Addicted-to-TopDog said:
Like I said before, both he and Stojo are going to command $1M-plus. Nice knowing ya.
Stojos dad wants him to stay at Cal whereMadsen will showcase him.
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
Jeremiah Wilkinson to the portal
11,962 Views |
149 Replies |
Last: 2 mo ago by mbBear
Stojos dad wants him to stay at Cal whereMadsen will showcase him.
PenBear said:
I think he is leaving because he doesn't see the team playing winning basketball in the coming year. You can see the frustration on him when he goes thru 3 opposing players and get hacked to get an And-1 and the other team comes down and cal plays no defense and give up an easy 3 pointer within seconds to neutralize his hard earned points.
Thats why I was hoping for any post season games NIT crown to see if Madsen improves his schemes and tactics and gives some hope to the top players to stay.
I think he's leaving because somewhere closer to home is offering equal or more money. Somewhere with a dedicated practice facility... and a higher likelihood of winning.
Did Wilkinson not even bother with a "Having said that . . . " message, or did I miss it?
I think Wilkinson entering the portal was expected. There are a lot of things pulling him closer to home. First it is home which is always some sort of factor. There are a lot of good programs with money and facilities very close to his home.
His family can get to Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Florida and Georgia in a relatively short drive from Atlanta. The reality is for teams like Cal (non post season teams) they will be very ripe for poaching.
Jeremiah knows he will get a bag anywhere. He knows at Cal most games will be played to a half full arena. He knows his family can get to almost any game in a few hours drive and these programs have facilities that will allow him to work on his game whenever he wants.
IMO Cal needs to adopt a recruiting strategy more closely aligned to winning now with older and more experienced players. The mid majors have a lot of good players looking for a chance to play up. As the game has become a professionalized model I have adjusted my thinking regarding building. I will miss Wilkinson. Good player. But there is no loyalty anymore. Among players or coaches. So now more than ever it is about results. Go find a roster of players that can win games. And then do it again the following season. This model is not what I prefer but I do think it is what it is for now.
His family can get to Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Florida and Georgia in a relatively short drive from Atlanta. The reality is for teams like Cal (non post season teams) they will be very ripe for poaching.
Jeremiah knows he will get a bag anywhere. He knows at Cal most games will be played to a half full arena. He knows his family can get to almost any game in a few hours drive and these programs have facilities that will allow him to work on his game whenever he wants.
IMO Cal needs to adopt a recruiting strategy more closely aligned to winning now with older and more experienced players. The mid majors have a lot of good players looking for a chance to play up. As the game has become a professionalized model I have adjusted my thinking regarding building. I will miss Wilkinson. Good player. But there is no loyalty anymore. Among players or coaches. So now more than ever it is about results. Go find a roster of players that can win games. And then do it again the following season. This model is not what I prefer but I do think it is what it is for now.
MilleniaBear said:
Are we sure this all about NIL? He plays the same position as Blacksher and we continued to start Blacksher long after JW showed he was better. He could be going portal for a school that will start him. PT is just as important as NIL.
I'm sure there's more to it than NIL, but I don't see playing time as being an issue. He broke into the starting lineup in, what, January? And has gotten major minutes since.
Other factors could be location, practice facility, coaching, travel time, winning program, no academic pressure...
6956bear said:
I think Wilkinson entering the portal was expected. There are a lot of things pulling him closer to home. First it is home which is always some sort of factor. There are a lot of good programs with money and facilities very close to his home.
His family can get to Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Florida and Georgia in a relatively short drive from Atlanta. The reality is for teams like Cal (non post season teams) they will be very ripe for poaching.
Jeremiah knows he will get a bag anywhere. He knows at Cal most games will be played to a half full arena. He knows his family can get to almost any game in a few hours drive and these programs have facilities that will allow him to work on his game whenever he wants.
IMO Cal needs to adopt a recruiting strategy more closely aligned to winning now with older and more experienced players. The mid majors have a lot of good players looking for a chance to play up. As the game has become a professionalized model I have adjusted my thinking regarding building. I will miss Wilkinson. Good player. But there is no loyalty anymore. Among players or coaches. So now more than ever it is about results. Go find a roster of players that can win games. And then do it again the following season. This model is not what I prefer but I do think it is what it is for now.
How has that been working out the past two years? 5,10 all world point guards.
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
To clarify - at this point in time, JW has not left the team or transferred yet, so any such message would be extremely premature.DaveT said:
Did Wilkinson not even bother with a "Having said that . . . " message, or did I miss it?
Ha has entered the portal, which is required for any of the thousands of MBB players that want to consider their options. He risks losing his scholarship (but that is an extremely small risk, in this case).
