diva1;842302467 said:

---

Also didn't' we learn our Jewish coach lesson for Jewish donors during the Braun reign, seem to remember that's why he lasted as long as he did.
Been there done that have the t shirt

---

Now if Pasternack could pull an Amit Tamir out of the hat like Braun did, I would consider it LOL. Nah.

DrDanger;842302465 said:

---

Pasternak is not my choice, for a variety of reasons already posted here.
Theo's good friend is Lou Ritchie, Ivan Rabb's HS coach.
The fact is, our assistant coaches have a great relationship with most everybody. I believe two things held back greater recruiting, and it wasn't the assistants:

1. Uncertaintity of Monty's tenure. I know for a fact that Poetl and Welsh both asked about it. Welsh went to UCLA because he wanted an assurance that Monty would be his coach, and didn't get it.

2. Cal's image as a difficult academic school. Most AAU kids are swayed to easier academic schools. Think about an inner city AAU kid , who might even have a 3.0. He is now in classes with practically 100% valedictorians. Daunting, to say the least.

#1 is now answered, and the kids like Travis. Recruits will know who their coach is going to be for the next 3-4 years minimum. It will still be up to the coach to convince kids, but...#2 will always hurt Cal against the likes of Arizona (especially), Oregon, Utah, USC, San Diego State etc....until Cal figures out how to make it less intimidating for kids to actually get through Cal. It is the elephant in the room when it comes to 4-5 star players.

---

Great post, I completely agree.

Does anyone have any sense as to how things are leaning at this point? It sounds like Travis, Turner and Pasternack are three of the finalists, but do we know if any others are still being considered, or is it down to a decision among those three? Is there any sense out of those three if there is a leader?

DrDanger;842302465 said:

---

Pasternak is not my choice, for a variety of reasons already posted here.
Theo's good friend is Lou Ritchie, Ivan Rabb's HS coach.
The fact is, our assistant coaches have a great relationship with most everybody. I believe two things held back greater recruiting, and it wasn't the assistants:

1. Uncertaintity of Monty's tenure. I know for a fact that Poetl and Welsh both asked about it. Welsh went to UCLA because he wanted an assurance that Monty would be his coach, and didn't get it.

2. Cal's image as a difficult academic school. Most AAU kids are swayed to easier academic schools. Think about an inner city AAU kid , who might even have a 3.0. He is now in classes with practically 100% valedictorians. Daunting, to say the least.

#1 is now answered, and the kids like Travis. Recruits will know who their coach is going to be for the next 3-4 years minimum. It will still be up to the coach to convince kids, but...#2 will always hurt Cal against the likes of Arizona (especially), Oregon, Utah, USC, San Diego State etc....until Cal figures out how to make it less intimidating for kids to actually get through Cal. It is the elephant in the room when it comes to 4-5 star players.

---

Monty's Disinterest in Recruiting could be #3.

I wonder how just how active Monty was involved in recruiting. Did he make the kids feel wanted? Did he call, text? How many games did he go to? Was he too brutally honest? Seems like he lost the energy/interest in this aspect which turned out to be detrimental.

Polodad;842302390 said:

---

If it is JP, we would have to conclude we now have our version of Nike Phil.

---

I hope ours has Nike-ish billions to lavish on the program?

BC Calfan;842302470 said:

---

Monty's Disinterest in Recruiting could be #3.

I wonder how just how active Monty was involved in recruiting. Did he make the kids feel wanted? Did he call, text? How many games did he go to? Was he too brutally honest? Seems like he lost the energy/interest in this aspect which turned out to be detrimental.

---

First off, agree with Dr. Danger's post.

I remembered an article from another site (I won't link to it, but it is not premium content) and kind of surprised these quotes never got any play -- basically Monty calling out Arizona recruiting practices. This is getting off subject from Pasterkick and is probably part of a much larger discussion. But there is some relevance as it sheds light on Miller's culture of recruiting and how Monty and staff went about it.

Quote:

---

Q. Any comments on the rules reform package that was just passed in terms of access to kids in the summer and all those things?

