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Mark Fox, Bears Look For Big Step Forward

September 27, 2022
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Late September, into October, is a sports fan’s dream season. Baseball heads to its playoffs. Football, both college and the NFL, are in full swing and seasons are beginning to take shape. And, hockey and basketball are beginning their camps, with all the hope that exists when every team is still undefeated. So many sports, so little time and attention to offer each.

The 2022-2023 Cal Men’s basketball squad began their regular-season practice sessions Monday.  Everyone, in every program, is positive and confident in their prospects for the upcoming season, of course, but in the case of Golden Bears hoops, that confidence might just be well-placed.

Monday also featured a Zoom-only availability with head coach Mark Fox, now in his fourth year at Haas Pavilion, along with seniors Lars Thiemann and Kuany Kuany, known to his teammates as “2K”.  All seemed genuinely excited for what their futures hold.

Thiemann spoke at some length about the team’s opportunity to play games in Europe this past summer. He was very pleased to show his teammates the culture, history and architecture of his home country and continent, but also happy to do some exploring on his own, as he had never been either to Paris, or to the part of Belgium the team visited.

“For me,” Thiemann said, “what was most exciting was to go to Düsseldorf, almost my home city, for the guys to see where I’m from, and then we had a game there and played against my old team. I thought it was a great trip for us, as teammates, to bond and to get closer – the shared experience I think will help us become closer, more of a brotherhood.”

Asked what new things he saw, Thiemann noted, “I’d never seen Paris, it was cool, such a beautiful city, even the touristy sights were cool to see.”

Kuany echoed those sentiments, with the additional note that it was ALL new for him: “The trip was a great experience because I’d never been to Europe, getting to bond with my teammates on a long flight. The coolest thing I saw was the PSG (Paris Saint-Germain) Stadium,  (Les Parc des Princes), because I’m pretty big on soccer and just to see that stadium was really cool, especially for my teammates to be able to share the moment.”

2K went on to say that the experience of playing two games together in the summer would be very beneficial going forward, noting, “We’ve got a lot of new players.” That might be an understatement, actually.

Cal has four complete newcomers, plus a fifth player who redshirted last season, all of whom are expected to be contributors in Fox’s rotation, which he expects to be 9, but possibly 10 players once the season settles in.  “I would like to be able to play nine,” Fox said, “can we get to 10? We’ll see. We’ve got a lot of competition for minutes right now – it’s kind of fun to see every day. We’ve got a lot of guys battling, and a month to figure it out.”

The four newcomers are Irishman ND Okafor (6’-9”, 235 lbs.); 6’-8”, 220 lb. freshman Grant Newell, from Chicago but with an extra year at IMG Academy in Brandenton, Florida; and transfers Devin Askew and DeJuan Clayton.  Okafor, who has extensive international experience, is a “5”, like Thiemann, but both Thiemann and Fox think Okafor might see the floor with Thiemann at various times during the year. Fox actually said, “I can play ND at any position from the 2 up to the 5 if I need to,” although that’s no guarantee we will see the big man spotting up on the wing very often.

When asked who has surprised him the most so far this year, Fox immediately said, “there’s no doubt, it’s Grant Newell. He came in and, from Day 1, he’s been impressive with how he works, how he finishes, with how responsible he is. He just has a lot of positive traits on and off the court. I don’t think there’s anyone on our staff who would say differently; Grant has been a tremendous surprise out of the gate.”

Asked if the 2022-23 squad would play a quicker tempo than recent squads have, Fox said, “I think in the past we’ve played a slower tempo than we wanted to because of the talent. Now that we have more depth, I think you’ll see us play a faster pace and see more balance offensively. Obviously, it’s an area we have worked hard on this summer. I think the two transfer guards will impact that area immediately.”

We asked Coach Fox who would be able to lead the team when they really want to run the floor, and he said, “I’d say Joel (returning senior Joel Brown) and Devin (Askew) are the best in that area. They are really good on the open floor and are fast on the dribble.”

