Watched the game. We didn't want it badly enough. Lazy, sloppy ball handling led to a few easy steals right where we had a chance to cut the lead to 2 or 3, on multiple occasions. Head not in the game last night. UCLA played with more urgency and purpose. They may be more talented, but we should have been right in that game the whole way. All said, We COVERED!!! Woohoo!

I'm pretty sure regardless of how the Bears played, UCLA had plenty of gears to upshift into to get the W. They are a Shelby Cobra.

Esther 4:14 failed us (ignore the part about the Jews, it's not relevant).

Why did God side with UCLA?

I thought both UCLA and USC were overrated until seeing these games. For this trip, I thought USC was slightly better than UCLA against Cal and the score differential showed that. Overall, I think UCLA is the better team over the course of the season.

Talent - starting talent with USC is comparable, but UCLA seemed to have much more depth and more tools in their toolbox.

Flexibility - related to the tools mentioned above, but UCLA can beat you offensively so many different ways. Defensively, I don't think they will ever face a bad matchup.

Coaching - game day coaching - I still think Cronin is a few leagues ahead of Enfield. Enfield kept trying to speed up Cal to get them to play their style. Cronin pretty much was able to beat Cal at their own game with better roster management and adjustments throughout.

However, despite two expected losses, I'm now gaining confidence that Cal could finish as high as 6th or 7th in the P12 if things go their way. And a run to the semi's of the P12 tourney could be fun.

Go!Bears said:

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I do think we are God's current stand-in for Job...

---

"What I feared has come upon me. What I dreaded has come to pass."

Against UCLA, we started 4 of 5 players who are from outside of California. Great that we are getting those guys, but where are all the players we used to get from SoCal? Used to be, UCLA would usually take the top 1-3, but then we would usually get two or so out of the next ten. That was true for many decades, right up through the Monty regime.

Big C said:

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Against UCLA, we started 4 of 5 players who are from outside of California. Great that we are getting those guys, but where are all the players we used to get from SoCal? Used to be, UCLA would usually take the top 1-3, but then we would usually get two or so out of the next ten. That was true for many decades, right up through the Monty regime.

---

Dre is from So Cal. [My bad he's from Stockton -- which is neither So Cal or No Cal right lol]

We lost Matt Bradley and Justice Sueing, two So Cal players that would have started. Hyder is from the same area as Matt, San Bernardino.

But yah, not many So Cal players we are recruiting/landing. I hope Fox is not making the same mistake Sonny did.

At least we kind of have the No Cal Bishop O'Dowd pipeline going on (counting Paris that's three in a few years).

KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

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Against UCLA, we started 4 of 5 players who are from outside of California. Great that we are getting those guys, but where are all the players we used to get from SoCal? Used to be, UCLA would usually take the top 1-3, but then we would usually get two or so out of the next ten. That was true for many decades, right up through the Monty regime.

---

Dre is from So Cal. [My bad he's from Stockton -- which is neither So Cal or No Cal right lol]

We lost Matt Bradley and Justice Sueing, two So Cal players that would have started. Hyder is from the same area as Matt, San Bernardino.

But yah, not many So Cal players we are recruiting/landing. I hope Fox is not making the same mistake Sonny did.

At least we kind of have the No Cal Bishop O'Dowd pipeline going on (counting Paris that's three in a few years).

---

...and KK played his HS ball just up the road in Napa, so he kinda counts, sorta.

KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

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Against UCLA, we started 4 of 5 players who are from outside of California. Great that we are getting those guys, but where are all the players we used to get from SoCal? Used to be, UCLA would usually take the top 1-3, but then we would usually get two or so out of the next ten. That was true for many decades, right up through the Monty regime.

---

At least we kind of have the No Cal Bishop O'Dowd pipeline going on (counting Paris that's three in a few years).

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

stu said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

---

Okay, O'Doud, that's great, but what about a couple of the top SoCal players most every year? This is where we used to get guys from. Lots more people down there than up here in NorCal. Honestly, I don't care WHERE they come from, but we have a roster with a dearth of Pac 12-level talent and we're hardly pulling anybody from what probably should be our main area.

Fine if we're not drawing from there, but then we'd better be getting solid recruits from other places -- and we're not.

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

---

Okay, O'Doud, that's great, but what about a couple of the top SoCal players most every year? This is where we used to get guys from. Lots more people down there than up here in NorCal. Honestly, I don't care WHERE they come from, but we have a roster with a dearth of Pac 12-level talent and we're hardly pulling anybody from what probably should be our main area.

