socaltownie;842821277 said:
And there is another video. Watch Miller Bush league call TO in the conference semi-final against UCLA. The other Zona coaches look embarassed. Josh P. is yucking it up like it is HYSTERICAL.
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18881203
Watching it again he is the one that starts signaling. Seriously. People want HIM to represent Cal??????
ducky23;842821274 said:
My dream scenario is Brian Shaw with Theo as his top assistant. You're basically getting a 2 for 1. Its like the best of both worlds for those who want either Theo or Gates (cause the main concern with either of those are experience right? So with Shaw at the helm, you have someone with vast experience showing Theo the ropes and once Theo is ready, he can take over once Shaw inevitably moves on.
And before you say, 'why would theo want to come to just be an assistant', why wouldn't he? Theo already has a relationship with Shaw (they are currently on the same staff). And I'm sure its appealing for Theo to come home (not just to Cal, but remember he's originally from the bay area). And he would probably know that he would be next in line once shaw leaves.
oskirules;842820083 said:
Randy Bennett graduated from UC San Diego with a degree in Biology. He's a UC guy, who would have thought?
TheSouseFamily;842821281 said:
I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more discussion about Ben Howland. Granted the Mississippi State experiment hasn't been a success but he'd be a Monty-like hire. 3 Final Fours and 4 PAC-10/12 titles deserves some credibility. He wasn't hugely popular at Ucla toward the end but no coach ever is (just ask Alford or Mora). Not sure he'd be my guy but he'd be on the list.
WhatABonanza;842819884 said:
Travis Decuire.
He's a very good recruiter. He started building a good program at Montana. His teams finished first, second and fourth in three years. This year's team was young. Getting Ahmaad Rorie as a transfer from Oregon was a good get - and a sign, again, that he can recruit.
tsubamoto2001;842821291 said:
No fired coaches. I follow UCLA hoops and Howland isn't the guy for Cal. Trust me on that.
btsktr;842819853 said:
Eric Musselman would be my choice. He has NBA experience, comes from a basketball family (he has been coaching since he was 23). And he lives in the east bay.
I watch a lot of Mountain West Basketball and what he has done at UNR is amazing.
barabbas;842821290 said:
A "UC guy?" What's that? Every school is a totally independent entity. I don't feel anything in common with the experience I had at Cal and the experience friends received at UC San Diego, UCSB, UC Davis, UC Riveside, UC Irvine etc The whole UC thing as if we share something other than attending a public school in the same state is a myth!
Islander670;842819914 said:
That said, Bennett would never leave Saint Mary's for Cal just like Few would never leave Gonzaga for Cal. So it doesn't matter if he's your third backup choice if he wouldn't ever be interested anyway.
tsubamoto2001;842821285 said:
Dude, this just sounds nonsensical and I'm trying to be nice here. Brian Shaw hasn't proven to me he can coach. Give me evidence that he's this coach you're talking about.
This program isn't at a point where we need to take the equivalent of a 3/4-court shot that would have a minuscule chance of going in (unless you're Steph Curry).
wifeisafurd;842820024 said:
Who I want: Larry K. Send Monty to recruit him.
Who I think we get: an elevated current assistant. In fact, I think the only one going with Martin will be the strength coach. We do save the recruiting class.
I like the idea of Gates, I just don't think it will happen.
TheSouseFamily;842821294 said:
Fair enough but what's the general nature of the objection(s)? Recruiting / AAU connections? Program management (lord knows he mishandled the Reeves Nelson thing)? Coaching? Just curious.
tsubamoto2001;842821309 said:
His issues are well-chronicled. He's a good coach that knows a lot about the game. Just not the direction I'd go in right now. We're not coming off a dumpster-fire season single digit win season where better options are avoiding us like the plague.
tsubamoto2001;842821285 said:
Dude, this just sounds nonsensical and I'm trying to be nice here. Brian Shaw hasn't proven to me he can coach. Give me evidence that he's this coach you're talking about.
