I mean I don't think Washington State is talented enough to stay with us until the end. Is Ernie a better coach than Conzo? Is Conzo under-achieving with this roster after losses to SDSU, Seton Hall and close wins against the Washingtons. Could Conzo possibly have under-achieved last year as well with top prospect Jaylen Brown?

Ernie Kent has had a few Elite 8 trips, beyond that you get into elite coach territory.

This season has yet to play out. The previous one was quite good, save for the early exit from the tourney. We were peaking at the right time last season but poor health did us in.

fat cocoon, are you fascinating insights gleaned from actually going to cal basketball games in person or just watching tv?

But how do you know he's fat?

Cal WON! Coach Martin WON!

That is what counts. It is a W baby!

Now having said that, please consider that Pac-12 is pretty competitive and WSU has beaten both UW and OSU (I think).

One of my favorite quotes (applicable only after we win) is by Lou Holtz when he was coaching at Notre Dame and fans were complaining about Notre Dame not blowing out opponents:

"Those other guys are on scholarship too"

Go Bears!

bigcocoon007;842794157 said:

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I mean I don't think Washington State is talented enough to stay with us until the end. Is Ernie a better coach than Conzo? Is Conzo under-achieving with this roster after losses to SDSU, Seton Hall and close wins against the Washingtons. Could Conzo possibly have under-achieved last year as well with top prospect Jaylen Brown?

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I am not a huge fan of how Cuonzo coaches offense but this team is not as talented as many believe. Rabb is elite. Nobody else is elite. Moore is going to be very good, but is short and young. Bird has never lived up to his billing. He has some talent but is not an elite player. Mullins is a good (not great ) shooter and limited but has experience and plays smart and under control. Kingsley can block shots and Rooks can rebound, but neither are elite but they are both big and that is 10 fouls to use. Singer, Domingo, Coleman, Roger are all complimentary players that fill specific roles. Singer and Domingo can really help down the stretch if the play like yesterday. Contribute some offense, but defend and rebound.

This team defends well and rebounds well. Shoots poorly generally and is a very poor FT shooting team. They are a defense first team that can play with most teams if they avoid turnovers and make a few 3's. Bird has to get more consistent. Rabb is doubled almost every time. Jabari has to make teams pay with some 3's. But they do defend and that keeps them in games. Particularly at home.

This team is very well coached on the defensive side. On offense they look a lot better to me than last year's team simply because they move the ball and work the offense for good shots. They made some good halftime adjustments offensively to take advantage of the double teams on Rabb. The biggest problem I see is not hitting the shots that came from working the ball and from those adjustments. We clanked a lot of good looks yesterday, which is why the game was close imo.

bigcocoon007;842794157 said:

---

I mean I don't think Washington State is talented enough to stay with us until the end. Is Ernie a better coach than Conzo? Is Conzo under-achieving with this roster after losses to SDSU, Seton Hall and close wins against the Washingtons. Could Conzo possibly have under-achieved last year as well with top prospect Jaylen Brown?

---

6956bear;842794233 said:

---

I am not a huge fan of how Cuonzo coaches offense but this team is not as talented as many believe. Rabb is elite. Nobody else is elite. Moore is going to be very good, but is short and young. Bird has never lived up to his billing. He has some talent but is not an elite player. Mullins is a good (not great ) shooter and limited but has experience and plays smart and under control. Kingsley can block shots and Rooks can rebound, but neither are elite but they are both big and that is 10 fouls to use. Singer, Domingo, Coleman, Roger are all complimentary players that fill specific roles. Singer and Domingo can really help down the stretch if the play like yesterday. Contribute some offense, but defend and rebound.

This team defends well and rebounds well. Shoots poorly generally and is a very poor FT shooting team. They are a defense first team that can play with most teams if they avoid turnovers and make a few 3's. Bird has to get more consistent. Rabb is doubled almost every time. Jabari has to make teams pay with some 3's. But they do defend and that keeps them in games. Particularly at home.

---

This post is absolutely spot on. The only thing I could add is that Cuonzo's emphasis on defense does seem to impede his ingenuity on the offensive side. Why, I do not know. In other words he could coach up the talent level more on offense.

