Ivy League coaches blow. Craig Robinson, Steve Donahue, sweet 16 at Cornell to disaster at BC. Amaker should stay at Harvard until he's 100

Dick kutchen

ducky23;842821319 said:

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Shaw then went on to Denver, and it was admittedly bad. There was just a huge disconnect between him and the Denver players. I'm sure a lot of that was on shaw. No way of sugar coating that.

So look, you want to say that the guy can only be an assistant and doesn't have the chops to be a head coach, fine. Feel free. That's your opinion. And I promise you there are several front office people in the NBA who disagree with you.

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His tenure with Denver was more than just bad - it was a dumpster fire. You won't see him get an NBA job again, no matter what these mythical unnamed "NBA front office people" say.

Whether he'd be interested in a college job remains to be seen, but I wouldn't see him being the type that would adjust well.

BearNecessities;842822493 said:

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His tenure with Denver was more than just bad - it was a dumpster fire. You won't see him get an NBA job again, no matter what these mythical unnamed "NBA front office people" say.

Whether he'd be interested in a college job remains to be seen, but I wouldn't see him being the type that would adjust well.

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Yeah I don't see Shaw. What does he bring that others do not. He is sorta a jack of all trades, master of none on the dimensions that matter.

Again, I am on the Gates train. If you are going to hire a guy that is an assistant and it comes down to him vs. Pasternack I think you go with the Sherrif.

But who knows - maybe they will rock our world and hire Gregg Marshall and make Shocky do handstands every game ;-)

dennis gates or wyking jones for me

CalHoopFan;842821671 said:

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Couple of thoughts:

- Pasternak, Musselman and Shaw will all get strong consideration
- Almost unheard of for a P5 school to hire someone who has never been a HC in basketball. Gap between HC and assistants in basketball is HUGE. This is not football
- Recruiting acumen >> X's and O's for our AD. Attendance, donations and interest in basketball are FAR higher now than under Monty.
- We want someone who is West Coast centric. Someone who wants to be at Cal and someone who is humble and flexible enough to deal with Cal's unique approach to revenue sports
- Randy Bennett is not a Cal guy. Relationship to donors, public persona, NCAA violations all prevent him from being our HC

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I'd take these thoughts more seriously except that it's coming from a guy who genuinely thought that Jay Wright was a realistic target that would want to come to Cal when Monty took the job.

BearNecessities;842822508 said:

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I'd take these thoughts more seriously except that it's coming from a guy who genuinely thought that Jay Wright was a realistic target that would want to come to Cal when Monty took the job.

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Now that Villanova has been eliminated, Wright is free to sign with Cal now.

Traits I'd like to see for our next coach:

- Ability to design an offense/defense that will fit our personnel
- A game day coach ... who can scheme for an opponent, and can manage the game, make adjustments, etc
- A players coach, who can recruit
- Someone with the right personality to engage the fans, alumni, donors, administration - a good example of this is Rick Neuheisel who coached UCLA football 5 years ago. He is smooth, likable, natural and sincere

calgo430;842822502 said:

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dennis gates or wyking jones for me

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Just because the reports of their Character, and their Basketball Intelligence and Knowledge, are so extraordinarily glowing, and because the likelihood of their understanding the extraordinary dynamics, both at this university and in the Bay Area, the names of (in no particular order) those two guys, Theo Robertson (especially after what Steve Kerr just had to say about him), Justin Labagh, Richard Midgely, and Lou Ritchie, carry a lot of magic.

tydog;842819872 said:

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You didn't like the Dykes firing and Wilcox hiring? That gives me hope.

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Exactly. I'd be good with Bennett. But, I'd love the Return of the Sheriff. Or another Cal Family member.

Big C_Cal;842822340 said:

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What evidence is there that Gates would be a good Head Coach?

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This is what people used to ask when we would suggest Ron Rivera--we need to take chances on guys that have paid their dues, seem to have the right stuff and who if they succeed would be loyal to Cal rather than use Cal as a stepping stone--because that is the problem with other guys you take a chance on--either they fail and get fired or succeed and leave.

calumnus;842822551 said:

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This is what people used to ask when we would suggest Ron Rivera--we need to take chances on guys that have paid their dues, seem to have the right stuff and who if they succeed would be loyal to Cal rather than use Cal as a stepping stone--because that is the problem with other guys you take a chance on--either they fail and get fired or succeed and leave.

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+lots

SFBearz;842822357 said:

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NBA ties make someone an elite college coach? Again, no evidence Shaw can coach and could be a disaster.

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If you're looking for imprical evidence with play breakdowns, this probably isn't thr forum for it, nor do I have it. I base my opinion that he can coach on him being Phil Jackson's top assistant and being an assistant on an Championship team, and then spending the next 7 years as an Associate Head Coach and Head Coach in the highest level of basketball in the world. That he is widely respected as a tactician throughout the NBA is evidence enough for me that he knows his X's and O's.

