Cleveland State loses as the #1 seed by 15 in the conference semi-finals. That is unacceptable. They are out of the NCAA tournament.
Gates
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Last: 2 yr ago by calumnus
"Unacceptable" in what regard? You would now not want him as Cal coach?calfanz said:
Cleveland State loses as the #1 seed by 15 in the conference semi-finals. That is unacceptable. They are out of the NCAA tournament.
Teams have bad days. Virginia a few years ago became the first #1 seed in the NCAA tournament to lose to a #16 seed. That does not mean Tony Bennett is a bad coach overall.calfanz said:
Cleveland State loses as the #1 seed by 15 in the conference semi-finals. That is unacceptable. They are out of the NCAA tournament.
Interesting how you value one game over a great season to get the #1 seed. I am withdrawing my nomination for you to join the committee to hire Cal's next coach.
Fire Gates. I mean hire him first. OK do we move onto Shantay? How are Portland's NCAA chances? How about Golden and USF? Of course I'm kidding, but I still stand by my position that we would do much better with Gates, Legans or Golden. We need new blood. Say no to career retreads.calfanz said:
Cleveland State loses as the #1 seed by 15 in the conference semi-finals. That is unacceptable. They are out of the NCAA tournament.
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
Cleveland state lost to the eventual conference champion
Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hike
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hike
mbBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
I think that is an oversimplification of the Martin issue. Not every minimally successful coach will not always jump to the next gig. That is a bigger issue for mid-majors, IMHO.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
Well there was also the fact that the university entangled him in a long investigation over mutual flirtation between one of his assistants and a reporter, and his son was denied admission to Cal. Also, I'm not positive about the timing, but if his last year coincided with Mike Williams taking over as AD, that in itself could have been the reason for him leaving.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
How Cal denied his son, a very good student, admissions to Cal is one of the biggest frustrations and lost opportunities of the decade
That, and not smoothing out the relationships with Matthews and his family, which would have kept Jordan at Cal and brought in his talented brother
If that happened, Cal would have returned to the NCAA and could have made a run
That, and not smoothing out the relationships with Matthews and his family, which would have kept Jordan at Cal and brought in his talented brother
If that happened, Cal would have returned to the NCAA and could have made a run
PtownBear1 said:Well there was also the fact that the university entangled him in a long investigation over mutual flirtation between one of his assistants and a reporter, and his son was denied admission to Cal. Also, I'm not positive about the timing, but if his last year coincided with Mike Williams taking over as AD, that in itself could have been the reason for him leaving.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
I don't think this is a real problem. If we find a coach that revives the program from its current vegetative state and get us into the tournament we should hire them regardless of if we think they might use this as a stepping stone. "How do we keep the guy who turned it around and got us a 6 seed and a sweet 16 run" is an infinitely better issue to be facing than "what kind of paperwork can the AD do to maybe help Fox eek out an 8th place finish" or "I think the one 3 star recruit considering us fell asleep at the game, didn't help that there were no fans within 10 rows of him".
You could apply the same thinking to recruiting. Why go after recruits with talent? If they pan out they'll just leave early for the NBA. We should go after guys who are projects with an upside of decent rotation player on a tournament team because they'll have no better options than to stay. Maybe this is Fox' strategy?
Also, even if someone is worried about this, there's not really much history of it happening at Cal. Braun had success for a while and chose to stay. Tedford had a lot of success for a while and chose to stay. Monty stayed until he retired. Even Cuonzo didn't get a 4 seed and bail, he left a year later coming off a CBI or NIT embarrassment and with the opportunity to double his pay. Heck, Wilcox has had basically no notable success and allegedly got offered a higher profile job that he turned down (that he was rumored to be offered due to the same concern cited here, prioritizing not leaving over winning). Are there any examples of head coaches in either revenue sport that did well here that we tried to keep and failed?
Agreed having a good coach that is sought after is a good thing. It should be normal. It's up to the AD to keep him AND have a good plan B should he leave.
BC Calfan said:
Agreed having a good coach that is sought after is a good thing. It should be normal. It's up to the AD to keep him AND have a good plan B should he leave.
Exactly. The prime examples of coaches leaving are: Snyder and Mooch. We should have countered Snyder and if that failed OC Mooch woouod have been a great plan B. The error was more Hiring Gilby.
Mooch wouldn't pass up the Niners, but OC Hue Jackson (I know, I know) would have been a great plan b. The error was hiring (and extending) Holmoe.
Stanford is far more willing to hire guys that move on to better jobs, they just keep hiring and hire guys that don't work out and keep trying.
They hit paydirt with the Harbaugh to Shaw succession. That is one of the big reasons to hive some preference to an alum as coach. If they work out they are more likely to stay and build a dynasty. Haase is likely fired. Glad we did not hire him because Knowlton would give him a 5 year extension.