Good points, and to me the biggest issue is the dropoff when bench players come in. Singer and Domingo had positive impact on yesterday's game defensively and chipped in a few points, but in general the second unit has been bad with Coleman the only offensive threat (and he's only been that for a couple of games).

6956bear;842794233 said:

---

I am not a huge fan of how Cuonzo coaches offense but this team is not as talented as many believe. Rabb is elite. Nobody else is elite. Moore is going to be very good, but is short and young. Bird has never lived up to his billing. He has some talent but is not an elite player. Mullins is a good (not great ) shooter and limited but has experience and plays smart and under control. Kingsley can block shots and Rooks can rebound, but neither are elite but they are both big and that is 10 fouls to use. Singer, Domingo, Coleman, Roger are all complimentary players that fill specific roles. Singer and Domingo can really help down the stretch if the play like yesterday. Contribute some offense, but defend and rebound.

This team defends well and rebounds well. Shoots poorly generally and is a very poor FT shooting team. They are a defense first team that can play with most teams if they avoid turnovers and make a few 3's. Bird has to get more consistent. Rabb is doubled almost every time. Jabari has to make teams pay with some 3's. But they do defend and that keeps them in games. Particularly at home.

---

bluesaxe;842794282 said:

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We clanked a lot of good looks yesterday, which is why the game was close imo.

---

that is not on the coach.

WSU clanked a lot of shots, too.
Take away Flynn and I think I heard the rest of the team was 13 of 40.

calbear80;842794228 said:

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Cal WON! Coach Martin WON!

That is what counts. It is a W baby!

Now having said that, please consider that Pac-12 is pretty competitive and WSU has beaten both UW and OSU (I think).

One of my favorite quotes (applicable only after we win) is by Lou Holtz when he was coaching at Notre Dame and fans were complaining about Notre Dame not blowing out opponents:

"Those other guys are on scholarship too"

Go Bears!

---

ha! yes. Did we think they'd just lay down and die? They are living breathing people with drive, ambition, skill.

First, as others have said, Martin is not clanking good looks (which are a function of the coaching that GETS good looks)

But second this is match ups. Wazzyu can go 2 big on the front court. That negates a big part of our non-permiter offense - hi low/ double low, weak side put backs. It is telling that we did reasonably well against Washington and USC (there) and in the preseason against teams where we out size them on the front line. Sometimes not pretty but job gets done. Against teams with TWO big guys (or a really well coached Packline such as Virginia) we struggle (UCLA, Zona, Washington State).

So if you are looking ahead that bodes well for us against CU (who is very short up front); Furd but suggests that Utah will be a challenge.

Now this all isn't the case if we could hit that game where Mullins and Bird AND Moore all shoot well from the outside. It would really make teams pay for the sag double team on Ivan. But given how we shoot (or more precisely how unwell we shoot) the rock from outside it is what it is.

Watch the lines. Bears will Cover CU and Furd but probably struggle with the Utes. Hoping for a split with them, a sweep of the aforementioned BDW and being able to see if we can steal one from Oregon at Haas.

Things are OK. We are a good, not an elite team. If team takes care of business and things break right in the crap shoot of match ups I could see us getting to the second weekend in March. No Further but without Jordan and given the injuries at the start of the year that is "OK". As Shocky puts things - life is not linear. I would put it somewhat less pompously.....getting to the tournament again THIS year (2 out of 3) and putting another guy (Ivan) into the lottery is going to help with the big thing that is important to winning college basketball - Recruiting. It will also help with the other side of things - putting people into the seats at Haas. If you live in the Bay Area I just don't see why you are not making this a priority in your life - I find them fun to watch for their defense and Ivan Rabb is a singular talent that we are unlikely to see in the Bay Area for a generation. We could well get a 3rd lotto in Marcus depending on how he plays next year and I expect Kings to be drafted - though he might not stick.

socaltownie;842794394 said:

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Watch the lines. Bears will Cover CU and Furd but probably struggle with the Utes. Hoping for a split with them, a sweep of the aforementioned BDW and being able to see if we can steal one from Oregon at Haas.

