The post-Kelly era, and living with Lars

7,994 Views | 84 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by 59bear
HoopDreams
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drizzlybear said:

I think we take for granted (no pun intended) what GA does for this team. It's easy to see shots going in or not, but he does so much for this team, on both ends of the floor. I think we'll miss him when he's gone, even though it might be hard to recognize it.
totally agree.

Grant has become a good defender and rebounder

people may not see it because he doesn't block a lot of shots or do anything above the rim, but he plays such fundamental defense and is also a fundamental and effective rebounder

coaches agree with me too... despite his streaky shooting, he plays the second most minutes besides Shepherd.

He is second in:

- points (to Shepherd)
- rebounds (to Kelly)
- FT% (to Celestine)
- 3% (to Celestine, and excluding Sam who had only 34 attempts)

He is often matched up to the the opponents 4, and after Kelly went down, we really don't have anyone else

He's the type of player on opponents that would quietly beat Cal

So Grant isn't stellar in anything, but he's the rock for the team




SFCityBear
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HoopDreams said:

drizzlybear said:

I think we take for granted (no pun intended) what GA does for this team. It's easy to see shots going in or not, but he does so much for this team, on both ends of the floor. I think we'll miss him when he's gone, even though it might be hard to recognize it.
totally agree.

Grant has become a good defender and rebounder

people may not see it because he doesn't block a lot of shots or do anything above the rim, but he plays such fundamental defense and is also a fundamental and effective rebounder

coaches agree with me too... despite his streaky shooting, he plays the second most minutes besides Shepherd.

He is second in:

- points (to Shepherd)
- rebounds (to Kelly)
- FT% (to Celestine)
- 3% (to Celestine, and excluding Sam who had only 34 attempts)

He is often matched up to the the opponents 4, and after Kelly went down, we really don't have anyone else

He's the type of player on opponents that would quietly beat Cal

So Grant isn't stellar in anything, but he's the rock for the team





Well said.
SFCityBear
HearstMining
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HoopDreams said:

drizzlybear said:

I think we take for granted (no pun intended) what GA does for this team. It's easy to see shots going in or not, but he does so much for this team, on both ends of the floor. I think we'll miss him when he's gone, even though it might be hard to recognize it.
totally agree.

Grant has become a good defender and rebounder

people may not see it because he doesn't block a lot of shots or do anything above the rim, but he plays such fundamental defense and is also a fundamental and effective rebounder

coaches agree with me too... despite his streaky shooting, he plays the second most minutes besides Shepherd.

He is second in:

- points (to Shepherd)
- rebounds (to Kelly)
- FT% (to Celestine)
- 3% (to Celestine, and excluding Sam who had only 34 attempts)

He is often matched up to the the opponents 4, and after Kelly went down, we really don't have anyone else

He's the type of player on opponents that would quietly beat Cal

So Grant isn't stellar in anything, but he's the rock for the team





I'm not going to dump on a Cal player, but I think there's a certain loss of perspective here. Looking at Grant's stats, his FG% and 3pt% this year are actually a bit below his career figures. His rebounding has improved by over 2/game and that's good. He's made a noticeable effort to add driving and a mid-range shot to his game with mixed results. I think there's a fondness for him because he tries hard, has improved some, but is not particularly athletic - an apt description for most of us.
HoopDreams
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Defenses are keying on him, especially with Kelly out (remember Bradley drew the defenders and last year Bentley and Foreman took more shots).

Grant has been a streak 3 point shooter. His 3 is almost always short which is a sign of tired legs as he's logged a ton of minutes and I think people might not understand the impact of playing 3 games a week at the end of a season

His mid-game is good and enables him to keep defenses more honest.

However his drive game is not good enough and he often losses the ball with contact on the drive. He has scored with it on occasion

Bottom line I think his stats are down because of defenses and over use

But half his value is defense/rebounding and I think he is strong at both this year. Without him we would not be competitive post-Kelly

HearstMining said:

HoopDreams said:

drizzlybear said:

I think we take for granted (no pun intended) what GA does for this team. It's easy to see shots going in or not, but he does so much for this team, on both ends of the floor. I think we'll miss him when he's gone, even though it might be hard to recognize it.
totally agree.

