HoopDreams said:

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There were several interview questions when he came on as coach and again when we played Stanford. There will be again when we play Stanford again

His answers showed his deep affection for Stanford and if replayed to a Stanford hiring panel would go over well

He did add a brief sentence about Cal afterwards but of course it was a cal press conference

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Big C said:

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I don't think Madsen would go to Stanford after only one year here, unless he feels like we haven't held up our end of the bargain. Furthermore, even though I know that these guys have to look out for themselves and their families, I feel like a move like that would be somewhat unethical. Obviously, Haase's time on the Farm is limited. If Madsen really wanted to be there, he shouldn't have taken the Cal job, seeing as the two schools are arch-rivals.

I love this Cardinal-turned-Bear like I loved Monty, but if returned to Furd after only one season, I'd really despise him. Unless it were revealed that we had jammed him up on multiple fronts, like we did Cuonzo.

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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I don't think Madsen would go to Stanford after only one year here, unless he feels like we haven't held up our end of the bargain. Furthermore, even though I know that these guys have to look out for themselves and their families, I feel like a move like that would be somewhat unethical. Obviously, Haase's time on the Farm is limited. If Madsen really wanted to be there, he shouldn't have taken the Cal job, seeing as the two schools are arch-rivals.

I love this Cardinal-turned-Bear like I loved Monty, but if returned to Furd after only one season, I'd really despise him. Unless it were revealed that we had jammed him up on multiple fronts, like we did Cuonzo.

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1. So if he left for Stanford after 3 years would it be better? Right now, there are no signed, incoming recruits. Most of the guys he brought in were one year guys. His commitment is less than it will be each year. Plus, moving his kids now is better than three years from now. If Stanford is his dream job he should leave now.

2. Monty was not a Stanford alum. He was a Stanford employee. Madsen is not a Cal alum, he is a Cal employee. He will do what he thinks is best for his career and his family.

3. He took the Cal job because it is a good job and he knows it. There was no guarantee the Stanford job would open up. It is like Taylor taking the Stanford job. If Wilcox resigned tomorrow, and we offered him the job, don't you think Taylor leaves Stanford for Cal? As I've said, I'm pretty sure the deciding factor in our favor is if he really likes the idea of raising his family in the same area he grew up in vs Palo Alto.

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You're being too logical, rational and pragmatic for me. For example...

When Brennan Scarlett went to Furd for his 5th year, I thought it was a betrayal and he was scum. However...
When the Furd OT came here last season to play his 5th year, I thought it was an understandable decision. Honorable even.

If we're going to be logical and pragmatic, we will need to figure out why we have an attachment to these guys, because, bottom line, we know that they are, as that other poster always notes, simply "laundry".

If Madsen goes to Furd after only one season at Cal, he can kiss my ass. (But I don't think he will; he's better than that.)

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sonofabear51 said:

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I don't think he leaves Cal for awhile. IIRC, he grew up in the East Bay, and I think his ethics are better than most other coaches. IMHO, I think he has a higher standard. Guess we will see.

GO BEARS!!

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calumnus said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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I don't think he leaves Cal for awhile. IIRC, he grew up in the East Bay, and I think his ethics are better than most other coaches. IMHO, I think he has a higher standard. Guess we will see.

GO BEARS!!

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There is nothing unethical about following the terms of your contract to accept an offer to coach at a better job or at your alma mater. There was nothing unethical in Madsen buying his way out of the Utah Valley contract to come to Cal. If Wilcox had taken the Oregon job, that would not have been a lapse in his "ethics." If Cal offered Taylor there would be nothing unethical about him leaving Stanford and coming "home" to coach. Many people that Madsen cares about would view spurning his alma mater as a betrayal and "unethical." One of the advantages of hiring alums is you avoid that particular risk.

Again, I think it comes down to how settled in the Madsen family is in the East Bay (especially how happy his wife is) and how much Madsen wants to raise his family where he grew up because when it comes to Madsen's "ethics" and "love" I'm pretty sure:

Cal<Stanford<his family.

If he thinks staying put is what is best for his family, he will stay put.

But yes, we will see.