---

A tall order, but Cal needs to sweep next week if they are going to make any waves this year. They could still make the tourney without it, but I doubt the seeding would be pretty.

agree with many of these comments
I would only add that their undersized PF hit 3-3 from three. He was averageing 6 pts/game
we adjusted by going small when he was in the line up and then he missed his 4th three attempt

6956bear;842794233 said:

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I am not a huge fan of how Cuonzo coaches offense but this team is not as talented as many believe. Rabb is elite. Nobody else is elite. Moore is going to be very good, but is short and young. Bird has never lived up to his billing. He has some talent but is not an elite player. Mullins is a good (not great ) shooter and limited but has experience and plays smart and under control. Kingsley can block shots and Rooks can rebound, but neither are elite but they are both big and that is 10 fouls to use. Singer, Domingo, Coleman, Roger are all complimentary players that fill specific roles. Singer and Domingo can really help down the stretch if the play like yesterday. Contribute some offense, but defend and rebound.

This team defends well and rebounds well. Shoots poorly generally and is a very poor FT shooting team. They are a defense first team that can play with most teams if they avoid turnovers and make a few 3's. Bird has to get more consistent. Rabb is doubled almost every time. Jabari has to make teams pay with some 3's. But they do defend and that keeps them in games. Particularly at home.

---

I find your analysis a little overly negative. Wouldn't a similar analysis of the National Championship Bears team be even worse? I'm flag waving for Don Coleman these days, and hoping his injury does not crimp the "missing piece" team improvement I think he brought. I think it is particularly true that Cuonzo teaches defense first; and I think it's for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it's largely true that, with defense, you always have a chance. But Coleman's addition to the team chemistry (against good teams), plus the clear command of offensive issues Cuonzo's speech reveals, indicates to me that Cuonzo felt it was necessary to build a program to focus on defense first - although I think that stating that offense will come along by itself is a philosophical mistake. But maybe the point for me is that, in this quintessentially human activity, growth, development, learning (by all concerned, including the coach) is what is meaningful, which is why Cuonzo's character is so important, because it gives cause to believe (and I think the dynamics of the results are beginning to bear this out - pun intended) that he's building something here which is worth investing in - and, hopefully and apparently, doing it in such a way as NOT to lead to an early grave (which forced Pete Newell out of the game), but in a way that leads, not only to greater success on the court, but to what Shocky likes to characterize as 50-year decision-making on the part of the student-athletes (and, one would hope, on the part of their fan base as well -- I think we all have something to learn from Cuonzo).

Sounds about right. Mullins and Moore are pretty good outside shooters, but both need open looks--Mullins because his release isn't the quickest in the world, and Charlie because he is vertically challenged. Bird, unfortunately, is really streaky, and lately there have been some bad streaks. If 2 of the three are hot on a given night, Cal can be a load, because there isn't anyone in the league who can consistently guard Ivan 1 on 1.

I'm pretty sure there's a place in the league for Kingsley if he continues to improve his court awareness and passing. Big men who can board and block shots and also pass well are especially important in today's NBA where most teams are moving away from post offense.

<SIGH>

Lets break it down this way to help some of you get the "why do we look so awful on the offensive end"

Lets say I wanted to put my BEST offensive team out there.

Ivan
Bird
Mullins
Moore
Coleman
(BTW - we do run that sometimes but for very short periods and when the match ups work)

The problem with this line up is that I give up a ton of rim protection. Indeed, I put my best guy at the 5 on an island, where he is likely to start picking up fouls early and often. I am undersized at the 4 which would suggest another smart move would be to pull Ivan away from the rim (dirbble hand offs and/or getting a stretch four in the game) and thus letting their big go to work on Bird. Best case he comes away ok on that....worse he just gets back downs and they score.

So we make some changes - ones which Martin favors because he believes defense is the most important.

We bring in Kings/Rooks. Both good guys but are never going to be 20 points a game kind of guys this year. Maybe _MAYBE_ next but not this year.
We bring in Sam to play the 2 so that we don't have a bigger guard posting up Moore/Coleman. Again, defense over offense
When Ivan needs to take a breather we either bring in BOTH kings and Rooks (again making for offensive woes) OR we bring in Roger/Domingo.

Again, play this out. Put your BEST 5 offense on the floor and see the problems. Or stop bitching and tell me what he should be running with our best defensive group that he ISN"T running. I just don't see it

(again, this isn't idiot Braun passing it around the permeter 30 feet away with no offensive ideas at ALL. We run a TON of pick and rolls and ball screens. That isn't an ineffective offense).