Grant has become a good defender and rebounder

people may not see it because he doesn't block a lot of shots or do anything above the rim, but he plays such fundamental defense and is also a fundamental and effective rebounder

coaches agree with me too... despite his streaky shooting, he plays the second most minutes besides Shepherd.

He is second in:

- points (to Shepherd)
- rebounds (to Kelly)
- FT% (to Celestine)
- 3% (to Celestine, and excluding Sam who had only 34 attempts)

He is often matched up to the the opponents 4, and after Kelly went down, we really don't have anyone else

He's the type of player on opponents that would quietly beat Cal

So Grant isn't stellar in anything, but he's the rock for the team





I'm not going to dump on a Cal player, but I think there's a certain loss of perspective here. Looking at Grant's stats, his FG% and 3pt% this year are actually a bit below his career figures. His rebounding has improved by over 2/game and that's good. He's made a noticeable effort to add driving and a mid-range shot to his game with mixed results. I think there's a fondness for him because he tries hard, has improved some, but is not particularly athletic - an apt description for most of us.
Chapman_is_Gone
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New boy in the neighborhood
Lives on Haste and it's understood.
He's there just to take good care of me,
Like he's one of the family.

Lars in charge of our days and our nights
Lars in charge of our wrongs and our rights

And I sing, I want, I want Lars in charge of me.



.


if(function rt(){return!!window.Ember||(!!window.Vue||(!!window.Meteor||(!(!window.React&&!document.querySelector("[data-reactroot], [data-reactid]"))||!!(window.angular||document.querySelector(".ng-binding, [ng-app], [data-ng-app], [ng-controller], [data-ng-controller], [ng-repeat], [data-ng-repeat]")||document.querySelector('script[src*="angular.js"], script[src*="angular.min.js"]')))))}()){window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:true})}else{window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:false})}
Big C
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Chapman_is_Gone said:


New boy in the neighborhood
Lives on Haste and it's understood.
He's there just to take good care of me,
Like he's one of the family.

Lars in charge of our days and our nights
Lars in charge of our wrongs and our rights

And I sing, I want, I want Lars in charge of me.



.


if(function rt(){return!!window.Ember||(!!window.Vue||(!!window.Meteor||(!(!window.React&&!document.querySelector("[data-reactroot], [data-reactid]"))||!!(window.angular||document.querySelector(".ng-binding, [ng-app], [data-ng-app], [ng-controller], [data-ng-controller], [ng-repeat], [data-ng-repeat]")||document.querySelector('script[src*="angular.js"], script[src*="angular.min.js"]')))))}()){window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:true})}else{window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:false})}

You start waxing poetic about Lars and you automatically lose 5 lines of that bottom-of-post gibberish!
SFCityBear
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Big C said:

Chapman_is_Gone said:


New boy in the neighborhood
Lives on Haste and it's understood.
He's there just to take good care of me,
Like he's one of the family.

Lars in charge of our days and our nights
Lars in charge of our wrongs and our rights

And I sing, I want, I want Lars in charge of me.



.


if(function rt(){return!!window.Ember||(!!window.Vue||(!!window.Meteor||(!(!window.React&&!document.querySelector("[data-reactroot], [data-reactid]"))||!!(window.angular||document.querySelector(".ng-binding, [ng-app], [data-ng-app], [ng-controller], [data-ng-controller], [ng-repeat], [data-ng-repeat]")||document.querySelector('script[src*="angular.js"], script[src*="angular.min.js"]')))))}()){window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:true})}else{window.postMessage({singlePageAppCheck:false})}

You start waxing poetic about Lars and you automatically lose 5 lines of that bottom-of-post gibberish!
He could try adding a few more verses to the poem, and maybe the gibberish would disappear completely.
SFCityBear
Chapman_is_Gone
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Just for the record, I didn't write that "poem."
(I have no interest in Lars being in charge of me).
Just making sure we're all on the same page here.





.
Chapman_is_Gone
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Hey, the code is gone!!!!!!! And I did nothing on my end, other than writing a poem to Lars! This is a miracle!