This program isn't at a point where we need to take the equivalent of a 3/4-court shot that would have a minuscule chance of going in (unless you're Steph Curry).
socaltownie;842821299 said:
I think that is true for the era Bennett attended (1981-83) but is increasingly less so. Just in respect to comeptitiveness for undergrad addmisions
Cal
Section Average 25th Percentile
Math 710 650
Reading 665 600
Writing 680 620
Composite 2055 1870
UCSD
(different source)
25t% and 75% percentiles liks
High School GPA
4.00 - 4.27
ACT Composite Score
28 - 33
SAT Critical Reading
590 - 720
SAT Mathematics
630 - 770
SAT Writing
600 - 730
So Cal remains modestly higher on SAT scores but not by THAT much.
But again - that is largely a last (10) year thing. In the 1980s there was a pretty significant delta in competitiveness and the student experiences of that era (when UCSD was a MUCH smaller institution) are significant.
Moreover, I am just not that sure that being an UNDERGRAD at Cal/UC prepares you that much to be an EMPLOYEE of the system/campus.
socaltownie;842821312 said:
And it isn't clear that he isn't "tainted" with recruits. I also have real questions as to whether Howland's brand of basketball and what he knows best to teach got screwed in the rule change (not his fault, sometimes regulatory regimes f'you). His UCLA teams essentially committed 400 fouls a game and he DARED you to call all the hand checking and bodying up of guys because if you did it would mean the team would foul out in like first 4 minutes. Since refs don't REALLY want that to happen the games turned into grind fests.
But in the era of an emphasis on Freedom of movement I think that they WOULD foul out in the first 5. Howland was required to adjust. He hasn't/can't.
So no. No Howland.
(BTW - I thought he would have made a FANTASTIC hire at USC and I still wonder if he wouldn't have done as well/better than Enfeld).
joe yaks;842821322 said:
After May 2016 you need to cite the new SAT score scale. Different numbers.
Your questions about Bennett aren't really my questions about Bennett, except you start to get to my questions in your number 4.ducky23;842821255 said:
I have major concerns with Randy Bennett, mostly because he presents a very unique set of questions. I get that all potential coaches are going to have question marks. But his question marks are unique and thus, in my mind, a little harder to answer.
1. As discussed already, can this guy recruit outside of Australia? Does he only recruit Australia because he's at St. Mary's? Would he only recruit Australia if at Cal? Can he relate to kids who may come from more diverse backgrounds? Can he recruit locally? We just don't know the answer to any of these questions, which scares the crap out of me.
2. If Australia becomes our main recruiting area, what happens if that area starts drying up? What happens when every other school starts developing in-roads into that area and starts taking those recruits? (this will happen eventually). What happens then?
3. If we just recruit white guys, can that win in a power 5 conference? Sure, that can work at a midmajor. But every night, we would be facing a team with way more athleticism. Can we make up the difference with superior execution, experience and skill? I don't know. Does a team like St Mary's have any chance beating an elite athletic team like Arizona, UCLA or Oregon?
4. If Bennett did start bringing in more athletic players, will those types of players even fit in his system? Again, Bennett's offense relies on execution, experience and skill. If you start bringing in one and done guys (which you need to do to compete at the highest level), will these guys be able to learn his offense quick enough? Would they have the right type of skillset?
Bennett's recruiting philosophy and offensive schemes are perfectly suited for a midmajor. Can these same philosophies be successful at the next level? if no, Can Bennett make the necessary adjustments to be able to compete at the next level? I just don't know.
tsubamoto2001;842821291 said:
No fired coaches. I follow UCLA hoops and Howland isn't the guy for Cal. Trust me on that.
Cal8285;842821327 said:
The biggest concern I have is buried within your item 4. Bennett relies on execution, EXPERIENCE, and skill. Bennett's coaching style would have to really change if he is going to use one and done guys. Can you compete at the highest level without using one and dones? In some ways, the question is, can you be Wisconsin and make Final Fours? Wisconsin would say yes.
Cal8285;842821327 said:
Your questions about Bennett aren't really my questions about Bennett, except you start to get to my questions in your number 4.