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Bobodeluxe said:

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calumnus said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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I don't think he leaves Cal for awhile. IIRC, he grew up in the East Bay, and I think his ethics are better than most other coaches. IMHO, I think he has a higher standard. Guess we will see.

GO BEARS!!

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There is nothing unethical about following the terms of your contract to accept an offer to coach at a better job or at your alma mater. There was nothing unethical in Madsen buying his way out of the Utah Valley contract to come to Cal. If Wilcox had taken the Oregon job, that would not have been a lapse in his "ethics." If Cal offered Taylor there would be nothing unethical about him leaving Stanford and coming "home" to coach. Many people that Madsen cares about would view spurning his alma mater as a betrayal and "unethical." One of the advantages of hiring alums is you avoid that particular risk.

Again, I think it comes down to how settled in the Madsen family is in the East Bay (especially how happy his wife is) and how much Madsen wants to raise his family where he grew up because when it comes to Madsen's "ethics" and "love" I'm pretty sure:

Cal<Stanford<his family.

If he thinks staying put is what is best for his family, he will stay put.

But yes, we will see.

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The Stanford life ring, in these turbulent waters, is much more buoyant than that of the UC Berkeley Bears.

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4thGenCal said:

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calumnus said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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calumnus said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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I don't think he leaves Cal for awhile. IIRC, he grew up in the East Bay, and I think his ethics are better than most other coaches. IMHO, I think he has a higher standard. Guess we will see.

GO BEARS!!

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There is nothing unethical about following the terms of your contract to accept an offer to coach at a better job or at your alma mater. There was nothing unethical in Madsen buying his way out of the Utah Valley contract to come to Cal. If Wilcox had taken the Oregon job, that would not have been a lapse in his "ethics." If Cal offered Taylor there would be nothing unethical about him leaving Stanford and coming "home" to coach. Many people that Madsen cares about would view spurning his alma mater as a betrayal and "unethical." One of the advantages of hiring alums is you avoid that particular risk.

Again, I think it comes down to how settled in the Madsen family is in the East Bay (especially how happy his wife is) and how much Madsen wants to raise his family where he grew up because when it comes to Madsen's "ethics" and "love" I'm pretty sure:

Cal<Stanford<his family.

If he thinks staying put is what is best for his family, he will stay put.

But yes, we will see.

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The Stanford life ring, in these turbulent waters, is much more buoyant than that of the UC Berkeley Bears.

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Yes, if it is just the two jobs I'm pretty sure Madsen chooses Stanford. Those connections are very important to him. He'd have more security there. Our advantage is inertia. The Cal job opened up first and he is here.

What is the LDS life in Palo Alto like? Schools are very good.

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LDS in Palo Alto has 3 separate Wards (Church designations) The main one is Menlo Park "Stake Center", Palo Alto Ward and also an Stanford Ward (designed mainly for the younger LDS attending Stanford or working nearby) Plus Steve Young among several others, in the Church reside in Palo Alto, whom Coach knows. The local public schools are very good and there are some excellent close by private schools as well (Pinewood, Meno School, Sacred Heart, Castilija) So yes the HC job at Stanford offers multiple advantages. Cal has the advantages of being near his East Bay roots for growing up, would be a disruption for his 4 young kids(very important factor to him and his Wife), He clearly has very high integrity and leaving a Program after one year, would be very difficult for him to agree too. "Big C' hit on the key factor being his feeling on whether He can win here - meaning will the donor base step up to the necessary NIL fund raising the ACC level requires. That is really the key factor as coaches want to feel/see/trust that the Alumni base and Department are committed to winning. Personally I would be surprised if Coach Madsen were to leave after this season for Cal or another program. Now if He turns the program around (NCAA entrant etc) in 3 years, that would be more likely concern.

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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eastcoastcal said:

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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Any chance of us replicating this? Seems like a great idea to me. At conservatively 4% returns that's nearly 2M annually (not including one-off donations). Love the idea of getting 10 of our whales to put $5M each- obviously very easy for me to say but I have seen VCs put that kind of money towards seed rounds without blinking an eye.

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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bluehenbear said:

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With the advent of NIL, I think it would be easier for Madsen to recruit to Cal. Would Aimaq, Cone and Tyson have been able to transfer to furd?