Kings
Ivan
Bird
Coleman/Mullins
Moore

Go!Bears;842794369 said:

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that is not on the coach.

---

I'd like to agree with that; but I can envision drills/teaching/focus/etc. on dealing with contested shots, finishing through traffic, etc. -- There's a lot to learn there; and a lot I've seen a lot of players learn - some, of course, like Charlie are already well along on that path. But I think it's just too easy to attribute all of that clanging to the basketball gods.

I'm inclined to believe that the phenomenon of missing (and, for that matter, also not taking) shots that are too open is related to the mental mini-panic of having your shot affected by opposition -- too much mental interference in the process (same process involved in clanking freethrows). I've noticed, for example, that Klay Thompson seems to have dealt with this in an extraordinary way. Although he is quintessentially a catch and shoot guy, when he's that open, HE STOPS and re-sets; and he looks to me to do the same thing BEFORE EVERY FREETHROW.

This process (especially for natural shooters, and Bird and Domingo are reputed to be) reminds me of a situation that happened to a friend of mine when he was a kid (athletic and particularly flexible). So, when his brother took up Yoga, this kid, wanting to show his brother up, easily got into the position with both heels behind his head. BUT THEN, for whatever reason, the idea cropped into this head that it might be difficult to get out of that position; and he froze - - - - - - - so much that the ambulance had to be called to get him out of it.

I don't think it's impossible for any of the guys to learn how to get past that point. As 6956 suggests, the elite guys (who, in my mind, are Ivan and Charlie) have already learned how to deal with those monsters and are well along the path. I also think that something of that insight had to have been playing a part in Coleman's transformation (to overcome the increased pressures that separated him from his previously-demonstrated abilities that made him a star on the JUCO level), and I see no reason why that won't continue (from the point at which he gets back to pre-injury status); and I do believe that most of the rest of the guys can undergo the same process, which process involves a certain insight in the nature of a revelation which, by its nature, creates sudden improvement.

So, what is this team's ceiling? If Coleman is back to pre-injury status at that time, I think that the Oregon game will be major in making that determination, because (a) they probably haven't been confronted with the level of intensity of which our defense is capable (especially with Coleman really functioning in it - again as that missing piece), and (b) we match up pretty well with them.

And, if Coleman is really not 100%, then it is conceivable to me that, despite its apparently unlikelihood, Sam and/or Steve could be granted that big-time step-up moment in time for that game - not to mention, of course, Jabari Bird, who we know has all the physical tools and basketball IQ to be elite, if he can defeat whatever holds him back from time to time.

mikecohen;842794475 said:

---

I'd like to agree with that; but I can envision drills/teaching/focus/etc. on dealing with contested shots, finishing through traffic, etc. -- There's a lot to learn there; and a lot I've seen a lot of players learn - some, of course, like Charlie are already well along on that path. But I think it's just too easy to attribute all of that clanging to the basketball gods.

I'm inclined to believe that the phenomenon of missing (and, for that matter, also not taking) shots that are too open is related to the mental mini-panic of having your shot affected by opposition -- too much mental interference in the process (same process involved in clanking freethrows). I've noticed, for example, that Klay Thompson seems to have dealt with this in an extraordinary way. Although he is quintessentially a catch and shoot guy, when he's that open, HE STOPS and re-sets; and he looks to me to do the same thing BEFORE EVERY FREETHROW.

This process (especially for natural shooters, and Bird and Domingo are reputed to be) reminds me of a situation that happened to a friend of mine when he was a kid (athletic and particularly flexible). So, when his brother took up Yoga, this kid, wanting to show his brother up, easily got into the position with both heels behind his head. BUT THEN, for whatever reason, the idea cropped into this head that it might be difficult to get out of that position; and he froze - - - - - - - so much that the ambulance had to be called to get him out of it.

I don't think it's impossible for any of the guys to learn how to get past that point. As 6956 suggests, the elite guys (who, in my mind, are Ivan and Charlie) have already learned how to deal with those monsters and are well along the path. I also think that something of that insight had to have been playing a part in Coleman's transformation (to overcome the increased pressures that separated him from his previously-demonstrated abilities that made him a star on the JUCO level), and I see no reason why that won't continue (from the point at which he gets back to pre-injury status); and I do believe that most of the rest of the guys can undergo the same process, which process involves a certain insight in the nature of a revelation which, by its nature, creates sudden improvement.

