Shocky1 said:

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bluesaxe, ur funny as **** criticisms of all the mcdonalds all americans made me smile since ur team wuz 3-29 this season...kentucky is the gold standard in recruiting, if you beat them multiple times for guys ur gonna have a pretty special program, got it?

ur commentary kinda reminds me of the dumb azz guy in this video criticizing his perfectly fabulous (ok maybe a little bit flawed) curvy brunette yoga female girlfriend, she's a mcdonalds all american in my book

we were a program during coach martin's (and coach montgomery) cal's monster class era of a 18-0 home record in front of almost 11,000 fans per game with a loud & hostile homecourt advantage that often stormed the floor after epic victories while celebrating with mcdonalds all americans the magic of cal basketball

but u saw it differently, it wuz all just a ****show to u, **** coach martin

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Like I said, I liked the Martin hire. But what I said about the recruits you mentioned wasn't criticism. Those were facts about your so-called potential Final Four team. Look it up. Responding with stats from a totally different team and a bunch of yoga bull**** isn't much of an argument. THAT Brown/Rabb team had potential Final Four talent but lost in the first round. Also a fact, though it was a loss with a lot of causes that were not Martin's fault. I was at those home games Skip, and yeah life was different then.

Just don't tell me he coached an NBA style offense. A perfectly valid criticism would be that he didn't hire an assistant who could do that.

Shocky1 said:

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https://instagr.am/p/BNSb5TFBc3c
bluesaxe, ok my fun is over (and this thread is probably getting closer to the end) so here's a more nuanced real world insider view of mcdonalds all americans, let's take jemarl baker, ok?

u wrote "Baker turned out to be mediocre at best"

coach martin hired the best s&c coach i've ever met (my clients include a nba organization which allows me access to other nba teams's personnel) i've ever met, he got guys ready for the league with nba bodies with toned muscle that incorporated yoga (at my urging) as part of the developmental process...and the fact that shocky thought his wife wuz pretty amazing wuz not a surprise to nobody (fallon would coach taylor on how to put together outfits without going designer label crazy)

nicodemus tole me that getting jermarl baker's very skinny frame (kinda like current commit sharpshooter rodney brown who will likely decommit if joe pasternack don't end up in berkeley) nba ready wuz gonna be a major priority...jemarl wuz arguably the top perimeter shooter in high school in his class & never got his body right at kentucky which resulted in debilitating injuries & ur right his career flamed out but that don't mean he couldn't have been an all american for the bears with coach martin & nicodemus christopher shaping his body, got it?

so if coach martin stays in berkeley, then coach nico (who is now running a very successful training program with multiple nuggets in denver as clients) stays too & then 1st round nba draft pick joshua christopher would've been a bear at both nico & patrick's encouragement...plz spare me ur expertise in breaking down all of the flaws in joshua christopher's game who plays for the houston rockets, ok?

but of course the dumb azzs who believe "cuonzo left the cupboard" bare don't consider that jemarl baker could've reached his true upside in berkeley or that joshua christopher would've been a california golden bear before being the #24th pick in the 2021 nba draft

there's been a lot of misinformation on this board during my 6 year censorship termination, the monster has always strived to tell the truth

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I never said he left the cupboard bare. His departure did in fact leave very little talent with us, but I'm willing to believe that those guys might have come if he stayed. I'm not arguing that Martin was a bad hire or that he didn't do a lot of good things for the program. And I would have liked that recruiting class, like I would have loved Josh Christopher as a Bear. But strength and conditioning, as much as it can help someone improve, doesn't make a program. Fact is, none of those guys turned out to be stars and the stars we did have who were actually better than those guys didn't sniff a Final Four.

The point remains that Martin's offenses were never very good, even with high quality players. Weren't good at Tennessee, weren't good at Cal, weren't good at Missouri. Martin had a lot of good qualities, but I wish he'd seen that hole in his own game and hired someone to fill it.

