If Cal MBB Is At Least As Good As Last Year, We Should Beat Stanford Tonight

4,255 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by SFCityBear
calbear80
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Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!
parentswerebears
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False equivalence. Either way, it's probably the second to last game of the season.
bearsandgiants
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All we need is a little streak here, at the right time. 12 seed in the pac12 tournament matches us up with #5. Totally winnable. Game 2 vs #4. Again...winnable. A couple more Ws and we're in the Tourney, baby!
RedlessWardrobe
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Based on this thread title's ridiculous premise, Cal's team must be better than last year because they beat Washington and WSU this year.

Would really like to see CB80 comment on what he SPECIFICALLY doesn't like about the coach's performance this year. Like in basketball terms, i.e. offensive execution, defensive execution, in game strategy.
It would be a welcome relief from the usual postings of won/ lost record and statistical data that can be found by anyone on the internet.

CB80, what specifically (strategically) would you like to see the coach do tonight in order to enable us to win? We are an 11 point underdog. I have yet to read a post in which you write about basketball. Would really like to know.

calbear80
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RedlessWardrobe, thank you for asking. Here it is:

. 2-15 this year (dead last in the Pac-12 this year)

. 2-17 last year (dead last in the Pac-12 last year).

. ESPN BPI #292 (the worst of any major conference teams by a large margin).

I look at the results as it is not my job to coach basketball (someone is getting paid $1.1 million dollars a year to do that even though he is doing a very poor job of it). Just like when I take my car to mechanic, I don't dive into the grease pit, I just evaluate to see if the car runs well and keeps on running well. Just like when I go out to dinner, I don't get involved with the type or temperature of the oven or the type of the dishwashing soap, I just see if l like the dinner on my plate.

Results are what count.

Go Bears!
parentswerebears
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Did you really expect a real answer? I'd like to see a more efficient defensive effort. More steals and better finishing at the rim.
RedlessWardrobe
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Good call pwb. And CB80, last time I checked, it is also not your job to be the AD either, but that doesn't stop you from voicing your opinion.

And as far as your answer it was just about what I expected :


Cal's coach has a horrible W/L record

That's not too insightful CB80, I think everybody on this board knows it already.

Since it's impossible to get you to talk about actual basketball the only other thing I can ask you is:

When you do have a bad dinner at a restaurant, is it customary for you to let the server/owner know about it say, 378 times?

Cal8285
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calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!
Good grief, please stop helping the "defenders of this coach." Barring some miracle finish to the season, I want Jones gone, and I expect him to be gone if Knowlton finds the money.

But if the court of public opinion matters, making incredibly stupid posts with incredibly stupid thread titles in order to be negative towards Jones only helps Jones in the court of public opinion, it makes people who aren't paying attention and don't know what is going on more sympathetic, and gives the "defenders of this coach" ammunition to say that the detractors are incredible idiots.

Others have pointed out problems with the title and the post, there are other problems, but it is so obviously stupid it does seem a waste to point out the problems. Good grief.

But if you want an excuse for winning last year at Maples and losing this year, number one is that there is a really good chance that Stanford will suck less in the game at Maples this year than they did last year. Did you even see that game? I still don't know how Cal won that. Well, I kind of do, but for the first 30+ minutes, Cal was terrible. RIght before Sueing got a layup with 9:01 left, the Bears were down 17. They were down 13 at the half, and it would have been more than a 17 point deficit 10+ minutes later except that Stanford seemed to put things in cruise control. The Bears were playing like a team that had ZERO chance of winning that game, and Stanford was playing like they thought the Bears had ZERO chance of winning that game.

And then Stanford fell apart. In the last 9 minutes, they went 3-13 from the floor, 3-7 line, with 4 turnovers. This helped Cal to get a lot of transition buckets (because it isn't like our halfcourt offense all of a sudden because great), and we went 10-15 from the floor to close out the game. We still turned the ball over 3 times, and went 4-6 from the line, but we hit the last 4 FT's. A really stupid foul that gave Reid Travis an and one on a layup turned a 3 point game into a 6 point game with just under two minutes left, but Stanford managed to choke from there, a miss, a miss, an offensive foul, 1-2 from the stripe, and a miss, whle Cal hit the next three shots, a Lee jumper, an Antecivich 3, and a Sueing layup with the and 1 to give Cal the 2 point lead. Stanford still screwed up, 1-2 from Travis at the line after a foul on Lee, then forced to foul Coleman who hit both, and Stanford misses a 3 as the clock winds down.

