TheFiatLux said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Got back from the Butler game. I decided to carry out a small internal assessment during the game, and chose to solely watch Fox on the bench instead of concentrating on the on-court action.

It was really stunning to see his body language, verbal communication, and behavior towards the players/reactions to the on-court plays. He's really bad at this stuff. Every time something negative happened on the court, he'd throw his hands up, groan, look at his coaches, facepalm or start muttering to himself. Every time. No words of encouragement or motivational stuff- just pure negative energy and blame directed at the players. Scowling, eye-rolling, exasperation, you name it.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I am absolutely certain there will be an altercation at some point this season. As Lars got subbed out at one point in the 2nd half, he slammed his hand onto his seat in frustration, the guy next to him (forget who) tried to pat him on the back and Lars slapped his hand away. I watched the bench players throughout the 2nd half, there the body language was stark- really, really bad. And to be clear, I'm not someone who over analyzes or reads too much into body language or verbal comms, but even to me this was a really clear picture. I'm telling you, at some point with the losses piling up, there will be a fight. The players are obviously unhappy playing for Fox. Even the way Fox calls for someone to check-in: he snaps at them. He called for Grant to check in and when Grant didn't immediately move, Fox snapped "Grant lets move it, go".

In any case, my main point is we all know Fox has no recruiting chops nor is he some Xs/Os wizard. But honestly he seems like an awful man to play for (and I'm not some pansy who's never played sports in his life or never had to deal with a tough coach; I've played sports my entire life and am fine dealing with hard-nosed coaches) and we're 110% going to see some blow-up this season.

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

It just infuriates me this guy gets a paycheck from us. I don't care about who hired him, or who hired who hired him... I just care that this load, this complete and total load, has anything to do with Cal.

The students - and man do I feel for you - really should go all in towards directing your ire at him. Make it uncomfortable for him. Make him see every game what a total disaster on and off the court he is. Seriously everyone should. I realize it's a long shot, but make things miserable and humiliating enough for him and maybe, just maybe he'll go to Knowlton and quit.

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This is what happens at schools with winning traditions. They do not tolerate mediocrity let alone complete incompetence. Could you imagine this happening without a midseason firing at USC, Southern Branch, Michigan, Kentucky, North Carolina, etc?

In defense of Dirks, he had the swagger that one has to have to rock Sid Vicious porcupine spikes, lowride specs and a Frida Kahlo unibrow. At least he will always have that, and you really have to respect it. I know that I do.

southseasbear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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BeachedBear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

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YUP! But what really irks me is the lack of addressing the mistake. Everyone fails now and then (or simply picks the wrong person). When that happens, the reasonable thing to do is address the situation and make a change. But in this case:

Year 1. Coming out of the Wyking disaster, we really needed a spark to turn things around. There was hope at the beginning, but by the end of year one, this looked like FOX was not the right person.

Year 2. OK - year 2, lots of hole to dig out of, but he's had a whole year - so we should expect SIGNIFICANT improvement. It didn't happen and this is when a change should have been made. AT A BARE MINIMUM, the AD should have insisted to show him and the fans that he was doing ANYTHING different in order to improve (refruiting, outreach, staff - anything).

Year 3. No changes made. Top player leaves. More of the same and downward trajectory. Well at least there is the three year turnaround excuse. BUT NO! COVID excuse and a mother****ing extension!?!?! Fan base and donors leave in droves and are told "we don't really care enough about MBB".

Year 4. The only thing that could save Fox would be an out of the gate miracle. instead we see a dejected group of players, bad behavior and an 0-7 start against some of the worst teams in MBB. Calls to the AD to act immediately to save the players are ignored.

Worst Hire. Worst Management, Worst Reaction, Worst AD

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In all fairness, I've reconsidered and think Bob Bockrath was the worse hire ever. So Fox has that.

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Bob Bockrath was the worst AD hire (though Knucklehead Knowlton is a close second).
Mark Fox is the worst basketball HC hire.
Tommy Holmoe was the worst football HC hire.

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Bob Bockrath was only at Cal for two years. He left Cal for the Texas Tech job, a five year contract at $125,000 a year. Pushed out?

If someone turns out to be a bad hire and they are fired (or you "let" then leave) after two years, thst is par for the course. What kills you is, when someone turns out to be a bad hire and you extend them 8 years. Though I am not sure how the rest of the 90s could have been worse.

southseasbear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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BeachedBear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

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YUP! But what really irks me is the lack of addressing the mistake. Everyone fails now and then (or simply picks the wrong person). When that happens, the reasonable thing to do is address the situation and make a change. But in this case:

Year 1. Coming out of the Wyking disaster, we really needed a spark to turn things around. There was hope at the beginning, but by the end of year one, this looked like FOX was not the right person.