Askew left high school a year early and enrolled at Kentucky. He was projected as the #1 point guard in the nation with his graduating class, but experienced expected growing pains jumping to an elite program in Lexington. Fox was asked about his confidence level as he has transferred to now his third NCAA program: “I think that’s a good question. Obviously, he took on something that, when I recruited him, I recommended he NOT skip his senior year. But he’s a talented player. We’ve worked hard (for him) to regain his confidence and aggressiveness. I think he would admit he got a little heavy in those previous places, and we’ve trimmed him down. It starts with approach – he’s VERY coachable, and I think he’s got a lot of his confidence back, and it’s about getting him comfortable in a system of play that I think fits him better.

Fox admitted that prior seasons have not been the easiest to watch. “We’ve not had an athletic front line, and that’s hard to overcome in a game with 60+ possessions. Lars, I think, finally got comfortable last year and everyone was excited about how he finished last year. But, Sam Alajiki played really well last season and for his national team (Ireland) this summer. He’s got a strong and athletic body, and you combine him with Grant and we have length and a physicality in the paint that, quite honestly, we’ve not had (during my tenure).”

Fox noted that the program has been rebuilding, itself a hurdle, and also had to work through the challenges of the pandemic. He feels he’s now got a roster that can play aggressively, and hopes they can learn to do so while playing mistake-free basketball. He’s excited to go to practice because he “has been getting a ton of cooperation, and don’t have to fight them every day.”

The Golden Bears open the 2022-23 season with non-conference action against UC Davis, putting their 33-0 all-time record against the Aggies on the line at Haas Pavilion November 7.

Other stories:

Bears’ Weekly Pac-12 Pairings Unveiled

Discussion from...

Mark Fox, Bears Look For Big Step Forward

21,907 Views | 108 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by SFCityBear
HearstMining
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TheFiatLux said:

Every time I see that "Invest and Attack" I just cringe. It's so mind numbingly vapid.
Sounds like an ad for Charles Schwab.
PtownBear1
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calumnus said:

At halftime of today's game Knowlton talked about "the excitement of Cal basketball under Mark Fox." To be fair, he also talked about the "excitement" of the game and our "explosive offense" so maybe he is as being sarcastic.


More likely he was confused which color jerseys were Cal
SFCityBear
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calumnus said:

At halftime of today's game Knowlton talked about "the excitement of Cal basketball under Mark Fox." To be fair, he also talked about the "excitement" of the game and our "explosive offense" so maybe he is as being sarcastic.
I don't think Knowlton would say something sarcastic about Cal teams or Cal coaches in public. Dishonest maybe, but not sarcastic. He is like a politician, and he is paid to pump, pump all things Cal.
SFCityBear
calumnus
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SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

At halftime of today's game Knowlton talked about "the excitement of Cal basketball under Mark Fox." To be fair, he also talked about the "excitement" of the game and our "explosive offense" so maybe he is as being sarcastic.
I don't think Knowlton would say something sarcastic about Cal teams or Cal coaches in public. Dishonest maybe, but not sarcastic. He is like a politician, and he is paid to pump, pump all things Cal.


Agree it was not sarcasm, but talking about our "explosive offense" when we had 3 points at the half is either Orwellian level politician with the Big Lie or just clueless, a guy who isn't even watching the game. Cal grads are smart. If you want to pump Cal at the half say something like "Cal's great defense has kept us in this, looking forward to our offense getting on track in the second half."
calumnus
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TheFiatLux said:

Every time I see that "Invest and Attack" I just cringe. It's so mind numbingly vapid.

Agreed.

It is word salad, verbs pulled out of a dictionary at random. Or maybe those refrigerator magnets?

Wonder who came up with that? How much do they get paid?
Big C
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calumnus said:

TheFiatLux said:

Every time I see that "Invest and Attack" I just cringe. It's so mind numbingly vapid.

Agreed.

It is word salad, verbs pulled out of a dictionary at random. Or maybe those refrigerator magnets?

Wonder who came up with that? How much do they get paid?

No possible way somebody got paid to come up with "Invest and Attack". Impossible. Didn't happen.