So, what is this team's ceiling? If Coleman is back to pre-injury status at that time, I think that the Oregon game will be major in making that determination, because (a) they probably haven't been confronted with the level of intensity of which our defense is capable (especially with Coleman really functioning in it - again as that missing piece), and (b) we match up pretty well with them.

And, if Coleman is really not 100%, then it is conceivable to me that, despite its apparently unlikelihood, Sam and/or Steve could be granted that big-time step-up moment in time for that game - not to mention, of course, Jabari Bird, who we know has all the physical tools and basketball IQ to be elite, if he can defeat whatever holds him back from time to time.

---

Oregon is playing the best basketball in the conference right now, which is saying something because UCLA and Arizona are playing at a high level, as well. Oregon has the best Offensive and Defensive Efficiency in conference games so far. Oregon and Arizona have performed better than Cal on D, in fact. Cal, which is 3rd in Defensive Efficiency in conference games, is about 9.3 points per 100 possessions worse Oregon and 8.3 behind Arizona. A lot of fans here are confident we'll compete with them or even beat them at their place, but we've got to step our play up significantly to do that.

And this talk about Coleman being an x-factor and the key to the season is a bit premature at this time. Perhaps he can be that, but it'll take more than 2 good games. Obviously, if he can provide scoring, he brings value to this team, which has an offense rated in the 150's on KenPom as we speak. Coleman has the worst defensive rating on the team of any player that has over 100 minutes, so his impact defensively isn't exactly replaceable on this team. That said, he does have upside on that end with his solid athleticism.

What befuddles me is that Singer's PT has declined sharply in the last 4 games after playing an average of 28 mpg in previous games. He has the third best Defensive Rating on the team and is one of three guards in the Top 10 in the conference (Kadeem Allen and Dylan Ennis are the others). He brings a lot to the table other than scoring, which is why I think it's short-sighted to limit his role. That said, I understand the increase in Coleman's role if he can continue to score. And obviously Moore's scoring ability dictates his PT and Mullins is our best shooter, which is why he has to be out there.

tsubamoto2001;842794485 said:

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Oregon is playing the best basketball in the conference right now, which is saying something because UCLA and Arizona are playing at a high level, as well. Oregon has the best Offensive and Defensive Efficiency in conference games so far. Oregon and Arizona have performed better than Cal on D, in fact. Cal, which is 3rd in Defensive Efficiency in conference games, is about 9.3 points per 100 possessions worse Oregon and 8.3 behind Arizona. A lot of fans here are confident we'll compete with them or even beat them at their place, but we've got to step our play up significantly to do that.

---

Hope springs eternal...

bluesaxe;842794288 said:

---

Good points, and to me the biggest issue is the dropoff when bench players come in. Singer and Domingo had positive impact on yesterday's game defensively and chipped in a few points, but in general the second unit has been bad with Coleman the only offensive threat (and he's only been that for a couple of games).

---

I agree. It's why I think, despite Singer's reported request to the contrary, that Sam should start and Mullins should come off the bench for his shooting.

tsubamoto2001;842794485 said:

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Oregon is playing the best basketball in the conference right now, which is saying something because UCLA and Arizona are playing at a high level, as well. Oregon has the best Offensive and Defensive Efficiency in conference games so far. Oregon and Arizona have performed better than Cal on D, in fact. Cal, which is 3rd in Defensive Efficiency in conference games, is about 9.3 points per 100 possessions worse Oregon and 8.3 behind Arizona. A lot of fans here are confident we'll compete with them or even beat them at their place, but we've got to step our play up significantly to do that.

And this talk about Coleman being an x-factor and the key to the season is a bit premature at this time. Perhaps he can be that, but it'll take more than 2 good games. Obviously, if he can provide scoring, he brings value to this team, which has an offense rated in the 150's on KenPom as we speak. Coleman has the worst defensive rating on the team of any player that has over 100 minutes, so his impact defensively isn't exactly replaceable on this team. That said, he does have upside on that end with his solid athleticism.