Year 2. OK - year 2, lots of hole to dig out of, but he's had a whole year - so we should expect SIGNIFICANT improvement. It didn't happen and this is when a change should have been made. AT A BARE MINIMUM, the AD should have insisted to show him and the fans that he was doing ANYTHING different in order to improve (refruiting, outreach, staff - anything).

Year 3. No changes made. Top player leaves. More of the same and downward trajectory. Well at least there is the three year turnaround excuse. BUT NO! COVID excuse and a mother****ing extension!?!?! Fan base and donors leave in droves and are told "we don't really care enough about MBB".

Year 4. The only thing that could save Fox would be an out of the gate miracle. instead we see a dejected group of players, bad behavior and an 0-7 start against some of the worst teams in MBB. Calls to the AD to act immediately to save the players are ignored.

Worst Hire. Worst Management, Worst Reaction, Worst AD

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In all fairness, I've reconsidered and think Bob Bockrath was the worse hire ever. So Fox has that.

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Bob Bockrath was the worst AD hire (though Knucklehead Knowlton is a close second).
Mark Fox is the worst basketball HC hire.
Tommy Holmoe was the worst football HC hire.

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Don't you at least admire the way Fox has scratched and clawed his way to #1? Only a few months ago, most agreed he was clearly #2, behind his predecessor.

calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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BeachedBear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

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YUP! But what really irks me is the lack of addressing the mistake. Everyone fails now and then (or simply picks the wrong person). When that happens, the reasonable thing to do is address the situation and make a change. But in this case:

Year 1. Coming out of the Wyking disaster, we really needed a spark to turn things around. There was hope at the beginning, but by the end of year one, this looked like FOX was not the right person.

Year 2. OK - year 2, lots of hole to dig out of, but he's had a whole year - so we should expect SIGNIFICANT improvement. It didn't happen and this is when a change should have been made. AT A BARE MINIMUM, the AD should have insisted to show him and the fans that he was doing ANYTHING different in order to improve (refruiting, outreach, staff - anything).

Year 3. No changes made. Top player leaves. More of the same and downward trajectory. Well at least there is the three year turnaround excuse. BUT NO! COVID excuse and a mother****ing extension!?!?! Fan base and donors leave in droves and are told "we don't really care enough about MBB".

Year 4. The only thing that could save Fox would be an out of the gate miracle. instead we see a dejected group of players, bad behavior and an 0-7 start against some of the worst teams in MBB. Calls to the AD to act immediately to save the players are ignored.

Worst Hire. Worst Management, Worst Reaction, Worst AD

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In all fairness, I've reconsidered and think Bob Bockrath was the worse hire ever. So Fox has that.

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Bob Bockrath was the worst AD hire (though Knucklehead Knowlton is a close second).
Mark Fox is the worst basketball HC hire.
Tommy Holmoe was the worst football HC hire.

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Bob Bockrath was only at Cal for two years. He left Cal for the Texas Tech job, a five year contract at $125,000 a year. Pushed out?

If someone turns out to be a bad hire and they are fired (or you "let" then leave) after two years, thst is par for the course. What kills you is, when someone turns out to be a bad hire and you extend them 8 years. Though I am not sure how the rest of the 90s could have been worse.

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Only two years but he pushed out Snyder (the best coach we have had since Waldorf retired) and hired Gilbertson (who rivals Holmoe as the worst football HC. He fired Campanelli (I think he should have been disciplined not fired) and hired a not yet ready Boseman.

southseasbear said:

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calumnus said:

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southseasbear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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BeachedBear said:

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TheFiatLux said:

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

---

YUP! But what really irks me is the lack of addressing the mistake. Everyone fails now and then (or simply picks the wrong person). When that happens, the reasonable thing to do is address the situation and make a change. But in this case:

Year 1. Coming out of the Wyking disaster, we really needed a spark to turn things around. There was hope at the beginning, but by the end of year one, this looked like FOX was not the right person.

Year 2. OK - year 2, lots of hole to dig out of, but he's had a whole year - so we should expect SIGNIFICANT improvement. It didn't happen and this is when a change should have been made. AT A BARE MINIMUM, the AD should have insisted to show him and the fans that he was doing ANYTHING different in order to improve (refruiting, outreach, staff - anything).