You can insult everyone who disagrees with you all you want but it won't make you right about that. Cheers.

bluesaxe said:

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Shocky1 said:

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bluesaxe, ur funny as **** criticisms of all the mcdonalds all americans made me smile since ur team wuz 3-29 this season...kentucky is the gold standard in recruiting, if you beat them multiple times for guys ur gonna have a pretty special program, got it?

ur commentary kinda reminds me of the dumb azz guy in this video criticizing his perfectly fabulous (ok maybe a little bit flawed) curvy brunette yoga female girlfriend, she's a mcdonalds all american in my book

we were a program during coach martin's (and coach montgomery) cal's monster class era of a 18-0 home record in front of almost 11,000 fans per game with a loud & hostile homecourt advantage that often stormed the floor after epic victories while celebrating with mcdonalds all americans the magic of cal basketball

but u saw it differently, it wuz all just a ****show to u, **** coach martin

---

Like I said, I liked the Martin hire. But what I said about the recruits you mentioned wasn't criticism. Those were facts about your so-called potential Final Four team. Look it up. Responding with stats from a totally different team and a bunch of yoga bull**** isn't much of an argument. THAT Brown/Rabb team had potential Final Four talent but lost in the first round. Also a fact, though it was a loss with a lot of causes that were not Martin's fault. I was at those home games Skip, and yeah life was different then.

Just don't tell me he coached an NBA style offense. A perfectly valid criticism would be that he didn't hire an assistant who could do that.

---

It's funny because that Cuonzo team did receive the highest seed in Cal's modern history, but one could still make the argument that no Cal coach has done less with more…granted, Jaylen Brown was far from the player he is now…kid was a lock for 2 player-control fouls a night. And Ivan Rabb, while solid, certainly was never the dynamic player people hoped him to be…missing Ty Wallace and Jabari in the 1st rounder v. Hawaii was a dagger.

Shocky1 said:

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socaltownie said:

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Quinn was a scholarship athlete. Now we can quibble that ted

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quinn wuz a walk on & received preferential admissions which ensured donna wuz not gonna let her husband take another job for 4-5 years unless he wanted to live all by himself at the office at some truck stop town

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Yep, Quinn Tedford got treated in admissions as a preferred walk-on, so it is silly to compare the situation to Cuonzo Martin's kid, who was not looking to be on the basketball team. Tedford's kid almost certainly gets the same treatment as Martin's kid if he is looking to be admitted without the preferential admissions treatment from being a PWO. Martin's kid almost certainly gets in if he had been an athlete with PWO status.

Saying that Martin would have stayed if only his kid had gotten admitted to Cal is about the same as saying that Martin would have stayed if only the Cal campus had been moved to St. Louis, Missouri. Neither one was going to happen, so what's the point?

Shocky1 said:

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socal, joshua martin is black & got a 3.67 gpa and wuz not cleared off the wait list by berkeley admissions

quinn tedford is white & got a significantly lower gpa & got accepted by berkeley admissions (to his credit quinn earned his degree)

if you gotta head coach that can successfully recruit the best athletes on planet earth (i.e. mcdonalds all americans) & potentially compete for a final four during march madness than you make an exception for his son, the incremental value of the tens of millions of dollars in additional donations to the university is for the greater good in the trade off for one admission spot

you disagree & that's fine, life is not linear

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I think you two should just agree to disagree on this point. Quinn Tedford is not relevant, IMHO, because that was a different time, and the level of demand for admission to Cal is undoubtedly greater now than it was then. The argument about Martin's son being AA is a decent one, but that ship sailed with Prop. 209. Also, I must admit that my view on this is that socioeconomic status should be given more consideration, and race less, in deciding when to special admit applicants. I'm not sure bringing in upper-middle-class kids of other races really adds that much to diversity. What you need is diversity of experiences, but that's just my opinion.

This also goes back to SCT's point, which I agree with, that Cal doesn't need athletics to attract applicants. The research on whether athletics also leads to non-athletic donations to a university is also mixed, as I understand it.

Basically, the issue is really whether Knowlton believes basketball can be successful enough to generate more money that it's generating now to support non-revenue sports, or whether he's sufficiently fearful of donors pulling general support for the athletic department to do something about the basketball disaster, even when he'd rather not.