You think it was the brilliance of the coach that brought us from 17 down? You think that he was that brilliant for 9 minutes on December 30, 2017, and then lost after that, and if he can't do it again in this game, he isn't as good as he was last year? Sure, Cal played some good D for a 9 minute stretch, and they made most of their their open shots, the Lee and Antecivich clutch shots being big, so give Cal some credit for the comeback, including the coach. But a lot of the credit has to go to Stanford for SUCKING, and while just for being Stanford, they suck, they may not suck so bad tonight.

Good grief, your stupid argument makes as much sense as anybody saying that the coach is better this year because he beat the first place team in the conference this year, something the Bears surely could not have done last year.

Please, please, stop giving the "defenders of this coach" legitimate arguments that his detractors are morons. Please.
calbear80
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Thank you RedlessWardrobe.

In response to your post, if I am served 378 bad dinners, yes, I will let the owner/manger/server know each time that it was bad*. Also, I post on the online reviews that it was bad. Oh, yes, I also mention it to family and friends that the owner/manager are doing bad.

*Well, of course, I would not go back to the same bad restaurant 378 times. But, for most of us, Cal is not like a restaurant. We are attached to Cal for life and Bleed Blue and Gold. So unlike a bad restaurant, we cannot just walk away and find another one.

Aren't you attached to Cal for life? Don't you love Cal?

Go Bears!
oskidunker
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Cal8285 said:

calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!
Good grief, please stop helping the "defenders of this coach." Barring some miracle finish to the season, I want Jones gone, and I expect him to be gone if Knowlton finds the money.

But if the court of public opinion matters, making incredibly stupid posts with incredibly stupid thread titles in order to be negative towards Jones only helps Jones in the court of public opinion, it makes people who aren't paying attention and don't know what is going on more sympathetic, and gives the "defenders of this coach" ammunition to say that the detractors are incredible idiots.

Others have pointed out problems with the title and the post, there are other problems, but it is so obviously stupid it does seem a waste to point out the problems. Good grief.

But if you want an excuse for winning last year at Maples and losing this year, number one is that there is a really good chance that Stanford will suck less in the game at Maples this year than they did last year. Did you even see that game? I still don't know how Cal won that. Well, I kind of do, but for the first 30+ minutes, Cal was terrible. RIght before Sueing got a layup with 9:01 left, the Bears were down 17. They were down 13 at the half, and it would have been more than a 17 point deficit 10+ minutes later except that Stanford seemed to put things in cruise control. The Bears were playing like a team that had ZERO chance of winning that game, and Stanford was playing like they thought the Bears had ZERO chance of winning that game.

And then Stanford fell apart. In the last 9 minutes, they went 3-13 from the floor, 3-7 line, with 4 turnovers. This helped Cal to get a lot of transition buckets (because it isn't like our halfcourt offense all of a sudden because great), and we went 10-15 from the floor to close out the game. We still turned the ball over 3 times, and went 4-6 from the line, but we hit the last 4 FT's. A really stupid foul that gave Reid Travis an and one on a layup turned a 3 point game into a 6 point game with just under two minutes left, but Stanford managed to choke from there, a miss, a miss, an offensive foul, 1-2 from the stripe, and a miss, whle Cal hit the next three shots, a Lee jumper, an Antecivich 3, and a Sueing layup with the and 1 to give Cal the 2 point lead. Stanford still screwed up, 1-2 from Travis at the line after a foul on Lee, then forced to foul Coleman who hit both, and Stanford misses a 3 as the clock winds down.

You think it was the brilliance of the coach that brought us from 17 down? You think that he was that brilliant for 9 minutes on December 30, 2017, and then lost after that, and if he can't do it again in this game, he isn't as good as he was last year? Sure, Cal played some good D for a 9 minute stretch, and they made most of their their open shots, the Lee and Antecivich clutch shots being big, so give Cal some credit for the comeback, including the coach. But a lot of the credit has to go to Stanford for SUCKING, and while just for being Stanford, they suck, they may not suck so bad tonight.