I'm quite proud of the fact that Cal is not in the habit of giving applicants preferential consideration for admission based on who their parents are.HoopDreams said:
How Cal denied his son, a very good student, admissions to Cal is one of the biggest frustrations and lost opportunities of the decade
Good use of word "habit." True, Cal is not a legacy supermarket sweepstakes like the Ivy Leagues and Notre Dame but it still happens from time to time.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
We don't have a legacy admissions policy, nor do we have an affirmative actions admissions policy, but I understood he is a good student and schools like Harvard find a way
GoCal80 said:I'm quite proud of the fact that Cal is not in the habit of giving applicants preferential consideration for admission based on who their parents are.HoopDreams said:
How Cal denied his son, a very good student, admissions to Cal is one of the biggest frustrations and lost opportunities of the decade
HoopDreams said:
We don't have a legacy admissions policy, nor do we have an affirmative actions admissions policy, but I understood he is a good student and schools like Harvard find a wayGoCal80 said:I'm quite proud of the fact that Cal is not in the habit of giving applicants preferential consideration for admission based on who their parents are.HoopDreams said:
How Cal denied his son, a very good student, admissions to Cal is one of the biggest frustrations and lost opportunities of the decade
We have let in plenty of sons of coaches (and former pros) as "preferred walkons" which is how it should have been handled,
I agree with other posters that you are oversimplifying the Martin issue. Aside from the factors mentioned, Missouri gambled by offering Martin a huge pay raise with a lot of the money essentially guaranteed through generous buyout provisions in his contract. Cal could not and should not have matched given Martin's track record, and Martin would have been crazy to turn down Missouri. Martin has now been at Missouri for five years, and it is clear that their gamble failed. He has only had a winning record in conference one year (his first) and the program is on a bad trajectory (last in the conference this season). While it is true that some coaches use jobs as stepping stones, others such as Mark Few and Tony Bennett like where they are and won national championships at colleges that had never done so before. In addition, schools like Providence and Xavier have been used as stepping stones for years, but the sustained success helps attract top coaching and athletic talent. In short, I would love to have the problem of a coach so successful that other schools want to hire him away.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
It's unfortunate Cal completely mismanaged the opportunity we were given when Martin was hired away. We had decent talent, momentum, fan support and buyout money from Missouri. The decision to hire Wyking destroyed all of that.mdbear said:I agree with other posters that you are oversimplifying the Martin issue. Aside from the factors mentioned, Missouri gambled by offering Martin a huge pay raise with a lot of the money essentially guaranteed through generous buyout provisions in his contract. Cal could not and should not have matched given Martin's track record, and Martin would have been crazy to turn down Missouri. Martin has now been at Missouri for five years, and it is clear that their gamble failed. He has only had a winning record in conference one year (his first) and the program is on a bad trajectory (last in the conference this season). While it is true that some coaches use jobs as stepping stones, others such as Mark Few and Tony Bennett like where they are and won national championships at colleges that had never done so before. In addition, schools like Providence and Xavier have been used as stepping stones for years, but the sustained success helps attract top coaching and athletic talent. In short, I would love to have the problem of a coach so successful that other schools want to hire him away.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
Personally, I'm not surprised Martin has failed at Missouri. I didn't believe his approach was sustainable. His recruiting strategy was questionable, very little player development and the offense was atrocious. There was a reason Tennessee fans wanted him gone. I was ecstatic when Missouri hired him away and then devastated when Wyking was announced as his replacement. Hope returned when Wyking was fired and then quickly disappeared with the hiring of retread Fox. So it goes being a Cal fan.
The Cal men's basketball program died on 3/24/2017 when that obese cartoon character that served as our AD hired Wyking Jones.
Not particularly because Jones proved to be as bad as we all knew he would be, but because the hire announced to the conference and the world that Cal didn't care to be competitive with its peers.
In two weeks from today we hit the 5-year anniversary of the death. What a sad, self-induced state.
I have gone from sitting in Lodge seats (one step better than Chairbacks) to ignoring the insufferably-boring program and donating nothing. Cal gets what it deserves.
Not particularly because Jones proved to be as bad as we all knew he would be, but because the hire announced to the conference and the world that Cal didn't care to be competitive with its peers.
In two weeks from today we hit the 5-year anniversary of the death. What a sad, self-induced state.
I have gone from sitting in Lodge seats (one step better than Chairbacks) to ignoring the insufferably-boring program and donating nothing. Cal gets what it deserves.
Williams put the program into a coma on that day, but it was Knowlton's hiring of Fox which pulled the plug. There was still hope to have come out of the coma if a remotely desirable coach had been hired 3 years ago.