We'll know once the hire is announced. IMHO, if it's Miles or another retreat, or really anyone probably other than Pasternack or Abdur-Rahim, we'll no he doesn't care, and I can spend my Thursday nights and weekend afternoons working on my two-plane swing at the driving range or the course, rather than wasting time at Haas Pavilion.

Cabin14 said:

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bluesaxe said:

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Shocky1 said:

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bluesaxe, ur funny as **** criticisms of all the mcdonalds all americans made me smile since ur team wuz 3-29 this season...kentucky is the gold standard in recruiting, if you beat them multiple times for guys ur gonna have a pretty special program, got it?

ur commentary kinda reminds me of the dumb azz guy in this video criticizing his perfectly fabulous (ok maybe a little bit flawed) curvy brunette yoga female girlfriend, she's a mcdonalds all american in my book

we were a program during coach martin's (and coach montgomery) cal's monster class era of a 18-0 home record in front of almost 11,000 fans per game with a loud & hostile homecourt advantage that often stormed the floor after epic victories while celebrating with mcdonalds all americans the magic of cal basketball

but u saw it differently, it wuz all just a ****show to u, **** coach martin

---

Like I said, I liked the Martin hire. But what I said about the recruits you mentioned wasn't criticism. Those were facts about your so-called potential Final Four team. Look it up. Responding with stats from a totally different team and a bunch of yoga bull**** isn't much of an argument. THAT Brown/Rabb team had potential Final Four talent but lost in the first round. Also a fact, though it was a loss with a lot of causes that were not Martin's fault. I was at those home games Skip, and yeah life was different then.

Just don't tell me he coached an NBA style offense. A perfectly valid criticism would be that he didn't hire an assistant who could do that.

---

It's funny because that Cuonzo team did receive the highest seed in Cal's modern history, but one could still make the argument that no Cal coach has done less with more…granted, Jaylen Brown was far from the player he is now…kid was a lock for 2 player-control fouls a night. And Ivan Rabb, while solid, certainly was never the dynamic player people hoped him to be…missing Ty Wallace and Jabari in the 1st rounder v. Hawaii was a dagger.

---

Martin was a very good coach for us. He brought in a historic recruiting class, beat EVERY team in the Pac-12 and got us a 4 seed in the west. Extreme bad luck that knocked two starters out for the tournament (one during pre-game) was the reason Cal didn't go the Sweet Sixteen or higher which was a near lock considering having Wallace alone would have beaten Hawaii and our second round match up was very good.

Cal would have been the hot team like many teams that were launched with a big tourney run (e.g. Altman's first season). With that result we would have certainly added a better recruiting class and made the NCAA the next year too (as it was, we missed the tournament by a win or two)

This narrative that Jalen just puts his head down and charges into defenders is just wrong. Brown was Pac 12 freshmen of the year, and first team all-conference. Coaches didn't vote for him if they thought all he did was run into people.

Yes that happened in the Hawaii game after Singer went out with early fouls and Chauca was assaulted by their undersized, but quick and experienced PG, but neither would have played PG if we had Wallace. With Wallace and Bird our bench of Roger, Domingo and Chauca would have barely seen the court.

That trio combined played 48 minutes, scored 3 points on 0-11 shooting and 3-6 FTs

HoopDreams said:

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Cabin14 said:

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bluesaxe said:

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Shocky1 said:

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bluesaxe, ur funny as **** criticisms of all the mcdonalds all americans made me smile since ur team wuz 3-29 this season...kentucky is the gold standard in recruiting, if you beat them multiple times for guys ur gonna have a pretty special program, got it?

ur commentary kinda reminds me of the dumb azz guy in this video criticizing his perfectly fabulous (ok maybe a little bit flawed) curvy brunette yoga female girlfriend, she's a mcdonalds all american in my book

we were a program during coach martin's (and coach montgomery) cal's monster class era of a 18-0 home record in front of almost 11,000 fans per game with a loud & hostile homecourt advantage that often stormed the floor after epic victories while celebrating with mcdonalds all americans the magic of cal basketball

but u saw it differently, it wuz all just a ****show to u, **** coach martin

---

Like I said, I liked the Martin hire. But what I said about the recruits you mentioned wasn't criticism. Those were facts about your so-called potential Final Four team. Look it up. Responding with stats from a totally different team and a bunch of yoga bull**** isn't much of an argument. THAT Brown/Rabb team had potential Final Four talent but lost in the first round. Also a fact, though it was a loss with a lot of causes that were not Martin's fault. I was at those home games Skip, and yeah life was different then.