Fine if we're not drawing from there, but then we'd better be getting solid recruits from other places -- and we're not.

---

I think you're going in circles. I'm fine with getting guys like Alajiki and now ND Okafor from Ireland. Until we get consistently into the upper half of the Pac-12 I think gone are the days we land guys like Joe Shipp, Brian Wethers, Patrick Christopher (see his brother) and Allen Crabbe -- 3-4 star So Cal guys that have upside. So for now the international and national route is OK.

KoreAmBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

---

Okay, O'Doud, that's great, but what about a couple of the top SoCal players most every year? This is where we used to get guys from. Lots more people down there than up here in NorCal. Honestly, I don't care WHERE they come from, but we have a roster with a dearth of Pac 12-level talent and we're hardly pulling anybody from what probably should be our main area.

Fine if we're not drawing from there, but then we'd better be getting solid recruits from other places -- and we're not.

---

I think you're going in circles. I'm fine with getting guys like Alajiki and now ND Okafor from Ireland. Until we get consistently into the upper half of the Pac-12 I think gone are the days we land guys like Joe Shipp, Brian Wethers, Patrick Christopher (see his brother) and Allen Crabbe -- 3-4 star So Cal guys that have upside. So for now the international and national route is OK.

---

It is the sort of teams Fox assembled in his 9 years at Georgia. He recruited and developed only 1 player who would later play an NBA game: Caldwell Pope, McDonald's All-American from Greenville, Georgia, future SEC POY, his biggest recruit ever.

His second biggest success in recruiting and development was with 3 star Yante Maten out of Michigan. He went from the #225 player out of HS to SEC POY and then undrafted and playing G League for $100,000 a year then playing in Korea.

Other than the talent he inherited, and the above, most of his teams were low talent, gritty overachievers playing slow down basketball and hard nosed defense. If he had a KCP or Maten, he made them the center of the offense like he did with Bradley, earning them POY honors.

With all the departures Fox has been able to recreate his Georgia model fairly quickly. Two of our best players are still ones he inherited, but they have clearly developed and reached their potential under his guidance. I expect we will see similar development from some of the freshmen and sophomores. I doubt we challenge for the conference championship or even make the NCAA Tournament with him as our coach, but we will continue to be competitive, especially at Haas and should stay out of the cellar. This year we could finish as high as 5th. Next year could be more challenging, depending who come back.

pac12 projected to have only 3 teams in the tournament right now, but these teams would be:
1 seed
2 seed
2 seed

HoopDreams said:

---

pac12 projected to have only 3 teams in the tournament right now, but these teams would be:
1 seed
2 seed
2 seed

---

Much like last year a 4th (or even 5th) team that has been underperforming its talent could get hot and emerge from the Seven Sisters, or we could all be like a bucket of crabs and pull each other down.

Wow, remember when the ACC and the Big East ruled the roost?

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

---

Okay, O'Doud, that's great, but what about a couple of the top SoCal players most every year? This is where we used to get guys from. Lots more people down there than up here in NorCal. Honestly, I don't care WHERE they come from, but we have a roster with a dearth of Pac 12-level talent and we're hardly pulling anybody from what probably should be our main area.

Fine if we're not drawing from there, but then we'd better be getting solid recruits from other places -- and we're not.

---

I think you're going in circles. I'm fine with getting guys like Alajiki and now ND Okafor from Ireland. Until we get consistently into the upper half of the Pac-12 I think gone are the days we land guys like Joe Shipp, Brian Wethers, Patrick Christopher (see his brother) and Allen Crabbe -- 3-4 star So Cal guys that have upside. So for now the international and national route is OK.

---

It is the sort of teams Fox assembled in his 9 years at Georgia. He recruited and developed only 1 player who would later play an NBA game: Caldwell Pope, McDonald's All-American from Greenville, Georgia, future SEC POY, his biggest recruit ever.

His second biggest success in recruiting and development was with 3 star Yante Maten out of Michigan. He went from the #225 player out of HS to SEC POY and then undrafted and playing G League for $100,000 a year then playing in Korea.

Other than the talent he inherited, and the above, most of his teams were low talent, gritty overachievers playing slow down basketball and hard nosed defense. If he had a KCP or Maten, he made them the center of the offense like he did with Bradley, earning them POY honors.