Good grief, your stupid argument makes as much sense as anybody saying that the coach is better this year because he beat the first place team in the conference this year, something the Bears surely could not have done last year.

Please, please, stop giving the "defenders of this coach" legitimate arguments that his detractors are morons. Please.


Responding to the enablers is a waste of time. +1
SFCityBear
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calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!
The logic befuddles me.

The seasons are different, the rosters are different the teams are different. Last season, Stanford had 4 bigs in the rotation, and Cal had 2. This season Stanford has 3 bigs in the rotation, and Cal has 1. (Anticevich might be in the rotation, depending on which month you look at.) Last year Cal had 4 upperclassmen in the rotation, and this year Cal has only one. Last season, Stanford had 6 top 100 recruits, and Cal had 1. This season Stanford has 4 top 100 recruits. Cal has 1. "Basketball is a game of matchups" - Don Nelson.

Stanford is bigger, more experienced, more balanced, deeper, you name it, than Cal. They should be favored, and will be. Maybe, just maybe, Wyking Jones had a little bit to do with last season's win, even though you would never admit it. Or maybe the Stanford coach can't coach, which several people have said. If Cal wins today, maybe last year's win was not an aberration.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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calbear80 said:

RedlessWardrobe, thank you for asking. Here it is:

. 2-15 this year (dead last in the Pac-12 this year)

. 2-17 last year (dead last in the Pac-12 last year).

. ESPN BPI #292 (the worst of any major conference teams by a large margin).

I look at the results as it is not my job to coach basketball (someone is getting paid $1.1 million dollars a year to do that even though he is doing a very poor job of it). Just like when I take my car to mechanic, I don't dive into the grease pit, I just evaluate to see if the car runs well and keeps on running well. Just like when I go out to dinner, I don't get involved with the type or temperature of the oven or the type of the dishwashing soap, I just see if l like the dinner on my plate.

Results are what count.

Go Bears!

BTW, what do they pay you the millions to do so you have the money and time to go snorkeling in the Maldives and visit all the other beautiful places you travel to?
SFCityBear
calbear80
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SFCityBear said:

calbear80 said:

RedlessWardrobe, thank you for asking. Here it is:

. 2-15 this year (dead last in the Pac-12 this year)

. 2-17 last year (dead last in the Pac-12 last year).

. ESPN BPI #292 (the worst of any major conference teams by a large margin).

I look at the results as it is not my job to coach basketball (someone is getting paid $1.1 million dollars a year to do that even though he is doing a very poor job of it). Just like when I take my car to mechanic, I don't dive into the grease pit, I just evaluate to see if the car runs well and keeps on running well. Just like when I go out to dinner, I don't get involved with the type or temperature of the oven or the type of the dishwashing soap, I just see if l like the dinner on my plate.

Results are what count.

Go Bears!

BTW, what do they pay you the millions to do so you have the money and time to go snorkeling in the Maldives and visit all the other beautiful places you travel to?

First of all no one pays me millions (or anything close to it). Second, I love traveling, but, I travel very cheaply (if you send me a private message, I'll share some travel cost saving ideas with you). Third, I do not snorkel. Third, I have been to Maldives for a very short visit (I mention it because you have talked about it twice now). Fourth, just like you, I love Cal. What is different about you and me is that I hate losing, but, somehow you rationalize it and make excuses for the coach. I do not know why because you are otherwise very intelligent and articulate.

Go Bears!
RedlessWardrobe
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calbear80 said:

Thank you RedlessWardrobe.

In response to your post, if I am served 378 bad dinners, yes, I will let the owner/manger/server know each time that it was bad*. Also, I post on the online reviews that it was bad. Oh, yes, I also mention it to family and friends that the owner/manager are doing bad.

*Well, of course, I would not go back to the same bad restaurant 378 times. But, for most of us, Cal is not like a restaurant. We are attached to Cal for life and Bleed Blue and Gold. So unlike a bad restaurant, we cannot just walk away and find another one.