Everyone should be surprised at starters on a team that DO NOT enter the portal.
Well for sure good starters on bad teams. Like Wilkinson and possibly Stojakovic. I would bet Wilkinson is sitting on several good NIL offers right now. Teams tamper and there is no reason not to. There are no consequences for doing so.BeachedBear said:To clarify - at this point in time, JW has not left the team or transferred yet, so any such message would be extremely premature.DaveT said:
Did Wilkinson not even bother with a "Having said that . . . " message, or did I miss it?
Ha has entered the portal, which is required for any of the thousands of MBB players that want to consider their options. He risks losing his scholarship (but that is an extremely small risk, in this case).
Everyone should be surprised at starters on a team that DO NOT enter the portal.
I would be stunned if Jeremiah returned to Cal, but yes he could.
Will be interesting to watch JW if he leaves as anticipated. Suspect his scoring average and minutes played will go down.
I hate the transfer portal.
How much does he want to stay?
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
Excellent clarification about good starters on bad teams. Thank You!6956bear said:Well for sure good starters on bad teams. Like Wilkinson and possibly Stojakovic. I would bet Wilkinson is sitting on several good NIL offers right now. Teams tamper and there is no reason not to. There are no consequences for doing so.BeachedBear said:To clarify - at this point in time, JW has not left the team or transferred yet, so any such message would be extremely premature.DaveT said:
Did Wilkinson not even bother with a "Having said that . . . " message, or did I miss it?
Ha has entered the portal, which is required for any of the thousands of MBB players that want to consider their options. He risks losing his scholarship (but that is an extremely small risk, in this case).
Everyone should be surprised at starters on a team that DO NOT enter the portal.
I would be stunned if Jeremiah returned to Cal, but yes he could.
A good player on a good team, that is getting paid well doesn't need to enter the portal. And there will be some good players on mediocre teams that may have reasons to pass the portal (for example, I could see Stoja stand pat).
For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
I think we WANT to have the problem that both of them are as good or better than JW and other teams covet them.Big C said:RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
Big C said:RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
I think Wilkinson played last year
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
oskidunker said:Big C said:RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
I think Wilkinson played last year
He was a college freshman this year. Last year he played as a HS senior for The Skill Factory in Atlanta (transfered from McEachern High in Powder Springs, Georgia).
Just picked up a copy of today's Daily Cal. Full page article lauding Jeremiah Wilkinson. Bad timing.
BeachedBear said:I think we WANT to have the problem that both of them are as good or better than JW and other teams covet them.Big C said:RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
Sure, we want to have that problem, but it would surprise me if we will.
Do you see either of the 2025 freshman guards having a year like JW just had?
Wilkinson is Cal's most athletic and exciting player since Jaylen Brown and even have a better outside shot. He will be very hard to replace.
I agree. The sour grapes on display here undeniable.
My market timing was off. I custom ordered 5000 units with this printing on them:
*Cal sports has turned into a never ending Raiders' season.
*Cal sports has turned into a never ending Raiders' season.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
PenBear said:
Wilkinson is Cal's most athletic and exciting player since Jaylen Brown and even have a better outside shot. He will be very hard to replace.
He was the 6th man of the year. The freshman next year will likely both start so I would say we are in great shape and saving a lot of money $ for a center and another shooter. It's a rough loss but I want folks who want to be here. Now if Andrej bails, too, we're really in trouble. I still think Madsen is a mid coach at best and really need to see something better out of him than developing a single player every year who makes it to the league, while the rest of the team flounders
There seems to be a drastic misconception on this board that finding good young players, developing them, and keeping them, and thus building a team is a quaint notion that has been made irrelevant by the portal. That is completely ridiculous. The portal is an important part of recruiting. It has not replaced old school recruiting and development. Good programs sign good young players, develop them and keep them and that is why they succeed. Frankly, they usually don't care about the players they lose to the portal. The large majority of players in the portal are 1. Guys who were recruited at a high level who didn't work out at their current team; and 2. Guys playing on lower level teams against lower level opponents who have succeeded against poor quality competition. Good players on good teams rarely enter the portal and when they do they get snapped up by blue blood programs with a lot of cash. People have taken the notion that SOME guys leave every year to mean ALL guys leave. It may be true that you need to recruit every player every year to some extent, but the most important recruits in that case are the good player on your team already. If you can't keep them, you don't have a program.RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
Plain and simple, there is no indication that Cal is going to just sign an entire team out of the portal and have any remote success. None. Zero. Nada. Some of you are lying to yourselves which is amply clear by how the message changes through the year. One of the things that was lauded about last year's recruiting class was that it was a class we could build around, unlike the one and done class from the year before. Then our best player from that class leaves and the message is "who builds a team anymore?" (The answer is every good team).