This strikes me as much less of a problem than the one we have, which is that we won't sniff the tournament again in life with Fox.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
For a coach like Few or Bennett to stay the school has to be committed to the program. That's not the case here. One could argue that it shouldn't be or that it should be and make valid points, but the fact is that there's nothing here to keep a successful coach whose profession is coaching basketball.mdbear said:I agree with other posters that you are oversimplifying the Martin issue. Aside from the factors mentioned, Missouri gambled by offering Martin a huge pay raise with a lot of the money essentially guaranteed through generous buyout provisions in his contract. Cal could not and should not have matched given Martin's track record, and Martin would have been crazy to turn down Missouri. Martin has now been at Missouri for five years, and it is clear that their gamble failed. He has only had a winning record in conference one year (his first) and the program is on a bad trajectory (last in the conference this season). While it is true that some coaches use jobs as stepping stones, others such as Mark Few and Tony Bennett like where they are and won national championships at colleges that had never done so before. In addition, schools like Providence and Xavier have been used as stepping stones for years, but the sustained success helps attract top coaching and athletic talent. In short, I would love to have the problem of a coach so successful that other schools want to hire him away.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
I get the jest of what you are saying, but the program hardly had talent or momentum coming off of Martin's last year. The best returning offensive player by a wide margin was Coleman, and the last game had like 500 fans.HKBear97! said:It's unfortunate Cal completely mismanaged the opportunity we were given when Martin was hired away. We had decent talent, momentum, fan support and buyout money from Missouri. The decision to hire Wyking destroyed all of that.mdbear said:I agree with other posters that you are oversimplifying the Martin issue. Aside from the factors mentioned, Missouri gambled by offering Martin a huge pay raise with a lot of the money essentially guaranteed through generous buyout provisions in his contract. Cal could not and should not have matched given Martin's track record, and Martin would have been crazy to turn down Missouri. Martin has now been at Missouri for five years, and it is clear that their gamble failed. He has only had a winning record in conference one year (his first) and the program is on a bad trajectory (last in the conference this season). While it is true that some coaches use jobs as stepping stones, others such as Mark Few and Tony Bennett like where they are and won national championships at colleges that had never done so before. In addition, schools like Providence and Xavier have been used as stepping stones for years, but the sustained success helps attract top coaching and athletic talent. In short, I would love to have the problem of a coach so successful that other schools want to hire him away.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
Personally, I'm not surprised Martin has failed at Missouri. I didn't believe his approach was sustainable. His recruiting strategy was questionable, very little player development and the offense was atrocious. There was a reason Tennessee fans wanted him gone. I was ecstatic when Missouri hired him away and then devastated when Wyking was announced as his replacement. Hope returned when Wyking was fired and then quickly disappeared with the hiring of retread Fox. So it goes being a Cal fan.
None of whom wanted to see more.Civil Bear said:
I get the jest of what you are saying, but the program hardly had talent or momentum coming off of Martin's last year. The best returning offensive player by a wide margin was Coleman, and the last game had like 500 fans.
Civil Bear said:I get the jest of what you are saying, but the program hardly had talent or momentum coming off of Martin's last year. The best returning offensive player by a wide margin was Coleman, and the last game had like 500 fans.HKBear97! said:It's unfortunate Cal completely mismanaged the opportunity we were given when Martin was hired away. We had decent talent, momentum, fan support and buyout money from Missouri. The decision to hire Wyking destroyed all of that.mdbear said:I agree with other posters that you are oversimplifying the Martin issue. Aside from the factors mentioned, Missouri gambled by offering Martin a huge pay raise with a lot of the money essentially guaranteed through generous buyout provisions in his contract. Cal could not and should not have matched given Martin's track record, and Martin would have been crazy to turn down Missouri. Martin has now been at Missouri for five years, and it is clear that their gamble failed. He has only had a winning record in conference one year (his first) and the program is on a bad trajectory (last in the conference this season). While it is true that some coaches use jobs as stepping stones, others such as Mark Few and Tony Bennett like where they are and won national championships at colleges that had never done so before. In addition, schools like Providence and Xavier have been used as stepping stones for years, but the sustained success helps attract top coaching and athletic talent. In short, I would love to have the problem of a coach so successful that other schools want to hire him away.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
Personally, I'm not surprised Martin has failed at Missouri. I didn't believe his approach was sustainable. His recruiting strategy was questionable, very little player development and the offense was atrocious. There was a reason Tennessee fans wanted him gone. I was ecstatic when Missouri hired him away and then devastated when Wyking was announced as his replacement. Hope returned when Wyking was fired and then quickly disappeared with the hiring of retread Fox. So it goes being a Cal fan.