As I implied above, it is his relationship with Knowlton and the Cal bureaucracy (AD and university) that will chase him away.

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HearstMining said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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With the exception of the Cuonzo's Brown/Rabb class, it seems like Stanford has recruited better than Cal for years and years and I haven't been able to figure out why. Stanford has had mediocre coaches (Trent Johnson, Dawkins, Haase) since Monty left 20 years ago, yet still recruit stronger than Cal, even during Monty and Braun's best years. Ok, maybe the Powe/Kately class (I think they came in together) was better on paper, but didn't really pan out. Anyway, I've always wondered about this.

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bipolarbear said:

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bluehenbear said:

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The biggest reason Madsen would leave begins and ends with this person:

https://www.higherechelon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Knowlton-head-shot-small-002-James-Knowlton-768x1024.jp

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Such a punchable face

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

---

Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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Sebastabear said:

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calumnus said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

---

Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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Any chance of us replicating this? Seems like a great idea to me. At conservatively 4% returns that's nearly 2M annually (not including one-off donations). Love the idea of getting 10 of our whales to put $5M each- obviously very easy for me to say but I have seen VCs put that kind of money towards seed rounds without blinking an eye.

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While we are not claiming tax exempt status, it still might be advantageous to seek out donations of appreciated stock, with the donors thereby avoiding capital gains taxes.

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Unfortunately that doesn't work. Basis transfers to the new holder of the stock. So if the collective were to receive $100 in stock that you had a basis of $20 in, the collective would have taxable income of $80 when we sold it to pay athletes. The reason you can give appreciated stock to a charity without a tax event is the charity also takes the original basis and has a gain but it isn't a taxpaying entity. So the $80 in gain doesn't trigger a tax event for them

If this worked, people would buy houses and cars with appreciated stock. There's a reason that doesn't happen.

Rereading this post, i realize I definitely went wrong somewhere in my life that I'm posting about tax accounting on a sports message board. Yikes.

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wifeisafurd said:

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

---

Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

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So they must be saving all that money for another year. Let's try your two best players and starting d-back when healthy went into the Portal. Absolutely no excuse for letting a future NFL player like Yurosek get away if you have money. Any evidence you can share with us that the Furd guys actually raised any money, or if they have why they are too afraid to use any of it?

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Sebastabear said:

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calumnus said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

---

Stanford privately(but its been discussed in various media articles) has now embraced NIL with six very wealthy alums contributing $42M+- with the plan set up to be endowed and thus the interest/investment returns are to be funneled into Football and basketball on a yearly basis. Not sure of all the specific details, but their players are getting varied amounts of NIL income. All other points spot on, with good talent on the current roster. Definitely Haase/staff have continually underperformed, w/o ever making the NCAA post season tournament.

---

Any chance of us replicating this? Seems like a great idea to me. At conservatively 4% returns that's nearly 2M annually (not including one-off donations). Love the idea of getting 10 of our whales to put $5M each- obviously very easy for me to say but I have seen VCs put that kind of money towards seed rounds without blinking an eye.

---

While we are not claiming tax exempt status, it still might be advantageous to seek out donations of appreciated stock, with the donors thereby avoiding capital gains taxes.

---

Unfortunately that doesn't work. Basis transfers to the new holder of the stock. So if the collective were to receive $100 in stock that you had a basis of $20 in, the collective would have taxable income of $80 when we sold it to pay athletes. The reason you can give appreciated stock to a charity without a tax event is the charity also takes the original basis and has a gain but it isn't a taxpaying entity. So the $80 in gain doesn't trigger a tax event for them

If this worked, people would buy houses and cars with appreciated stock. There's a reason that doesn't happen.

Rereading this post, i realize I definitely went wrong somewhere in my life that I'm posting about tax accounting on a sports message board. Yikes.

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HearstMining said:

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Big C said:

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The Stanford job is kind of interesting right now, in terms of being able to build a winner:

- On one hand, they don't seem to have many fans, they haven't embraced NIL and they're not keen on transfers

+ On the other hand, they have brought in some pretty impressive high school classes, especially taking Haase into account

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