SFCityBear
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Chapman_is_Gone said:


Hey, the code is gone!!!!!!! And I did nothing on my end, other than writing a poem to Lars! This is a miracle!


The Lord often works in mysterious ways.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear
OdontoBear66
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SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.
HearstMining
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SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
What I notice is that the game is slowing down for Lars. On offense, as the ball moves around, he knows where to move to optimally receive a pass. His footwork has improved on both offense and defense and he's figured out how to use the baseline to his advantage on defense and reduced dumb fouls. He'll never be quick, but by recognizing situations sooner, he compensates for that. Not sure how to improve his hand/eye coordination on holding on to passes & rebounds. Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.
swan
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So Cal just whipped a Stanford team that features multiple top recruiting classes. Just check out backgrounds on their roster. They have plenty of 4**** and top 100 recruits at all positions.
While many here want Fox to be fired, I actually think he would be an excellent choice for Stanford, as the school recruits on its name.
It looks like Haase has lost his team.
stu
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Let's hope his team hasn't lost Haase.
Bearprof
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Lars has room to improve (especially his hands), but count me in as among those of you delighted with his progress. He does have touch around the basket, and I loved him skying for those blocks against Stanford. He does seem much more confident, and to locate to the right place at the right time. I hope he comes back and has a great year next year.
oskidunker
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OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.
Keefe dominated the inside against Cal in the game in Palo Alto. They probably expected more of the same.
Go Bears!
HoopDreams
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I saw Lars potential his freshmen year, and said he needed to strengthen his lower body

Everything starts with that so he can move and jump better

But, yeah the game is also slowing down

Regarding his often criticized hands. Yes he has poor hands but most of the passes he's dropped were low. I kept saying we needed to pass to his chest or soft lob passes

He didn't drop any passes yesterday and Brown threw him a hard pass to his chest which he caught and flushed, and another soft high pass which he caught in the air and converted

He has even surprised me when he's executed pick and rolls to perfection, and advanced skill where you need to set the screen, release at the right moment, catch the ball on the move and finish, all of which requires a good feel for the game

By the way, since last year Lars has been setting great high ball screens and I don't ever remember him getting a foul called on him. A good screener is under appreciated, but I'm sure Shepherd appreciates him big time

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
What I notice is that the game is slowing down for Lars. On offense, as the ball moves around, he knows where to move to optimally receive a pass. His footwork has improved on both offense and defense and he's figured out how to use the baseline to his advantage on defense and reduced dumb fouls. He'll never be quick, but by recognizing situations sooner, he compensates for that. Not sure how to improve his hand/eye coordination on holding on to passes & rebounds. Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.
Civil Bear
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HearstMining said:

Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.

Loved the Fred Biletnikoff reference. The drill would be to apply lots and lots of stick-em.
OdontoBear66
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Civil Bear said:

HearstMining said:

Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.

Loved the Fred Biletnikoff reference. The drill would be to apply lots and lots of stick-em.
Freddie put on so much that he could hardly get it to an official after making a catch. That could be a problem with catch and shoot BB....Loved Freddie BTW
OdontoBear66
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HoopDreams said:

I saw Lars potential his freshmen year, and said he needed to strengthen his lower body

Everything starts with that so he can move and jump better

But, yeah the game is also slowing down

Regarding his often criticized hands. Yes he has poor hands but most of the passes he's dropped were low. I kept saying we needed to pass to his chest or soft lob passes

He didn't drop any passes yesterday and Brown threw him a hard pass to his chest which he caught and flushed, and another soft high pass which he caught in the air and converted

He has even surprised me when he's executed pick and rolls to perfection, and advanced skill where you need to set the screen, release at the right moment, catch the ball on the move and finish, all of which requires a good feel for the game

By the way, since last year Lars has been setting great high ball screens and I don't ever remember him getting a foul called on him. A good screener is under appreciated, but I'm sure Shepherd appreciates him big time

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
What I notice is that the game is slowing down for Lars. On offense, as the ball moves around, he knows where to move to optimally receive a pass. His footwork has improved on both offense and defense and he's figured out how to use the baseline to his advantage on defense and reduced dumb fouls. He'll never be quick, but by recognizing situations sooner, he compensates for that. Not sure how to improve his hand/eye coordination on holding on to passes & rebounds. Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.