That team had 5 seniors, plus Rabb declared for the NBA and Moore and Rooks departed. So there was going to be a huge incoming class.
The best offensive player coming back was Marcus Lee, who redshirted after transferring from Kentucky. Sueing was far and away the best freshman. Paris Austin redshirting after transferring. : the next year we added freshmen Bradley, Vanover and Kelly. That was a decent young core.
The biggest recruiting issue for Jones was he filled his first class with too many reaches. Unfortunately the transfer portal didn't begin until the following year, but a few grad transfers would have helped balance out the class. What he did, forcing players off the team, was unforgivable.
However, Vanover, Kelly, Sueing, Bradley, Austin with McNeil and Grant off the bench was a promising young roster (Austin, a junior, the only upperclassman). We just needed a coach tgst could retain that talent and then coach them up while adding more talent
DeCuire had just gone 26-9, won the Big Sky Champoonship for the second year in a row, taken his Montana team to the NCAA Tournament for the second year on a row. He knew Cal, recruited the West Coast. Even if, as reported, the only two coaches Knowlton interviewed were DeCuire and Fox, the choice should have been obvious.
These "death" analogies are way off base, IMO. There's no coming back from death, but if we commit to the practice facility we get a solid coach, we're back in it. Heck, we do one of those and it's a start (and one helps with the other).
This is absolutely not a hopeless situation, although it does take a pretty significant investment.
Big C said:
These "death" analogies are way off base, IMO. There's no coming back from death, but if we commit to the practice facility we get a solid coach, we're back in it. Heck, we do one of those and it's a start (and one helps with the other).
This is absolutely not a hopeless situation, although it does take a pretty significant investment.
This is college sports. The ONLY thing we need is a good coach. Tedford (early years Tedford, not late) took an absolute mess of a program and made it exciting again. You can do that even faster in basketball with the right hire. Do that and everything else will come to fruition.
Exactly. If you win everything falls into place: fan, student and admin support, recruiting,funding, facilities, school profile, etc. The easiest way to win is getting a good coach.
Good point. I'd like to see us look for a coach with experience raising a program from the depths rather than maintaining one already doing well.HKBear97! said:
This is college sports. The ONLY thing we need is a good coach. Tedford (early years Tedford, not late) took an absolute mess of a program and made it exciting again. You can do that even faster in basketball with the right hire. Do that and everything else will come to fruition.
You fools!
As I told the Mercury News, I wanted the Cal AD job full time... And I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling Cyberbears!!!
But seriously, can you believe they went and hired Mark Fox? Yeah, that unpleasant man from Georgia who never seems to win anything. Even I choked on my Cinnabon with extra frosting when I read that news. I mean, why not just forfeit?!!
HKBear97! said:Big C said:
These "death" analogies are way off base, IMO. There's no coming back from death, but if we commit to the practice facility we get a solid coach, we're back in it. Heck, we do one of those and it's a start (and one helps with the other).
This is absolutely not a hopeless situation, although it does take a pretty significant investment.
This is college sports. The ONLY thing we need is a good coach. Tedford (early years Tedford, not late) took an absolute mess of a program and made it exciting again. You can do that even faster in basketball with the right hire. Do that and everything else will come to fruition.
Where we stand now, coaches who might be the "right hire" look at us and see the only school in the conference without a practice facility. They don't even bother to interview. We're trying to compete with one hand tied behind our back. Check that... we're not really trying to compete.
My stepping stone comment had no relationship to the current situation
My comment also had no relationship to whether we change coaches or not
My comment was pointing out an additional challenge Cal has (like the negative recruiting factor of high academic requirements)
My comment also had no relationship to whether we change coaches or not
My comment was pointing out an additional challenge Cal has (like the negative recruiting factor of high academic requirements)
bluesaxe said:This strikes me as much less of a problem than the one we have, which is that we won't sniff the tournament again in life with Fox.HoopDreams said:
The problem with Cal is when we do find The Coach and gets Cal back to the tournament, will they jump ship ?
Look at Martin. Recruited well ONE year, got to NCAA (4 seed) One year, and boom … off to the next gig at a big pay hikembBear said:Big C said:
When you're consistently in the bottom third of a twelve-team conference (with no relief in sight), rolling the dice comes without a lot of cost. Golden, Gates, Legans, Pasternak, Somebody Else? Doesn't really matter. Pick one. Or work to get the practice facility going and wait a year... whatever.
If we want to spend time thinking about Gates, my first "worry" would be if he (and his agent) anticipate being in the running for a bigger/better job than Cal's? We can be critical that Knowlton isn't jumping to get him, but does he even want to come? Yes, an Alma Mater is often a nice appeal, but Gates still has Midwest roots-Cal isn't a "homecoming"...and he is now better known in the Midwest than ever before....
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