Just don't tell me he coached an NBA style offense. A perfectly valid criticism would be that he didn't hire an assistant who could do that.

---

It's funny because that Cuonzo team did receive the highest seed in Cal's modern history, but one could still make the argument that no Cal coach has done less with more…granted, Jaylen Brown was far from the player he is now…kid was a lock for 2 player-control fouls a night. And Ivan Rabb, while solid, certainly was never the dynamic player people hoped him to be…missing Ty Wallace and Jabari in the 1st rounder v. Hawaii was a dagger.

---

Martin was a very good coach for us. He brought in a historic recruiting class, beat EVERY team in the Pac-12 and got us a 4 seed in the west. Extreme bad luck that knocked two starters out for the tournament (one during pre-game) was the reason Cal didn't go the Sweet Sixteen or higher which was a near lock considering having Wallace alone would have beaten Hawaii and our second round match up was very good.

Cal would have been the hot team like many teams that were launched with a big tourney run (e.g. Altman's first season). With that result we would have certainly added a better recruiting class and made the NCAA the next year too (as it was, we missed the tournament by a win or two)

This narrative that Jalen just puts his head down and charges into defenders is just wrong. Brown was Pac 12 freshmen of the year, and first team all-conference. Coaches didn't vote for him if they thought all he did was run into people.

Yes that happened in the Hawaii game after Singer went out with early fouls and Chauca was assaulted by their undersized, but quick and experienced PG, but neither would have played PG if we had Wallace. With Wallace and Bird our bench of Roger, Domingo and Chauca would have barely seen the court.

That trio combined played 48 minutes, scored 3 points on 0-11 shooting and 3-6 FTs

---

That's silly - Jaylen Brown was a poor outside shooter at Cal and got a majority of his points going to the tin and from the free throw line. He drew contact, he initiated contact. He drew a whistle one way or the other a great deal of the time. You say the narrative that he just put his head down and charged into defenders was wrong, but that's actually exactly what he did...

He was undoubtedly talented, a deserving FOY and all-P12 guy - but he was hardly a polished offensive player, and spent a great deal of time in the 1H of games sitting with 2 fouls, many of which were from the offensive side, including the Hawaii game.

No arguments here that Stephen Domingo, Brandon Chauca & Roger Moute-bidias had no business seeing action in the Dance...they weren't P12 caliber players.

Martin was a good coach, no doubt...but he inherited a roster that already had Ty Wallace, Jabari Bird and Jordan Mathews...those were Monty's guys. Let's not make Cuonzo out to be something he is not, as that roster had 4 NBA players, yet still underachieved.

Cabin14 said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Cabin14 said:

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bluesaxe said:

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Shocky1 said:

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bluesaxe, ur funny as **** criticisms of all the mcdonalds all americans made me smile since ur team wuz 3-29 this season...kentucky is the gold standard in recruiting, if you beat them multiple times for guys ur gonna have a pretty special program, got it?

ur commentary kinda reminds me of the dumb azz guy in this video criticizing his perfectly fabulous (ok maybe a little bit flawed) curvy brunette yoga female girlfriend, she's a mcdonalds all american in my book

we were a program during coach martin's (and coach montgomery) cal's monster class era of a 18-0 home record in front of almost 11,000 fans per game with a loud & hostile homecourt advantage that often stormed the floor after epic victories while celebrating with mcdonalds all americans the magic of cal basketball

but u saw it differently, it wuz all just a ****show to u, **** coach martin

---

Like I said, I liked the Martin hire. But what I said about the recruits you mentioned wasn't criticism. Those were facts about your so-called potential Final Four team. Look it up. Responding with stats from a totally different team and a bunch of yoga bull**** isn't much of an argument. THAT Brown/Rabb team had potential Final Four talent but lost in the first round. Also a fact, though it was a loss with a lot of causes that were not Martin's fault. I was at those home games Skip, and yeah life was different then.

