How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Portal Needs
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Last: 7 mo ago by parentswerebears
I'm ready for the next 3-4 day $1,000,000 NIL fundraiser to get this jump started. Lets go Bears!Sebastabear said:I think we are all learning how to adjust to the new world of NIL. That includes fans, coaches and (most importantly) players. The Cal men's basketball team definitely had some "wallet gazing" this year. A few very vocal player(s) were very, very concerned with what deals everyone else had and continuously stirred the pot in the locker room. This was unfortunate and really unlike anything we've seen on any other team.Quote:
The guy said that NIL was out of whack with the new players compared to the returners . . .
Some of that, of course, relates to the large numbers of players brought in through the portal for MBB. But let's be honest. We are talking about a team that won three games last season. A team that set the P5 record for most losses in a single season. The idea that we just needed to tweak around the edges to fix the problems is borderline science-fiction. The team massively needed an infusion of talent and got it.
But one or more of the existing players felt like they should've been receiving equivalent deals to what the new players got. That's just not how this works. We aren't handing out participation trophies and orange slices here.
Also important for everyone to realize that we are just a reflection of the fans' will. We are largely a pass-through entity. We do what our donors ask us to do. Nothing more and nothing less. Which is why we always tell players the minimum that they will receive with the hope that if they generate some more fan interest during the season, because of a spectacular game or series of games, then we will have more folks stepping up and contributing NIL deals for them specifically. That's just the way sports work. Michael Jordan did not get paid because he had an awesome haircut. Michael Jordan got paid because he was incredibly marketable, and his name, image and likeness were worth a lot to Nike. We had at least one player last year whose number got moved up a couple times because we had businesses wanting to hire him specifically. If the team blows up this year and wins 20+ games and gets into the tournament I expect a lot more of those opportunities will surface. We always strive to underpromise and overdeliver for the players.
And so far so good. No one, regardless of injury or lack of playing time who has stayed with the team and not entered the portal, has yet failed to earn their minimum number. Hell Matt Cindric on the football team got injured five minutes into the first game of the season and he still got every penny we had promised him. That's just the way we operate. But it means that we sometimes get outbid by comparison to competitors who promise the stars and the moon and then never deliver. Life is too short. Not going to play that game. And we think that eventually the smarter recruits the ones we actually want here at Cal will figure out that not all collectives are equal and that you need to pay attention to who you're doing business with.
I'm sorry there's so much sturm and drang surrounding NIL at the moment. But some of this is really growing pains. We are all learning how this works.
I agree. I also think your rim protector nowadays (and as much as I hate to see it) should be able to guard the perimeter when his man goes there. A good number of teams have a big man who can shoot threes well.HoopDreams said:
If I were to construct a great team a key component would be a lockdown defender (actually 2)
One would be a rim protector and the other a wing/guard
The rim protector would allow the perimeter defenders to be more aggressive to prevent 3 point shooters and maintain ball pressure. If they get beat than you got a second line of defense to contend with
The wing defender would guard the best player on the other team and be a disruptive force
Think about how much Kennedy defended this year. It's not just about steals and stops on the ball. Defenders like Kennedy makes passers more tentative so they hesitate or throw a saver pass farther outJohnfox said:
For those of you that have been looking for elite defensive players in the portal, USC's Kobe Johnson and ASU's
Frankie Collins are in the portal
Two wings, or guards need to be able to shut down a scorer, but even more important, one guard should be able to regularly stop the ball at point of attack.
SFCityBear
I think Frankie Collins may be related to Monte Buckley. Maybe we have an inside track. I believe Buckley was at the game watching ASU at Cal this past year.
agree... they need to be able to guard the perimeter and also quick enough to hedge or blitz a guard coming around a screenSFCityBear said:I agree. I also think your rim protector nowadays (and as much as I hate to see it) should be able to guard the perimeter when his man goes there. A good number of teams have a big man who can shoot threes well.HoopDreams said:
If I were to construct a great team a key component would be a lockdown defender (actually 2)
One would be a rim protector and the other a wing/guard
The rim protector would allow the perimeter defenders to be more aggressive to prevent 3 point shooters and maintain ball pressure. If they get beat than you got a second line of defense to contend with
The wing defender would guard the best player on the other team and be a disruptive force
Think about how much Kennedy defended this year. It's not just about steals and stops on the ball. Defenders like Kennedy makes passers more tentative so they hesitate or throw a saver pass farther outJohnfox said:
For those of you that have been looking for elite defensive players in the portal, USC's Kobe Johnson and ASU's
Frankie Collins are in the portal
Two wings, or guards need to be able to shut down a scorer, but even more important, one guard should be able to regularly stop the ball at point of attack.
