superbear99 said:
Agree Big C. I have always told my kids to do the right thing, and I would have been fine if they went to classes for 3 years and gotten a Cal degree. Disappointed for basketball, but I would have thought it fair.
Doing what Winston and McCullough did is bush league. Yes, they got their payback, but I can't see how they hold up their heads high.
I think the question is, did they wait longer than they needed to, in order to stick it to us? I dunno.calumnus said:superbear99 said:
Agree Big C. I have always told my kids to do the right thing, and I would have been fine if they went to classes for 3 years and gotten a Cal degree. Disappointed for basketball, but I would have thought it fair.
Doing what Winston and McCullough did is bush league. Yes, they got their payback, but I can't see how they hold up their heads high.
What is it that they did that you consider "bush league"? The fact they are playing at CCSF shows they did not have any significanr scholarship offers. They could have stayed at Cal and kept the scholarship. Now we get the scholarships back. You think they should have given up the scholarship immediately? Besides, this is better for class balance and prevents Wyking from reaching again. Moreover, if Wyking is replaced, the next coach will now have the scholarships to offer.
And you know that how?superbear99 said:
yes Big C,, the bush league act to me was not informing anyone that they were leaving Cal and renouncing their scholarships. They knew what they were doing, and they knew it would affect their former teammates, yet chose to keep the secret of their move to CCSF. Not the right thing to do in my book, but moot at this point.
So they rejected prior efforts to find them solid landing spots, waited until recruiting season for Cal had passed then quietly went across the bay to a CC?MoragaBear said:
No, Cal was kept completely in the dark
really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
That's a pretty one sided view of things. You can look out for your best interest and still be decent about things.fat_slice said:Meh - I'm glad this is over. They got kicked off the team so the bridge was lit by Cal. They had to look out for their best interest - keep the scholly until the best offer presented itself. In this case, the best offer never came so they went with the only offer which was SF city. Not sure why they owe Cal any kind of notice ... it's not like we gave them notice that they would be kicked off the b-ball team.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
I am in general agreement with you on this, but I suspect the other "opportunities put forward' were ones like:tequila4kapp said:That's a pretty one sided view of things. You can look out for your best interest and still be decent about things.fat_slice said:Meh - I'm glad this is over. They got kicked off the team so the bridge was lit by Cal. They had to look out for their best interest - keep the scholly until the best offer presented itself. In this case, the best offer never came so they went with the only offer which was SF city. Not sure why they owe Cal any kind of notice ... it's not like we gave them notice that they would be kicked off the b-ball team.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
The only offer wasn't necessarily CCSF....Moraga said they rejected other opportunities put forward.
How many times has this happened in the history of Cal basketball? Forcing guys out without any behavior or academic reasons? Yeah, other guys have transferred because they could see the writing on the wall, but here were two guys who thought being at Cal was a really good thing, wanted to be student athletes, and end up alums-you know, kind of like most of us.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
It has happened more often than you may want to admit. Usually in the form of a forced medical retirement.mbBear said:How many times has this happened in the history of Cal basketball? Forcing guys out without any behavior or academic reasons? Yeah, other guys have transferred because they could see the writing on the wall, but here were two guys who thought being at Cal was a really good thing, wanted to be student athletes, and end up alums-you know, kind of like most of us.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
We can wish that they handled it differently, but this was messed up by the coaching staff. Their actions, even if we don't like them, isn't going to change the origin of this mess. Be happy its over, but blasting the kids?
Big C said:
Can't help but wondering how many guys we missed on the past five months or so because we didn't have the scholarships open, ready to offer.
BeachedBear said:It has happened more often than you may want to admit. Usually in the form of a forced medical retirement.mbBear said:How many times has this happened in the history of Cal basketball? Forcing guys out without any behavior or academic reasons? Yeah, other guys have transferred because they could see the writing on the wall, but here were two guys who thought being at Cal was a really good thing, wanted to be student athletes, and end up alums-you know, kind of like most of us.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
We can wish that they handled it differently, but this was messed up by the coaching staff. Their actions, even if we don't like them, isn't going to change the origin of this mess. Be happy its over, but blasting the kids?
What is different IMHO with Jones is that one recruit never should have been more than a PWO and the other was a marginal recruit at best (taking both the same year was maybe too much as well). More importantly, they were 'dismissed' after their freshman season. The others were usually gone after more time with the program. However, it was painfully obvious that neither player was going to be part of the rebuild.
How do you know that was what they wanted ("being at Cal")? Sounds like they had that option, if they chose it.mbBear said:How many times has this happened in the history of Cal basketball? Forcing guys out without any behavior or academic reasons? Yeah, other guys have transferred because they could see the writing on the wall, but here were two guys who thought being at Cal was a really good thing, wanted to be student athletes, and end up alums-you know, kind of like most of us.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
We can wish that they handled it differently, but this was messed up by the coaching staff. Their actions, even if we don't like them, isn't going to change the origin of this mess. Be happy its over, but blasting the kids?
Well, we always kept one scholarship open for Jordan Brown. He just didn't take it. I guess the worst-case would be if he might've come here as a tandem with another player (the "mystery grad-transfer?), but we only had one guaranteed slot to offer and that was the straw that broke the camel's back and sent him to Reno.Civil Bear said:Big C said:
Can't help but wondering how many guys we missed on the past five months or so because we didn't have the scholarships open, ready to offer.
Heh, one 5* PF and one 4* PG come to mind. CAL really screwed the pooch on this one.
Big C said:
More likely, though, he just picked Nevada over us.
It's happened quite a few times, not just at Cal but at virtually every program. The difference is that players usually find it in their best interest to keep it on the downlow instead of putting the program on blast. Believe me, that didn't do them any favors when trying to find a new home, even with the program trying to endorse them.mbBear said:How many times has this happened in the history of Cal basketball? Forcing guys out without any behavior or academic reasons? Yeah, other guys have transferred because they could see the writing on the wall, but here were two guys who thought being at Cal was a really good thing, wanted to be student athletes, and end up alums-you know, kind of like most of us.calfanz said:really immature... as they say never burn bridges....MoragaBear said:
They explored some of the options and eventually rejected additional opportunities put forward but they definitely didn't tell Cal how any of it went or of their ultimate intentions to enroll at CCSF.
We can wish that they handled it differently, but this was messed up by the coaching staff. Their actions, even if we don't like them, isn't going to change the origin of this mess. Be happy its over, but blasting the kids?
What are you suggesting happened? (not saying it didn't, just asking)Civil Bear said:Big C said:
More likely, though, he just picked Nevada over us.
The timing of it all suggests otherwise. Recall the very day this all went down there was tweet from a Cal assist coach about big things to come that day.
MoragaBear said:
A big element Brown's recruitment was his insistence that there be more talent around him, especially good bigs. The lack of open scholarships handcuffed the staff's ability to bring in some guys that were interested and would have helped with Brown's recruitment.