa Barbara
Travis DeCuire, Montana
Shantay Legans, Eastern Washington (just took Portland job)
Dennis Gates, Cleveland State
College Assistants: :
Jason Hart, USC
Brian Michaelson, Gonzaga
Michael Lewis, UCLA
David Velasquez, San Diego State
That's 11 guys who would all be an upgrade over what Cal basketball has now.
No love for Theo?concordtom said:Pasternack is DQ'd for kicking Jorge GutierezBigDaddy said:ClayK said:
As always, the question is this: If you fire the coach, can you hire someone better?
If not, it's pointless, confusing activity with achievement.
If you are sure you have a better candidate available, then the other questions come into play: Can you afford the process financially? How will it affect current players and recruits? What do the big donors think?
For me, step one is identifying the coach you want, and I certainly don't know enough to pick one out. And from the discussions I've seen on this board, I'm not sure anyone does.
Can Cal hire someone better than Mark Fox? Absolutely. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, Fox has done nothing of note as a head coach, outside of a short run at Nevada with an inherited roster. Hew did nothing in the SEC while at Georgia.
As an AD, coming up with candidates should be easy. A short list would include:
Pro Ranks
Jason Kidd: Best player in Cal history, HOF'er and former NBA head coach/assistant. He would energize the program, fan base and recruiting.
College Head Coaches
Brian Dutcher, San Diego State
Randy Bennett, St. Mary's
Joe Pasternack, UC Santa Barbara
Travis DeCuire, Montana
Shantay Legans, Eastern Washington (just took Portland job)
Dennis Gates, Cleveland State
College Assistants: :
Jason Hart, USC
Brian Michaelson, Gonzaga
Michael Lewis, UCLA
David Velasquez, San Diego State
That's 11 guys who would all be an upgrade over what Cal basketball has now.
Jason Kidd has not been particularly successful as a head coach, and the rumors swirling about he knifed his boss when he was an assistant so he could get the top spot were, and maybe still are, troubling.
But the big question is this: Does he want to spend his time recruiting or coaching? In the NBA, it's about basketball; in college, it's about recruiting.
The college candidates all know this, and presumably would be ready to dive in. Some on the list would obviously jump at a P5 job, but others (Randy Bennett, say) may not be that excited about trying to recruit to a down program with below-average facilities.
I do appreciate the list, though. It's one thing to say "Fire the guy"; it's another to point to the solution.
But the big question is this: Does he want to spend his time recruiting or coaching? In the NBA, it's about basketball; in college, it's about recruiting.
The college candidates all know this, and presumably would be ready to dive in. Some on the list would obviously jump at a P5 job, but others (Randy Bennett, say) may not be that excited about trying to recruit to a down program with below-average facilities.
I do appreciate the list, though. It's one thing to say "Fire the guy"; it's another to point to the solution.
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Go Bears!
oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
Let's hope Bradley's announcement isn't the start of a roster meltdown. Because would be our second roster meltdown under Fox. :facepalm emojidrizzlybear said:oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
Patience is a virtue, but I’m not into virtue signaling these days.
drizzlybear said:oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
That was said over and over by people supporting Holmoe as a means of getting People to shut up. Ultimately it took the AD being fired, er....um....getting a job with the conference to get it done, but we got it done.
He isn't going to be fired isn't an excuse not to argue for the right thing
Fyght4Cal said:Let's hope Bradley's announcement isn't the start of a roster meltdown. Because would be our second roster meltdown under Fox. :facepalm emojidrizzlybear said:oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
Bradley is the roster and thus is the roster meltdown
You cant do any worse than last place. I predict we will do better without Bradley.
Go Bears!
oskidunker said:
You cant do any worse than last place. I predict we will do better without Bradley.
I predict we will be last worse. I bet you thought we'd be better without Boller also. Blaming the best player for being smarter than you about the loser coach is par for the course for some around here.
I predict Bradley is better off wherever he lands next year. See you in a year to trade notes
I predict we will do last place better.oskidunker said:
You cant do any worse than last place. I predict we will do better without Bradley.
oskidunker said:
You cant do any worse than last place. I predict we will do better without Bradley.
