Worse Than Wyking

7,485 Views | 73 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by calumnus
Cal8285
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calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.
calumnus
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oskidunker said:

Dick Kutchen was a NotreDame assistant. We thought we were getting God on Earth when he came. What we got was a-less animated than jim Padgett with a worse record. We need to find someone who has turned crap in to Gold.


That is why I was touting Kyle Smith and Todd Golden, though Gerlufsen seems to be keeping it going at USF.

Gates would be a great get.
calumnus
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Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
GMP
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VolunteerReverie said:

Mark Fox used to be the coach at Georgia from 2009 until 2018. While he had some good victories with the Bulldogs, his teams were largely mediocre.

I hate to say it, but I don't see him lasting the season the rate the Bears are going.

Don't hate to say it. Say it with your whole chest and make it come true.
HKBear97!
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calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.
calumnus
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HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
KoreAmBear
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calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?
bearister
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KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

They say Luke Askew had a formidable cross over and a deadly midrange jumper.




Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
calumnus
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KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?


I would go with:
PG Paris Austin
SG Matt Bradley
SF Justice Sueing
PF Andre Kelly
C Connor Vanover

HoopDreams
How long do you want to ignore this user?
askew by a big margin

much better player

however coleman was entertaining with his wild 1 on 4 attacks on the basket, and pretzel shots for scores

KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?
Big C
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KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

Great question, but one which no one should ever have to answer.
BeachedBear
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udaman1 said:

What about Kurtis Townsend? He was here with Bozeman, even interviewed after Bozeman left. He's been at Kansas for 15 years with Self. getting $500K right now. $1.3M gets him here. 5 year deal. Turns around the program.

HE is one of the best shooters I have ever seen (Curry-esque). I'm pretty sure he's making more than just the $500K listed at Kansas.
Cal8285
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calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.
gwashburn14
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Dennis Gates is not coming back to coach Cal. He felt deceived twice by the AD and university during both of his interviews, felt like they were going to hire Wyking and Fox respectively before he even walked into the interview. Felt like he was used. He ain't coming back.
Big C
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This has got to be one of the most depressing questions ever posed on Bear Insider. Basically, who is our crappiest coach of all time, our current crappy coach, or his crappy predecessor? Goodness gracious, what a downer, to debate this...
calumnus
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Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.


I only responded to someone arguing Jones was worse than Fox because losing to Chaminade in the Maui Classic is the worst loss possible. You do not need to argue Monty was better than Jones, no one said otherwise.

That people are arguing that Jones, in one of the first few games of his first disastrous season as a head coach was worse than Mark Fox, now in his 18th year as a head coach and 4th at Cal, is not convincing me Fox has more upside and I was one of the people on this board arguing for us to move on from Jones from the previous year and was critical when Knowlton indicated he was bringing Jones back.

However, when Knowlton named Fox I actually said I would have preferred we save the money on the Jones buyout over hiring Fox. At least with Jones there was a chance, however slim, that he would continue to learn and improve as a head coach. We had some good but very young talent and did finish that second season winning our last three conference games when he had a better idea of who should be playing.

Again, I wanted to move on from Jones rather than paying him to hopefully learn on the job. But that would have been better than spending $millions to bring in Fox and take away any hope, however how slim.

Crazy that it is a debate. No to both. Only I knew I never wanted Mark Fox as our coach back when Monty was our coach and blew him out and he petulance was on full display, back when I only knew Wyking Jones as an ex NBA player and actor in movies like "The Wood."


Bobodeluxe
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calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.


I only responded to someone arguing Jones was worse than Fox because losing to Chaminade in the Maui Classic is the worst loss possible. You do not need to argue Monty was better than Jones, no one said otherwise.

That people are arguing that Jones, in one of the first few games of his first disastrous season as a head coach was worse than Mark Fox, now in his 18th year as a head coach and 4th at Cal, is not convincing me Fox has more upside and I was one of the people on this board arguing for us to move on from Jones from the previous year and was critical when Knowlton indicated he was bringing Jones back.