Aren't you attached to Cal for life? Don't you love Cal?

Go Bears!
CB80 , with sincere honesty I am a Cal fan for life like you. And I have been on the fence all year about whether WJ should be retained. I can certainly understand anyone's opionion that he should be fired. Let me point out to you and C8285 that I am not a "wyking defender".

But your posts are difficult for everybody, both WJ defenders AND detractors. Your repetitive threads with "loaded" conclusions such as this one should have run their course a long time ago. I know I don't have to read them, but they in itself make me wonder what you're trying to accomplish.

I will ask, and then just leave you alone, to please take a step back and give this thing a rest. We know the record, but let's talk about something that we can expand on, okay?

Again, I am a Cal fan like you, just looking for something more interesting.

Go Bears!
calbear80
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RedlessWardrobe, I have no doubt that you, like me, are a Cal fan. Maybe like me you also Bleed Blue and Gold.

Since you asked, here is something different and interesting.

Please watch Cal WBB at 6 PM tonight on the Pac-12 Network. Cal should beat WSU in the Pac-12 Tournament opener, unless, Cal comes in overconfident from Sunday!s win over WSU.

In that game, jeep an eye on Cal WBB's F/C Anigwe. She is truly once in a decade talent. She had 32 points and 30 rebounds on Sunday (outrebounded the entire WSU team single-handedly 30 To 22).

Go Bears, Beat the Cougs! (6 PM)
Go Bears, Beat the Tree! (8 PM)
RedlessWardrobe
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I was planning on it. The women have shown the potential to make a run. Let's hope for a double Cal win tonight. Go Bears!
cal83dls79
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You really should try snorkeling.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
Genocide Joe 58
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Cal8285 said:


But if the court of public opinion matters, making incredibly stupid posts with incredibly stupid thread titles in order to be negative towards Jones only helps Jones in the court of public opinion, it makes people who aren't paying attention and don't know what is going on more sympathetic, and gives the "defenders of this coach" ammunition to say that the detractors are incredible idiots.
That's OK. He's balanced out by an idiot on the "keep the coach" side.
oskidunker
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Serious question,Yogi. Are some of these people wanting to keep Jones working in the athletic dept or friends of Jones? Just curious of your opinion.
prospeCt
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Genocide Joe 58
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oskidunker said:

Serious question,Yogi. Are some of these people wanting to keep Jones working in the athletic dept or friends of Jones? Just curious of your opinion.
No. Just your garden-variety delusional Cal fans who have argued for keeping bad coaches for years upon years.
SBGold
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We won, I'm good with extending him
GRRAAH
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calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!


You are the ultimate turd. Get lost.
Civil Bear
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GRRAAH said:

calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!

I guess with 3 conference wins (v. 2 last year), plus the repeat in Maples, that Cal is 50% better this year? Wow, with that kind of improvement I guess Knowlton would be a fool to fire Jones now.
Genocide Joe 58
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Civil Bear said:

GRRAAH said:

calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

Go Bears, Beat Stanford!

I guess with 3 conference wins (v. 2 last year), plus the repeat in Maples, that Cal is 50% better this year? Wow, with that kind of improvement I guess Knowlton would be a fool to fire Jones now.
We could be 200% better next year! Extension!
Cal8285
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Well, by the calbear80 logic, Jones is a better coach than last year. Instead of getting down 17 and having Stanford choke to get the win, he got up 21 and hung on while Cal started playing to preserve the lead and Stanford started hitting 3's. Stanford had a chance at a tying 3 near the buzzer last year, no such chance this year. We're better!!! Hurray!!

Or not. But I must say, I am starting to wonder if Jones is better than Haase. I can definitely say that I am rooting for Stanford to keep Haase.
RedlessWardrobe
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calbear80 said:

Last year Cal MBB beat Stanford in Palo Alto. Tonight we play Stanford in Palo Alto.

If Cal MBB is at least at good as last year (which was horrible), We should beat Stanford when we play them tonight in Palo Alto.

Here is a chance for this coach to show that he is at least as good as last year (never mind showing improvement in the second year). We will all see by 10 PM tonight.