What befuddles me is that Singer's PT has declined sharply in the last 4 games after playing an average of 28 mpg in previous games. He has the third best Defensive Rating on the team and is one of three guards in the Top 10 in the conference (Kadeem Allen and Dylan Ennis are the others). He brings a lot to the table other than scoring, which is why I think it's short-sighted to limit his role. That said, I understand the increase in Coleman's role if he can continue to score. And obviously Moore's scoring ability dictates his PT and Mullins is our best shooter, which is why he has to be out there.

---

Conference stats are near meaningless until you have played everyone. Cal has played UCLA & Arizona (and the lets get it up and down Washington and ASU Teams). Oregon has seen Oregon state - a team they limited to 43. Lets talk after this weekend (or ideally at the turn).

6956bear;842794233 said:

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I am not a huge fan of how Cuonzo coaches offense but this team is not as talented as many believe. Rabb is elite. Nobody else is elite. Moore is going to be very good, but is short and young. Bird has never lived up to his billing. He has some talent but is not an elite player. Mullins is a good (not great ) shooter and limited but has experience and plays smart and under control. Kingsley can block shots and Rooks can rebound, but neither are elite but they are both big and that is 10 fouls to use. Singer, Domingo, Coleman, Roger are all complimentary players that fill specific roles. Singer and Domingo can really help down the stretch if the play like yesterday. Contribute some offense, but defend and rebound.

This team defends well and rebounds well. Shoots poorly generally and is a very poor FT shooting team. They are a defense first team that can play with most teams if they avoid turnovers and make a few 3's. Bird has to get more consistent. Rabb is doubled almost every time. Jabari has to make teams pay with some 3's. But they do defend and that keeps them in games. Particularly at home.

---

Pretty much spot-on, though Cal has enough talent to be beating teams like SD State and Seton Hall. Injuries played a part but the talent sans Mathews is not on a par with the top teams in the conference.

When Sam is playing "not to fail" and he attacks the rim, he is outstanding. Virginia game - our best player on the court. So Cal trip, he reverted to being passive. I believe the team is at their best when he plays aggressive (his drive and dish is the best on the team). He also gets the ball into Raab effectively, while both Bird and Moore tend to hesitate some. Coach tends to be more comfortable/longer lease with players he has brought in (common among coaches). Sam is a fairly big guard who is generally very effective defensively and rebounding - more so than our other guards. it will continue to be "by committee" since Moore is brilliant at times, tends to take lower percentage/forced shots occasionally and can be exploited defensively. I agree with several of the posts about Coach Martin, he is building character, accountability and toughness within the program. I have seen first hand his expectations, his leadership and his commitment in all areas. We are fortunate to have him. His day starts never later than 5am and every player checks in with him and knows their responsibilities on and off the court.

Quote from above posted by tsubamoto2001 : "What befuddles me is that Singer's PT has declined sharply in the last 4 games after playing an average of 28 mpg in previous games. He has the third best Defensive Rating on the team and is one of three guards in the Top 10 in the conference (Kadeem Allen and Dylan Ennis are the others). He brings a lot to the table other than scoring, which is why I think it's short-sighted to limit his role. That said, I understand the increase in Coleman's role if he can continue to score. And obviously Moore's scoring ability dictates his PT and Mullins is our best shooter, which is why he has to be out there."

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Sam asked the coach to replace him in the starting lineup with Grant. It was an unselfish move on Sam's part, but I imagine his minutes would more than likely go down if he is not starting.

TexWoody;842794791 said:

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Quote from above posted by tsubamoto2001 : "What befuddles me is that Singer's PT has declined sharply in the last 4 games after playing an average of 28 mpg in previous games. He has the third best Defensive Rating on the team and is one of three guards in the Top 10 in the conference (Kadeem Allen and Dylan Ennis are the others). He brings a lot to the table other than scoring, which is why I think it's short-sighted to limit his role. That said, I understand the increase in Coleman's role if he can continue to score. And obviously Moore's scoring ability dictates his PT and Mullins is our best shooter, which is why he has to be out there."

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Sam asked the coach to replace him in the starting lineup with Grant. It was an unselfish move on Sam's part, but I imagine his minutes would more than likely go down if he is not starting.

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2-3 games ago the color guys noted that Sam's reasoning was that Grant is best if he gets a rhytem going on his jump shot and that was easier if he was in at the start and Sam would come in for a spark. I get that thinking and honestly agree.

