Big C said:

---

We scrimmage with Boise State look poor and lose a player. Somebody wonders if we should worry, I laugh...

We squeak by the St. Thomas Tommies, whom I'd never heard of.

We lose to UOP, who in turn loses by 85 points to a team of 4th graders that played on the court at half time last year.

In our best game of the year so far, we avenge that NIT game and beat Bakersfield by 20. Bakersfield. And we lose a couple of players.

Then we lose to the Montana State Bobcats. I believe we trailed the whole way. I was hoping Madsen's sunny disposition and varied-and-impressive background would take us to the Final Four by Christmas (yes, I know when it is, but Madsen is so authentic, I figured he could get it changed.).

So, dammit, does this mean that we are going to need to play good basketball and actually win the games? That could be too much to ask, but I want instant results. If I had patience, I'd go fishing or something...

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

Big C said:

---

We scrimmage with Boise State look poor and lose a player. Somebody wonders if we should worry, I laugh...

We squeak by the St. Thomas Tommies, whom I'd never heard of.

We lose to UOP, who in turn loses by 85 points to a team of 4th graders that played on the court at half time last year.

In our best game of the year so far, we avenge that NIT game and beat Bakersfield by 20. Bakersfield. And we lose a couple of players.

Then we lose to the Montana State Bobcats. I believe we trailed the whole way. I was hoping Madsen's sunny disposition and varied-and-impressive background would take us to the Final Four by Christmas (yes, I know when it is, but Madsen is so authentic, I figured he could get it changed.).

So, dammit, does this mean that we are going to need to play good basketball and actually win the games? That could be too much to ask, but I want instant results. If I had patience, I'd go fishing or something...

---

Didn't the sky fall last year? Can't that thing just fall and stay fallen?

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

Big C said:

---

We scrimmage with Boise State look poor and lose a player. Somebody wonders if we should worry, I laugh...

We squeak by the St. Thomas Tommies, whom I'd never heard of.

We lose to UOP, who in turn loses by 85 points to a team of 4th graders that played on the court at half time last year.

In our best game of the year so far, we avenge that NIT game and beat Bakersfield by 20. Bakersfield. And we lose a couple of players.

Then we lose to the Montana State Bobcats. I believe we trailed the whole way. I was hoping Madsen's sunny disposition and varied-and-impressive background would take us to the Final Four by Christmas (yes, I know when it is, but Madsen is so authentic, I figured he could get it changed.).

So, dammit, does this mean that we are going to need to play good basketball and actually win the games? That could be too much to ask, but I want instant results. If I had patience, I'd go fishing or something...

---

Didn't the sky fall last year? Can't that thing just fall and stay fallen?

---

JimSox said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

Playing hurt? Or maybe he and Bowser were just under orders to pass to Cone, Tyson or Aimaq every time they had the ball. In other words, just there as an outlet when someone has nowhere else to go with the ball and to rebound and play defense. Which makes it three against five on offense, which is what it looked like to me last night. I don't know about Bowser, but I'm sure Newell is a better player than what we saw last night. Don't want to rag on those players. Maybe it's the coaching.

---

4thGenCal said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

Totally spot on comments. Coaches will battle the past year's defeatist mentality with the returning players - well meaning players who want to win certainly, but attitudes take time to change when adversity hits. Team is severely limited now and they have yet to have their top 8 players play together. Cohesion and team work will likely not occur until after Xmas. I am very hopeful that Jalen Cone can step up (as I expect) in the coming games. Young man is a baller and has a great shooting stroke - right now teams are hedging on him and giving help to his defender, since we have not shown consistent ability to hit 3's from other shooters. And with Celestine out for 2 weeks (fortunately not serious), we are w/o another pure shooter to force opponents to defend the team straight up. Personally my disappointment thus far is the lack of consistent toughness/physicality on the defensive end - players are being beat off the dribble too often and have not shown awareness to stop back cuts, or effectively deal with screens with on ball defender. Coaches hopefully will make this an area of improvement.

---

HearstMining said:

---

I'm afraid it's a process. Even with the portal, Cal is not going from godawful to great in a hurry. Between our recent history, the academic demands, and middling NIL resources, players won't knock down the door to come here, yet. But if we can get from godawful to decent this year, and decent to good next year, the momentum will pick up. I just hope Madsen can pull a little Dana Altman magic (not a reference to getting players admitted with miniscule academics) out of his hat by the middle of the conference stretch and the team will play more cohesively.