With all the departures Fox has been able to recreate his Georgia model fairly quickly. Two of our best players are still ones he inherited, but they have clearly developed and reached their potential under his guidance. I expect we will see similar development from some of the freshmen and sophomores. I doubt we challenge for the conference championship or even make the NCAA Tournament with him as our coach, but we will continue to be competitive, especially at Haas and should stay out of the cellar. This year we could finish as high as 5th. Next year could be more challenging, depending who come back.

---

Agree with your post - though Fox did very well at Nevada/results and recruiting wise. But clearly his staff has to step up the recruiting. A current HC in the Big West, said the first recruitng emphasis he would focus on - if He were the HC, would be to pursue Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldiers program. Proximity and quality of talent close by, should be our focus and show recruiting wins. Fox is a very solid coach and does get a lot out of his players, but in my opinion, needs a better recruiting staff (staff's main job should be to recruit with the HC mainly there to approve/close as need be). Cal has to recruit a few future pro's, to be a top half of conf program and qualifier for the post season championships. Cal has a few players who are great young men, but basketball is not their post school emphasis. Thus the dedication to be better, while good, is not their #1 focus. Respect their goals, but if this program is to be a legitimate top 4 conf school, the recruiting skill has to take a large leap.

calumnus said:

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Go!Bears said:

---

I do think we are God's current stand-in for Job...

---

"What I feared has come upon me. What I dreaded has come to pass."

---

"I've made a huge mistake."

2K is from Prolific Prep.

So since this has kind of turned into a "recruiting" thread, it appears that Okafor and Newell are expected in next year while Andre,Grant,Makale,Jordan are gone. So at this point what two guys are we targeting? As usual I would think it would be a point guard and a true center, but maybe some of you guys can help me out with specific names.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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So since this has kind of turned into a "recruiting" thread, it appears that Okafor and Newell are expected in next year while Andre,Grant,Makale,Jordan are gone. So at this point what two guys are we targeting? As usual I would think it would be a point guard and a true center, but maybe some of you guys can help me out with specific names.

---

Cal currently has15 schollies on the roster and will need to get down to 13 as Super Seniors depart. Grant, Makale, and Jordan are Super Seniors and cannot be replaced, which creates one open scholly for next year. Kelly isn't out the door just yet, but him staying as a Super Senior would not count against the allowable 13 anyway. That leaves 2 open spots by my count for Okafor and Newell. More attrition would be needed to add anyone else at this point. Do I have this correct?

Civil Bear said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

So since this has kind of turned into a "recruiting" thread, it appears that Okafor and Newell are expected in next year while Andre,Grant,Makale,Jordan are gone. So at this point what two guys are we targeting? As usual I would think it would be a point guard and a true center, but maybe some of you guys can help me out with specific names.

---

Cal currently has15 schollies on the roster and will need to get down to 13 as Super Seniors depart. Grant, Makale, and Jordan are Super Seniors and cannot be replaced, which creates one open scholly for next year. Kelly isn't out the door just yet, but him staying as a Super Senior would not count against the allowable 13 anyway. That leaves 2 open spots by my count for Okafor and Newell. More attrition would be needed to add anyone else at this point. Do I have this correct?

---

I think this is right. In my brain, Grant and Makale would have graduated last year, but getting an extra season due to Covid. Jordan is a grad transfer for one season only. If Andre leaves then we have one more to give?

calumnus said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Ivan, Paris, Bowser, Roberson = 4
+ Asha = 5

---

+ Amaya this fall = 6

---

Okay, O'Doud, that's great, but what about a couple of the top SoCal players most every year? This is where we used to get guys from. Lots more people down there than up here in NorCal. Honestly, I don't care WHERE they come from, but we have a roster with a dearth of Pac 12-level talent and we're hardly pulling anybody from what probably should be our main area.

Fine if we're not drawing from there, but then we'd better be getting solid recruits from other places -- and we're not.

---

I think you're going in circles. I'm fine with getting guys like Alajiki and now ND Okafor from Ireland. Until we get consistently into the upper half of the Pac-12 I think gone are the days we land guys like Joe Shipp, Brian Wethers, Patrick Christopher (see his brother) and Allen Crabbe -- 3-4 star So Cal guys that have upside. So for now the international and national route is OK.

---

It is the sort of teams Fox assembled in his 9 years at Georgia. He recruited and developed only 1 player who would later play an NBA game: Caldwell Pope, McDonald's All-American from Greenville, Georgia, future SEC POY, his biggest recruit ever.