I think he can recruit outside of Australia. 3 of his 5 current starters are non-Australian, 2 from San Diego and one from the Portland area (although Australian Pinneau gets more PT than San Diegan Fitzner). A lot of his successful recruiting "locally" has come from the Sacramento area (see, e.g., Brad Waldow, and most recently Jordan Ford). and otherwise he's been mostly western US in terms of non-Australian recruiting. Getting San Diegan Joe Rahon as a transfer from BC was a big deal for this team -- as seen last night, the current team loses a lot in terms of ball handling when Joe Rahon isn't on the floor. Anyway, I think Bennett can recruit US players to Cal.
Also, his track record shows that he doesn't just recruit white guys. His 2 main US recruits who are true freshmen this year, both African American. When Brad Waldow was around, the offense ran through him (perhaps ran through him TOO much) -- not exactly an athletic non-white, but still. People don't like to count Patty Mills as non-white since he is Australian, but Patty Mills. Current sophomore Stephan Gonzalez, who will likely see a lot more PT next year, while not African-American, isn't exactly white.
The biggest concern I have is buried within your item 4. Bennett relies on execution, EXPERIENCE, and skill. Bennett's coaching style would have to really change if he is going to use one and done guys. Can you compete at the highest level without using one and dones? In some ways, the question is, can you be Wisconsin and make Final Fours? Wisconsin would say yes.
Bennett's style would not seem to mesh with one and dones. Bennett is a coach who DOES redshirt players, I'm sure in part because of how much he values experience. Hermanson and Naar both redshirted, so they are juniors this year. Two of his true freshmen players this year are redshirting, Australian Jock Perry and the only really dark skinned player you see on the bench, Elijah Thomas from Arizona. Jordan Ford isn't redshirting, but keeping in line with Bennett's philosophy, he is being brought along pretty slowly. Ford is going to be needed next year when Rahon is gone, and if Bennett had more faith in less experienced guys, Ford would have been useful when both Rahon and Hermanson were in foul trouble last night. Ford is more athletic than any of the other guards on the team. I think most basketball people would be puzzled at the use of Ford this year. Understanding how much Bennett values experience, it makes perfect sense.
I have no idea if Bennett can coach based on anything but execution, experience and skill, and it is the rare team that succeeds at the next level based on those. That would be my concern about Bennett. One the other hand, trying to succeed without having to rely on one and dones may be more in line with the Cal ethos.
Bennett probably isn't at the top of my list of choices, although he is certainly ahead of guys who don't seem to me to fit the Cal ethos, like Musselman (and don't even talk to me about the kicker down at UofA whom I don't want to dignify by mentioning his name). Of course, probably the number one reason I don't want Bennett at Cal is that my son would be pissed off at the Bears if we poached Bennett.
stu;842821339 said:
I'm OK with recruiting players who are good but not immediate NBA prospects. I think a roster full of four-star recruits could do quite well if they all stay 4 or 5 years so at any time enough are experienced.
My concern is finding a coach who can recruit those four-star players who are academically ready for Cal. As far as I can tell none the candidates we've been discussing have track records doing that.
socaliganbear;842819800 said:
Whoever we get, we need facilities asap.
socaltownie;842821341 said:
yeah but we are NOT talking about 4 stars with Bennett. It is 2 and 3 stars. can THAT do well even if they stick for 4-5 years and are coached up? I have serious doubts.
Cal8285;842821327 said:
Your questions about Bennett aren't really my questions about Bennett, except you start to get to my questions in your number 4.
I think he can recruit outside of Australia. 3 of his 5 current starters are non-Australian, 2 from San Diego and one from the Portland area (although Australian Pinneau gets more PT than San Diegan Fitzner). A lot of his successful recruiting "locally" has come from the Sacramento area (see, e.g., Brad Waldow, and most recently Jordan Ford). and otherwise he's been mostly western US in terms of non-Australian recruiting. Getting San Diegan Joe Rahon as a transfer from BC was a big deal for this team -- as seen last night, the current team loses a lot in terms of ball handling when Joe Rahon isn't on the floor. Anyway, I think Bennett can recruit US players to Cal.