Monty Buckley is Frankie Collins uncle. Buckley has been instrumental in the spots he chooses to go to. I'd bet he did not sell Cal to him originally because of Mark Fox. Buckley and Howard were close so that's why Frankie committed to Michigan first. Maybe Buckley tells Collins to come to Cal?
Brody Kozlowski, remember him? We were heavily recruiting him this past year and he even took a visit to Cal before committing to USC. Enfield was the lead recruiter and now he's outta here. Kozlowski to Cal???
All these hypotheticals and suddenly we're building a national story!
@Sebastabear Is this legal and or common practice in the NIL space? He claims to be an NIL agent. (3 part tweet below)
Tip for NIL collectives: it is possible to sign college athletes to multi year deals with buyouts.
— Daniel Poneman (@DanielPoneman) March 28, 2024
Player X is a freshman in the portal with 3 to play. He wants a 3 year guaranteed deal. You want to make sure he doesn’t blow up and leave after one year.
How to make it work:
3 year deal fully guaranteed
— Daniel Poneman (@DanielPoneman) March 28, 2024
Ex:
Year 1: $125,000
Year 2: $150,000
Year 3: $200,000
Each of these years are essentially player options, because he can always enter the portal. The player’s value is protected, but the school isn’t.
However, there’s a way to fix that…
Add a clause in the NIL collective deal that says something like this:
— Daniel Poneman (@DanielPoneman) March 28, 2024
“if student athlete transfers to outside of a 15 mile radius of (collective location) they must reimburse the collective for 50% of previous year’s NIL income.”
Now you have your buyout.
We have a win-win
Just wrote a response to this in another thread. Will post it here as well.
Thanks for the bump. I like these guys, but generally not a fan of this structure. Following problems:
1. What if the player is all hype and gets quickly passed over on the depth chart? What if they suffer a serious injury and have to retire from basketball shortly after enrollment? The collective has signed a multi-year contract with no outs on the collective side. Not a great idea. And before people say it, no you are not allowed to put in provisions saying the collective can cancel if a player is hurt. Or winds up not playing. The NCAA rules, to the extent those are still in force, explicitly say you cannot have pay for play. We are negotiating for the name, image, and likeness of the athletes. We cannot pay an athlete for points scored, or games played or anything related. It's just a flat prohibition.
2. The suggestion that the collective can demand the player return 50% of the prior year's NIL compensation if they transfer outside a 15 mile radius is also explicitly prohibited by the NCAA. Check out their Q&A on the subject. They cover this exact hypothetical. So the collective doesn't have a buyout. And that means they don't have any protection whatsoever.
3. What if the NIL rules change within the period of the contract? This NIL landscape is so fluid that locking yourself into a multi-year deal is just inherently dangerous. It wouldn't shock me at all if six months from now all of this is moved in house by the schools and outside collectives are essentially replaced ( Please God let that happen). If that's the case, you've set up a dynamic where you're doing something that's very expensive and very unnecessary.
4. We don't enter into deals with athletes unless we have the money secured. So you're asking us to fundraise for three years from now upfront for a player who may or may not work out. Virtually impossible. Other collectives aren't this careful. And as result, they've gotten themselves in a lot of trouble making offers and deals that they can't keep. See Rashada, Jaden.
Bottom line, if the player blows up and is excellent and we can monetize their name, image and likeness and get them a bunch more deal and a bunch more money in year two or year three, we will do so. But multi-year contracts are only really good for the athletes. Hard to imagine how they are good for the collectives or the school. And I would argue even for the athletes entering into a multi-year arrangement with a collective that could shut down tomorrow is not a great idea. We aren't Apple. There are no hard assets. There is no intellectual property. It's just a bunch of donors trying to help students. We could close down one entity tomorrow and open a new one the next day and the athlete would be pursuing a contract against a bankrupt and insolvent LLC or C Corp.