However, when Knowlton named Fox I actually said I would have preferred we save the money on the Jones buyout over hiring Fox. At least with Jones there was a chance, however slim, that he would continue to learn and improve as a head coach. We had some good but very young talent and did finish that second season winning our last three conference games when he had a better idea of who should be playing.

Again, I wanted to move on from Jones rather than paying him to hopefully learn on the job. But that would have been better than spending $millions to bring in Fox and take away any hope, however how slim.

Crazy that it is a debate. No to both. Only I knew I never wanted Mark Fox as our coach back when Monty was our coach and blew him out and he petulance was on full display, back when I only knew Wyking Jones as an ex NBA player and actor in movies like "The Wood."



No NBA.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bobodeluxe said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.


I only responded to someone arguing Jones was worse than Fox because losing to Chaminade in the Maui Classic is the worst loss possible. You do not need to argue Monty was better than Jones, no one said otherwise.

That people are arguing that Jones, in one of the first few games of his first disastrous season as a head coach was worse than Mark Fox, now in his 18th year as a head coach and 4th at Cal, is not convincing me Fox has more upside and I was one of the people on this board arguing for us to move on from Jones from the previous year and was critical when Knowlton indicated he was bringing Jones back.

However, when Knowlton named Fox I actually said I would have preferred we save the money on the Jones buyout over hiring Fox. At least with Jones there was a chance, however slim, that he would continue to learn and improve as a head coach. We had some good but very young talent and did finish that second season winning our last three conference games when he had a better idea of who should be playing.

Again, I wanted to move on from Jones rather than paying him to hopefully learn on the job. But that would have been better than spending $millions to bring in Fox and take away any hope, however how slim.

Crazy that it is a debate. No to both. Only I knew I never wanted Mark Fox as our coach back when Monty was our coach and blew him out and he petulance was on full display, back when I only knew Wyking Jones as an ex NBA player and actor in movies like "The Wood."



No NBA.


Right. Played professionally overseas before coaching and acting. Martin presumably brought him in for recruiting LA. With a knowledgeable Xs and Os assistant… who knows? My BIG issue with him was his first panicky class including guys ge should not have offered and then running those guys off the team, which should NEVER happen. If people want to say Fox is better than him for THAT, I would agree, though it seems like Fox has run some guys off too, though with less publicity and more cover.

The other big issue, which is more on Williams, is when taking a chance on a first time head coach like Jones (or Holmoe or Wilcox) we should have a contract that is highly incentive laden and very favorable to Cal.
Cal8285
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calumnus said:

Bobodeluxe said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.


I only responded to someone arguing Jones was worse than Fox because losing to Chaminade in the Maui Classic is the worst loss possible. You do not need to argue Monty was better than Jones, no one said otherwise.

That people are arguing that Jones, in one of the first few games of his first disastrous season as a head coach was worse than Mark Fox, now in his 18th year as a head coach and 4th at Cal, is not convincing me Fox has more upside and I was one of the people on this board arguing for us to move on from Jones from the previous year and was critical when Knowlton indicated he was bringing Jones back.

However, when Knowlton named Fox I actually said I would have preferred we save the money on the Jones buyout over hiring Fox. At least with Jones there was a chance, however slim, that he would continue to learn and improve as a head coach. We had some good but very young talent and did finish that second season winning our last three conference games when he had a better idea of who should be playing.

Again, I wanted to move on from Jones rather than paying him to hopefully learn on the job. But that would have been better than spending $millions to bring in Fox and take away any hope, however how slim.

Crazy that it is a debate. No to both. Only I knew I never wanted Mark Fox as our coach back when Monty was our coach and blew him out and he petulance was on full display, back when I only knew Wyking Jones as an ex NBA player and actor in movies like "The Wood."



No NBA.