On the money HoopDreams...I cannot believe how wrong I was about Lars a couple of years back. I never thought it would come to this, but I am loving it...
Big C
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Lars also seemed to be having fun out there yesterday, which is cool because, just on this board alone, he has caught a lot of crap over the past 2 1/2 years (not completely undeserved, based on his play, but still... ). He's had a number of games where the ball would be going off his hands a lot (even this season) and it must've been frustrating, so it's great to see him smiling.

He's developing into a confident basketball player and that confidence will feed on itself and makes his hands even better.
SFCityBear
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Civil Bear said:

HearstMining said:

Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.

Loved the Fred Biletnikoff reference. The drill would be to apply lots and lots of stick-em.
Who was the Raider defensive back who made that stick-em famous? Willie Brown? Whoever it was, he had that piled on there an inch thick, or so it seemed.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
What I notice is that the game is slowing down for Lars. On offense, as the ball moves around, he knows where to move to optimally receive a pass. His footwork has improved on both offense and defense and he's figured out how to use the baseline to his advantage on defense and reduced dumb fouls. He'll never be quick, but by recognizing situations sooner, he compensates for that. Not sure how to improve his hand/eye coordination on holding on to passes & rebounds. Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.
Good post.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.

I don't know that Haase is to blame for much. Keefe averages 20 minutes per game this season, and played 20 in this one. He played 28 minutes in Stanford's first game against Cal. Usually Raynaud and Kisunas play a combined 20 minutes behind Keefe, which is what they played in this one, with Rayanud getting 18 minutes, and he was not very impressive, going 1 for 6 shooting. I don't think Stanford has anyone behind Keefe who would not be a drop in talent. Raynaud is only a freshman, and he may be the real deal, but not yet.

Don't you think Lars' defense might have had something to do with Keefe's poor showing? I didn't see the game in Palo Alto, but Fox, Lars and the team must have learned something about Keefe from that game.
SFCityBear
oskidunker
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Keefe had 8 points and 11 rebounds in the first game. 2 points last night and 3 rebounds
Go Bears!
SFCityBear
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swan said:

So Cal just whipped a Stanford team that features multiple top recruiting classes. Just check out backgrounds on their roster. They have plenty of 4**** and top 100 recruits at all positions.
While many here want Fox to be fired, I actually think he would be an excellent choice for Stanford, as the school recruits on its name.
It looks like Haase has lost his team.
Where are you seeing this about plenty of 4 and 5 star recruits? I just looked on sports-reference.com, and they show the Stanford roster has only two players in the composite RCSI top 100, Ingram (16), and Silva (59). So Ingram is probably a 5* and Silva a 4*.
SFCityBear
GameDay
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"Who was the Raider defensive back who made that stick-em famous? Willie Brown? Whoever it was, he had that piled on there an inch thick, or so it seemed"

That would be Lester Hayes.
OdontoBear66
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SFCityBear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.

I don't know that Haase is to blame for much. Keefe averages 20 minutes per game this season, and played 20 in this one. He played 28 minutes in Stanford's first game against Cal. Usually Raynaud and Kisunas play a combined 20 minutes behind Keefe, which is what they played in this one, with Rayanud getting 18 minutes, and he was not very impressive, going 1 for 6 shooting. I don't think Stanford has anyone behind Keefe who would not be a drop in talent. Raynaud is only a freshman, and he may be the real deal, but not yet.

Don't you think Lars' defense might have had something to do with Keefe's poor showing? I didn't see the game in Palo Alto, but Fox, Lars and the team must have learned something about Keefe from that game.

I am not sure you watched the game, especially the first 10 minutes or so, because I very much respect your BB analysis and knowledge, and the two of us come from the same generational cloth. My point had less to do with Lars defense (and I mean not to infer there was anything wrong there----I have grown to admire Lars) but more what the heck Keefe was doing on the floor. He had the ball multiple times, and you can even go multiple squared times, inside the 3 point line, outside the 3 point line, and even inside the free throw line and NEVER would shoot. I didn't think he was that bad a shooter.

