stu said:

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calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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HearstMining said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Dduster said:

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The Bears do not have enough talent to be competitive in the Pac 12. Phil Jackson could be the coach and 10th thru 12th will be the end result. You cannot tell the difference between 'walk-ons' and wasted scholarships.

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If Phil Jackson was the coach we wouldn't have the current talent deficit.

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Jackson realized that NBA success was way more about talent than coaching and I recall him saying he'd never take on a team that needed a complete rebuild.

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Kyle Smith took that on.

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Kyle Smith took that on at Columbia, USF and now at Washington State.

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We need a coach who can rebuild. But what we have is a coach who can maintain. Unfortunately there's nothing to maintain.

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think Fox has taught individual and team defense pretty well. To my eyes we mostly look like we know what we're doing at that end of the court.

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Cal this year has the #83 rated defense on Ken Pom. While that is far better than our offense, that is not particularly good, certainly not elite or NCAA Tournament worthy. Under Cuonzo we had the #19 rated defense.

Others this year:
San Diego State #2
St. Mary's #10
UCLA #14
San Francisco #23

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OdontoBear66 said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think Fox has taught individual and team defense pretty well. To my eyes we mostly look like we know what we're doing at that end of the court.

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Cal this year has the #83 rated defense on Ken Pom. While that is far better than our offense, that is not particularly good, certainly not elite or NCAA Tournament worthy. Under Cuonzo we had the #19 rated defense.

Others this year:
San Diego State #2
St. Mary's #10
UCLA #14
San Francisco #23

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Whoa, you've gotta compare your estimate of the general quality of player Fox has and with that I think #83 out of 326 is not bad. No fan of his staying, but c'mon, he doesn't not have a lot of stars on the roster. Just read U$C is losing a couple of good players but bringing in a 5*, 2 four stars, and a 3*....Speak to our roster.

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GMP said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think Fox has taught individual and team defense pretty well. To my eyes we mostly look like we know what we're doing at that end of the court.

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Cal this year has the #83 rated defense on Ken Pom. While that is far better than our offense, that is not particularly good, certainly not elite or NCAA Tournament worthy. Under Cuonzo we had the #19 rated defense.

Others this year:
San Diego State #2
St. Mary's #10
UCLA #14
San Francisco #23

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Whoa, you've gotta compare your estimate of the general quality of player Fox has and with that I think #83 out of 326 is not bad. No fan of his staying, but c'mon, he doesn't not have a lot of stars on the roster. Just read U$C is losing a couple of good players but bringing in a 5*, 2 four stars, and a 3*....Speak to our roster.

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Rarely are recruits ranked based on their defense. Mostly it's about coaching and desire.

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stu said:

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GMP said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think Fox has taught individual and team defense pretty well. To my eyes we mostly look like we know what we're doing at that end of the court.

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Cal this year has the #83 rated defense on Ken Pom. While that is far better than our offense, that is not particularly good, certainly not elite or NCAA Tournament worthy. Under Cuonzo we had the #19 rated defense.

Others this year:
San Diego State #2
St. Mary's #10
UCLA #14
San Francisco #23

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Whoa, you've gotta compare your estimate of the general quality of player Fox has and with that I think #83 out of 326 is not bad. No fan of his staying, but c'mon, he doesn't not have a lot of stars on the roster. Just read U$C is losing a couple of good players but bringing in a 5*, 2 four stars, and a 3*....Speak to our roster.

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Rarely are recruits ranked based on their defense. Mostly it's about coaching and desire.

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I think length, strength, quickness, vision, BBIQ also contribute to defense.

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calumnus said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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calumnus said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think Fox has taught individual and team defense pretty well. To my eyes we mostly look like we know what we're doing at that end of the court.

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Cal this year has the #83 rated defense on Ken Pom. While that is far better than our offense, that is not particularly good, certainly not elite or NCAA Tournament worthy. Under Cuonzo we had the #19 rated defense.