Please explain how that works. Who are the eight guys we are better off putting on the floor? Clearly he is by far the most skilled and productive player. He doesn't deserve the insinuation from you. The only way we could be better off is if he is such an attitude problem to make his obviously important contribution a net negative.
There is an individual on the team who needs an attitude adjustment and he is getting paid millions of dollars not to have an attitude problem
OaktownBear said:drizzlybear said:oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
That was said over and over by people supporting Holmoe as a means of getting People to shut up. Ultimately it took the AD being fired, er....um....getting a job with the conference to get it done, but we got it done.
He isn't going to be fired isn't an excuse not to argue for the right thing
Well Homoe didn't immediately improve things in his first year, like Fox did. He didn't receive Coach of the Year votes (including from the conference's leading source) in his first year, like Fox did. And he didn't have to deal with a pandemic in his second season, like Fox did. But other than that ...
And yet ... the Holmoe firing/transition experience was an overwhelming success. There is real value to your long-term success in having consensus among the constituency. And there is real value towards your long-term success in showing your organization to be supportive and patient (especially when your organization can't show itself to be unctuously funded).
Additionally, it's easy and simpleminded, and wrong, to think that had Holmoe been fired two years earlier everything would have played out the same as it did. But I that's highly unlikely to have been the case. There is a time and a way to do things. Cal/Gladstone handled the Holmoe situation correctly and it paid spectacular dividends for the Cal football program.
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
Why didn't we do that in the Jones situation?drizzlybear said:
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
drizzlybear said:OaktownBear said:drizzlybear said:oskidunker said:
Fox is not going to be fired any time soon. Thread not interesting or helpful.
Thank you. That's kinda my view as well. However, if this leads to others leaving and there's a roster meltdown, then I could see a possible change. But I agree that we're not there yet.
That was said over and over by people supporting Holmoe as a means of getting People to shut up. Ultimately it took the AD being fired, er....um....getting a job with the conference to get it done, but we got it done.
He isn't going to be fired isn't an excuse not to argue for the right thing
Well Homoe didn't immediately improve things in his first year, like Fox did. He didn't receive Coach of the Year votes (including from the conference's leading source) in his first year, like Fox did. And he didn't have to deal with a pandemic in his second season, like Fox did. But other than that ...
And yet ... the Holmoe firing/transition experience was an overwhelming success. It's easy and simpleminded to think that had Holmoe been fired two years earlier that everything would have played out the same as it did. But I think that's unlikely to have been the case. There is a time and a way to do things. Cal/Gladstone handled the Holmoe situation correctly and paid spectacular dividends for the Cal football program.
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
This is the second time you have made the utterly ridiculous point that somehow the success under Tedford was the result of not firing Holmoe earlier. Yes, that was the lesson we should have learned from that process. Stick with losers for longer.
Maybe if Cal kept Holmoe another year, we could have won a national championship. Maybe two more years it would have been a dynasty.
stu said:Why didn't we do that in the Jones situation?drizzlybear said:
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
Jones was something of a promotional interim hire, made by an interim AD. And he didn't immediately improve things. On the contrary, he took things to new lows not seen before nor since.
I think I saw a Jones-level low this season.drizzlybear said:stu said:Why didn't we do that in the Jones situation?drizzlybear said:
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
Jones was something of a promotional interim hire, made by an interim AD. And he didn't immediately improve things. On the contrary, he took things to new lows not seen before nor since.
I think maybe I'll revisit Cal basketball when the university actually starts caring about Cal basketball. Anybody with a real shot somewhere else should ditch the dumpster fire.
If fox is anything of a coach this is his chance to prove it. Teams win individuals don't. The lack of talent narrative is tiring. Team played better without him but most of you are blind to that
ClayK said:
Jason Kidd has not been particularly successful as a head coach, and the rumors swirling about he knifed his boss when he was an assistant so he could get the top spot were, and maybe still are, troubling.
But the big question is this: Does he want to spend his time recruiting or coaching? In the NBA, it's about basketball; in college, it's about recruiting.
The college candidates all know this, and presumably would be ready to dive in. Some on the list would obviously jump at a P5 job, but others (Randy Bennett, say) may not be that excited about trying to recruit to a down program with below-average facilities.
I do appreciate the list, though. It's one thing to say "Fire the guy"; it's another to point to the solution.