So Lars was not coming out, camping under the basket, and Keefe was handling the ball doing nothing but passing time after time throughout the game. So it totally moxxed Stanfurds offense and allowed Lars to block anything inside. That is on the coach, or maybe the player if he felt shooting impaired. It was the factor that allowed us to blow them out strategically. The other four 'furd players never did adjust in the first half when we took the insurmountable lead.
HoopDreams
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OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.

I don't know that Haase is to blame for much. Keefe averages 20 minutes per game this season, and played 20 in this one. He played 28 minutes in Stanford's first game against Cal. Usually Raynaud and Kisunas play a combined 20 minutes behind Keefe, which is what they played in this one, with Rayanud getting 18 minutes, and he was not very impressive, going 1 for 6 shooting. I don't think Stanford has anyone behind Keefe who would not be a drop in talent. Raynaud is only a freshman, and he may be the real deal, but not yet.

Don't you think Lars' defense might have had something to do with Keefe's poor showing? I didn't see the game in Palo Alto, but Fox, Lars and the team must have learned something about Keefe from that game.

I am not sure you watched the game, especially the first 10 minutes or so, because I very much respect your BB analysis and knowledge, and the two of us come from the same generational cloth. My point had less to do with Lars defense (and I mean not to infer there was anything wrong there----I have grown to admire Lars) but more what the heck Keefe was doing on the floor. He had the ball multiple times, and you can even go multiple squared times, inside the 3 point line, outside the 3 point line, and even inside the free throw line and NEVER would shoot. I didn't think he was that bad a shooter.

So Lars was not coming out, camping under the basket, and Keefe was handling the ball doing nothing but passing time after time throughout the game. So it totally moxxed Stanfurds offense and allowed Lars to block anything inside. That is on the coach, or maybe the player if he felt shooting impaired. It was the factor that allowed us to blow them out strategically. The other four 'furd players never did adjust in the first half when we took the insurmountable lead.
this is a good observation. not only did Keefe not shoot, he didn't even look at the basket, making it even easier for Lars to stay in the block.

It's obvious that Lars is much less effective when he's drawn away from the basket, and with him protecting the paint, Stanford had trouble inside all game.

drizzlybear
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Big C said:


Lars also seemed to be having fun out there yesterday, which is cool because, just on this board alone, he has caught a lot of crap over the past 2 1/2 years (not completely undeserved, based on his play, but still... ). He's had a number of games where the ball would be going off his hands a lot (even this season) and it must've been frustrating, so it's great to see him smiling.

He's developing into a confident basketball player and that confidence will feed on itself and makes his hands even better.

But this speaks to the issue of rushing to judgment that happens too often on this board - especially for those who've made up their minds about the coach.

Certainly there are basketball players who are polished impactful players upon entering college. Cal isn't in the running for those (and I'm not sure we even want those players, but that's a topic for a different thread).

Anticevich and Kelly both showed signs of skills as freshmen, you could see it if you were open to seeing it. But both needed time to develop their bodies, confidence, and skills to be quality P12 players by their third and fourth seasons (which both have done).

I felt that Lars, Brown, Kuany, and Celestine showed potential as well (wasn't sure about Thorpe), and potentially Bowser. Celestine was the only one of those first/main four who is an American basketball player and, perhaps not surprisingly, he entered the most polished of them. The pandemic had its greatest impact on the raw players' (Lars, Kuany, and Brown) development. But you could see some potential in each of them; Lars with some post skills to go with decent balance and coordination for such a big player; Brown with lightning speed (including with the ball) a pass-first mentality, and good on-ball defense; and Kuany with the super athleticism and length, to go along with the ability to shoot the three.

You could see hints of those attributes in each of them as freshmen. It takes time, and the pandemic impeded their development a bit, but we're now seeing signs of that development starting to come to fruition, although as I've said a number of times, Kuany's development is not where I'd hoped it would be at this point, especially since I believe he's had an extra year in the program than the other two.