COACH MONTGOMERY: How do you know that I'd have a reaction to that? It kind of blows my mind to be honest with you. The fact that we're now going to be tweeting, texting, calling these kids any time anyplace, it's hard for me to really understand. I've always been relatively protective of kids and their privacy. I think kids need to have an opportunity to focus on some of the things that are important in their lives such as academics and family. I just don't know how this is going to work itself out. I can remember the whole evolution of all the things that have gone on in the last 30 years as to why we made decisions to protect kids' privacy, to protect kids and give them a chance to study and keep them away. It's so difficult now to keep kids level headed in terms of relative to where they are and what their expectations are, to turn 340 Division I coaches on them 24 hours a day, I'm not certain how this is going to work itself out.

Montgomery was a bit more open during lunch on that point: "Don't get me started on that. That's, when I first got back, that summer, when I took the Cal job, I went recruiting. I watched certain kids, and kids got done and I watched specifically the Arizona horde all go out, and I'm watching this thing, I was stunned. I was in a daze. The NCAA gal was there, and I remember saying, 'You're telling me that this is OK?' I can't talk to him, and we can't do anything, but all of these Arizona guys they can walk up to [recruits] at any time they want and talk with them?"

"My first thought was and I knew we were never going to be able to do it was that I was just going to hire all of my managers. Teams have done that. I was just going to take all my managers and say, 'OK, you're going on the road. You're going to go raise some money and you're going to go with us to places and when the game's over, you need to go up to these guys and say, we've got this guy and when we get you, we're going to do this, they really like you and what are you thinking.'"

"I talked to a kid that we're involved with a good kid, a good family and he's saying, 'Boy, Arizona's really recruiting me hard,' and he's a junior. He just started his junior year, and we're allowed one call a month. So, he was over, and I asked him, 'What do you mean they're recruiting you hard? What are they doing that makes this so much different?' We're allowed to make one call a month, we're allowed to do seven evaluations a year, and somehow, Arizona has contact with him every day, twice a day. It's different social media, so that means that because some guy I've hired in the office knows who you are and knows your email address, just sends you something every day, even with my name attached to it? Is that doing a better job of recruiting? What does that have to do with the school, the location, the education? It's the last thing anybody cares about."

---

LOUMFSG2;842302469 said:

---

Great post, I completely agree.

Does anyone have any sense as to how things are leaning at this point? It sounds like Travis, Turner and Pasternack are three of the finalists, but do we know if any others are still being considered, or is it down to a decision among those three? Is there any sense out of those three if there is a leader?

---

I know absolutely no specifics, but I've seen enough of these searches to know a few things.

1. There is almost always one candidate that is publicly considered because some alum or alums want them. They never get the job. It's political maneuvering.

2. There are always a ton of false rumors, even by often good sources. Last time we were supposedly in intense negotations with Jay Wright while Sandy was printing out Monty's contract.

3. Fans will always panic or get overly excited about the rumors.

4. Some fans will scream that it is taking too long when it isn't.

I doubt the supposed list of finalists is the actual list. Our guy may be on the list, but I doubt that all the guys reported to be on the list actually are, and I doubt everyone who is actually on the list has been mentioned.

I'm perfectly prepared to be upset with Sandy when she makes her move - even predisposed to it, sad to say. But I'm not worried about her taking her time and I'm not worried about who she is purported to be considering.

I think that Monty was a curse and a blessing in recruiting. He could get our foot in the door with just about anyone with his experience and resume - however, when it came time to do some salesmanship - I believe that Monty figured that he would rather be brutally honest with the recruits rather then sell the dream.

I cant fault him for his honesty - but it wasn't the ideal fit for Cal as time progresses. That approach would have had us in the relatively same spot in perpetuity.

I'm hopeful that it TD gets the job that they can sell a fresh outlook and a new approach that is more in line with how the landscape has changed. TD also seems like he will not sell his soul for the 5 star kid

If it's really between Turner, Pasternack & TD - I think it should be a slam dunk. give the guy a shot, neither of those other two are iron clad winners

RollOn;842302482 said:

---

I think that Monty was a curse and a blessing in recruiting. He could get our foot in the door with just about anyone with his experience and resume - however, when it came time to do some salesmanship - I believe that Monty figured that he would rather be brutally honest with the recruits rather then sell the dream.

I cant fault him for his honesty - but it wasn't the ideal fit for Cal as time progresses. That approach would have had us in the relatively same spot in perpetuity.