(I wrote the above, all the while doubting its veracity.)
eastcoastcal
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Guys, given the COVID year, it's totally understandable that our marketing people could only come up with that slogan. We extended them all to lifetime contracts given the COVID situation, and are pleased with the trajectory of the basketball marketing program.
HearstMining
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A big step forward? How about the infamous 360 degree turnaround?
PtownBear1
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Don't the coaches come up with their slogans?
HoopDreams
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PtownBear1 said:

Don't the coaches come up with their slogans?
My assumption based on how these typically work in business is the slogan was created by a marketing firm, approved by Cal, and licensed to Cal to use for a certain number of years

If the above is true, the remaining term of the license is the key (unless cal decides to extend the license after negotiating a low cost to save money)

I think the same issue exists for U C Berkeley
bluehenbear
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PtownBear1 said:

Don't the coaches come up with their slogans?
The search firm offered a package deal for the coach and his slogan.
calumnus
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PtownBear1 said:

Don't the coaches come up with their slogans?


If so, it was probably a mix up. That was supposed to be his instruction to his money manager and his lawyer.
stu
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HoopDreams said:

PtownBear1 said:

Don't the coaches come up with their slogans?
My assumption based on how these typically work in business is the slogan was created by a marketing firm, approved by Cal, and licensed to Cal to use for a certain number of years

If the above is true, the remaining term of the license is the key (unless cal decides to extend the license after negotiating a low cost to save money)

I think the same issue exists for U C Berkeley
I think the license got a COVID-19 extension.
SFCityBear
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eastcoastcal said:

I am excited to see how fast we play. I think this year will be a true test of whether the issue truly was depth/talent or if Fox just is unimaginative and boring with his x's and o's. If we play slow as usual, it must be the latter.
I am excited to see how well we play, not how fast we play. I've seen teams who play fast and are very good teams and I've seen teams who play fast, and but are not very good at all.

I think a coach is usually paid more by how well his teams play, their won-loss record, and less by how exciting they look when they play. For many years, fans have found the game more fun to watch when a lot of points are scored, and this requires faster play. It is the reason the NBA got rid of a lot of personal fouls and installed a shot clock. It is the reason that basketball now permits the offensive player to charge, and more lines and semi-circles are painted on the floor.

Here is my rule number one in basketball strategy: You shouldn't play fast, unless you have the horses. Playing fast with slow players, or mistake-prone players does not cut it. Playing faster than you are capable of playing makes for mistakes. Not just in basketball, but doing anything in life. I watched in horror in early season games when great athletic specimens like Jaylen Brown and some of his teammates got stripped of the ball in traffic while trying to run a fast break. The other thing that can happen when you play too fast, is injury, and basketball players (and baseball and football players as well) are getting injured far more often than ever before. When I was growing up, one of the fastest and greatest basketball players in the fast break was Hondo, John Havlicek, of the Celtics, who passed up signing with the Cleveland Browns to play in the NBA instead. He said he usually played at 85%. The mindset of most young players today is to play at 110-120%. And they figure, I guess, that they can take a hard hit in the head and walk away from it unscathed. Otherwise, why would they play so recklessly? They try to run faster than they can, jump higher than they can, hit harder than they can. This overextension is resulting in loads of injuries. How many Cal seasons have our teams been denied success due to injuries to a few key players?

A coach can try and recruit for speed and athleticism, but if he can't land a rotation like that, then he needs to devise another way to play. There are only so many fast, talented recruits out there, and most of them will be snatched up by the basketball factories, and we all know who those schools are. Cuonzo tried a different style, because he had only one fast athlete, Jaylen Brown. He is the only player I've ever seen who could chase down a dribbler from behind and block his shot from behind, without drawing a foul. Refs nearly always call a foul on the player who blocks a shot from behind on the run. Bird and Mathews were of average speed. All of Cal's bigs were slow, maybe even Rabb. KO was perhaps the slowest center I ever saw at Cal. Lars could run him out of the gym in a footrace. Singer was good enough to lead a break, but not good enough to play starter minutes. Cuonzo would have been right if he decided not to be a fast breaking team, because except for Brown, he didn't have the horses, but his mistake was that he tried to force a bunch of talented, smooth players like Bird, Mathews, Rabb, and Wallace to build muscle, bulk up, and either attack the rim or shoot threes, but all at a slower pace than really fast. It was a failure, due to injuries, mostly, but at least it was something novel to try, given that he didn't have the horses to play fast.

Mark Fox will need to watch some scrimmages and see how fast his players can play without many mistakes, and decide if playing fast is the best strategy. Hopefully his players will be talented enough that he can come up with at least a hybrid, where we focus on the half court, but are looking for that chance to run when we see 3 or 4 against 2 or less.