His second biggest success in recruiting and development was with 3 star Yante Maten out of Michigan. He went from the #225 player out of HS to SEC POY and then undrafted and playing G League for $100,000 a year then playing in Korea.

Other than the talent he inherited, and the above, most of his teams were low talent, gritty overachievers playing slow down basketball and hard nosed defense. If he had a KCP or Maten, he made them the center of the offense like he did with Bradley, earning them POY honors.

With all the departures Fox has been able to recreate his Georgia model fairly quickly. Two of our best players are still ones he inherited, but they have clearly developed and reached their potential under his guidance. I expect we will see similar development from some of the freshmen and sophomores. I doubt we challenge for the conference championship or even make the NCAA Tournament with him as our coach, but we will continue to be competitive, especially at Haas and should stay out of the cellar. This year we could finish as high as 5th. Next year could be more challenging, depending who come back.

---

Agree with your post - though Fox did very well at Nevada/results and recruiting wise. But clearly his staff has to step up the recruiting. A current HC in the Big West, said the first recruitng emphasis he would focus on - if He were the HC, would be to pursue Prolithic Prep and Oakland Soldiers program. Proximity and quality of talent close by, should be our focus and show recruiting wins. Fox is a very solid coach and does get a lot out of his players, but in my opinion, needs a better recruiting staff (staff's main job should be to recruit with the HC mainly there to approve/close as need be). Cal has to recruit a few future pro's, to be a top half of conf program and qualifier for the post season championships. Cal has a few players who are great young men, but basketball is not their post school emphasis. Thus the dedication to be better, while good, is not their #1 focus. Respect their goals, but if this program is to be a legitimate top 4 conf school, the recruiting skill has to take a large leap.

---

At Nevada, Fox built on the momentum established by Trent Johnson, going to the NCAA Tournament his first three years (then CBI his last two years).

However, he only brought in one Top 100 player while he was there, and that was in his last year: Luke Babbitt, who is from Reno and grew up a Nevada fan. Most of his Nevada teams had no Top 100 players, which is the case for Cal this year which I believe is for the first time in the 40+ years since I've been following the program. His recruiting skill is not landing Top players, it is finding and developing lesser players. It was definitely more successful in the MWC than it was in the SEC or in the PAC-12 so far.

He has been a HC for 16 years. What you see is what you get. If hiring better recruiters as assistants would "fix" his recruiting, he would have figured that out a long time ago. The likelihood is he doing what he wants and prefers the team he has, that he's happier without top talent. He'd be a great coach at Army or Air Force, which is why Knowlton had such affinity for him and will probably extend him after we get double digit wins this year.

---

Yup <sigh>. I mean you get what you get....and this weekend really felt like we know the movie. Fox teams without COVID are going to play well coached BB and get beat modestly at home and likely blown out on the road by the 3-4 programs that priotize winning basketball and recruiting more than we do. We will occasionally sniff the bubble. Sometimes get a 9 seed....or maybe actually sneak in as a 12 and have the pathway that you WANT rather than the seed of death.

Pretty funny. That is probably our MO in football as well ;-) I mean if you think we are ever going to the Rose Bowl I got something to sell you.

BeachedBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

---

So since this has kind of turned into a "recruiting" thread, it appears that Okafor and Newell are expected in next year while Andre,Grant,Makale,Jordan are gone. So at this point what two guys are we targeting? As usual I would think it would be a point guard and a true center, but maybe some of you guys can help me out with specific names.

---

Cal currently has15 schollies on the roster and will need to get down to 13 as Super Seniors depart. Grant, Makale, and Jordan are Super Seniors and cannot be replaced, which creates one open scholly for next year. Kelly isn't out the door just yet, but him staying as a Super Senior would not count against the allowable 13 anyway. That leaves 2 open spots by my count for Okafor and Newell. More attrition would be needed to add anyone else at this point. Do I have this correct?

---

I think this is right. In my brain, Grant and Makale would have graduated last year, but getting an extra season due to Covid. Jordan is a grad transfer for one season only. If Andre leaves then we have one more to give?

---

I don't believe Andre matters. Leave and one of the allotted 13 open up; stay and his scholly doesn't count against the 13. Either way, that spot is already taken by either Okafor or Newell. I think.

If we can't add a guard in this recruiting class we are in trouble.

Having Joel run the point as a senior next season will be fine but we really need to groom someone for when he leaves. A true PG would be ideal, but a ballhandling combo would be fine.