I'm hopeful that it TD gets the job that they can sell a fresh outlook and a new approach that is more in line with how the landscape has changed. TD also seems like he will not sell his soul for the 5 star kid

If it's really between Turner, Pasternack & TD - I think it should be a slam dunk. give the guy a shot, neither of those other two are iron clad winners

---

I don't agree with this. I'd rather have guys here who want to be here and knew what they were getting themselves into, rather than guys who get here and say, "Hey, this is not what I was sold" and then transfer out after 1 year (as something like 40% of D-1 basketball players transfer at least once in their career now), or even sooner (e.g., Gary Franklin).

I seem to be in the minority - but I am perfectly happy with the talent we have had and I enjoyed knowing we'd have a good team who was well coached and would finish in the top third of the conference every year.

RollOn;842302482 said:

---

I think that Monty was a curse and a blessing in recruiting. He could get our foot in the door with just about anyone with his experience and resume - however, when it came time to do some salesmanship - I believe that Monty figured that he would rather be brutally honest with the recruits rather then sell the dream.

I cant fault him for his honesty - but it wasn't the ideal fit for Cal as time progresses. That approach would have had us in the relatively same spot in perpetuity.

I'm hopeful that it TD gets the job that they can sell a fresh outlook and a new approach that is more in line with how the landscape has changed. TD also seems like he will not sell his soul for the 5 star kid

If it's really between Turner, Pasternack & TD - I think it should be a slam dunk. give the guy a shot, neither of those other two are iron clad winners

---

As far as I can tell, with TD we would get a good young energetic coach with a winning personality, great ingrity and Monty's basketball IQ. Could be a really, really good basketball coach for years. Definitely worth taking a chance on.

Just hire him already!

smokeyrover;842302480 said:

---

First off, agree with Dr. Danger's post.

I remembered an article from another site (I won't link to it, but it is not premium content) and kind of surprised these quotes never got any play -- basically Monty calling out Arizona recruiting practices. This is getting off subject from Pasterkick and is probably part of a much larger discussion. But there is some relevance as it sheds light on Miller's culture of recruiting and how Monty and staff went about it.

---

Could someone better versed in NCAA rules explain/unpack the post. What does "hiring managers" have to do with it? and what does he mean by "Arizona hordes"?

bigcocoon007;842302414 said:

---

+1. No Kobe or Lebron on this roster

---

You may recall neither of those guys played in college. Aside from which, that doesn't mean that the kids we do have don't matter, or that their leaving wouldn't hurt.

smokeyrover;842302453 said:

---

That's the thing though...knowing the Bay Area coaches is one thing, but are those Oakland Soldiers getting convinced by Joe P that Arizona is the school for them, or is it simply Midnight Madness, the rankings, easy academics, etc. that is doing all the heavy lifting for him?

---

As I recall, Arizona has recruited well without Pasternak and Sean Miller has recruited well without him. I can't believe that he's that much a key to their success.

socaltownie;842302486 said:

---

Could someone better versed in NCAA rules explain/unpack the post. What does "hiring managers" have to do with it? and what does he mean by "Arizona hordes"?

---

I don't have a link - maybe someone else who shares this memory can help me out here...

I recall watching a video of Sean Miller in the Bay Area the first year he was hired at Arizona. He was at a hotel with dozens of Arizona boosters from the Bay Area talking about how they can help him recruit Bay Area talent.

I've been a backer for a while and the only message I have ever received from Cal, Bear Backers or the coaches is... "Just stay away from recruits - don't want any recruiting violations". Granted - that was a before Sean Miller came to UA - so the rules may have changed dramatically.

:headbang

barabbas;842302454 said:

---

There are a few large Jewish donors and from what I hear there is pressure from them to hire Pasternack.

---

Then hire Seth Greenberg. BTW, is AIPAC involved?

Sluggo

that is one dumb-ass, anti-Semitic post. Who the hell cares what religion he is? Like that has anything to do with winning? The "Jewish donors" woul feel the need to rally behind him for religious sake alone?
I hope you are a fan and not an alum. This post alone is embarrassment enough...that your thought process was somehow influenced by our great University would be a fucking letdown..

BeachedBear;842302493 said:

---

I don't have a link - maybe someone else who shares this memory can help me out here...

I recall watching a video of Sean Miller in the Bay Area the first year he was hired at Arizona. He was at a hotel with dozens of Arizona boosters from the Bay Area talking about how they can help him recruit Bay Area talent.

I've been a backer for a while and the only message I have ever received from Cal, Bear Backers or the coaches is... "Just stay away from recruits - don't want any recruiting violations". Granted - that was a before Sean Miller came to UA - so the rules may have changed dramatically.