SFCityBear
HearstMining
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Nobody wants to see fast-paced chaos. But Fox's Cal teams apparently don't know how to run a fast break or exploit a numerical advantage at the offensive end. How many times did they have a 3v2 and just stood around waiting?
BC Calfan
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It's been well written on this board about what it takes to play uptempo or run fast breaks more often. One way of simplifying it: you need good passers. Quick outlets from the post and then another quick mid-court pass to the break. We have no good passers on our team that can consistently pull that off. Savvy defenders will play those passing lanes if not done well.

We aren't playing more uptempo this year, we do not have the horses.
stu
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Maybe Askew?
SFCityBear
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BC Calfan said:

It's been well written on this board about what it takes to play uptempo or run fast breaks more often. One way of simplifying it: you need good passers. Quick outlets from the post and then another quick mid-court pass to the break. We have no good passers on our team that can consistently pull that off. Savvy defenders will play those passing lanes if not done well.

We aren't playing more uptempo this year, we do not have the horses.
We haven't seen all these players yet. Askew and Clayton have played a lot of point guard, and they have to have some passing skills. Brown makes one or two passes well enough, and needs to learn some more of them, and have better court awareness. He is sure is fast enough. We have some wings who can run, like Alajiki and Bowser, and Kuany is fast. They all need to learn how to finish better. Then there is Newell and even Okafor, who may be able to get up and down. My concern with the talent would be do we have enough rebounders to get the ball in the first place? Hopefully the new guys will be skilled enough defensively to pick up some steals.
SFCityBear
eastcoastcal
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Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
sluggo
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eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
No shooters. Don't need them.
BC Calfan
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Fine, say Askew and Clayton are better than average passers--as point guards they should be. But, fast breaks start with defensive rebounds and outlets. Is Lars gonna do that? Nope, too mechanical. Kuany? Nope, too hesitant. Are Askew and Clayton the type of guards to rip defensive rebounds and initiate the break? No evidence.

An effective outlet pass is basically a hockey assist; which gets equal credit with NHL stats. Lars & Kuany combined averaged 1 assist a game last year.
calumnus
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HearstMining said:

Nobody wants to see fast-paced chaos. But Fox's Cal teams apparently don't know how to run a fast break or exploit a numerical advantage at the offensive end. How many times did they have a 3v2 and just stood around waiting?



They are instructed not too. We were #330 in tempo by design. You have to TRY to play that slow.
HearstMining
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calumnus said:

HearstMining said:

Nobody wants to see fast-paced chaos. But Fox's Cal teams apparently don't know how to run a fast break or exploit a numerical advantage at the offensive end. How many times did they have a 3v2 and just stood around waiting?



They are instructed not too. We were #330 in tempo by design. You have to TRY to play that slow.
Oh, I know. And I know that you knew. And this is what makes Cal basketball such a joyless, soul-sucking exercise to watch.
HoopDreams
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What I'd like to see is the ball handler take the ball to the rack less often

There are certainly times when thats the best option including:

1. They beat defender so have a good lane to basket

2. They are a physical mis-match

3. They are an elite finisher

4. The defender is in foul trouble

But i think too often there are better options such as:

A. Pass other player

B. Pass to other player at a more optimal time or angle (ie. Make a better pass)

C. Pull up for a short jumper

AND

D. Outlet pass to a player set behind the 3 point line

Of course there are times when the best decision is to wait and set up half court offense

I almost never see D for this Cal team
SFCityBear
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BC Calfan said:

Fine, say Askew and Clayton are better than average passers--as point guards they should be. But, fast breaks start with defensive rebounds and outlets. Is Lars gonna do that? Nope, too mechanical. Kuany? Nope, too hesitant. Are Askew and Clayton the type of guards to rip defensive rebounds and initiate the break? No evidence.

An effective outlet pass is basically a hockey assist; which gets equal credit with NHL stats. Lars & Kuany combined averaged 1 assist a game last year.
You make my point. Rebounding looks like the biggest question mark.

An outlet pass almost never is awarded an assist.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.
SFCityBear
stu
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I'm always looking forward to seeing the team. It's been a long, dry summer.
HoopDreams
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good post SF
Big C
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SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.