---

HearstMining said:

---

I'm afraid it's a process. Even with the portal, Cal is not going from godawful to great in a hurry. Between our recent history, the academic demands, and middling NIL resources, players won't knock down the door to come here, yet. But if we can get from godawful to decent this year, and decent to good next year, the momentum will pick up. I just hope Madsen can pull a little Dana Altman magic (not a reference to getting players admitted with miniscule academics) out of his hat by the middle of the conference stretch and the team will play more cohesively.

---

Civil Bear said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

I'm afraid it's a process. Even with the portal, Cal is not going from godawful to great in a hurry. Between our recent history, the academic demands, and middling NIL resources, players won't knock down the door to come here, yet. But if we can get from godawful to decent this year, and decent to good next year, the momentum will pick up. I just hope Madsen can pull a little Dana Altman magic (not a reference to getting players admitted with miniscule academics) out of his hat by the middle of the conference stretch and the team will play more cohesively.

---

Altman is a good example with all the transfers he brings in every year. He has won at least 20 games every season at Oregon which is extremely impressive, and I would be tickled pink if Cal could accomplish 20 wins this year. In his 13 seasons, even with 20+ wins, the Ducks failed to reach the NCAA tourney 5 times and had at least 5 OOC losses in those seasons. I'm sure many of those losses came to inferior mid-major teams.

---

oskidunker said:

---

Cone is not the second coming of Jerome Randle.

---

oskidunker said:

---

Newell is shooting 57% from three and 56% from two. He just didnt get many shots last night he has greatly improved

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

JimSox said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

Playing hurt? Or maybe he and Bowser were just under orders to pass to Cone, Tyson or Aimaq every time they had the ball. In other words, just there as an outlet when someone has nowhere else to go with the ball and to rebound and play defense. Which makes it three against five on offense, which is what it looked like to me last night. I don't know about Bowser, but I'm sure Newell is a better player than what we saw last night. Don't want to rag on those players. Maybe it's the coaching.

---

Really? Grant and Monty were "under orders" to pass to Cone? I think you've watched "Hoosiers" too many times when Hackman told the sub to stay out of the way and not shoot. Real coaching doesn't work that way.

---

socaltownie said:

---

4 games in and Fox's failure (there were many) to develop a P12 point guard is glaring. This has to be the priority because the college game (for lots of reasons) still remains one in which you need a facilitator and a guy to take charge on the court with the ball in his hand to initiate offense)

And yes, the defense is AWFUL - again another fox failure to be able to recruit athletic guys that are quick enough to defend the rim and not get taken off the bounce if their man pulls them out.

After 4 games time to get back to reality. Be nice to finish above .500. Not really seeing that but that would be the ceiling. Hopefully 10 wins is the floor.

---

Big C said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

4 games in and Fox's failure (there were many) to develop a P12 point guard is glaring. This has to be the priority because the college game (for lots of reasons) still remains one in which you need a facilitator and a guy to take charge on the court with the ball in his hand to initiate offense)

And yes, the defense is AWFUL - again another fox failure to be able to recruit athletic guys that are quick enough to defend the rim and not get taken off the bounce if their man pulls them out.

After 4 games time to get back to reality. Be nice to finish above .500. Not really seeing that but that would be the ceiling. Hopefully 10 wins is the floor.

---

Besides the fact that my therapist has suggested that I repress this guy's name from my memory, maybe we should set a time limit, after which we can no longer blame current performance on the previous coach.

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

4 games in and Fox's failure (there were many) to develop a P12 point guard is glaring. This has to be the priority because the college game (for lots of reasons) still remains one in which you need a facilitator and a guy to take charge on the court with the ball in his hand to initiate offense)

And yes, the defense is AWFUL - again another fox failure to be able to recruit athletic guys that are quick enough to defend the rim and not get taken off the bounce if their man pulls them out.

After 4 games time to get back to reality. Be nice to finish above .500. Not really seeing that but that would be the ceiling. Hopefully 10 wins is the floor.