Cal's facilities are a helluva lot better than those of St. Mary's.
stu said:I think I saw a Jones-level low this season.drizzlybear said:stu said:Why didn't we do that in the Jones situation?drizzlybear said:
So, yes, to the extent Fox's situation is even remotely comparable to the Holmoe situation, the evidence points to the better approach being to follow the exact same course as Cal did in the Holmoe situation.
Jones was something of a promotional interim hire, made by an interim AD. And he didn't immediately improve things. On the contrary, he took things to new lows not seen before nor since.
No, you didn't. And in any case, hopefully Cal administration has better sense than to make major long-term decisions (in basketball or in football) based on what happened this year.
Aside from the fact that you apparently have no idea what my view of the situation is, I think I would enjoy very much SFCityBear's company anytime.Stanford Jonah said:Yep. Drizzlybear and SFCityBear will soon be the only ones posting back and forth to each other about how Fox deserves that fifth year.parentswerebears said:
I think maybe I'll revisit Cal basketball when the university actually starts caring about Cal basketball. Anybody with a real shot somewhere else should ditch the dumpster fire.
Good point.Golden One said:ClayK said:
Jason Kidd has not been particularly successful as a head coach, and the rumors swirling about he knifed his boss when he was an assistant so he could get the top spot were, and maybe still are, troubling.
But the big question is this: Does he want to spend his time recruiting or coaching? In the NBA, it's about basketball; in college, it's about recruiting.
The college candidates all know this, and presumably would be ready to dive in. Some on the list would obviously jump at a P5 job, but others (Randy Bennett, say) may not be that excited about trying to recruit to a down program with below-average facilities.
I do appreciate the list, though. It's one thing to say "Fire the guy"; it's another to point to the solution.
Cal's facilities are a helluva lot better than those of St. Mary's.
SFCityBear
Wrong. And in any case it sounds like you'd also be wrong about SFC and me being the only ones. You can't keep your insults straight.Stanford Jonah said:I know your view of the situation very well. You're one of those guys who is always saying that a bad coach deserves more time to suck. Fanbase is full of those people.drizzlybear said:Aside from the fact that you apparently have no idea what my view of the situation is, I think I would enjoy very much SFCityBear's company anytime.Stanford Jonah said:Yep. Drizzlybear and SFCityBear will soon be the only ones posting back and forth to each other about how Fox deserves that fifth year.parentswerebears said:
I think maybe I'll revisit Cal basketball when the university actually starts caring about Cal basketball. Anybody with a real shot somewhere else should ditch the dumpster fire.
Look, you can lie to your friends, and I can lie to my friends, but let's not lie about each other, OK?Stanford Jonah said:Yep. Drizzlybear and SFCityBear will soon be the only ones posting back and forth to each other about how Fox deserves that fifth year.parentswerebears said:
I think maybe I'll revisit Cal basketball when the university actually starts caring about Cal basketball. Anybody with a real shot somewhere else should ditch the dumpster fire.
I have posted this before, but I do not want a coach fired during an active season, unless it is for a moral or criminal offense, such as punching a player, paying recruits under the table, or some sexual abuse of a reporter or secretary in the athletic department office, etc. What Cal does with him in between seasons, keeping him or firing him is OK with me. I'll be hopeful to see a new coach, and I might miss some fired coaches, but I can't do a thing about it, and don't like dwelling on things I have no control over, especially when it affects nothing more than my entertainment. If we end up having a lousy team, I can change the channel and watch something else.
If you every read anything I wrote with a shred of comprehension and exercise your memory to retain it, you might remember I was one of the first, if not the first, to express grave doubt about the hiring of Wyking (Why King?) Jones, and any novice fan should should have been able to figure out why it was a bad hire from listening to Coach Jones' first press conference, where he said Cal would play a full court press most of the time, leading to lots of easy baskets, or his second major presser, where he anointed Don Coleman as our "go-to guy on offense". Anyone but poor Coleman would likely have been better.
I did not feel that way about Fox at the outset. I liked what he did at Nevada, enough to watch what he did before commenting. He was average at Georgia, and the SEC has Kentucky, Florida, and slew of good programs, so I can understand why he might have been average in the SEC. He did better than I thought he would at Cal in year one. This season has been rougher, but Cal was staying in a lot of games which they were not have been predicted to stay in. I wanted him to be able to finish the season. And I am sick and tired of those who don't know a basketball from a beach ball, trying to gin up contempt for the guy and his players all season long. Many wanted him fired before he took over the program, wanted him fired throughout his first season, after the season, and all season long this season.
