joe amos yaks said:

---

A "three second area" created in 1936 was to prevent offensive players from "camping out" around the basket -- which they did -- and to eliminate some rough play and smash-mouth aspects of the game -- good grief! The three second area was 6 feet wide. It was known as the "key". In 1951 the CBB three second area was widened to 12 feet. It never was 8 feet. How about that?

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

Answer: Before 1932 chicken wire (or chain-link) fencing was often installed around the court in an effort to make the game go faster by eliminating all the out of bounds delays, and it served as a buffer to protect players from rowdy spectators -- and vice versa -- and from objects being hurled onto the court -- which there often was.

When games got physical the wire fences were used by players to body check each other like in hockey -- and they did -- often resulting in injury. So in ca.1933 "cage" fences were removed; however, some more seasoned ("experienced") sportswriters still use the term "cagers" in reference to CBB play. That's just the way it is.

---

To further educate: it was known as the key because the circle around the foul line was 12' in diameter, thus creating a "keyhole" shape. It was widened (in 1951) because of the dominance of tall centers. Some even experimented with avoiding 3" by straddling the lane! It was widened to 12' and then later (in the NBA) to 18'.

Some early rules (Joe, HTP, and SFCity probably remember...):
initially dribbling needed to be with 2 hands and limited to 1 bounce
initially dribbler couldn't shoot, only someone who caught a pas
center jump after every made basket (until the 30's)
losing the ball out of bounds was a foul

joe amos yaks said:

---

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

Answer: Before 1932 chicken wire (or chain-link) fencing was often installed around the court in an effort to make the game go faster by eliminating all the out of bounds delays, and it served as a buffer to protect players from rowdy spectators -- and vice versa -- and from objects being hurled onto the court -- which there often was.

When games got physical the wire fences were used by players to body check each other like in hockey -- and they did -- often resulting in injury. So in ca.1933 "cage" fences were removed; however, some more seasoned ("experienced") sportswriters still use the term "cagers" in reference to CBB play. That's just the way it is.

---

I never saw a video of a basketball game in their glory days, and the fact that this discussion now let me see cal in the NC game is amazing (where is part 2?)

Now I hear about 'cagers"

The hockey reference, fans throwing things on the court, etc makes today's game tame in comparison

Yogi Bear said:

---

KenBurnski said:

---

Early results of the BI 2019 Quote Curtailment initiative proving mixed.

---

Early results of the BI sarcasm detection capability proving failure.

---

I didn't think there was an experiment in sarcasm detection capability going on. It looked to me failure to detect that, in context, stimuli was clearly being set forth merely for the purpose of seeing if it would elicit a conditioned response. I don't remember enough from taking Psych 1 at Cal 40 years ago to know what variety of conditioning the behaviorists would call this particular case, or what this type of demonstration/experiment is called.

HoopDreams said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

---

I never saw a video of a basketball game in their glory days, and the fact that this discussion now let me see cal in the NC game is amazing (where is part 2?)

Now I hear about 'cagers"

The hockey reference, fans throwing things on the court, etc makes today's game tame in comparison

---

Of course you remember the "hot penny" game? Ask Andy Wolfe. I think the incident happened during/after his era at Cal.

". . . Cal's home crowd fans were so notoriously rowdy during Wolfe's era that he was once asked by the game officials to get on the public-address microphone and calm them down, otherwise Cal would have to forfeit. . ."

I knew this, but only as of recently. I watched ESPN's Basketball: A Love Story, and kept seeing headlines they'd show referring to players as "cagers". I have very vague recollections of this being a thing when I was a kid, but for the most part the term is gone. But it seems to have been very ubiquitous during the 40s, 50s, and 60s, based on the newspaper headlines shown in the documentary. So I looked it up and found this interesting Sports Illustrated article from 1991 on the topic:

https://www.si.com/vault/1991/11/11/125381/when-the-court-was-a-cage-in-the-early-days-of-pro-basketball-the-players-were-segregated-from-the-fans

Quote:

---

A scant five years [after basketball was invented in 1891 by Dr. James Naismith], in 1896, the first acknowledged professionals took the floor in Trenton, N.J. Their court, in a social hall, was enclosed, literally, in a cage, a 12-foot-high wire-mesh fence set along the endlines and sidelines.

At the time, the cage made good sense. Front-row spectators sat even closer to the court than they do today, and Naismith's original rules said that when the ball went out of bounds, the first player who got to it could throw it back in. Obviously, it would have been disastrous to allow players to wrestle in the laps of paying customers for possession of the ball. With the cage the rule was mootthe ball never went out of bounds.

The out-of-bounds rule was changed in 1902 to eliminate sideline scrimmages, but by that time the early pros were wedded to the cage. The thinking was that the game was faster and more entertaining in a cage because there were no delays to return the ball to play, and because the ball and the players could bounce off the wire mesh.

---

Thank you for posting this link.
Bring back the cage and crowd participation will thrive.
Go Bears!

HoopDreams said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

Answer: Before 1932 chicken wire (or chain-link) fencing was often installed around the court in an effort to make the game go faster by eliminating all the out of bounds delays, and it served as a buffer to protect players from rowdy spectators -- and vice versa -- and from objects being hurled onto the court -- which there often was.

When games got physical the wire fences were used by players to body check each other like in hockey -- and they did -- often resulting in injury. So in ca.1933 "cage" fences were removed; however, some more seasoned ("experienced") sportswriters still use the term "cagers" in reference to CBB play. That's just the way it is.