I don't know what the issue with Hyder is. Fox is very short-leashed when it comes to injuries. Seems like he benches guys for the smallest ailments. Which makes me wonder why he's playing Hyder if he is indeed hurt like a lot of folks are saying. Hurt or not, Hyder's confidence is shot. I hope he can put things together, hard watching him play when he can barely complete a pass.

Maybe Marsalis can handle the ball a little next year and initiate the offense?

BC Calfan said:

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If we can't add a guard in this recruiting class we are in trouble.

Having Joel run the point as a senior next season will be fine but we really need to groom someone for when he leaves. A true PG would be ideal, but a ballhandling combo would be fine.

I don't know what the issue with Hyder is. Fox is very short-leashed when it comes to injuries. Seems like he benches guys for the smallest ailments. Which makes me wonder why he's playing Hyder if he is indeed hurt like a lot of folks are saying. Hurt or not, Hyder's confidence is shot. I hope he can put things together, hard watching him play when he can barely complete a pass.

Maybe Marsalis can handle the ball a little next year and initiate the offense?

---

Agreed. For this team to be competitive next year it needs Andre to stay and another spot to open where they acquire a piontguard.

In my opinion, a successful step forward next year is dependent on Andre returning. The team desperately needs him to stay!! If he does, with expected improvement from the returning players and the two new guys I think the postseason is in reach.

89Bear said:

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In my opinion, a successful step forward next year is dependent on Andre returning. The team desperately needs him to stay!! If he does, with expected improvement from the returning players and the two new guys I think the postseason is in reach.

---

That would obviously be huge for us, but from his perspective not sure if it will be beneficial for him. Perhaps he could get more pre-season fanfare and continue to raise his stock? Seems like his stock is already high now and there's only a marginal benefit if he returns. That's if his goal is next level somewhere, which certainly is a viable option for him.

BC Calfan said:

---

If we can't add a guard in this recruiting class we are in trouble.

Having Joel run the point as a senior next season will be fine but we really need to groom someone for when he leaves. A true PG would be ideal, but a ballhandling combo would be fine.

I don't know what the issue with Hyder is. Fox is very short-leashed when it comes to injuries. Seems like he benches guys for the smallest ailments. Which makes me wonder why he's playing Hyder if he is indeed hurt like a lot of folks are saying. Hurt or not, Hyder's confidence is shot. I hope he can put things together, hard watching him play when he can barely complete a pass.

Maybe Marsalis can handle the ball a little next year and initiate the offense?

---

Hyder looked good at times last year. He seems to have really lost confidence this season.

BeachedBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

So since this has kind of turned into a "recruiting" thread, it appears that Okafor and Newell are expected in next year while Andre,Grant,Makale,Jordan are gone. So at this point what two guys are we targeting? As usual I would think it would be a point guard and a true center, but maybe some of you guys can help me out with specific names.

---

Cal currently has15 schollies on the roster and will need to get down to 13 as Super Seniors depart. Grant, Makale, and Jordan are Super Seniors and cannot be replaced, which creates one open scholly for next year. Kelly isn't out the door just yet, but him staying as a Super Senior would not count against the allowable 13 anyway. That leaves 2 open spots by my count for Okafor and Newell. More attrition would be needed to add anyone else at this point. Do I have this correct?

---

I think this is right. In my brain, Grant and Makale would have graduated last year, but getting an extra season due to Covid. Jordan is a grad transfer for one season only. If Andre leaves then we have one more to give?

---

Thanks for the update, which leads to Andre - stay, transfer, or possible pro? Anybody have a guess?

KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

---

Against UCLA, we started 4 of 5 players who are from outside of California. Great that we are getting those guys, but where are all the players we used to get from SoCal? Used to be, UCLA would usually take the top 1-3, but then we would usually get two or so out of the next ten. That was true for many decades, right up through the Monty regime.

---

Dre is from So Cal. [My bad he's from Stockton -- which is neither So Cal or No Cal right lol]

We lost Matt Bradley and Justice Sueing, two So Cal players that would have started. Hyder is from the same area as Matt, San Bernardino.

But yah, not many So Cal players we are recruiting/landing. I hope Fox is not making the same mistake Sonny did.

At least we kind of have the No Cal Bishop O'Dowd pipeline going on (counting Paris that's three in a few years).

---

I think it is 4 - Rabb, Paris, Bowser, and Roberson