---

Besides the fact that my therapist has suggested that I repress this guy's name from my memory, maybe we should set a time limit, after which we can no longer blame current performance on the previous coach.

---

People were blaming Wyking even last year.

---

JimSox said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

JimSox said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

Playing hurt? Or maybe he and Bowser were just under orders to pass to Cone, Tyson or Aimaq every time they had the ball. In other words, just there as an outlet when someone has nowhere else to go with the ball and to rebound and play defense. Which makes it three against five on offense, which is what it looked like to me last night. I don't know about Bowser, but I'm sure Newell is a better player than what we saw last night. Don't want to rag on those players. Maybe it's the coaching.

---

Really? Grant and Monty were "under orders" to pass to Cone? I think you've watched "Hoosiers" too many times when Hackman told the sub to stay out of the way and not shoot. Real coaching doesn't work that way.

---

Ok. I said MAYBE they were under orders to disappear from the offense. It's the only explanation I could come up with because I just don't understand why we were playing three against five. I suppose another explanation could be that we only had three decent players with Askew and Celestine out.
By the way, I only saw Hoosiers once, and that was a long enough time ago that I remember almost nothing about it. Something about the townies against the students? Or was that another movie? Who won?

---

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Newell is shooting 57% from three and 56% from two. He just didnt get many shots last night he has greatly improved

---

That last part is a very bold statement. He has yet to make more than one three in a game. Last season, he had only one game out of 32 games where he made 2 in a game. He is not a proven 3 point shooter, and with all the perimeter shooters we are supposed to have now, I don't want him taking more than one or two threes a game, until he proves he is capable of making them in bunches. His game is inside, and he needs to concentrate on improving at that. And work on his free throws. Last season his free throws were barely average. This season so far, his free throw shooting is below average (57%).

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

... I actually think Farmaq hangs on to the ball excessively, especially in the open floor ...

---

stu said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

... I actually think Farmaq hangs on to the ball excessively, especially in the open floor ...

---

I agree in the half court and I cringe whenever he doesn't give the ball to a guard in the back court. Some opponent is going to scout that and press him.

---

oskidunker said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Newell is shooting 57% from three and 56% from two. He just didnt get many shots last night he has greatly improved

---

That last part is a very bold statement. He has yet to make more than one three in a game. Last season, he had only one game out of 32 games where he made 2 in a game. He is not a proven 3 point shooter, and with all the perimeter shooters we are supposed to have now, I don't want him taking more than one or two threes a game, until he proves he is capable of making them in bunches. His game is inside, and he needs to concentrate on improving at that. And work on his free throws. Last season his free throws were barely average. This season so far, his free throw shooting is below average (57%).

---

He made 2-3 against Bakersfield. He has been working on his three point shot.

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

JimSox said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

JimSox said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Tyson is All Pac12

We have a good rebounding center, although his defense is sus

We have an undersized shooter

The problem is our remaining players aren't helping

Not sure what happened to Grant this year

He doesn't look confident on the court and is not playing good ball on offense or defense

I don't get it

---

Playing hurt? Or maybe he and Bowser were just under orders to pass to Cone, Tyson or Aimaq every time they had the ball. In other words, just there as an outlet when someone has nowhere else to go with the ball and to rebound and play defense. Which makes it three against five on offense, which is what it looked like to me last night. I don't know about Bowser, but I'm sure Newell is a better player than what we saw last night. Don't want to rag on those players. Maybe it's the coaching.

---

Really? Grant and Monty were "under orders" to pass to Cone? I think you've watched "Hoosiers" too many times when Hackman told the sub to stay out of the way and not shoot. Real coaching doesn't work that way.

---

Ok. I said MAYBE they were under orders to disappear from the offense. It's the only explanation I could come up with because I just don't understand why we were playing three against five. I suppose another explanation could be that we only had three decent players with Askew and Celestine out.
By the way, I only saw Hoosiers once, and that was a long enough time ago that I remember almost nothing about it. Something about the townies against the students? Or was that another movie? Who won?

---

No it was the little school in a little town in Indiana that ended up winning the state championship tournament against the big city schools. And to your point, on Thursday Bowser and Newell didn't touch the ball very often. I actually think Farmaq hangs on to the ball excessively, especially in the open floor. Whatever our issue is, let's hope it looks better next game.

---