The run in Denver didn't work out, but they did lose his best player Iguodala as soon as he got there and the story is that he lost the locker room from criticizing too much publicly. Lesson learned, hopefully, but obviously a bit of a concern. In college, the players have much less weight to throw around vs new coach criticizing guys on 5 year contracts making 5 times as much as the coach. Different skill set to motivate that type of player, and not every excellent coach is good at it. Fred Hoiberg is another more recent example of an outstanding college coach who has run into a lot of the same issues in Chi that Shaw ran into in Denver. If Chicago fired Hoiberg, would you say you don't want him at Cal? Obviously not, because he's had his run as a HC at Iowa St and I think Shaw would have a similar impact on a program in college to what Hoiberg had done in college previously.

Just curious, hasn't burrito been brought up in a 27-page thread?

The list of candidates I've seen is by far the most pathetic list of coaching candidates for MBB I have ever seen. I wouldn't hire any of them. I don't see any hope for this program of even getting to the NCAA tournament much less actually becoming a good program at this rate. Welcome to permanent Oregon State status.

Mike Cohen,
"Just because the reports of their Character, and their Basketball Intelligence and Knowledge, are so extraordinarily glowing, and because the likelihood of their understanding the extraordinary dynamics, both at this university and in the Bay Area, the names of (in no particular order) those two guys, Theo Robertson (especially after what Steve Kerr just had to say about him), Justin Labagh, Richard Midgely, and Lou Ritchie, carry a lot of magic."

What wered Steve Kerr's recent comments about Theo Robertson

Gates, Wyking, Richie and Robertson represent an staff with tactical experience, great recruiting chops and deep California roots - Make it happen

Jclay09;842822565 said:

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If you're looking for imprical evidence with play breakdowns, this probably isn't thr forum for it, nor do I have it. I base my opinion that he can coach on him being Phil Jackson's top assistant and being an assistant on an Championship team, and then spending the next 7 years as an Associate Head Coach and Head Coach in the highest level of basketball in the world. That he is widely respected as a tactician throughout the NBA is evidence enough for me that he knows his X's and O's.

The run in Denver didn't work out, but they did lose his best player Iguodala as soon as he got there and the story is that he lost the locker room from criticizing too much publicly. Lesson learned, hopefully, but obviously a bit of a concern. In college, the players have much less weight to throw around vs new coach criticizing guys on 5 year contracts making 5 times as much as the coach. Different skill set to motivate that type of player, and not every excellent coach is good at it. Fred Hoiberg is another more recent example of an outstanding college coach who has run into a lot of the same issues in Chi that Shaw ran into in Denver. If Chicago fired Hoiberg, would you say you don't want him at Cal? Obviously not, because he's had his run as a HC at Iowa St and I think Shaw would have a similar impact on a program in college to what Hoiberg had done in college previously.

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I agree with this. Probably the only concern is whether he could deal with recruiting (i.e. the ass-kissing and soforth that goes with it)

Uthaithani;842822575 said:

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The list of candidates I've seen is by far the most pathetic list of coaching candidates for MBB I have ever seen. I wouldn't hire any of them. I don't see any hope for this program of even getting to the NCAA tournament much less actually becoming a good program at this rate. Welcome to permanent Oregon State status.

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Yeah they're pretty underwhelming and/or complete gambles. Has anyone mentioned Chris Collins? He seems to be on the verge of building something big at Northwestern. Gets the academic side

Jclay09;842822565 said:

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If you're looking for imprical evidence with play breakdowns, this probably isn't thr forum for it, nor do I have it. I base my opinion that he can coach on him being Phil Jackson's top assistant and being an assistant on an Championship team, and then spending the next 7 years as an Associate Head Coach and Head Coach in the highest level of basketball in the world. That he is widely respected as a tactician throughout the NBA is evidence enough for me that he knows his X's and O's.

The run in Denver didn't work out, but they did lose his best player Iguodala as soon as he got there and the story is that he lost the locker room from criticizing too much publicly. Lesson learned, hopefully, but obviously a bit of a concern. In college, the players have much less weight to throw around vs new coach criticizing guys on 5 year contracts making 5 times as much as the coach. Different skill set to motivate that type of player, and not every excellent coach is good at it. Fred Hoiberg is another more recent example of an outstanding college coach who has run into a lot of the same issues in Chi that Shaw ran into in Denver. If Chicago fired Hoiberg, would you say you don't want him at Cal? Obviously not, because he's had his run as a HC at Iowa St and I think Shaw would have a similar impact on a program in college to what Hoiberg had done in college previously.

