Golden One said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nobody cares about the Cal degree. Isn"t it obvious. we try to sell it but all they care about is basketball.What a joke.

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You got that right. It's about time that people on that board recognize that cold, hard fact. The 4 and 5 star athletes select a school based on its basketball attributes with absolutely zero consideration about the value of the degree. The same is probably true about most 3 star athletes. Our academic reputation means absolutely nothing to them, with very, very few exceptions .

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This is laergely true, but Sueing might be one of the few exceptions. He's halfway through college. NBA future? Highly unlikely. So what else is he going to be doing down the road? What successful people has Gonzaga ever produced, outside of Bing Crosby?

Big C said:

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Golden One said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nobody cares about the Cal degree. Isn"t it obvious. we try to sell it but all they care about is basketball.What a joke.

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You got that right. It's about time that people on that board recognize that cold, hard fact. The 4 and 5 star athletes select a school based on its basketball attributes with absolutely zero consideration about the value of the degree. The same is probably true about most 3 star athletes. Our academic reputation means absolutely nothing to them, with very, very few exceptions .

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This is laergely true, but Sueing might be one of the few exceptions. He's halfway through college. NBA future? Highly unlikely. So what else is he going to be doing down the road? What successful people has Gonzaga ever produced, outside of Bing Crosby?

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Chance to go to the Final Four like Jordan Mathews?

oskidunker said:

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Nobody cares about the Cal degree. Isn"t it obvious. we try to sell it but all they care about is basketball.What a joke.

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1. It is a comparative advantage. Shareef cared enough to get his degree even after leaving early and getting $millions in the NBA. It is the single most important reason we landed Jaylen Brown. So it gives us an opportunity other schools don't have for certain unique athletes: academically oriented but turned off by elite private schools like Stanford and Duke.
2. A lot of parents care. Kids generally want their parents' approval on a decision like this. The academics won't overcome major objections on basketball issues but they definitely help if that box can be checked.

Golden One said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nobody cares about the Cal degree. Isn"t it obvious. we try to sell it but all they care about is basketball.What a joke.

---

You got that right. It's about time that people on that board recognize that cold, hard fact. The 4 and 5 star athletes select a school based on its basketball attributes with absolutely zero consideration about the value of the degree. The same is probably true about most 3 star athletes. Our academic reputation means absolutely nothing to them, with very, very few exceptions .

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It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

3-5 of our starters do not value the genre. Austin probably would leave if he had not already transferred. Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying. If you are an nba prospect it doesn't matter where you go. If you don't have it and hope better coaching will get you there, you are probably dreaming. Just my opinion

I don't know what to say about Dyson,or what he is thinking or what he wants. He should stay and get the degree. If Fox finds someone better, he might not be welcomed back. In dangerous territory. Suing and Vanover can probably find better homes than SM P U.

UrsaMajor said:

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It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

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Sueing has almost no chance of becoming an NBA player. His skills are utterly ordinary for his height.

Yogi Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

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Sueing has almost no chance of becoming an NBA player. His skills are utterly ordinary for his height.

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The definition of a delusion is belief in something that is demonstrably untrue.

Golden One said:

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The 4 and 5 star athletes select a school based on its basketball attributes with absolutely zero consideration about the value of the degree.

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Wow! That's quite a statement with no qualifications whatsoever. Because it was stated so authoritatively, it must be true.

Yogi Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

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Sueing has almost no chance of becoming an NBA player. His skills are utterly ordinary for his height.

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Under tough D his shooting mechanics won't deliver. That's why there is only one Jim Furyk.

oskidunker said:

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3-5 of our starters do not value the genre. Austin probably would leave if he had not already transferred. Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying. If you are an nba prospect it doesn't matter where you go. If you don't have it and hope better coaching will get you there, you are probably dreaming. Just my opinion

I don't know what to say about Dyson,or what he is thinking or what he wants. He should stay and get the degree. If Fox finds someone better, he might not be welcomed back. In dangerous territory. Suing and Vanover can probably find better homes than SM P U.

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It shouldn't be hard for Fox to find someone better than Dyson.

Will any of the 4 star or Edwards, the 5 star want to follow Fox to Cal?