The most important goals of a sports program should be to teach students to become well-rounded student-athletes, to develop their physical abilities, to teach them to get along with others, be a team, support each other win or lose, to learn how to win, and above that, to learn how to lose, and how to accept it, and become better. If you disrupt this process by firing a coach mid-season you leave scars on the student athletes. Basketball is not all about winning, like it is for us old farts sitting in the stands, most of whom never cut it on the court at any level, but now think they know all there is to know about coaching.
Like with Wyking, I don't care what you do with Fox, now that the season is over. But for goodness sake, if your are going to fire him, do it now, in between seasons, so we don't have to listen to all this whining from those who whine, and the hate from those who hate. Basketball is a game, that's all it is. A freaking game.
SFCityBear
I'm sorry but you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You can't spend 95% of your time here countering any criticism of the coach, never offer anything but the bare minimum of criticism and then say people don't know the view of the situation you keep secretly in your head. If you have any view of the situation that deviates from publicly supporting the coach no matter what he does, you are free to state it. You can't be as outspoken as you are in support and then claim people don't know your true feelings.drizzlybear said:Wrong. And in any case it sounds like you'd also be wrong about SFC and me being the only ones. You can't keep your insults straight.Stanford Jonah said:I know your view of the situation very well. You're one of those guys who is always saying that a bad coach deserves more time to suck. Fanbase is full of those people.drizzlybear said:Aside from the fact that you apparently have no idea what my view of the situation is, I think I would enjoy very much SFCityBear's company anytime.Stanford Jonah said:Yep. Drizzlybear and SFCityBear will soon be the only ones posting back and forth to each other about how Fox deserves that fifth year.parentswerebears said:
I think maybe I'll revisit Cal basketball when the university actually starts caring about Cal basketball. Anybody with a real shot somewhere else should ditch the dumpster fire.
I think it is safe to say that at least at this point you have made it clear that this coach that finished last place deserves another season. I have tried to phrase that in a nicer way than "a bad coach deserves more time to suck", but they are really saying the same thing.
concordtom said:Pasternack is DQ'd for kicking Jorge GutierezBigDaddy said:ClayK said:
As always, the question is this: If you fire the coach, can you hire someone better?
If not, it's pointless, confusing activity with achievement.
If you are sure you have a better candidate available, then the other questions come into play: Can you afford the process financially? How will it affect current players and recruits? What do the big donors think?
For me, step one is identifying the coach you want, and I certainly don't know enough to pick one out. And from the discussions I've seen on this board, I'm not sure anyone does.
Can Cal hire someone better than Mark Fox? Absolutely. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, Fox has done nothing of note as a head coach, outside of a short run at Nevada with an inherited roster. Hew did nothing in the SEC while at Georgia.
As an AD, coming up with candidates should be easy. A short list would include:
Pro Ranks
Jason Kidd: Best player in Cal history, HOF'er and former NBA head coach/assistant. He would energize the program, fan base and recruiting.
College Head Coaches
Brian Dutcher, San Diego State
Randy Bennett, St. Mary's
Joe Pasternack, UC Santa Barbara
Travis DeCuire, Montana
Shantay Legans, Eastern Washington (just took Portland job)
Dennis Gates, Cleveland State
College Assistants: :
Jason Hart, USC
Brian Michaelson, Gonzaga
Michael Lewis, UCLA
David Velasquez, San Diego State
That's 11 guys who would all be an upgrade over what Cal basketball has now.
Bah. Only old farts remember. Get Turner at uci on the list. He understand uc. And yes. I know. He made an I'll advised slur during the dance. **** it. I want to win.
We will not crack double digit wins. Happy to bet 20 top dogs on it.
socaltownie said:
We will not crack double digit wins. Happy to bet 20 top dogs on it.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Well yogi still owes me 20 cause he took the over on Jones's second year
socaltownie said:
Well yogi still owes me 20 cause he took the over on Jones's second year
The question is, is Wyking's -16 in a row school record safe?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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