Maybe, the defenders of this coach can start listing all the excuses below.

CB80, as I already mentioned I am not a "Wyking defender."
But below is a list of the excuses:

___________
___________
___________

Go Bears!

prospeCt
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SFCityBear
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calbear80 said:

SFCityBear said:

calbear80 said:

RedlessWardrobe, thank you for asking. Here it is:

. 2-15 this year (dead last in the Pac-12 this year)

. 2-17 last year (dead last in the Pac-12 last year).

. ESPN BPI #292 (the worst of any major conference teams by a large margin).

I look at the results as it is not my job to coach basketball (someone is getting paid $1.1 million dollars a year to do that even though he is doing a very poor job of it). Just like when I take my car to mechanic, I don't dive into the grease pit, I just evaluate to see if the car runs well and keeps on running well. Just like when I go out to dinner, I don't get involved with the type or temperature of the oven or the type of the dishwashing soap, I just see if l like the dinner on my plate.

Results are what count.

Go Bears!

BTW, what do they pay you the millions to do so you have the money and time to go snorkeling in the Maldives and visit all the other beautiful places you travel to?

First of all no one pays me millions (or anything close to it). Second, I love traveling, but, I travel very cheaply (if you send me a private message, I'll share some travel cost saving ideas with you). Third, I do not snorkel. Third, I have been to Maldives for a very short visit (I mention it because you have talked about it twice now). Fourth, just like you, I love Cal. What is different about you and me is that I hate losing, but, somehow you rationalize it and make excuses for the coach. I do not know why because you are otherwise very intelligent and articulate.

Go Bears!
I apologize for my comments. From my memory, you had painted yourself as someone who is always overseas traveling, and I thought that costs plenty of money, even on the cheap. I guess I was wrong. You posted once or twice from the Maldives. I thought I remembered you had snorkled but did not scuba dive. I apologize for my deficient memory, especially the short term one.

I hate losing, or at least I did when I was a player, at anything, basketball, tennis, golf, boxing, poker, anything. One day I realized that I was going to lose some or much of the time, and I had to learn that my hot temper was getting the best of me, getting in the way of my improving. A little Zen was needed. I began to examine what was causing me to lose, and I tried to fix those things. The mind can overcome adversity by changing the focus. In tennis, for example, instead of focusing on my superior opponent and getting in awe of him and mad at myself for not beating him, I began to focus on the spin of the ball. I learned focus so well on it, I forgot the opponent and allowed my body to naturally react to the spin and my racquet would somehow start moving and hit the ball back without thinking about it.

There are reasons Cal plays badly and reasons why the last 3 games have been much better. I prefer to focus on those things and not get mad at the coach for not teaching or for his players not listening to what he is saying. You may call it rationalizing, or making excuses, and maybe that is the result, but my intention is not to call for the coach to be fired, I have no opinion on that subject. I just would like the coach to get a fair hearing from the AD, present his case, and wait for the thumbs up or down. My personal opinion is that of Montgomery that it takes about 3 years to turn a program around. I think he means for an experienced coach with a usual complement of players, say recruits of 3 stars or 2 stars, and of normal size and number. Maybe that is not possible. But Jones started with 4 players, one a walk-on, plus some totally green recruits. Then his only two upperclassmen graduated, so he had to start almost all over again. Plus he has never coached before at any level. I think an experienced coach might have won about 40-45% last year, and 30-35% this year. I did not like the hire of Jones. I am disappointed he did not do a little better. But with the hand he was dealt, I expected a lot of losing could happen.

Basketball for me is more about developing young men and their character than it is about winning games, Newell insisted that his players work 20 hours a week in return for their scholarships. It is importtant for their futures that players learn how not to sulk when they are not starting like a DJ Seeley, or that they don't plagiarize papers like Richard Solomon, or that they don't continue to steal laptops, like Omondi Amoke, or take under the table money like Gardner and Fowlkes. I came to care more about those things.

If we continue to disagree, so be it. I just wanted to apologize for taking some shots at you. I should not have done that. i'm sure you are a good Cal fan, probably more so than I am.
SFCityBear
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