Right. Played professionally overseas before coaching and acting. Martin presumably brought him in for recruiting LA. With a knowledgeable Xs and Os assistant… who knows? My BIG issue with him was his first panicky class including guys ge should not have offered and then running those guys off the team, which should NEVER happen. If people want to say Fox is better than him for THAT, I would agree, though it seems like Fox has run some guys off too, though with less publicity and more cover.

The other big issue, which is more on Williams, is when taking a chance on a first time head coach like Jones (or Holmoe or Wilcox) we should have a contract that is highly incentive laden and very favorable to Cal.
It doesn't really matter which of 2 unacceptable coaches were worse, both were unacceptable.

I had no hope for Jones getting better. The Bears only really played 31 minutes of good basketball in those last 3 wins, the first 31 against UW. They were bad against an equally bad WSU team, home court probably made the difference in the win. Stanford sucked in the final game. 31 quality minutes vs UW wasn't enough to give me hope, more a sign that we had talent and Jones had no clue.

I can't say I'd have rather kept Jones than hire Fox, there wasn't a choice between Jones or Fox. Jones needed to go AND Knowlton needed to hire someone better than Fox. I'd rather have an AD who knows better than to hire Fox.

And I posted on various occasions that the Jones contract Williams gave was idiotic. No one was offering Jones a HC job but Cal. Give him a VERY small buy out, he's not turning it down. But no.

Jones and Fox both totally unacceptable, but at this rate Fox will win for the worst totally unacceptable coach.
calumnus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Bobodeluxe said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
You don't need to try to minimize how bad Jones was to make Fox look worse. The fact that Jones was incredibly bad yet Fox can STILL steal the title from Jones of worst Cal coach ever shows just how bad Fox is.

No game by itself can show that any coach is worse than another. But if we're going to focus on the one Chaminade game, it was a MUCH worse loss than Monty's loss. Losing to Chaminade by itself doesn't make Jones a bad coach. Monty and Rick Barnes aren't bad coaches, and they lost to Chaminade. Losing in the MANNER the Bears did helps demonstrate that Jones was a really bad coach.

Before the Cal-Chaminade game, the worst power conference loss to the Silverswords was the Texas 86-73 loss in 2012, Rick Barnes the Texas coach at the time. With just over two minutes left, Texas was down 9, and desperation/fouling made it a 13 point game. With just over two minutes left in 2017, Cal was down THIRTY (30!!) and garbage time made it a 24 point game. If you watched that game, and watched this season, you'd know 2017 Chaminade was a far worse performance than any of the Cal losses so far this season.

Sorry, but saying, "Yeah, others have lost to Chaminade" doesn't mean that the loss by Cal in 2017 was anything but, far and away, the worst power conference team loss to Chaminade EVER, and doesn't mean Jones wasn't a horrible coach.

Again, one game doesn't mean that much, you need to look at overall resume. Add the 27 point loss to Central Arkansas and the 25 point loss to Portland St. that season, plus 2-16 in conference, and Jones was a really bad coach in 2017-18. He did have the inexplicable 1 point win against SD St. 3 days after the Central Arkansas debacle, and had the 3 point win at Stanford in early January, but those positives are part of what show how horrible Jones was -- the team had enough talent to beat a pretty decent SD St. team in San Diego, how can they play so badly through most of the rest of the season?

The overall resume for 2022-23 is almost certainly going to make Fox the worst Cal coach in history, yes worse than Jones, even if that is largely (but not completely) a result of the talent level. Even if they weren't blow out losses, losing to ALL FOUR of UC Davis, UCSD, Southern, and Texas St. is downright horrible. Going 0-20 or 2-18 or whatever we're likely to go in conference is downright horrible. The talent level is on Fox, period, but even with this talent level, a Monty would likely be at least 3-2 at this point.