TexWoody;842794791 said:

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Quote from above posted by tsubamoto2001 : "What befuddles me is that Singer's PT has declined sharply in the last 4 games after playing an average of 28 mpg in previous games. He has the third best Defensive Rating on the team and is one of three guards in the Top 10 in the conference (Kadeem Allen and Dylan Ennis are the others). He brings a lot to the table other than scoring, which is why I think it's short-sighted to limit his role. That said, I understand the increase in Coleman's role if he can continue to score. And obviously Moore's scoring ability dictates his PT and Mullins is our best shooter, which is why he has to be out there."

---

Sam asked the coach to replace him in the starting lineup with Grant. It was an unselfish move on Sam's part, but I imagine his minutes would more than likely go down if he is not starting.

---

Yep - Sam is team first, but his minutes have literally been cut in half and like any competitor, that is very tough to take. This team is simply better when Sam is playing 20+ minutes AND he is being aggressive. His experience and leadership are unmatched on the team. Moore will be a leader in future years and for brief periods can carry the team. However the team shines when the ball is passed into Raab "When he wants/has position" and also when we penetrate and kick. Sam does this better than anyone. Granted he has been hesitant on occasion - more out of fear of failure and letting down the team. This team needs Sam on the court for extended minutes to make the tourney. We are literally a bubble team and will be up to and thru the league championship tournament. its tough for him since when he makes mistakes, his lease is much shorter than Charlie and Grant. Basketball is gaining confidence and rhythm on the court and cutting minutes, just increases the difficulty of achieving that needed level of confidence. Hopefully he will be given increased minutes to impact the team's performance.

4thGenCal;842794802 said:

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Sam asked the coach to replace him in the starting lineup with Grant. It was an unselfish move on Sam's part, but I imagine his minutes would more than likely go down if he is not starting.

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Yep - Sam is team first, but his minutes have literally been cut in half and like any competitor, that is very tough to take. This team is simply better when Sam is playing 20+ minutes AND he is being aggressive. His experience and leadership are unmatched on the team. Moore will be a leader in future years and for brief periods can carry the team. However the team shines when the ball is passed into Raab "When he wants/has position" and also when we penetrate and kick. Sam does this better than anyone. Granted he has been hesitant on occasion - more out of fear of failure and letting down the team. This team needs Sam on the court for extended minutes to make the tourney. We are literally a bubble team and will be up to and thru the league championship tournament. its tough for him since when he makes mistakes, his lease is much shorter than Charlie and Grant. Basketball is gaining confidence and rhythm on the court and cutting minutes, just increases the difficulty of achieving that needed level of confidence. Hopefully he will be given increased minutes to impact the team's performance.

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+1

Defense travels and can be a big factor when the offense struggles on the road. Cal is not on the talent level of UCLA, Arizona or Oregon. Some of the other teams might have more scorers than Cal and can go off at times but don't have the defense. Cal's offense is what it is, and with either Okoroh or Rooks in it is effectively reduced to 4 players. Against WSU they were in at the same time so there were only 3 scorers then. It's probably safe to say that Cal will lose a game or games to teams they should not lose to; can they win against one of the Big Three? Or Big Two, since they don't play UCLA again except perhaps in the tourney. It's a long shot but they could beat Oregon up there; I worry about the OSU game, as they are clearly a bad team and a loss there would be crippling.

Singers reduction in minutes has coincided with Coleman's emergence.

I think our best offensive 5 should exclude Coleman and include Singer. Coleman may be a more aggressive player than Singer on the offensive end, but no one in the above lineup is going to distribute the ball to open shooters. Coleman basically looks for his own shot on a drive, or circulates the ball around. And he's a horrendous shooter, even compared to Sam. Moore is a good shooter, but he also drives purely create his own shot.

As a matter of fact, one of the biggest problems with our offense is that, just like last year, our staff has tried to solve scoring issues by putting in more selfish offensive players over distributors. When Moore and Coleman drive to the basket, a shot is going up, and more than half the time it's a missed shot/turnover leading to a fast break because our fastest players are now under the basket with no chance of slowing down the ball going the other way.