Also, his track record shows that he doesn't just recruit white guys. His 2 main US recruits who are true freshmen this year, both African American. When Brad Waldow was around, the offense ran through him (perhaps ran through him TOO much) -- not exactly an athletic non-white, but still. People don't like to count Patty Mills as non-white since he is Australian, but Patty Mills. Current sophomore Stephan Gonzalez, who will likely see a lot more PT next year, while not African-American, isn't exactly white.
The biggest concern I have is buried within your item 4. Bennett relies on execution, EXPERIENCE, and skill. Bennett's coaching style would have to really change if he is going to use one and done guys. Can you compete at the highest level without using one and dones? In some ways, the question is, can you be Wisconsin and make Final Fours? Wisconsin would say yes.
Bennett's style would not seem to mesh with one and dones. Bennett is a coach who DOES redshirt players, I'm sure in part because of how much he values experience. Hermanson and Naar both redshirted, so they are juniors this year. Two of his true freshmen players this year are redshirting, Australian Jock Perry and the only really dark skinned player you see on the bench, Elijah Thomas from Arizona. Jordan Ford isn't redshirting, but keeping in line with Bennett's philosophy, he is being brought along pretty slowly. Ford is going to be needed next year when Rahon is gone, and if Bennett had more faith in less experienced guys, Ford would have been useful when both Rahon and Hermanson were in foul trouble last night. Ford is more athletic than any of the other guards on the team. I think most basketball people would be puzzled at the use of Ford this year. Understanding how much Bennett values experience, it makes perfect sense.
I have no idea if Bennett can coach based on anything but execution, experience and skill, and it is the rare team that succeeds at the next level based on those. That would be my concern about Bennett. One the other hand, trying to succeed without having to rely on one and dones may be more in line with the Cal ethos.
Bennett probably isn't at the top of my list of choices, although he is certainly ahead of guys who don't seem to me to fit the Cal ethos, like Musselman (and don't even talk to me about the kicker down at UofA whom I don't want to dignify by mentioning his name). Of course, probably the number one reason I don't want Bennett at Cal is that my son would be pissed off at the Bears if we poached Bennett.
Looperbear;842820075 said:
Theo Robertson. Excellent coaching tree--Allocco, Monty, Kerr, Walton.
stu;842821348 said:
I don't know if it would be easier or harder to recruit four-stars to Cal rather than to St. Mary's. Only one way to find out. Also I have no problem with international recruiting, actually I think we should do more of that since we have great name recognition and a great reputation overseas.
socaltownie;842821340 said:
The simply really frustrating thing is that it is impossible to accurately gauge whether this really works in a P5. Yeah..Whisky....who has shown you CAN do it....but which has had its share of NBA draftees come through.
And you really can't separate Whisky from Bo Ryan. And Ryan is SO unique in that in many ways he _IS_ Basketball in the entire state. Never has coached anywhere outside of that STATE. Probably knows the name of every kid of every HS coach in the state. Essentially is a paragon. It isn't found nearly anywhere else and I am not sure can be emulated ever again (Hey dark horse name - lets hire coach Richie).
So the real danger here is a 4-5 year experiment. Ultimately Cal so a 7 to 8 year one. Remember Campanelli. We have tried the smart tactician before. It didn't work well in a P5 conference.
stu;842821348 said:
I don't know if it would be easier or harder to recruit four-stars to Cal rather than to St. Mary's. Only one way to find out. Also I have no problem with international recruiting, actually I think we should do more of that since we have great name recognition and a great reputation overseas.
OaktownBear;842821361 said:
I
Bottom line - we've done a lot of the coach-em-up guys and few of the recruit them guys, and the recruit them guys have produced the best teams.
socaltownie;842821375 said:
We HAVE recruited 4 stars under all 3 of the most recent coaches. The challenge is that 1) we couldn't coach them (Braun) 2) We couldn't get them at the big man spot - at that time the most coveted by the NBA and thus the highest value one and dones (Monty) and 3) we will never know what year 4-6 of martin would have been.
