SFCityBear said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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R90 said:

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JHD has a higher ceiling than Jorge (as much as I like Jorge).

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LOL. People need to stop conflating athleticism with ability.

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Saying JHD has a higher ceiling than Jorge is akin to saying Usain Bolt has a higher ceiling as a wide receiver than Jerry Rice. You have to look at like 3 attributes of "athleticism" and ignore like 400 things he can't do as well and say "Gee if he ever learns to do those 400 things, he'll be better"

This was the Moneyball lesson (and in no way limited to Moneyball). You can't have scouts that look at an athletic 18 year old and dream about how good he could be if he learns all the skills he needs perfectly and then compare him to a guy who actually has developed skills. For most guys there is a limit to how much more they can improve skills wise once you get out of high school.

Jorge is better than the large majority of guys with JHD's athletic profile. You'd be hard pressed to name guys who had JHD's athletic and skill profile at this age who ended up with a better career than Jorge. I'd bet the house on JHD not having Jorge's career. Yeah, if you want to say 1 in 10 million JHD's end up better than Jorge means he has a higher ceiling, okay. Scouting that way makes you wrong 9,999,999 times.

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Bob Hayes was a great wide receiver. Ray Norton was not.

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Nor was Renaldo Nehmiah

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of course he wasn't, who is arguing that he was? He was almost exhibit A of why that experiment was risky and seldom pursued since....but Walsh stuck to it maybe longer than he should have.

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Walsh was a football genius. He often did things that were not common or expected. Maybe Nehemiah was just barely good enough so that when Walsh put him into a game, that the opposing coach would have to put his fastest DB on Nehemiah, taking him away from defending a better receiver for that one play. Just wondering. I don't have the knowledge to question anything Bill Walsh did.

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neither do I. When he was coaching, I claimed that the insignia on his 9er sweater was "e=mc^2" . Nobody doubted me. So let me rethink this whole "Skeets" thing and get back to you. My memory that it was a failed experiment may be wrong because Bill Walsh was a genius....after all. Skeets' Wikipedia may need to be updated as well.

SFCityBear said:

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...He was the Clifford Ray of our team.

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Clifford Ray fun facts from my memory:

1. Nickname was Johann because he played the sax or clarinet or something;
2. He once saved a dolphin's life: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2049159
3. When he played for the Warriors he lived in a house at the corner of McGurrin Road and Sequoyah Road close to the entrance of Sequoyah CC.

SFCityBear said:

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.... I don't have the knowledge to question anything Bill Walsh did.

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I do in a couple of areas. He took credit for the wins but distanced himself from losses. He trashed his players in the press. Both dick moves.

bearister said:

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SFCityBear said:

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...He was the Clifford Ray of our team.

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Clifford Ray fun facts from my memory:

1. Nickname was Johann because he played the sax or clarinet or something;
2. He once saved a dolphin's life: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2049159
3. When he played for the Warriors he lived in a house at the corner of McGurrin Road and Sequoyah Road close to the entrance of Sequoyah CC.

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Very cool. He was a favorite player of mine. Very tough defender.