Californication;842794924 said:

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As a matter of fact, one of the biggest problems with our offense is that, just like last year, our staff has tried to solve scoring issues by putting in more selfish offensive players over distributors. When Moore and Coleman drive to the basket, a shot is going up, and more than half the time it's a missed shot/turnover leading to a fast break because our fastest players are now under the basket with no chance of slowing down the ball going the other way.

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I think it is pretty clear at this point it is the Coach's offensive strategy to get the ball up on the rim. He even sad he would prefer that over a tough interior pass. To call someone that is following the coach's strategy as selfish seems odd to me.

I think the point is more that the offense was generating open shots for players, which is what you want an offense to do. And since the OP was critical of the head coach's offensive accumen, it seemed a fair point. Skills coaching, individual coaching, those are different aspects of coaching. Sure, players can get better. But That's more a function of listening to what coaches have to say about your shot and then working on it in the offseason. There's limited time for practice in college ball and while I can envision all sorts of drills these guys also have to go to school.

I think one major issue is that we don't have very many good shooters. Mullins is steady as catch and shoot guy, not so much off the dribble (his three point percentage is 19 points higher than his overall shooting percentage). Singer isn't a good shooter and passes up shots he probably should still take. Coleman's shot looks pretty bad except for the occasional corner three. Domingo's shot is just broken. Moore and Bird are shooters, but Moore is struggling with decision making as a freshman PG (understandable, and he's trying to do it right), while Bird gets too passive. Maybe some of the reluctance to shoot has to do with the idea of a deliberate offense, I don't know. But you can see the lack of shooters in the free throw percentages as well.

I'm less impressed with Coleman than some. I think he's easy to defend now that people have seen his game. He's going to the hoop, probably the left side, and he's highly unlikely to pull up for a jumper or to pass the ball to take advantage of a collapsing defense. I expect him to have more problems as time goes on unless he makes adjustments. Hopefully the optimists are right about him.

mikecohen;842794475 said:

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I'd like to agree with that; but I can envision drills/teaching/focus/etc. on dealing with contested shots, finishing through traffic, etc. -- There's a lot to learn there; and a lot I've seen a lot of players learn - some, of course, like Charlie are already well along on that path. But I think it's just too easy to attribute all of that clanging to the basketball gods.

I'm inclined to believe that the phenomenon of missing (and, for that matter, also not taking) shots that are too open is related to the mental mini-panic of having your shot affected by opposition -- too much mental interference in the process (same process involved in clanking freethrows). I've noticed, for example, that Klay Thompson seems to have dealt with this in an extraordinary way. Although he is quintessentially a catch and shoot guy, when he's that open, HE STOPS and re-sets; and he looks to me to do the same thing BEFORE EVERY FREETHROW.

This process (especially for natural shooters, and Bird and Domingo are reputed to be) reminds me of a situation that happened to a friend of mine when he was a kid (athletic and particularly flexible). So, when his brother took up Yoga, this kid, wanting to show his brother up, easily got into the position with both heels behind his head. BUT THEN, for whatever reason, the idea cropped into this head that it might be difficult to get out of that position; and he froze - - - - - - - so much that the ambulance had to be called to get him out of it.

I don't think it's impossible for any of the guys to learn how to get past that point. As 6956 suggests, the elite guys (who, in my mind, are Ivan and Charlie) have already learned how to deal with those monsters and are well along the path. I also think that something of that insight had to have been playing a part in Coleman's transformation (to overcome the increased pressures that separated him from his previously-demonstrated abilities that made him a star on the JUCO level), and I see no reason why that won't continue (from the point at which he gets back to pre-injury status); and I do believe that most of the rest of the guys can undergo the same process, which process involves a certain insight in the nature of a revelation which, by its nature, creates sudden improvement.

So, what is this team's ceiling? If Coleman is back to pre-injury status at that time, I think that the Oregon game will be major in making that determination, because (a) they probably haven't been confronted with the level of intensity of which our defense is capable (especially with Coleman really functioning in it - again as that missing piece), and (b) we match up pretty well with them.

And, if Coleman is really not 100%, then it is conceivable to me that, despite its apparently unlikelihood, Sam and/or Steve could be granted that big-time step-up moment in time for that game - not to mention, of course, Jabari Bird, who we know has all the physical tools and basketball IQ to be elite, if he can defeat whatever holds him back from time to time.

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