I actually think this team has a lot of potential, defensively. Lots of length and decent athleticism at a lot of the positions. Guys like Kuany and Bowser. Lars has the length but not the athleticism, but by now, he's experienced. I'm moderately excited to see what they will do.
HoopDreams
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Big C said:

SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.


I actually think this team has a lot of potential, defensively. Lots of length and decent athleticism at a lot of the positions. Guys like Kuany and Bowser. Lars has the length but not the athleticism, but by now, he's experienced. I'm moderately excited to see what they will do.
I saw a twitter video where Lars dunked with authority ... looks like he got stronger during the offseason
4thGenCal
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SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.

Its early but the starting 5 based on just today would be: Askew at pt, Clayton at the 2, KK at the 3, Sam or Newell at the 4 (Newell has been the biggest surprise to the coaches - they were high on him to help this season, but make an impact the next season) Lars at the 5. And Joel is in a neck and neck battle for the pt. So 7 guys with the edge, but Roberson, Bowser, ND and Obinna all competing hard in practice. Coaches are excited because the players are really competing hard in practice and the improved quality of depth means the team will play with more "force". Meaning defensive pressure will be better, transition opportunities will be sought and overall intensity will be better. Hyder back improving but still away from full tilt and Jalen is progressing well on his PT, with a target to return early January (but just a target). ND is the clear best athlete with a huge upside, but extremely raw(offensive moves and learning the game at this level). The slow pace the last several years was by design to give the team a chance to win in last 5 minutes of the games. Simply put, having a 6' 7" 265 lb center in the Pac12 is a disadvantage despite the good offensive footwork. That coupled with limited athletes, and quality depth restricted the flexibility of the staff to play more of an uptempo. Will also add that from my observation the team is tight/supportive of each other and believes in the staff. There is trust and not just cya. HC's often take on the role of a "father figure' and that requires that there is straight talk, support and belief in the teaching of skills and development of the team. I along with the majority of the posters have a legitimate "show me" feeling, but Fox and staff are building (albeit long time in coming) an improved team with quality depth and the players have bought in to their teaching and overall development. So the point is, be objective, and let's see where the team is come January. Let's not count the patient as comatose, without revival as a possibility. Just my thoughts based on some direct interaction. Go Bears and hoping the guys can have a successful season, as there has been a long dry spell which has greatly weighed on the upperclassmen. Would be great for them to taste some success given the tremendous sacrifices made by the players.
eastcoastcal
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4thGenCal said:

SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.

Its early but the starting 5 based on just today would be: Askew at pt, Clayton at the 2, KK at the 3, Sam or Newell at the 4 (Newell has been the biggest surprise to the coaches - they were high on him to help this season, but make an impact the next season) Lars at the 5. And Joel is in a neck and neck battle for the pt. So 7 guys with the edge, but Roberson, Bowser, ND and Obinna all competing hard in practice. Coaches are excited because the players are really competing hard in practice and the improved quality of depth means the team will play with more "force". Meaning defensive pressure will be better, transition opportunities will be sought and overall intensity will be better. Hyder back improving but still away from full tilt and Jalen is progressing well on his PT, with a target to return early January (but just a target). ND is the clear best athlete with a huge upside, but extremely raw(offensive moves and learning the game at this level). The slow pace the last several years was by design to give the team a chance to win in last 5 minutes of the games. Simply put, having a 6' 7" 265 lb center in the Pac12 is a disadvantage despite the good offensive footwork. That coupled with limited athletes, and quality depth restricted the flexibility of the staff to play more of an uptempo. Will also add that from my observation the team is tight/supportive of each other and believes in the staff. There is trust and not just cya. HC's often take on the role of a "father figure' and that requires that there is straight talk, support and belief in the teaching of skills and development of the team. I along with the majority of the posters have a legitimate "show me" feeling, but Fox and staff are building (albeit long time in coming) an improved team with quality depth and the players have bought in to their teaching and overall development. So the point is, be objective, and let's see where the team is come January. Let's not count the patient as comatose, without revival as a possibility. Just my thoughts based on some direct interaction. Go Bears and hoping the guys can have a successful season, as there has been a long dry spell which has greatly weighed on the upperclassmen. Would be great for them to taste some success given the tremendous sacrifices made by the players.
Very good to hear and gives me hope for the season. Would love to see us maybe compete for an NIT bid? Or is that a little too far of a stretch goal.
calumnus
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4thGenCal said:

SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.