And then we have this notion above. Who cares? We can replace him. 1. Madsen didn't recruit the new class anticipating Wilkinson leaving. He is trying to build a team which means recruiting players to ADD to the ones we have. 2. It is ridiculous to assume those guys will match Wilkinson's year. I don't know how anyone who has followed college sports for any length of time can make that assumption. 3. We can't just replace Wilkinson. We were 14-19 and had no quality wins. We beat exactly one team with a winning record in a league where most teams in high major conferences almost by default have a winning record. (That team was 17-15). I hate to break this to people, but we had a bad year. We were a poor team. It might be reasonable based on where we were a short time ago, but it is still poor. We can't just replace guys. We need to add.
So yes, losing Wilkinson would not mean we can't match this year's performance. I acknowledge that one hundred percent. We can replace him. We need to do more than replace him. I didn't think finishing 15th in conference with 6 wins, 4 of which came against 16-18 in the conference and 2 of which came against teams that were 8-12, was the goal here. I though the goal was to get better. Until you tell me we will have 5 Wilkinsons next year, he is a significant loss. His Cal WAR (wins above replacement player that Cal can get) is very high.
And the step here if history is a guide is we will get a lot of extreme happy talk about who we end up signing for next year, just like we did with guys like Blacksher last year, and there will be a bunch of I told you so's that we didn't need Wilkinson and then, like Blacksher, they will perform in actual games exactly as any objective analysis would have predicted and we will be dramatically missing Wilkinson.
If Cal can't recruit, develop and hold onto its best players, it is doomed to be a Double A franchise that feeds the MLB while also having to play in the MLB. If you guys don't think we can do better, I don't know what you think we are doing here.
I want folks who make folks want to be here.bearsandgiants said:PenBear said:
Wilkinson is Cal's most athletic and exciting player since Jaylen Brown and even have a better outside shot. He will be very hard to replace.
He was the 6th man of the year. The freshman next year will likely both start so I would say we are in great shape and saving a lot of money $ for a center and another shooter. It's a rough loss but I want folks who want to be here. Now if Andrej bails, too, we're really in trouble. I still think Madsen is a mid coach at best and really need to see something better out of him than developing a single player every year who makes it to the league, while the rest of the team flounders
He started his last 14 games and clearly was a starter by the end of the season. He played starters minutes and was our second leading scorer with fifteen a game. He averaged 19 a game over the last 14 games. He is one of only 2 Cal freshman in the history of the school to score 30 twice. There is no way to sugar coat this. His leaving is not freeing us up for a better option. We already have plenty of room for better options.
Again, his WAR at Cal is extremely high.
Madsen is smart enough to know what he is doing with that statement. When you make a declarative statement and then follow it up with your asterisk caveats, you know the soundbite is the declarative statement. I wouldn't take it as an absolute promise because it isn't something anyone can ever reasonably promise, but it very much is a promise, not that we will keep every key player, but that we are a program that keeps its key players. I'm sorry, but when you have 2 key players and one of them (frankly your best one) goes, that is a failing. I don't take it as a broken promise. I take it as a significant failure to meet stated objectives.Civil Bear said:Typical to take the phrase out of context. He immediately followed up by saying that every effort would be made to retain key players and described what that looked like. He wasn't promising it was a done deal that no key players would leave for greener pastures, just that there would be a major emphasis on retaining them. And technically JW is not gone yet, and Madsen may still be making every effort to retain him.BearlyCareAnymore said:"The phrase we'll use is this. Key players are going to be retained"Johnfox said:
Never said that just said we'll try our best to retain the players
This is kind of consistent with this board.
"We are in good shape because A, B, and C are going to happen"
"Um...they may not happen. Shouldn't we wait and see if they happen before we say we are in good shape"
A, B and C don't happen
"We are fine anyway"
I'd really like someone to define what "fine" means and then explain how it is that we are that.
I don't really care whether Madsen said we would keep key players or not. We need to keep key players. I'm not taking Madsen to task for his statement. I'm taking others to task for essentially saying he didn't make it. He didn't say "we'll try our best to retain the players". Does anyone need to make that statement? Did anyone think before that statement that we weren't going to try our best to retain key players? In context, he clearly meant more than we will try.
It is a failed goal and should be treated as such.
Anyone know the total NIL budget for Cal men's BB? If you cannot pay, not many players will come to play in today's market. BYU just paid $5+ million plus for one player, who is one and done. Cal will never be able to compete with that, but we are going to need something like $3.5-5 million for the team to be competitive in the ACC. SEC schools are plowing some of their massive FB monies back into their basketball programs and it is already showing results. Last year Rivals rated Cal's overall recruitment class (HS and portal) as 72nd in the nation. We had no returning players to top that off with. It that is your talent level, Cal coaches are going to be doing a good job to get a 500 record. The new ACC revenue sharing giving more money to Clemson, FSU and Miami is not going to help Cal either.