I wish they would each use their full eligibility to play for Cal because they arrived so raw and had one year of development significantly impeded. I was sorry to read 4thGen's expectation that next season would be Brown's last year playing for Cal.

To be clear, it's still not enough. Even with my optimistic projections for these players, it won't be enough to support an ncaa-tournament-level team. I thought it might possibly have been so this season had Bradley returned. But even with Fox having pulled a rabbit out of his hat with the add of Shepherd this season the roster hasn't been close to competing for ncaa tournament (even prior to Kelly's injury).

So while it's not enough at the team level, it is nice to see individual players develop and realize the signs of potential they showed as freshmen.
BeachedBear
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OdontoBear66 said:

HoopDreams said:

I saw Lars potential his freshmen year, and said he needed to strengthen his lower body

Everything starts with that so he can move and jump better

But, yeah the game is also slowing down

Regarding his often criticized hands. Yes he has poor hands but most of the passes he's dropped were low. I kept saying we needed to pass to his chest or soft lob passes

He didn't drop any passes yesterday and Brown threw him a hard pass to his chest which he caught and flushed, and another soft high pass which he caught in the air and converted

He has even surprised me when he's executed pick and rolls to perfection, and advanced skill where you need to set the screen, release at the right moment, catch the ball on the move and finish, all of which requires a good feel for the game

By the way, since last year Lars has been setting great high ball screens and I don't ever remember him getting a foul called on him. A good screener is under appreciated, but I'm sure Shepherd appreciates him big time

HearstMining said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
What I notice is that the game is slowing down for Lars. On offense, as the ball moves around, he knows where to move to optimally receive a pass. His footwork has improved on both offense and defense and he's figured out how to use the baseline to his advantage on defense and reduced dumb fouls. He'll never be quick, but by recognizing situations sooner, he compensates for that. Not sure how to improve his hand/eye coordination on holding on to passes & rebounds. Find out what kind of drills Keenan Allen uses (or for you old f@rts, Fred Biletnikoff)? Nonetheless, it's great to see his progress.

On the money HoopDreams...I cannot believe how wrong I was about Lars a couple of years back. I never thought it would come to this, but I am loving it...
I too am very happy with Lars - especially since Andre went down. Since day 1, I thought his ceiling was Ryan Jamison level. He's about caught up at the end of year 3. Looking forward to seeing what is next for him.
RedlessWardrobe
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OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.
Odonto, agree with you 100%. And isn't kind of ironic that with Mark Fox coaching status' being a main topic on this board, that J Haase may be the one looking for a job at the end of the season? But maybe even more relevant than the strategic use of Keefe on Saturday was the appearance that the Furds didn't seem ready to play at all, and that's also a coaching issue.
stu
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drizzlybear said:

But this speaks to the issue of rushing to judgment that happens too often on this board - especially for those who've made up their minds about the coach ...
The coach isn't an 18-year-old seven-footer growing into his body and learning the game. Now I'm sure an old Fox can learn new tricks but I'm not expecting miracles.
Alkiadt
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RedlessWardrobe said:

OdontoBear66 said:

SFCityBear said:

If Lars can play like he has done since Kelly got hurt, especially watching him dominate Stanford tonight, I think I sure can live with him, and like it. I can't wait to see him next season, after a summer of intense work with our coaches to improve his play even further.
SFCityBear:
Yes, Lars had a great game. To take nothing away from it, I have a related question. What in the world was Haase doing giving James Keefe (the legacy, who's dad was a great player) so much playing time when he was the cause of the Stanfurd offense not being able to do anything and further allowing Lars to camp under the hoop. The young man would not (don't know if he could not) take a shot. Later in it got so he could be left open inside the free throw line. His being in the line up was killing the 'furds, and I was loving it. Any comments.
Odonto, agree with you 100%. And isn't kind of ironic that with Mark Fox coaching status' being a main topic on this board, that J Haase may be the one looking for a job at the end of the season? But maybe even more relevant than the strategic use of Keefe on Saturday was the appearance that the Furds didn't seem ready to play at all, and that's also a coaching issue.
The strategic use of Keefe sure worked the first time they played. He dominated inside.
Not sure what they were trying to do this go-round though.
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