Its early but the starting 5 based on just today would be: Askew at pt, Clayton at the 2, KK at the 3, Sam or Newell at the 4 (Newell has been the biggest surprise to the coaches - they were high on him to help this season, but make an impact the next season) Lars at the 5. And Joel is in a neck and neck battle for the pt. So 7 guys with the edge, but Roberson, Bowser, ND and Obinna all competing hard in practice. Coaches are excited because the players are really competing hard in practice and the improved quality of depth means the team will play with more "force". Meaning defensive pressure will be better, transition opportunities will be sought and overall intensity will be better. Hyder back improving but still away from full tilt and Jalen is progressing well on his PT, with a target to return early January (but just a target). ND is the clear best athlete with a huge upside, but extremely raw(offensive moves and learning the game at this level). The slow pace the last several years was by design to give the team a chance to win in last 5 minutes of the games. Simply put, having a 6' 7" 265 lb center in the Pac12 is a disadvantage despite the good offensive footwork. That coupled with limited athletes, and quality depth restricted the flexibility of the staff to play more of an uptempo. Will also add that from my observation the team is tight/supportive of each other and believes in the staff. There is trust and not just cya. HC's often take on the role of a "father figure' and that requires that there is straight talk, support and belief in the teaching of skills and development of the team. I along with the majority of the posters have a legitimate "show me" feeling, but Fox and staff are building (albeit long time in coming) an improved team with quality depth and the players have bought in to their teaching and overall development. So the point is, be objective, and let's see where the team is come January. Let's not count the patient as comatose, without revival as a possibility. Just my thoughts based on some direct interaction. Go Bears and hoping the guys can have a successful season, as there has been a long dry spell which has greatly weighed on the upperclassmen. Would be great for them to taste some success given the tremendous sacrifices made by the players.


Appreciate the information. Don't appreciate your characterization of Andre Kelly. He was our best player and will be missed.
sluggo
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4thGenCal said:

SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.

Its early but the starting 5 based on just today would be: Askew at pt, Clayton at the 2, KK at the 3, Sam or Newell at the 4 (Newell has been the biggest surprise to the coaches - they were high on him to help this season, but make an impact the next season) Lars at the 5. And Joel is in a neck and neck battle for the pt. So 7 guys with the edge, but Roberson, Bowser, ND and Obinna all competing hard in practice. Coaches are excited because the players are really competing hard in practice and the improved quality of depth means the team will play with more "force". Meaning defensive pressure will be better, transition opportunities will be sought and overall intensity will be better. Hyder back improving but still away from full tilt and Jalen is progressing well on his PT, with a target to return early January (but just a target). ND is the clear best athlete with a huge upside, but extremely raw(offensive moves and learning the game at this level). The slow pace the last several years was by design to give the team a chance to win in last 5 minutes of the games. Simply put, having a 6' 7" 265 lb center in the Pac12 is a disadvantage despite the good offensive footwork. That coupled with limited athletes, and quality depth restricted the flexibility of the staff to play more of an uptempo. Will also add that from my observation the team is tight/supportive of each other and believes in the staff. There is trust and not just cya. HC's often take on the role of a "father figure' and that requires that there is straight talk, support and belief in the teaching of skills and development of the team. I along with the majority of the posters have a legitimate "show me" feeling, but Fox and staff are building (albeit long time in coming) an improved team with quality depth and the players have bought in to their teaching and overall development. So the point is, be objective, and let's see where the team is come January. Let's not count the patient as comatose, without revival as a possibility. Just my thoughts based on some direct interaction. Go Bears and hoping the guys can have a successful season, as there has been a long dry spell which has greatly weighed on the upperclassmen. Would be great for them to taste some success given the tremendous sacrifices made by the players.
Huh. So he is exactly the player I said he was. It turns out you can watch video and make inferences about players. I am not sure about upside because it is usually too late to develop basic skills at the college level.

I think the coaches are backward on KK, who should be a 4. The less the ball is in his hands the better. Alajiki is much more confident with the ball in his hands as he showed this summer. Interested to see where Newell fits.