My advice to athletes is look at the people you're dealing with, not the entity and not the words in the contract. That's your best avenue for making sure they're going to do right by you.
Thanks for the bump. I like these guys, but generally not a fan of this structure. Following problems:
1. What if the player is all hype and gets quickly passed over on the depth chart? What if they suffer a serious injury and have to retire from basketball shortly after enrollment? The collective has signed a multi-year contract with no outs on the collective side. Not a great idea. And before people say it, no you are not allowed to put in provisions saying the collective can cancel if a player is hurt. Or winds up not playing. The NCAA rules, to the extent those are still in force, explicitly say you cannot have pay for play. We are negotiating for the name, image, and likeness of the athletes. We cannot pay an athlete for points scored, or games played or anything related. It's just a flat prohibition.
2. The suggestion that the collective can demand the player return 50% of the prior year's NIL compensation if they transfer outside a 15 mile radius is also explicitly prohibited by the NCAA. Check out their Q&A on the subject. They cover this exact hypothetical. So the collective doesn't have a buyout. And that means they don't have any protection whatsoever.
3. What if the NIL rules change within the period of the contract? This NIL landscape is so fluid that locking yourself into a multi-year deal is just inherently dangerous. It wouldn't shock me at all if six months from now all of this is moved in house by the schools and outside collectives are essentially replaced ( Please God let that happen). If that's the case, you've set up a dynamic where you're doing something that's very expensive and very unnecessary.
4. We don't enter into deals with athletes unless we have the money secured. So you're asking us to fundraise for three years from now upfront for a player who may or may not work out. Virtually impossible. Other collectives aren't this careful. And as result, they've gotten themselves in a lot of trouble making offers and deals that they can't keep. See Rashada, Jaden.
Bottom line, if the player blows up and is excellent and we can monetize their name, image and likeness and get them a bunch more deal and a bunch more money in year two or year three, we will do so. But multi-year contracts are only really good for the athletes. Hard to imagine how they are good for the collectives or the school. And I would argue even for the athletes entering into a multi-year arrangement with a collective that could shut down tomorrow is not a great idea. We aren't Apple. There are no hard assets. There is no intellectual property. It's just a bunch of donors trying to help students. We could close down one entity tomorrow and open a new one the next day and the athlete would be pursuing a contract against a bankrupt and insolvent LLC or C Corp.
My advice to athletes is look at the people you're dealing with, not the entity and not the words in the contract. That's your best avenue for making sure they're going to do right by you.
parentswerebears said:
How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Last year:
Aimaq arrived 4-27, Cone 4-28, meadows 5-4, Kennedy 5-11, Tyson 5-12, for reference.
Last year Madsen was hired on March 29th.Ccajon2 said:parentswerebears said:
How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Last year:
Aimaq arrived 4-27, Cone 4-28, meadows 5-4, Kennedy 5-11, Tyson 5-12, for reference.
stu said:Last year Madsen was hired on March 29th.Ccajon2 said:parentswerebears said:
How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Last year:
Aimaq arrived 4-27, Cone 4-28, meadows 5-4, Kennedy 5-11, Tyson 5-12, for reference.
Knowlton in his incompetence did not even begin his coaching search until after the 3 win season was completed and he could do an evaluation, then thank Mark Fox for everything he has done for Cal basketball, doing it "the right way" etc. But at least he had some good finalists, picked a good coach and the whole thing was a vast improvement over the Jones firing/Fox hiring.
Ccajon2 said:parentswerebears said:
How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Last year:
Aimaq arrived 4-27, Cone 4-28, meadows 5-4, Kennedy 5-11, Tyson 5-12, for reference.
Madsen was hired almost exactly 1 year ago (March 29). I don't recall when all of the assistants were hired but I hope we start seeing some new players a bit earlier than last year given we've had more time to recruit this cycle.
I think this is possible. One thing that is really hard to gauge is what players still not in the portal may decide to enter. These players want to know an NIL $$ number and how the roster may shake out before entering. There are numerous back channel discussions ongoing with players still trying to sort out their options.wraptor347 said:Ccajon2 said:parentswerebears said:
How close are we on pulling in the first recruit/transfer?
Last year:
Aimaq arrived 4-27, Cone 4-28, meadows 5-4, Kennedy 5-11, Tyson 5-12, for reference.