:headbang

---

BB - that is what I thought. I was under the distinct impression that if one gave significant $$ to the university there was a VERY fine line (and one with a significant downside) to be out there "talking to recruits".

mbBear;842302498 said:

---

that is one dumb-ass, anti-Semitic post. Who the hell cares what religion he is? Like that has anything to do with winning? The "Jewish donors" woul feel the need to rally behind him for religious sake alone?
I hope you are a fan and not an alum. This post alone is embarrassment enough...that your thought process was somehow influenced by our great University would be a fucking letdown..

---

Without getting into the details and the lack of grace which the issue has been handled (including in the past with Braun)--it is very ironic (or telling?) that the poster's name is [U]Barabbas[/U].

I happen to share Pasternack's ethnicity, but I do NOT want him as our coach.

socaltownie;842302501 said:

---

BB - that is what I thought. I was under the distinct impression that if one gave significant $$ to the university there was a VERY fine line (and one with a significant downside) to be out there "talking to recruits".

---

Yes, and it isn't just giving significant $$$ that makes you a "booster," having ever bought season tickets, even being an alum, can make you a booster, but the question is, has the NCAA ever actually penalized a school because alumni had illegal contact? (as opposed to giving impermissible benefits). I doubt it. Though of course, Cal would be the first.

joshbalt;842302477 said:

---

Well at least you're not shy about showing your bigotry.

---

Facts are facts; you're way too sensitive!

Please not this assface.

calumnus;842302502 said:

---

Without getting into the details and the lack of grace which the issue has been handled (including in the past with Braun)--it is very ironic (or telling?) that the poster's name is [U]Barabbas[/U].

I happen to share Pasternack's ethnicity, but I do NOT want him as our coach.

---

What does that mean?

barabbas;842302509 said:

---

What does that mean?

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas

It may be unintentional but I would never have that handle and I ESPECIALLY wouldn't make anti-semetic remarks (even if tangential) with it. It is basically akin to having the Handle "Son of the War of Southern Rebellion" and using the N word.

Oh lord!!! The utter absurdity and ridiculousness that my comments are anti-Semitic are sad. Folks have a reason to lobby for who they want to; there's nothing wrong with that, IMO. The fact that people are so sensitive and make people afraid to report what is happening is the problem. If the same report was made and the donors were Irish-Catholic and the prospective coach was Irish-Catholic nobody would say anything other than maybe some jokes about drinking. It's really unfortunate that you mention Jewish and many folks automatically play the anti-Semite card. The irony is when I speak to these donors individually it's very candid, but publicly, it's apparently taboo!

barabbas;842302509 said:

---

What does that mean?

---

Just that it was ironic.

The story of Barabbas: LINK

1. In one version he is a zealot and leader of the Jewish insurgency against the Romans. In another he is a thief. In both, he is spared crucifixion by the Romans because "The Jews" chose him over Jesus of Nazarath.

2. The story of Barabbas was a key component of European/Christian antisemitism and violent persecution against Jewish communities centered on the idea that "The Jews" were "Christ-killers" (which of course contradicts Christian doctrine that the whole reason Jesus came to Earth was to die for the sins of mankind).

BTW, I didn't think your post was necessarily anti-Semitic, though it could be interpreted that way (and obviously was), but it was certainly indelicate in dealing with a very sensitive issue that may very well be only speculation and rumor.

Gorcey Pimping Joe "Pele" Pasternack

Ryan Gorcey ‏@RGBearTerritory 2m
For those who believe the rumors surrounding Joe Pasternack, some FREE food 4thought: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=166&f=1421&t=12807908 #CalBasketball #coachingsearch
Details

mbBear;842302498 said:

---

that is one dumb-ass, anti-Semitic post. Who the hell cares what religion he is? Like that has anything to do with winning? The "Jewish donors" woul feel the need to rally behind him for religious sake alone?
I hope you are a fan and not an alum. This post alone is embarrassment enough...that your thought process was somehow influenced by our great University would be a fucking letdown..

---

I think this is a little harsh. Barabbas didn't express any views of his own, he merely passed along what he heard. If - IF - what was reported is true, the only people that care about religion are the donors.

smokeyrover;842302453 said:

---

That's the thing though...knowing the Bay Area coaches is one thing, but are those Oakland Soldiers getting convinced by Joe P that Arizona is the school for them, or is it simply Midnight Madness, the rankings, easy academics, etc. that is doing all the heavy lifting for him?