Year 3. No changes made. Top player leaves. More of the same and downward trajectory. Well at least there is the three year turnaround excuse. BUT NO! COVID excuse and a mother****ing extension!?!?! Fan base and donors leave in droves and are told "we don't really care enough about MBB".

Year 4. The only thing that could save Fox would be an out of the gate miracle. instead we see a dejected group of players, bad behavior and an 0-7 start against some of the worst teams in MBB. Calls to the AD to act immediately to save the players are ignored.

Worst Hire. Worst Management, Worst Reaction, Worst AD

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In all fairness, I've reconsidered and think Bob Bockrath was the worse hire ever. So Fox has that.

---

Bob Bockrath was the worst AD hire (though Knucklehead Knowlton is a close second).
Mark Fox is the worst basketball HC hire.
Tommy Holmoe was the worst football HC hire.

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Bob Bockrath was only at Cal for two years. He left Cal for the Texas Tech job, a five year contract at $125,000 a year. Pushed out?

If someone turns out to be a bad hire and they are fired (or you "let" then leave) after two years, thst is par for the course. What kills you is, when someone turns out to be a bad hire and you extend them 8 years. Though I am not sure how the rest of the 90s could have been worse.

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Only two years but he pushed out Snyder (the best coach we have had since Waldorf retired) and hired Gilbertson (who rivals Holmoe as the worst football HC. He fired Campanelli (I think he should have been disciplined not fired) and hired a not yet ready Boseman.

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Agree that he did huge damage in a short period of time, but we eventually recovered and could have done so much more quickly.

Knowlton is more like long term strangulation, especially at this most critical moment in the history of college athletics and the Pac-12. If Knowlton is here for the full (12?) years….

The only glimmer of hope is 1) he gets fired for the McKeever scandal or 2) the fact that the Supreme Court has taken control of revenue sports from the NCAA and athletic directors and given it to the boosters.

Big C said:

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What the AD should be doing at this point is privately interviewing the players about how they feel their experience is. This was how they justified letting Campanelli go, mid-season. Of course, Knowlton may not want to hear what they have to say.

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Cal should take student mental health seriously but they don't. As evidenced with the McKeever situation and now Fox's bullying behavior which has been commented on for years in this forum as well as other sites. Nothing about Fox suggests he is a good human being.

I think this was obvious from the very first meeting between Fox and the players. IIRC, this is when Sueing left.

Cal should also take alumni mental health into consideration.

sonofabear51 said:

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I think this was obvious from the very first meeting between Fox and the players. IIRC, this is when Sueing left.

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Bingo. The looks on the players' faces listening to his nonsense told the story. That was a huge uh-oh moment right there.

Yep. The looks on the players faces spoke volumes. That guy appears to be a southern cracker bully. Cal had talent and a togetherness that is missing now. There is still talent there, but not much in the way of a leader in the coach. IDK, this is kinda what I see. 0-11 and he is still there. Oh, and everything is 'fine'. OK knowlton. You are a huge part of this also. Fire them all. Start clean. And start at the top. Again, ^&*( rolls down hill. I am all about the players, it is the management, the coaches, and the so-called AD. And while we are at it, the Chancellor also. Isn't that where everything gets approved? Please comment.

Agreed. I've been around football since I was a kid, against Texas in '69. And Bball also, Gene Ransome especially. Been to and seen a lot. There is no reason that this is happening here at Cal. Yes athletics should be about them, but they need the help and support from the so-called leaders, i.e., AD, and Chancellor, IMHO. The Chancellor oversees the AD, no? She is responsible also. The last 6 years of Bball are a joke as far as leadership goes.
One last thought, why in the $%^& do you hire a search firm to look for a Bball coach? This seems totally ludicrous to me.
Oh, and then there is the McKeever issue. ***?

barsad said:

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I know that coaches don't jump ship after one year but… anyone notice what Chris Gerlufson is doing across the Bay at USF? 8-2? Cal would sell the Campanile for 8-2 right now. Maybe Knowlton can start lobbying now to get him over here. USF 's program under Golden was like the 6 years we wanted at Cal instead we got the Jones-Fox gut punches. Bring some of the Dons' goodness over here.

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Smith went to WSU just as we announced Wyking was fired. Golden started at USF the same year as Fox started at Cal.

We could have had any of Smith, Golden or Gerlufson and for less than we are paying Fox.

Pasternack. Look at what he is doing this year at ucsb. The only sane choice.

I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?