Jones was a truly dreadful coach, and I'd hate to see how things would have looked if he had made it to season 4 at Cal, perhaps worse than this season will be. The fact that Fox got the chance to make it to season 4 isn't really his fault, he did poorly enough in seasons 2 and 3 to be fired (of course, he did poorly enough at Georgia not to be hired at Cal), but here he is, and barring a turnaround that no one around here can foresee, he will win the title of worst Cal MBB HC EVER, based on the entirety of the season, even if he never has a loss as bad as the 2017 losses to Chaminade, Central Arkansas and Portland St.

Knowlton could have kept the title in Jones' hands by firing Fox after last season, but Fox is the kind of guy Knowlton gets along with, so perhaps he wanted Fox to get a chance at the title.


I only responded to someone arguing Jones was worse than Fox because losing to Chaminade in the Maui Classic is the worst loss possible. You do not need to argue Monty was better than Jones, no one said otherwise.

That people are arguing that Jones, in one of the first few games of his first disastrous season as a head coach was worse than Mark Fox, now in his 18th year as a head coach and 4th at Cal, is not convincing me Fox has more upside and I was one of the people on this board arguing for us to move on from Jones from the previous year and was critical when Knowlton indicated he was bringing Jones back.

However, when Knowlton named Fox I actually said I would have preferred we save the money on the Jones buyout over hiring Fox. At least with Jones there was a chance, however slim, that he would continue to learn and improve as a head coach. We had some good but very young talent and did finish that second season winning our last three conference games when he had a better idea of who should be playing.

Again, I wanted to move on from Jones rather than paying him to hopefully learn on the job. But that would have been better than spending $millions to bring in Fox and take away any hope, however how slim.

Crazy that it is a debate. No to both. Only I knew I never wanted Mark Fox as our coach back when Monty was our coach and blew him out and he petulance was on full display, back when I only knew Wyking Jones as an ex NBA player and actor in movies like "The Wood."



No NBA.


Right. Played professionally overseas before coaching and acting. Martin presumably brought him in for recruiting LA. With a knowledgeable Xs and Os assistant… who knows? My BIG issue with him was his first panicky class including guys ge should not have offered and then running those guys off the team, which should NEVER happen. If people want to say Fox is better than him for THAT, I would agree, though it seems like Fox has run some guys off too, though with less publicity and more cover.

The other big issue, which is more on Williams, is when taking a chance on a first time head coach like Jones (or Holmoe or Wilcox) we should have a contract that is highly incentive laden and very favorable to Cal.
It doesn't really matter which of 2 unacceptable coaches were worse, both were unacceptable.

I had no hope for Jones getting better. The Bears only really played 31 minutes of good basketball in those last 3 wins, the first 31 against UW. They were bad against an equally bad WSU team, home court probably made the difference in the win. Stanford sucked in the final game. 31 quality minutes vs UW wasn't enough to give me hope, more a sign that we had talent and Jones had no clue.

I can't say I'd have rather kept Jones than hire Fox, there wasn't a choice between Jones or Fox. Jones needed to go AND Knowlton needed to hire someone better than Fox. I'd rather have an AD who knows better than to hire Fox.

And I posted on various occasions that the Jones contract Williams gave was idiotic. No one was offering Jones a HC job but Cal. Give him a VERY small buy out, he's not turning it down. But no.

Jones and Fox both totally unacceptable, but at this rate Fox will win for the worst totally unacceptable coach.



Yes, the best thing about Jones is we cut him after only two years and he left behind a good roster that might have been retained with the right coach.

If you were a coach, would you rather have followed Martin or Jones? Who left Cal in better shape?

4 years of Fox with extensions and a roster that has gotten weaker every year….. Fox definitely will not leave with the Cal program in a better position for the next coach than he found it. We could hire the best coach on the planet and it would still take a few years to turn this around now.
bluesaxe
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HoopDreams said:

better that players show their fire than just check out mentally

that hasn't happened yet as demonstrated by their late runs in second halves

if later in the season players just mail it home in the second half we will know fox has lost the players

in any respect, i think the players are already playing for each other





BC Calfan said:

Like Wyking, his disastrous reign involved an altercation and dismissal of an assistant coach (Theo).