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And lets remember, Monty's stint in the NBA was awesome and he had no communication problems with his players, AT ALL!!!

calumnus;842822551 said:

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This is what people used to ask when we would suggest Ron Rivera--we need to take chances on guys that have paid their dues, seem to have the right stuff and who if they succeed would be loyal to Cal rather than use Cal as a stepping stone--because that is the problem with other guys you take a chance on--either they fail and get fired or succeed and leave.

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Or a coach (CM) does not succeed (no post season wins in 3 years) and leaves...

calumnus;842822551 said:

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This is what people used to ask when we would suggest Ron Rivera--we need to take chances on guys that have paid their dues, seem to have the right stuff and who if they succeed would be loyal to Cal rather than use Cal as a stepping stone--because that is the problem with other guys you take a chance on--either they fail and get fired or succeed and leave.

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Calling it right now (yeah, delusional). Milwaukee Bucks season ends either April 12th or around April 20th after they get run by Cleveland/Boston. We make the hire of the century.

socaltownie;842822598 said:

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Calling it right now (yeah, delusional). Milwaukee Bucks season ends either April 12th or around April 20th after they get run by Cleveland/Boston. We make the hire of the century.

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Doubly delusional, to imagine Kidd is some great coach and a man of character...

ducky23;842822581 said:

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And lets remember, Monty's stint in the NBA was awesome and he had no communication problems with his players, AT ALL!!!

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Monty had proven he was was an elite college coach at Furd before any of that even happened.

tsubamoto2001;842822612 said:

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Monty had proven he was was an elite college coach at Furd before any of that even happened.

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yeah exactly. its possible to be an elite college coach and fail at the NBA level

to be clear, i think Shaw's denver stint is concerning, but not disqualifying.

south bender;842822609 said:

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Doubly delusional, to imagine Kidd is some great coach and a man of character...

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I think that is unfair. Kidd clearly can coach. He isn't good at picking GMs. And while I am not going to defend the Jason of his late 20s I think that the record shows that as he has matured a better Jason Kidd has emerged.

socaltownie;842822624 said:

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I think that is unfair. Kidd clearly can coach. He isn't good at picking GMs. And while I am not going to defend the Jason of his late 20s I think that the record shows that as he has matured a better Jason Kidd has emerged.

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SCT, unless you know him personally, have seen him with his wife when no media and anyone else are around (an impossibility), I don't know why you would vouch for him.

Look, I don't mean to damn him forever, but how "better" Jason is right now, who knows?

south bender;842822645 said:

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SCT, unless you know him personally, have seen him with his wife when no media and anyone else are around (an impossibility), I don't know why you would vouch for him.

Look, I don't mean to damn him forever, but how "better" Jason is right now, who knows?

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Well of course we don't know but he is under a miscroscope.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/19596/history-of-jason-kidds-past-incidents

tsubamoto2001;842822612 said:

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Monty had proven he was was an elite college coach at Furd before any of that even happened.

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Monty took a flyer. If the job had been anyplace like the Warriors, he never would have taken it. He had the opportunity, and probably figured he'd be kicking himself not to at least see if what he did in college could translate to the pros. It didn't, which was lucky for Cal. No shame that he didn't make it in the pros. I don't think Don Nelson could have won in college, and he would probably have eventually been bounced for punching a player in a scotch-fueled rage.

socaltownie;842822676 said:

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Well of course we don't know but he is under a miscroscope.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/19596/history-of-jason-kidds-past-incidents

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Your cited article is almost 3 years old, so it hardly shows that Jason is "under a microscope." Moreover, I am suggesting, quite the contrary, that we do not know about Jason and his alleged rehabilitation without impossible private scrutiny. I do not mean to condemn the guy, but to vouch for him as a contrite and reformed man, I won't do it.

Does it matter on Kidd? He's making $6M/year and doesn't have a degree. He's not going to be the next BB coach.

philbert;842822690 said:

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Does it matter on Kidd? He's making $6M/year and doesn't have a degree. He's not going to be the next BB coach.

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No, it doesn't.

Just another example of irrelevant debates that amuse some of us, perhaps at the expense of others of us.

Detailed analysis here from earlier this past weekend.

http://www.knbr.com/2017/03/18/maquinana-two-clear-candidates-stand-out-in-cal-basketball-coaching-search/

CGB2813;842822724 said:

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Detailed analysis here from earlier this past weekend.

http://www.knbr.com/2017/03/18/maquinana-two-clear-candidates-stand-out-in-cal-basketball-coaching-search/

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that's about as good a summary you are going to get from someone from the bay area media. I feel like a lot of that was lifted from both BI and CGB

ducky23;842822733 said:

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that's about as good a summary you are going to get from someone from the bay area media. I feel like a lot of that was lifted from both BI and CGB

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Ryan is a former Cal basketball manager from the early 2000's. He knows Gates and Pasternack.