---

I never saw a video of a basketball game in their glory days, and the fact that this discussion now let me see cal in the NC game is amazing (where is part 2?)

Now I hear about 'cagers"

The hockey reference, fans throwing things on the court, etc makes today's game tame in comparison

---

It is amazing how much you can learn in 5 minutes on the Bear Insider.

That two handed set shot is really something. Interesting seeing the proper hand positioning relative to today's shot. I think I'd miss the entire backboard.

joe amos yaks said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

---

I never saw a video of a basketball game in their glory days, and the fact that this discussion now let me see cal in the NC game is amazing (where is part 2?)

Now I hear about 'cagers"

The hockey reference, fans throwing things on the court, etc makes today's game tame in comparison

---

Of course you remember the "hot penny" game? Ask Andy Wolfe. I think the incident happened during/after his era at Cal.

". . . Cal's home crowd fans were so notoriously rowdy during Wolfe's era that he was once asked by the game officials to get on the public-address microphone and calm them down, otherwise Cal would have to forfeit. . ."

---

Now they are looking more at their phones during a game, giving them less time to be rowdy.

UrsaMajor said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

A "three second area" created in 1936 was to prevent offensive players from "camping out" around the basket -- which they did -- and to eliminate some rough play and smash-mouth aspects of the game -- good grief! The three second area was 6 feet wide. It was known as the "key". In 1951 the CBB three second area was widened to 12 feet. It never was 8 feet. How about that?

Also, why are CBB players sometimes referred to as "cagers"?

Answer: Before 1932 chicken wire (or chain-link) fencing was often installed around the court in an effort to make the game go faster by eliminating all the out of bounds delays, and it served as a buffer to protect players from rowdy spectators -- and vice versa -- and from objects being hurled onto the court -- which there often was.

When games got physical the wire fences were used by players to body check each other like in hockey -- and they did -- often resulting in injury. So in ca.1933 "cage" fences were removed; however, some more seasoned ("experienced") sportswriters still use the term "cagers" in reference to CBB play. That's just the way it is.

---

To further educate: it was known as the key because the circle around the foul line was 12' in diameter, thus creating a "keyhole" shape. It was widened (in 1951) because of the dominance of tall centers. Some even experimented with avoiding 3" by straddling the lane! It was widened to 12' and then later (in the NBA) to 18'.

Some early rules (Joe, HTP, and SFCity probably remember...):
initially dribbling needed to be with 2 hands and limited to 1 bounce
initially dribbler couldn't shoot, only someone who caught a pas
center jump after every made basket (until the 30's)
losing the ball out of bounds was a foul

---

Hey Ursa, cut it out. I'm not as old as those guys. These stories you are telling here, even my father never told me, and he was Cal Frosh, 1931.

I like the idea of "the dribbler couldn't shoot, only someone who caught a pass." Now that would cure the long-standing (through the reign of several Cal coaches) problem of too much dribbling.

From Ursa:

Some early rules (Joe, HTP, and SFCity probably remember...):

initially dribbling needed to be with 2 hands and limited to 1 bounce
initially dribbler couldn't shoot, only someone who caught a pas
center jump after every made basket (until the 30's)
losing the ball out of bounds was a foul

How about the rules in the girls'/women's game? I didn't see many female games growing up, but remember there were 6 players per side and 3 players on each side of the center line with the players only playing offense or defense and not being allowed to cross the center line. Any other differences?

Now, the best female players can dunk off an alley oop pass, like the new stanfurd recruit who has been shown to do on YouTube.

roqmoq said:

---

From Ursa:

Now, the best female players can dunk off an alley oop pass, like the new stanfurd recruit who has been shown to do on YouTube.

---

Kristine can dunk

roqmoq said:

---

From Ursa:



How about the rules in the girls'/women's game? I didn't see many female games growing up, but remember there were 6 players per side and 3 players on each side of the center line with the players only playing offense or defense and not being allowed to cross the center line. Any other differences?

Now, the best female players can dunk off an alley oop pass, like the new stanfurd recruit who has been shown to do on YouTube.

---

That's still the high school game in Oklahoma (a colleague of mine played hs ball in Stillwater).

UrsaMajor said:

---

roqmoq said:

---

From Ursa:



How about the rules in the girls'/women's game? I didn't see many female games growing up, but remember there were 6 players per side and 3 players on each side of the center line with the players only playing offense or defense and not being allowed to cross the center line. Any other differences?

Now, the best female players can dunk off an alley oop pass, like the new stanfurd recruit who has been shown to do on YouTube.

---

That's still the high school game in Oklahoma (a colleague of mine played hs ball in Stillwater).

---

Your colleague must be a at least mid-40s: Oklahoma became the last state with six-on-six back in 1995.

GMP said:

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

roqmoq said:

---

From Ursa:



How about the rules in the girls'/women's game? I didn't see many female games growing up, but remember there were 6 players per side and 3 players on each side of the center line with the players only playing offense or defense and not being allowed to cross the center line. Any other differences?

Now, the best female players can dunk off an alley oop pass, like the new stanfurd recruit who has been shown to do on YouTube.

---

That's still the high school game in Oklahoma (a colleague of mine played hs ball in Stillwater).

---

Your colleague must be a at least mid-40s: Oklahoma became the last state with six-on-six back in 1995.

---

Correct; mid-40s.