PtownBear1 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

6956bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

He may have already had an offer from the Furd as leverage. I hope to high holy hell this has proper language to compensate us if he's "bought out" by another entity, though, and have zero confidence that it does, with Knowlton involved. On its face, though, this is a solid move. Mad Dog forever!

---

Yes the "buy out" provision was increased. I like the move/extension, early yes - but Madsen is special and given the challenges any coach faces at Cal, He has the energy/passion/people skills(connecting with donor's), street cred (amongst agents/advisors, recruits), player connection/on court motivation to develop and play hard for him. And thus to turn Cal into a winning program. Defined as a team that qualifies for March Madness post season at least twice every 4-5 seasons. The past two coaches put the program into life support mode and true progress (post season play) takes a minimum of three new recruiting classes. With prominent HC positions to be opening up, its smart to be aggressive with this very promising HC. To be clear - I am referring to basketball only.

---

This statement concerns me. Recruiting is so much different now than just a few seasons ago. NIL $$ has changed everything regarding recruiting. You need a robust annual warchest or you are just flat out screwed. My sense from what I have read on these boards is that the collective is still looking for NIL $$ for this recruiting class.

While trying to win you need players that can impact the record now. That takes NIL $$. Proven players cost. And now they can transfer multiple times before graduating. Players don't wait anymore. They run to the next shiny object.

I really like the things that you describe that makes Madsen unique. I hope you are right. But program building is not a thing really anymore. You need to win and win now. And you need to pay the players. If Cal does not win right away under Madsen I am very dubious they can attract the NIL $$ needed to grow the program. Or the fans needed to return Haas to the great home environment we know it is when full or nearly so.

It is just 3 days into the portal so he has time to get the right players here to be competitive next season. But even filling out your roster with bench players takes money. And right now Cal has 8 open slots and could be looking at a few more.

I am sure Madsen has a plan. I am just not sure there are enough resources, support or time to execute it.

---

All true - and ideally you mix in some solid freshman(who are 2-3 year likely commitments) to avoid the situation the Coach Madsen inherited and is facing this upcoming season. People didn't fully understand just how bad the roster was that Madsen inherited. Trying to change a losing culture with several hold overs is very difficult - with many issues to resolve/improve (NIL expectations, playing time, mentally giving into losses, when games are on the line and leads slip away etc). Hind sight always 20/20, but would have been better to have just kept Celestine and let all the others leave rather than persuade them to buy in to the new system/expectations/specific roles etc. NIL now has created locker room issues, unrealistic expectations of one's self worth etc. Ie Brown.
The amount of NIL monies needed and where it is today is a big delta. There are several of us stepping up, but no big Whales and even the #'s of the lower helpful amounts of just $5K-25K donations, are very low. Madsen is well aware of this (new job description) and is working around the clock to garner more support. The flip side is that there are plenty of players available who will improve the roster (compared to last season) and that given patience from the fan base/coupled with financial support, Madsen will produce a competitive post season playing program (defined as twice every 5 seasons as a minimum bar - starting with this upcoming season).

---

At the rate the roster is turning over, next year Madsen may have trouble matching this year's win total. This past year he pulled in a supposedly top-ten transfer class that took a long time to gel and then, even in a very down Pac-12 conference, they were mediocre. Now he has to replace nearly everyone and start all over in a tougher conference. So essentially you're getting a new starting five (four with Celestine) AND key rotation players, then having all of them ready to play in his system very quickly. I simly don't see it.

Credit to Madsen for getting that extension, cause he just bought himself some serious job security.

---

I think his job was secure regardless with our absentee AD. See Wilcox. Also, it took the worst season in Cal history to finally get rid of Fox. I can't imagine Madsen would ever sink that low, but high single digit wins next year seems likely at this point unless Madsen is given some massive $$$ to work with.

---

Gobears49 said:

---

PtownBear1 said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

6956bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

He may have already had an offer from the Furd as leverage. I hope to high holy hell this has proper language to compensate us if he's "bought out" by another entity, though, and have zero confidence that it does, with Knowlton involved. On its face, though, this is a solid move. Mad Dog forever!

---

Yes the "buy out" provision was increased. I like the move/extension, early yes - but Madsen is special and given the challenges any coach faces at Cal, He has the energy/passion/people skills(connecting with donor's), street cred (amongst agents/advisors, recruits), player connection/on court motivation to develop and play hard for him. And thus to turn Cal into a winning program. Defined as a team that qualifies for March Madness post season at least twice every 4-5 seasons. The past two coaches put the program into life support mode and true progress (post season play) takes a minimum of three new recruiting classes. With prominent HC positions to be opening up, its smart to be aggressive with this very promising HC. To be clear - I am referring to basketball only.