I fear we are close to a bad altercation with this team. I noticed poor body language and frustration at the K-State game. SFCity noticed it at the Southern game. Last night Askew got into it with Fox and Lars at different moments. Kuany, the most mild-mannered and sweet kid on the team got a tech.

Fox has lost this team--program really. Fire him for the player's sake.



Maybe it's that the players have some pride and not that Fox hasn't lost them.
annarborbear
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Knowlton: " I think our GPA is still above passing, and I have great conversations with our coach. I can really relate. How about another extension?'

Carol: "Since there are more important things than winning, fans and revenue, request granted."
Econ141
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annarborbear said:

Knowlton: " I think our GPA is still above passing, and I have great conversations with our coach. I can really relate. How about another extension?'

Carol: "Since there are more important things than winning, fans and revenue, request granted."


Knowlton: "Thanks Carol. Oh by the way, looks like our Lacrosse team has been hazing the freshmen causing several near death experiences. Don't worry though, I will launch a year long investigation into it. I only found out about it 3 months ago myself."

Carol: "Thanks Jim. Hey while you're at it, give yourself an extension too. I have to knit my great grand child a sock."
SFCityBear
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HoopDreams said:

askew by a big margin

much better player

however coleman was entertaining with his wild 1 on 4 attacks on the basket, and pretzel shots for scores

KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

I'd take Askew as well. More skills, plays more under control, not a loose cannon. Plus, Coleman is done, and Askew still has a few years to learn to play the game better. I like your description "pretzel shot." Very apt. Unless Askew has some academic interest in Cal, I expect he declares for the portal.
SFCityBear
bearister
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Econ141 said:

annarborbear said:

Knowlton: " I think our GPA is still above passing, and I have great conversations with our coach. I can really relate. How about another extension?'

Carol: "Since there are more important things than winning, fans and revenue, request granted."


Knowlton: "Thanks Carol. Oh by the way, looks like our Lacrosse team has been hazing the freshmen causing several near death experiences. Don't worry though, I will launch a year long investigation into it. I only found out about it 3 months ago myself."

Carol: "Thanks Jim. Hey while you're at it, give yourself an extension too. I have to knit my great grand child a sock."


Knowlton: "Kids that can't tie their shoe in football, basketball and baseball* and that had to find a sport so they can earn a varsity letter have a lot of pent up hostility from getting cut since grammar school."

*Jim Brown being the exception. All American in football and lacrosse at Syracuse.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
upsetof86
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bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


Lmao
OldenBear
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Econ141 said:



I say we keep him and see how many games he loses, then fire him after his first win.


thanks for your input, Jim Knowlton
bearister
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upsetof86 said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


Lmao


Now he only needs 10 more in a row more to Shatter the Shame Record.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
calumnus
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SFCityBear said:

HoopDreams said:

askew by a big margin

much better player

however coleman was entertaining with his wild 1 on 4 attacks on the basket, and pretzel shots for scores

KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

I'd take Askew as well. More skills, plays more under control, not a loose cannon. Plus, Coleman is done, and Askew still has a few years to learn to play the game better. I like your description "pretzel shot." Very apt. Unless Askew has some academic interest in Cal, I expect he declares for the portal.


Askew has already transfered twice. He got a waiver to play this year without sitting out. If he transfers again he definitely has to sit out a year.

This is Brown's last year. Unless someone else comes in, Askew is Cal's PG next year. I also think he has to realize he might need the degree. Then he could grad transfer.
SFCityBear
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calumnus said:

SFCityBear said:

HoopDreams said:

askew by a big margin

much better player

however coleman was entertaining with his wild 1 on 4 attacks on the basket, and pretzel shots for scores

KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

I'd take Askew as well. More skills, plays more under control, not a loose cannon. Plus, Coleman is done, and Askew still has a few years to learn to play the game better. I like your description "pretzel shot." Very apt. Unless Askew has some academic interest in Cal, I expect he declares for the portal.