Just don't tell me he coached an NBA style offense. A perfectly valid criticism would be that he didn't hire an assistant who could do that.

---

It's funny because that Cuonzo team did receive the highest seed in Cal's modern history, but one could still make the argument that no Cal coach has done less with more…granted, Jaylen Brown was far from the player he is now…kid was a lock for 2 player-control fouls a night. And Ivan Rabb, while solid, certainly was never the dynamic player people hoped him to be…missing Ty Wallace and Jabari in the 1st rounder v. Hawaii was a dagger.

---

Martin was a very good coach for us. He brought in a historic recruiting class, beat EVERY team in the Pac-12 and got us a 4 seed in the west. Extreme bad luck that knocked two starters out for the tournament (one during pre-game) was the reason Cal didn't go the Sweet Sixteen or higher which was a near lock considering having Wallace alone would have beaten Hawaii and our second round match up was very good.

Cal would have been the hot team like many teams that were launched with a big tourney run (e.g. Altman's first season). With that result we would have certainly added a better recruiting class and made the NCAA the next year too (as it was, we missed the tournament by a win or two)

This narrative that Jalen just puts his head down and charges into defenders is just wrong. Brown was Pac 12 freshmen of the year, and first team all-conference. Coaches didn't vote for him if they thought all he did was run into people.

Yes that happened in the Hawaii game after Singer went out with early fouls and Chauca was assaulted by their undersized, but quick and experienced PG, but neither would have played PG if we had Wallace. With Wallace and Bird our bench of Roger, Domingo and Chauca would have barely seen the court.

That trio combined played 48 minutes, scored 3 points on 0-11 shooting and 3-6 FTs

---

That's silly - Jaylen Brown was a poor outside shooter at Cal and got a majority of his points going to the tin and from the free throw line. He drew contact, he initiated contact. He drew a whistle one way or the other a great deal of the time. You say the narrative that he just put his head down and charged into defenders was wrong, but that's actually exactly what he did...

He was undoubtedly talented, a deserving FOY and all-P12 guy - but he was hardly a polished offensive player, and spent a great deal of time in the 1H of games sitting with 2 fouls, many of which were from the offensive side, including the Hawaii game.

No arguments here that Stephen Domingo, Brandon Chauca & Roger Moute-bidias had no business seeing action in the Dance...they weren't P12 caliber players.

Martin was a good coach, no doubt...but he inherited a roster that already had Ty Wallace, Jabari Bird and Jordan Mathews...those were Monty's guys. Let's not make Cuonzo out to be something he is not, as that roster had 4 NBA players, yet still underachieved.

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Right about now, I would take a few years of 18-0 at home, a 4 seed, and an upset loss in the tourney.

Sweet Jesus, what's going on with this thread?

We are coming out of an era of having the worst P5 team in the entire nation. The. Single. Worst. Team.

Why is so much energy being spent arguing over the offense (it wasn't good) for the last guy who was successful here? This is like groaning about an ex-girlfriend being bad in the sack when your current wife is sleeping with your best friend. Eyes on the prize, guys. Eyes on the prize.

tequila4kapp said:

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Sweet Jesus, what's going on with this thread?

We are coming out of an era of having the worst P5 team in the entire nation. The. Single. Worst. Team.

Why is so much energy being spent arguing over the offense (it wasn't good) for the last guy who was successful here? This is like groaning about an ex-girlfriend being bad in the sack when your current wife is sleeping with your best friend. Eyes on the prize, guys. Eyes on the prize.

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It's a slow news day.

parentswerebears said:

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I expect the worst.

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I thought Tim Miles was the worst...then they threw Tom Crean into the mix, and I could totally see idiot Knowlton going for him.

tom crean has never been in the mix

agreed tim miles would be the worst & that knowlton is an idiot

Jaylen Brown said he spoke with Cal AD Jim Knowlton about the school's coaching opening and offered his thoughts, including an endorsement for Kennasaw State coach Amir Abdur-Rahim,who has drawn interest. Brown said he's happy to be included in the process. #Celtics #CalBears

— gary washburn (@GwashburnGlobe) March 22, 2023