---

This statement concerns me. Recruiting is so much different now than just a few seasons ago. NIL $$ has changed everything regarding recruiting. You need a robust annual warchest or you are just flat out screwed. My sense from what I have read on these boards is that the collective is still looking for NIL $$ for this recruiting class.

While trying to win you need players that can impact the record now. That takes NIL $$. Proven players cost. And now they can transfer multiple times before graduating. Players don't wait anymore. They run to the next shiny object.

I really like the things that you describe that makes Madsen unique. I hope you are right. But program building is not a thing really anymore. You need to win and win now. And you need to pay the players. If Cal does not win right away under Madsen I am very dubious they can attract the NIL $$ needed to grow the program. Or the fans needed to return Haas to the great home environment we know it is when full or nearly so.

It is just 3 days into the portal so he has time to get the right players here to be competitive next season. But even filling out your roster with bench players takes money. And right now Cal has 8 open slots and could be looking at a few more.

I am sure Madsen has a plan. I am just not sure there are enough resources, support or time to execute it.

---

All true - and ideally you mix in some solid freshman(who are 2-3 year likely commitments) to avoid the situation the Coach Madsen inherited and is facing this upcoming season. People didn't fully understand just how bad the roster was that Madsen inherited. Trying to change a losing culture with several hold overs is very difficult - with many issues to resolve/improve (NIL expectations, playing time, mentally giving into losses, when games are on the line and leads slip away etc). Hind sight always 20/20, but would have been better to have just kept Celestine and let all the others leave rather than persuade them to buy in to the new system/expectations/specific roles etc. NIL now has created locker room issues, unrealistic expectations of one's self worth etc. Ie Brown.
The amount of NIL monies needed and where it is today is a big delta. There are several of us stepping up, but no big Whales and even the #'s of the lower helpful amounts of just $5K-25K donations, are very low. Madsen is well aware of this (new job description) and is working around the clock to garner more support. The flip side is that there are plenty of players available who will improve the roster (compared to last season) and that given patience from the fan base/coupled with financial support, Madsen will produce a competitive post season playing program (defined as twice every 5 seasons as a minimum bar - starting with this upcoming season).

---

At the rate the roster is turning over, next year Madsen may have trouble matching this year's win total. This past year he pulled in a supposedly top-ten transfer class that took a long time to gel and then, even in a very down Pac-12 conference, they were mediocre. Now he has to replace nearly everyone and start all over in a tougher conference. So essentially you're getting a new starting five (four with Celestine) AND key rotation players, then having all of them ready to play in his system very quickly. I simly don't see it.

Credit to Madsen for getting that extension, cause he just bought himself some serious job security.

---

I think his job was secure regardless with our absentee AD. See Wilcox. Also, it took the worst season in Cal history to finally get rid of Fox. I can't imagine Madsen would ever sink that low, but high single digit wins next year seems likely at this point unless Madsen is given some massive $$$ to work with.

---

I was very excited by Madsen agreeing to the extension but was surprised and disheartened that so many of our best returning players decided to move on. Any logical reasons for that?"

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

For much of the season, these guys simply did not play fundamentally sound basketball. Same mistakes over and over, and with rare exceptions, relatively low basketball IQ. The anticipation of plays developing wasn't there, almost ever. Great opportunities for easy buckets missed because someone wasn't paying attention or couldn't coordinate their hands and minds to catch a ball, or secure a rebound, or not throw a telegraphed pass. Some kids just "get it" and some don't. Kennedy got it, but he's gone. Tyson got it, but he's likely gone. Celestine gets its and he's staying (as far as we know). There really is one guy on this team who inspires confidence heading into next year, so maybe this is all ok. Madsen gets guys who get the game and will follow directions and learn to improve, and we'll be alright. We will never know what another coach could have done with this crew, but my feeling is that this team would have done the same or worse, because they simply weren't that good. So now it's 100% Madsen's chance to earn his paycheck, get HIS guys, and coach them up fast.

---

bearsandgiants said:

---

For much of the season, these guys simply did not play fundamentally sound basketball. Same mistakes over and over, and with rare exceptions, relatively low basketball IQ. The anticipation of plays developing wasn't there, almost ever. Great opportunities for easy buckets missed because someone wasn't paying attention or couldn't coordinate their hands and minds to catch a ball, or secure a rebound, or not throw a telegraphed pass. Some kids just "get it" and some don't. Kennedy got it, but he's gone. Tyson got it, but he's likely gone. Celestine gets its and he's staying (as far as we know). There really is one guy on this team who inspires confidence heading into next year, so maybe this is all ok. Madsen gets guys who get the game and will follow directions and learn to improve, and we'll be alright. We will never know what another coach could have done with this crew, but my feeling is that this team would have done the same or worse, because they simply weren't that good. So now it's 100% Madsen's chance to earn his paycheck, get HIS guys, and coach them up fast.

---