Askew has already transfered twice. He got a waiver to play this year without sitting out. If he transfers again he definitely has to sit out a year.

This is Brown's last year. Unless someone else comes in, Askew is Cal's PG next year. I also think he has to realize he might need the degree. Then he could grad transfer.
Doesn't he get an extra year for Covid like so many players have done?

He needs to learn a lot to be a point guard. Has the ball in his hands too much, and seems to be looking all the time to call his own number. He is a good passer, but he usually doesn't pass the ball until near the end of the shot clock, and is double-teamed or otherwise. Much of that I hang on the coach, because Askew's teammates are not moving, cutting to the basket. On the other hand, maybe they are not moving as much as they should be, because even when they do, Askew and others are not passing to them. It is a very predictable team right now, and easy to defend. I liked Fox moving Brown to a point guard, maybe to free up Askew to shoot. The problem with it is Brown after 3 years, can't run an offense very well. Heckuva defender though.
SFCityBear
calumnus
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SFCityBear said:

calumnus said:

SFCityBear said:

HoopDreams said:

askew by a big margin

much better player

however coleman was entertaining with his wild 1 on 4 attacks on the basket, and pretzel shots for scores

KoreAmBear said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

calumnus said:

Cal8285 said:

calumnus said:

HKBear97! said:

GMP said:

bearister said:

BC Calfan said:

Didn't think it was possible.


I think he is in that conversation for sure, but it will take the Jaws of Life* to extract that honor from Wyking.

*He needs 12 more consecutive losses to clip Wyking's school record.


First, Wyking lost to way better teams. All but one of those 16 was in conference play.

Second, Fox is at 8 straight, dating back to next year. So he only needs 9 more to eclipse 16.

Third, recruiting is a major part of coaching and this team is far less talented than that Wyking team. Which doesn't speak well of Wyking's in-game coaching, but says more about Fox's overall terribleness.

Fox is officially the worst coach, IMO, no matter how long this streak goes.


Well, Wyking did lose to Chaminade. Now that was a true low point.



Chaminade has a history of knocking off even highly ranked teams visiting Hawaii.

Cal does not have a history of losing to teams like UC Davis and UC San Diego at home.

This is the worst start, the worst rated team, in 115 years of Cal basketball history.

That Jones team had a lot of young talent and won its last three conference games. He never lost the team. What are the chances this team wins its last three PAC-12 games?

I don't think Chaminade ever beat a power conference team by 24 points. Certainly not in the Maui Classic. That was a truly bad loss by Jones.

Jones teams also got blown out at Haas by Central Arkansas (27 points) and Portland St (25 points). Really grim. For some reason, however, Jones' teams were able to get by San Diego St. two out of two, once in SD, once at Haas.

Jones' teams frequently quit, often played with no heart and effort, especially once they got behind. Jones' last year, he broke the conference winless streak with a win at Haas over a good (25th ranked) UW. Somehow, the Bears played out of their minds for 31 minutes to go ahead by 7, and then both teams played pretty terribly, it was tied with 2 minutes left but UW couldn't hit a shot and Cal made 3 FT's for a 3 point win. Until the UW game, Cal was apparently going to be either 0-18 or 1-17 in conference, depending on conference game #17, the WSU game at Haas. The 0-15 record included a lot of games where the Bears flat out quit. WSU was on its way to finish just ahead of the Bears in 11th place, but did lose Cal's conference game #17 (that was Ernie Kent's last season as well as Jones' last). The Bears then inexplicably won at Stanford, well, inexplicable except that Haase is a terrible coach.

In spite of those last three games, however, I think Jones did lose the team. Campy had already lost the team when the Bears blew out UCLA in 1993 at Pauley, but sometimes, players will play hard even if the coach has lost the team.