Others this year:
San Diego State #2
St. Mary's #10
UCLA #14
San Francisco #23

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Whoa, you've gotta compare your estimate of the general quality of player Fox has and with that I think #83 out of 326 is not bad. No fan of his staying, but c'mon, he doesn't not have a lot of stars on the roster. Just read U$C is losing a couple of good players but bringing in a 5*, 2 four stars, and a 3*....Speak to our roster.

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You are using as his excuse for having a worse defense that St. Mary's and San Francisco get much better athletes than he does?

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Actually what I was saying is that #83 is pretty good when if I were to rate our entire roster relative to the entire NCAA, my guess would be between 200-250 somewhere. So coaching defense at an #83 rating is not bad for the tools you have in your bin. And I am not making excuses for Fox at all. I wish he were gone, but am trying to be somewhat objective. His biggest downfalls so far are his recruiting and ability to get top quality players to Cal.
And I would also guess we are way, way down in being rated offensively.

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Yeah, It is the 7th best defense in the conference. So pretty average, if not slightly below. But maybe better than some would think, worse than others seem to think.

Our offense is #221 which is 12th in conference. So comparatively, the defense is much better, but not what I would call "good." It just seems that way compared to the offense, That is what I mean.

And there are over 330 schools playing basketball, most are not in P5. Those schools have always been our athletic peers, not UC Davis, UC San Diego etc. The many small schools, small conference schools should not have better offenses than Cal.

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calumnus said:

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.....

My main point is that Fox emphasizes defense, but his teams don't really play great defense, not like elite defensive teams. We play average PAC-12 defense. Fox's teams limit the other team's scoring by stretching the clock on both sides of the ball to limit the number of possessions, which also limits our scoring as well. We were #330 in tempo. That is the most obvious characteristic of his teams. He plays slow and tries to milk the clock he wants his players to deny all shots, not just good shots.

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BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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.....

My main point is that Fox emphasizes defense, but his teams don't really play great defense, not like elite defensive teams. We play average PAC-12 defense. Fox's teams limit the other team's scoring by stretching the clock on both sides of the ball to limit the number of possessions, which also limits our scoring as well. We were #330 in tempo. That is the most obvious characteristic of his teams. He plays slow and tries to milk the clock he wants his players to deny all shots, not just good shots.

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I would add that watching the team this year - they were generally playing VERY GOOD DEFENSE, except when they weren't. I'm not saying the metrics were significantly better, but simply the individual and team execution was better. First off - fewer mistakes. Second off - better fundamentals (footwork, positioning), Third off - better team concepts (spacing, timing, help, communication).

HOWEVER (and this is a big however) - that was probably the optimal defensive performance for this talent group. Yes - that's damning praise. The players and staff get credit for maximizing their efficiency. In particular, I noticed dramatic improvement from Grant, Lars and Kuany this year defensively. But Cal simply doesn't have the talent level to be a top defensive team - and doesn't look like they will for a while.

Even when they play their best, like this year - it took 3 season for most to get to this level of average. The team needs to be able to get to this level at the end of 1 year - not three. And then get better in year 2.

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heartofthebear said:

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coaching matters
and fox doesn't coach offense

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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Wilcox is a genuinely good guy who cares about his players and that comes through to recruits. Recruits talk about the "family atmosphere." In personality and temperament he is a good fit for Cal and Cal student athletes. His challenge is 1) producing an offense and 2) he might be too laid back. He needs to be able to show more enthusiasm, fire up the troops.

The HC's personality is far more important in basketball because of the smaller numbers, the players are working directly with the HC every day.

Dennis Gates has a great positive demeanor and philosophy that his players really respond too. Travis DeCuire at Cal was the calm encouraging coach instructing the players when Monty had to just sit and fold his arms so he wouldn't piss off or discourage his players or get tossed by the refs.