---

Sean Miller is a good recruiter and player friendly coach. Basically, for top players from the Bay Area, Arizona is Kentucky but with better weather, shorter/cheaper flights on SWA and two games in the Bay Area every season for family and friends to attend.

Pasternack has nothing to do with that.

I am [U]certain[/U] DeCuire and Theo (a Soldiers alum) can recruit Soldiers to stay home at Cal better than Pasternack could.

sad part is that I am pretty much sure it will be Joe P and that it is going to be a donor-driven hire. Sad. We so need a new AD.

My objections to Pasternack is he doesn't seem like a guy who will stick around even with some Cal connections. If he does well he'll move up and out. I know he's been an AC at Cal before and is Roxie's bro-in-law but that's sorta the vibe I get. The kicking thing is also an issue because it shows bad decision making and a lack of character. Hire a homerun hire or go with a young hungry guy who can build a program over 10-15 years.

calumnus;842302528 said:

---

Sean Miller is a good recruiter and player friendly coach. Basically, for top players from the Bay Area, Arizona is Kentucky but with better weather, shorter/cheaper flights on SWA and two games in the Bay Area every season for family and friends to attend.

Pasternack has nothing to do with that.

I am [U]certain[/U] DeCuire and Theo (a Soldiers alum) can recruit Soldiers to stay home at Cal better than Pasternack could.

---

Spot on.
Pasternak was lucky to land where he did after the New Orleans job. He is in the right place at the right time, and should just ride Miller's coat tails. I do not see him having the personality or temperment to become a Major D1 HC.
Think of former Cal, St. Mary's and USC career assistant, Kurtis Townsend;
He has been at Kansas for about 20 years, as a lead assistant to three different Head Coaches there if I am not mistaken. It is his ceiling, just like the AZ job is Pasternak's ceiling.
I do not wish to see him become Cal's coach, for sure.

i generally like gorcey and the work that he does in reporting but i have to disagree with him on this one. whether or not the rumors of pay for play under pasternick are true or not, the fact that there is some controversy surrounding pasternick immediately makes him less desirable. strike 1.

he worked and gained a large portion of his experience under ben braun. travis worked under Monty. Turner worked under Monty. Musselman is from the nba. pasternicks experience is just much much less credible to me than any of these others. strike 2.

he kicked jorge. strike 3. you're out

DrDanger;842302532 said:

---

Spot on.
Pasternak was lucky to land where he did after the New Orleans job. He is in the right place at the right time, and should just ride Miller's coat tails. I do not see him having the personality or temperment to become a Major D1 HC.
Think of former Cal, St. Mary's and USC career assistant, Kurtis Townsend;
He has been at Kansas for about 20 years, as a lead assistant to three different Head Coaches there if I am not mistaken. It is his ceiling, just like the AZ job is Pasternak's ceiling.
I do not wish to see him become Cal's coach, for sure.

---

I actually think it would have been interesting to interview Kurtis as, is he not, the recruiter which landed the Rockfish class? Joe "Pele" Pasternack actually was on the braun staff after things started downward trend.

socaltownie;842302524 said:

---

Gorcey Pimping Joe "Pele" Pasternack

Ryan Gorcey ‏@RGBearTerritory 2m
For those who believe the rumors surrounding Joe Pasternack, some FREE food 4thought: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=166&f=1421&t=12807908 #CalBasketball #coachingsearch
Details

---

Is Gorcey Jewish? Just kidding.

Seriously though, this coaching search is getting really dramatic. We're hearing things from this guy, that guy; things are straight up being thrown across the room from both sides.

socaltownie;842302536 said:

---

I actually think it would have been interesting to interview Kurtis as, is he not, the recruiter which landed the Rockfish class? Joe "Pele" Pasternack actually was on the braun staff after things started downward trend.

---

What's really funny is that if he got the job god forbid...(or is stating that somehow not PC on this thread???)...he could bring in his senior advisor/assistant, Ben Braun!

:bigpuke:

(I am only half serious, but I wouldn't put it past him.....)

DrDanger;842302551 said:

---

What's really funny is that if he got the job god forbid...(or is stating that somehow not PC on this thread???)...he could bring in his senior advisor/assistant, Ben Braun!

:bigpuke:

(I am only half serious, but I wouldn't put it past him.....)

---

Even the possibility of that happening is a reason to disqualify him from consideration. :facepalm