Madsen was hired almost exactly 1 year ago (March 29). I don't recall when all of the assistants were hired but I hope we start seeing some new players a bit earlier than last year given we've had more time to recruit this cycle.
With this week being a Spring break week for most schools/players there are family discussions going on now that should help decide if a player will enter or not. A number of players that enter now will have a desired destination in mind beforehand.
Final 5 for this 4-star Portal PG...
Jhamir Brickus, a 4-star Transfer Portal PG, dives into his recruitment and breaks down schools ‼️
— Jamie Shaw (@JamieShaw5) March 29, 2024
🗣️ Virginia | VCU | Cal | Loyola-Chicago | Richmond
Led the A10 in minutes while finishing second in assists and averaging 13.9 points on 40% 3P.
READ: https://t.co/45OSyyNync pic.twitter.com/ZWYcKDaI9B
BC Calfan said:
Final 5 for this 4-star Portal PG...Jhamir Brickus, a 4-star Transfer Portal PG, dives into his recruitment and breaks down schools ‼️
— Jamie Shaw (@JamieShaw5) March 29, 2024
🗣️ Virginia | VCU | Cal | Loyola-Chicago | Richmond
Led the A10 in minutes while finishing second in assists and averaging 13.9 points on 40% 3P.
READ: https://t.co/45OSyyNync pic.twitter.com/ZWYcKDaI9B
Did he play in the 80s?
We were a finalist for Uzan a couple years back.
𝙉𝙀𝙒𝙎: #Oklahoma guard Milos Uzan will enter the transfer portal, @247Sports has learned.
— Brandon Jenkins (@BJenkins247) April 1, 2024
2023-24 Stats: 9.0 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 4.4 assists per game on 29.6 percent shooting from deep.
STORY | https://t.co/fq0nRK2tIb pic.twitter.com/vVvfsHYBcG
BC Calfan said:
We were a finalist for Uzan a couple years back.𝙉𝙀𝙒𝙎: #Oklahoma guard Milos Uzan will enter the transfer portal, @247Sports has learned.
— Brandon Jenkins (@BJenkins247) April 1, 2024
2023-24 Stats: 9.0 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 4.4 assists per game on 29.6 percent shooting from deep.
STORY | https://t.co/fq0nRK2tIb pic.twitter.com/vVvfsHYBcG
You win some when you lose some.
Hmm Brick-us? Can we find a Swish-us?oski003 said:BC Calfan said:
Final 5 for this 4-star Portal PG...Jhamir Brickus, a 4-star Transfer Portal PG, dives into his recruitment and breaks down schools ‼️
— Jamie Shaw (@JamieShaw5) March 29, 2024
🗣️ Virginia | VCU | Cal | Loyola-Chicago | Richmond
Led the A10 in minutes while finishing second in assists and averaging 13.9 points on 40% 3P.
READ: https://t.co/45OSyyNync pic.twitter.com/ZWYcKDaI9B
Did he play in the 80s?
NEWS: Arizona State transfer guard Frankie Collins tells @On3sports he’s cut his list to six schools:
— Joe Tipton (@TiptonEdits) April 2, 2024
Returning to ASU
TCU
SMU
San Diego State
Florida
Cal
Story: https://t.co/9XxIC7TWkU pic.twitter.com/y8ft66VW7S
Cal in the Top 6 for ASU PG Frankie Collins
As mentioned previously, his uncle is Monty Buckley
I wonder how much ASU was giving him?
edit: never mind. found this:
edit: never mind. found this:
Frankie Collins says on social media he will explore all options, including an ASU return.
— Chris Karpman (@ChrisKarpman) March 27, 2024
NIL perspective: Collins made around 200k this season, per sources. In the Big 12, the top 10 guards made an average of around $345k in 2023 per Opendorse data given to NIL collectives.
Big development. Frankie Collins will enter the transfer portal. He was one of the highest paid ASU athletes in NIL this year.
— Chris Karpman (@ChrisKarpman) March 27, 2024
Bobby Hurley indicated ASU’s NIL situation has improved and it’s been a focus. But ASU may not be able to afford Collins and build a roster around him. https://t.co/pQJlQjfJq7
ASU can't even keep pace with the Big 12 pay scale. Too bad, so sad.