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socaltownie said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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Wilcox is a genuinely good guy who cares about his players and that comes through to recruits. Recruits talk about the "family atmosphere." In personality and temperament he is a good fit for Cal and Cal student athletes. His challenge is 1) producing an offense and 2) he might be too laid back. He needs to be able to show more enthusiasm, fire up the troops.

The HC's personality is far more important in basketball because of the smaller numbers, the players are working directly with the HC every day.

Dennis Gates has a great positive demeanor and philosophy that his players really respond too. Travis DeCuire at Cal was the calm encouraging coach instructing the players when Monty had to just sit and fold his arms so he wouldn't piss off or discourage his players or get tossed by the refs.

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My own take is that Wilcox's progress has been hampered by some glaring problems in the offense - notably Chase's inability to throw the long ball with accuracy AND the lack of speed among our receiver corp. It ultimately met that people could play us with man and stack the box....which made EVERYTHING look bad. Plus we haven't recruited well/developed our Oline. Next year should be interesting - I know we are thin at QB but we have a good OL at least on paper and that is the engine that drives the football car.

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oskidunker said:

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When Wilcox refused the Oregon job his popularity here went up,, worst losing record in 100;years in the pac12. We need to go over 500 in the conference

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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Wilcox is a genuinely good guy who cares about his players and that comes through to recruits. Recruits talk about the "family atmosphere." In personality and temperament he is a good fit for Cal and Cal student athletes. His challenge is 1) producing an offense and 2) he might be too laid back. He needs to be able to show more enthusiasm, fire up the troops.

The HC's personality is far more important in basketball because of the smaller numbers, the players are working directly with the HC every day.

Dennis Gates has a great positive demeanor and philosophy that his players really respond too. Travis DeCuire at Cal was the calm encouraging coach instructing the players when Monty had to just sit and fold his arms so he wouldn't piss off or discourage his players or get tossed by the refs.

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oskidunker said:

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When Wilcox refused the Oregon job his popularity here went up,, worst losing record in 100;years in the pac12. We need to go over 500 in the conference

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HoopDreams said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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Wilcox is a genuinely good guy who cares about his players and that comes through to recruits. Recruits talk about the "family atmosphere." In personality and temperament he is a good fit for Cal and Cal student athletes. His challenge is 1) producing an offense and 2) he might be too laid back. He needs to be able to show more enthusiasm, fire up the troops.

The HC's personality is far more important in basketball because of the smaller numbers, the players are working directly with the HC every day.

Dennis Gates has a great positive demeanor and philosophy that his players really respond too. Travis DeCuire at Cal was the calm encouraging coach instructing the players when Monty had to just sit and fold his arms so he wouldn't piss off or discourage his players or get tossed by the refs.

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I sometimes listen to ESPN U radio morning show

one of the two hosts is former UCLA football coach Rick Neuheisel. He is so smooth. I can imagine he would do very well with recruits and their parents

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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I think our football program recruits better and Musgrave brought some life to the offense.

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Wilcox is a genuinely good guy who cares about his players and that comes through to recruits. Recruits talk about the "family atmosphere." In personality and temperament he is a good fit for Cal and Cal student athletes. His challenge is 1) producing an offense and 2) he might be too laid back. He needs to be able to show more enthusiasm, fire up the troops.

The HC's personality is far more important in basketball because of the smaller numbers, the players are working directly with the HC every day.

Dennis Gates has a great positive demeanor and philosophy that his players really respond too. Travis DeCuire at Cal was the calm encouraging coach instructing the players when Monty had to just sit and fold his arms so he wouldn't piss off or discourage his players or get tossed by the refs.

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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oskidunker said:

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When Wilcox refused the Oregon job his popularity here went up,, worst losing record in 100;years in the pac12. We need to go over 500 in the conference

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So you love Fox and dislike Wilcox. Very interesting.

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HoopDreams said:

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I sometimes listen to ESPN U radio morning show

one of the two hosts is former UCLA football coach Rick Neuheisel. He is so smooth. I can imagine he would do very well with recruits and their parents

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