It is both good and bad that Fox's teams continue to play with effort. Bad, because while they continue to play with effort after getting behind by double digits, they don't have the talent to beat cream puffs even when they are trying. How can a team that is TRYING lose these cream puff games? Yet they are trying. Which in part shows the talent problem.

The season isn't over yet, but I don't see how it can possibly be anything except the worst season in the 115 years of Cal basketball. The bigger question is whether it will be the worst season of any team in the history of power conference basketball.


Monty and Stanford lost to Chaminade in the 1992 Maui Invitational

Chaminade's 8 Big Wins in the Maui Invitational

1984 Davidson 77-62
1991 Providence 111-108
1992 Stanford 71-63
2003 Villanova 52-49
2007 Princeton 74-70
2010 Oklahoma 68-64
2012 Texas 86-73
2017 Cal 96-72

A lot of better teams and better coaches than that Cal team and Wyking Jones have lost to Chaminade in the Maui Invitational. By itself, it does not make Wyking worse than Fox, or else you would have to say Monty is worse than Fox.
.

We own the largest margin of defeat among those names and we were never in that game after the tip-off. It was ugly. Look, Fox sucks, but those Wyking teams were embarrassing. Couldn't break a press, had no clue how to run an in bound play, absolutely clueless on the court. It was a joke.


Yet they would beat this team.

According to Sagarin, Jones' first team was #207 and his second team was #218, but finished #182 in Recent

This team is #254 in Recent and dropping.

We gave1-4 UC San Diego, the #333 team, their only win.

Jones' teams were poorly coached but have you seen this team? This team is averaging 16.4 turnovers per game making only 20.2 FGs per game. We are #353 out of 363 in made FGs, and 4 of our 5 games were against cupcakes. It only gets WORSE from here.
Don Coleman v. Devin Askew who you got?

I'd take Askew as well. More skills, plays more under control, not a loose cannon. Plus, Coleman is done, and Askew still has a few years to learn to play the game better. I like your description "pretzel shot." Very apt. Unless Askew has some academic interest in Cal, I expect he declares for the portal.


Askew has already transfered twice. He got a waiver to play this year without sitting out. If he transfers again he definitely has to sit out a year.

This is Brown's last year. Unless someone else comes in, Askew is Cal's PG next year. I also think he has to realize he might need the degree. Then he could grad transfer.
Doesn't he get an extra year for Covid like so many players have done?

He needs to learn a lot to be a point guard. Has the ball in his hands too much, and seems to be looking all the time to call his own number. He is a good passer, but he usually doesn't pass the ball until near the end of the shot clock, and is double-teamed or otherwise. Much of that I hang on the coach, because Askew's teammates are not moving, cutting to the basket. On the other hand, maybe they are not moving as much as they should be, because even when they do, Askew and others are not passing to them. It is a very predictable team right now, and easy to defend. I liked Fox moving Brown to a point guard, maybe to free up Askew to shoot. The problem with it is Brown after 3 years, can't run an offense very well. Heckuva defender though.


Yes, he can get a COVID year. I guess Brown can probably too. Brown will have a degree. Maybe he grad transfers or stays and gets a grad certificate.

A lot of things up in the air.

bearister
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"0-7: Cal is the first major conference men's basketball team in the past 40 seasons to start the season 0-7. Louisville will join them unless they beat No. 23 Maryland tomorrow."
-Axios
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oskidunker
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How good is TheUniversity of Spoiled Children?
Go Bears!
calumnus
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oskidunker said:

How good is TheUniversity of Spoiled Children?


Middle of the PAC so far.
dimitrig
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bearister said:

"0-7: Cal is the first major conference men's basketball team in the past 40 seasons to start the season 0-7. Louisville will join them unless they beat No. 23 Maryland tomorrow."
-Axios

For those following along at home:

Maryland 79, Louisville 54

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