Sounds like we will have to pay him 350k to play at Cal. I wonder how much money Madsen is working with?
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
Go Bears!
oskidunker said:
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
One strategy might be to find a group of maybe 3 or more players that want to play together to form the initial core. Then build from there.
oskidunker said:
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
That's why bearister started the thread on this forum yesterday, "BRONNY'S A BEAR!!!". In case they're not paying close attention.
calumnus said:oskidunker said:
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
One strategy might be to find a group of maybe 3 or more players that want to play together to form the initial core. Then build from there.
Thats probably what will happen.
Go Bears!
I'm not sure being on a top team is always the main goal. Players also want money, playing time, and exposure. Being on a top team is great, but not if you're on the bench or sharing time.oskidunker said:
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
Cal offers:
- A lot of playing time & the potential to play a major role on the team
- A fast-paced offense that allows guys to showcase skills
- Exposure & competition in a top basketball conference
- An improving program
- A coach/staff with NBA experience
- A demonstrated ability to prepare/showcase players for the NBA (Tyson)
- Access to a major media market with the potential for additional NIL opportunities
Not saying Cal can compete with top programs for marquee guys, but if they are competitive with NIL, I think there are several reasons to believe we can attract good players. Last year we had a brand new coach, were coming off an historically embarrassing season, were part of a collapsing conference, and had zero student interest. And we still landed several good players. I think we're in a better position now.
From nearby Oakley, Bluebloods will be swarming.
NEWS: Oregon State guard Jordan Pope plans to enter the transfer portal, he tells @on3sports. ⁰⁰The 6-2 sophomore led the Beavers in scoring this season, averaging 17.6 PPG. Big addition to the portal. https://t.co/rzZr73gGuq pic.twitter.com/NOnBnwe1Rp
— Joe Tipton (@TiptonEdits) April 2, 2024
Well put and accurate The key is NIL and Coach is working his butt off to speak to nearly anyone who has the capability to fund the program's NIL needs. His frequent flyer mileage is impressive!DaveT said:I'm not sure being on a top team is always the main goal. Players also want money, playing time, and exposure. Being on a top team is great, but not if you're on the bench or sharing time.oskidunker said:
Why would a player want to come here assuming the money is in the ball,park? Anyone wanting to be on a top 25 team wont. "Come to Cal and be the first person to sign. Sorry we dont know who else might be coming. " What's the pitch and will they buy it?And dont tell me we are a great academic institution. They wont care
Cal offers:
- A lot of playing time & the potential to play a major role on the team
- A fast-paced offense that allows guys to showcase skills
- Exposure & competition in a top basketball conference
- An improving program
- A coach/staff with NBA experience
- A demonstrated ability to prepare/showcase players for the NBA (Tyson)
- Access to a major media market with the potential for additional NIL opportunities
Not saying Cal can compete with top programs for marquee guys, but if they are competitive with NIL, I think there are several reasons to believe we can attract good players. Last year we had a brand new coach, were coming off an historically embarrassing season, were part of a collapsing conference, and had zero student interest. And we still landed several good players. I think we're in a better position now.
Stanford freshman Andrej Stojakovic, a 2023 McDonald’s All American, will take an official visit to California on April 19-20, a source tells @247SportsPortal.https://t.co/jN5AiO1j5L pic.twitter.com/kfFNHOq3S4
— Travis Branham (@TravisBranham_) April 5, 2024
Andrej Stojakovic will visit Cal
This is good news.
I haven't read the story because it's behind a paywall, but On3 just posted a story in their Transfer Portal section entitled:
Transfer PG Jamarii Thomas talks portal recruitment; Iowa, Cal, George Mason
on3.com/transfer-portal/news/transfer-pg-jamarii-thomas-talks-portal-recruitment-iowa-cal-george-mason/
Transfer PG Jamarii Thomas talks portal recruitment; Iowa, Cal, George Mason
on3.com/transfer-portal/news/transfer-pg-jamarii-thomas-talks-portal-recruitment-iowa-cal-george-mason/
He would be a good get!
MEAC player of the year, defensive player of the year, led in points and steals. A great building block and instant starter. I think he will be a sophomore. Bring him home!
MEAC player of the year, defensive player of the year, led in points and steals. A great building block and instant starter. I think he will be a sophomore. Bring him home!
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