I guess they will both play, but Brown is a much better athlete than Askew, so if the team is going to be based on defensive pressure, it is surprising to start someone without that skill.
4thGenCal
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calumnus said:

4thGenCal said:

SFCityBear said:

eastcoastcal said:

Where do we stand with respect to shooting ability?
Mostly unknown, except we can guess. We have two three point shooters for sure. Alajiki, made 3's at a phenomenal 50%, but the sample is too small to already call him a great shooter. Celestine may be a little better than average, but likely won't be playing. Most of the others are unknown. Askew scored a bunch in high school, but has had to play point in two very tough conferences, and took few shots, probably focusing on point guard responsibilities. Clayton's stats in lesser leagues, show him to be a scorer, not a long range shooter. He has a good 2pt percentage, and a good FT percentage, leading me to believe he can shoot inside the 3pt line. I prefer scorers to shooters anyway. Foreman proved to be able to make a 3pt shot, but against bigger and quicker defenders of a P5 conference, he had trouble getting good shots off. Shepherd came from a lesser conference and was able to shoot and score in the PAC12. Betley came with good numbers from a lesser conference, and he shot very well through the first half of the season and then got exhausted in PAC12 season. South was another player from a small conference who shot well in the first half of the season at Cal, and lost it in PAC12 play.

Newell is very unknown, except for the reports from Europe that he scored well, and can make some threes. That is 2 games against weak opponents, probably. Up front, Lars has developed some shots he can make, but I'm still waiting for Kuany to show some ability to get shots. He shoots OK, but at such a low volume. Okafor is unknown. Bowser is unknown. Hyder can't shoot a lick, but people say some of that might be due to nagging injury. I doubt Roberson can shoot, but all it takes for some kids is one good summer with a good coach to develop a shot or two. I probably missed someone.

My bigger concern is our defense. Other than Brown, Anyanwu, and Roberson, do we have any players who can get after it, get up in an opponent's face, stick to him like glue, beat him to his favorite spots, shut him down? Can we protect the rim? Can we get some steals? And my biggest concern is rebounds, which is what you need first to win, whether you play fast or slow.

With all that negativity and uncertainty, I like the little I do hear, and I'm looking forward to seeing the team this season.

Its early but the starting 5 based on just today would be: Askew at pt, Clayton at the 2, KK at the 3, Sam or Newell at the 4 (Newell has been the biggest surprise to the coaches - they were high on him to help this season, but make an impact the next season) Lars at the 5. And Joel is in a neck and neck battle for the pt. So 7 guys with the edge, but Roberson, Bowser, ND and Obinna all competing hard in practice. Coaches are excited because the players are really competing hard in practice and the improved quality of depth means the team will play with more "force". Meaning defensive pressure will be better, transition opportunities will be sought and overall intensity will be better. Hyder back improving but still away from full tilt and Jalen is progressing well on his PT, with a target to return early January (but just a target). ND is the clear best athlete with a huge upside, but extremely raw(offensive moves and learning the game at this level). The slow pace the last several years was by design to give the team a chance to win in last 5 minutes of the games. Simply put, having a 6' 7" 265 lb center in the Pac12 is a disadvantage despite the good offensive footwork. That coupled with limited athletes, and quality depth restricted the flexibility of the staff to play more of an uptempo. Will also add that from my observation the team is tight/supportive of each other and believes in the staff. There is trust and not just cya. HC's often take on the role of a "father figure' and that requires that there is straight talk, support and belief in the teaching of skills and development of the team. I along with the majority of the posters have a legitimate "show me" feeling, but Fox and staff are building (albeit long time in coming) an improved team with quality depth and the players have bought in to their teaching and overall development. So the point is, be objective, and let's see where the team is come January. Let's not count the patient as comatose, without revival as a possibility. Just my thoughts based on some direct interaction. Go Bears and hoping the guys can have a successful season, as there has been a long dry spell which has greatly weighed on the upperclassmen. Would be great for them to taste some success given the tremendous sacrifices made by the players.


Appreciate the information. Don't appreciate your characterization of Andre Kelly. He was our best player and will be missed.
You are welcome, but correction, the characterization of AK was not from me (sentiment w/in the program). I personally highly liked him and was available to him during his research/decision of other programs. I am pulling for him and Joe P at UCSB is extremely happy to have him.
 
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