Under capitalized businesses fail all the time. It is called capitalism for a reason.Caleast said:
Anyone know the total NIL budget for Cal men's BB? If you cannot pay, not many players will come to play in today's market. BYU just paid $5+ million plus for one player, who is one and done. Cal will never be able to compete with that, but we are going to need something like $5 million for the team to be competitive in the ACC. SEC schools are plowing some of their massive FB monies back into their basketball programs and it is already showing results. Last year Rivals rated Cal's overall recruitment class (HS and portal) as 72nd in the nation. We had no returning players to top that off with. It that is your talent level, Cal coaches are going to be doing a good job to get a 500 record. The new ACC revenue sharing giving more money to Clemson, FSU and Miami is not going to help Cal either.
I agree it is a failed goal should JW end up leaving. Cleary Madsen was making it a point of emphasis to retain him when the question was asked. My response was to the few posters suggesting we can't take Madsen at his word. I responded to yours because you posted only his first sentence, which without the rest of his statement does sound like a promise.BearlyCareAnymore said:Madsen is smart enough to know what he is doing with that statement. When you make a declarative statement and then follow it up with your asterisk caveats, you know the soundbite is the declarative statement. I wouldn't take it as an absolute promise because it isn't something anyone can ever reasonably promise, but it very much is a promise, not that we will keep every key player, but that we are a program that keeps its key players. I'm sorry, but when you have 2 key players and one of them (frankly your best one) goes, that is a failing. I don't take it as a broken promise. I take it as a significant failure to meet stated objectives.Civil Bear said:Typical to take the phrase out of context. He immediately followed up by saying that every effort would be made to retain key players and described what that looked like. He wasn't promising it was a done deal that no key players would leave for greener pastures, just that there would be a major emphasis on retaining them. And technically JW is not gone yet, and Madsen may still be making every effort to retain him.BearlyCareAnymore said:"The phrase we'll use is this. Key players are going to be retained"Johnfox said:
Never said that just said we'll try our best to retain the players
This is kind of consistent with this board.
"We are in good shape because A, B, and C are going to happen"
"Um...they may not happen. Shouldn't we wait and see if they happen before we say we are in good shape"
A, B and C don't happen
"We are fine anyway"
I'd really like someone to define what "fine" means and then explain how it is that we are that.
I don't really care whether Madsen said we would keep key players or not. We need to keep key players. I'm not taking Madsen to task for his statement. I'm taking others to task for essentially saying he didn't make it. He didn't say "we'll try our best to retain the players". Does anyone need to make that statement? Did anyone think before that statement that we weren't going to try our best to retain key players? In context, he clearly meant more than we will try.
It is a failed goal and should be treated as such.
Caleast said:
Anyone know the total NIL budget for Cal men's BB? If you cannot pay, not many players will come to play in today's market. BYU just paid $5+ million plus for one player, who is one and done. Cal will never be able to compete with that, but we are going to need something like $3.5-5 million for the team to be competitive in the ACC.
That last number sounds right. For the BYU number, though, the player, Dybansta, doesn't get the full amount if he is only there one season, which is very likely. Of course even if he gets "only" $1 or 1.5 million for his nine months in Provo, that's a hefty chunk of NIL.
All the more so when you take into account how early JW made his announcement. The equivalent would be losing a game by 30 after practically guaranteeing a win.
I'll be an optimist here, and propose that JW may be announcing early to give Cal a chance to respond to the NIL offers that he will receive, because he'd like to return but wants to do it at his NIL market rate.Addicted-to-TopDog said:
All the more so when you take into account how early JW made his announcement. The equivalent would be losing a game by 30 after practically guaranteeing a win.
No.Big C said:BeachedBear said:I think we WANT to have the problem that both of them are as good or better than JW and other teams covet them.Big C said:RedlessWardrobe said:For the sake of discussion, until you see these two guys perform in a college game at the same level as JW, you can never be quite sure.bearchamp said:
Why all the hand wringing about JW? We have two recruits coming in who likely will be as good and better. Think Madsen must have anticipated this when he recruited the new guys.
I'd be kind of surprised if either of the two new guys have the freshman year that Wilkinson just had, but hopefully they both stay at Cal longer and eventually get to an even higher level.
Sure, we want to have that problem, but it would surprise me if we will.
Do you see either of the 2025 freshman guards having a year like JW just had?
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