UrsaMajor said:

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Golden One said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nobody cares about the Cal degree. Isn"t it obvious. we try to sell it but all they care about is basketball.What a joke.

---

You got that right. It's about time that people on that board recognize that cold, hard fact. The 4 and 5 star athletes select a school based on its basketball attributes with absolutely zero consideration about the value of the degree. The same is probably true about most 3 star athletes. Our academic reputation means absolutely nothing to them, with very, very few exceptions .

---

It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

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It means something to SOME parents. I think there is something that people just don't get here.

1. Many elite basketball players don't care at all about the education. College is the next level for basketball. I think everyone here gets that.

2. Many DO care about getting a good education. What they DON'T care so much is getting an ELITE education. This is what people here don't seem to get. Deciding to play for Kentucky or Oregon or SMU doesn't mean they don't care about about their education. Think about it. I'd say most here think we are crippling ourselves by requiring a 3.0 GPA, which these days is extraordinarily easy to get. Almost no kid looking to get into an elite college is hovering around a 3.0 in high school. For those kids, going to Oregon is giving them almost all the benefits out of a college education that they hope for. They are already getting a better education than they hoped for.

There are very few elite basketball players who are also elite students. I think we'd find that most elite students will take the elite academic path, but they do have options to take the elite path for both basketball and academics. But elite basketball players who are not elite students either don't care or are satisfied with a good education which you can get at hundreds of universities.

Offering an elite education is a benefit to us with a small portion of the recruiting pool and we should certainly use it. However, if we are going to just pass off those who will go to a "lesser" school to improve their basketball situation, we might as well get out of the business. Plenty of solid students see basketball as their priority. Not seeking the highest reputation degree doesn't mean a student doesn't care about their education.

Yogi Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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It means something to parents--who may or may not have influence in a particular situation. I have heard that there is conflict in the Sueing household--mother wants him to stay and earn a Cal degree; father wants him to make it in the NBA.

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Sueing has almost no chance of becoming an NBA player. His skills are utterly ordinary for his height.

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Maybe he wants to chill at SDSU? Play some ball, see beautiful people at the beach and on campus, and occasionally go to class if he feels like it...
Not a bad life for a young person for a few years.

So far pretty close to my best case:

PG: Austin, Brown
SG: Bradley
SF: Gordon
PF: Anticevich, Kelly
C: Thorpe

C'mon guys, get outta that transfer portal!

Yep

If I read the roster correctly, Cal has five returning players and three commitments. That would mean Cal has eight scholarship players now that Sueing and Vanover are now officially moving on ....

Guards - Austin, JHD, Bradley, Brown (f), Smith (f)
Forwards - Anticevich, Kelly,
Center - Thorpe (f)

RJABear said:

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Yep

If I read the roster correctly, Cal has five returning players and three commitments. That would mean Cal has eight scholarship players now that Sueing and Vanover are now officially moving on ....

Guards - Austin, JHD, Bradley, Brown (f), Smith (f)
Forwards - Anticevich, Kelly,
Center - Thorpe (f)

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There's 9 scholarship players so far:

1 - P. Austin / J. Brown
2 - M. Bradley / JHD
3 - J. Gordon /
4 - Anticevich / Kuany
5 - A. Kelly / D. Thorpe

Looks like the staff wants to add at least 1 more (the Greek recruit), maybe 2 and have 3 or 4 scholarships to use for 2020.

tsubamoto2001 said:

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RJABear said:

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Yep

If I read the roster correctly, Cal has five returning players and three commitments. That would mean Cal has eight scholarship players now that Sueing and Vanover are now officially moving on ....

Guards - Austin, JHD, Bradley, Brown (f), Smith (f)
Forwards - Anticevich, Kelly,
Center - Thorpe (f)

---

There's 9 scholarship players so far:

1 - P. Austin / J. Brown
2 - M. Bradley / JHD
3 - J. Gordon /
4 - Anticevich / Kuany
5 - A. Kelly / D. Thorpe

Looks like the staff wants to add at least 1 more (the Greek recruit), maybe 2 and have 3 or 4 scholarships to use for 2020.

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Goodness Gordon better be good lol. We better get our Greek freak as his backup bc we're super thin at the 3.

Maybe the PWO Logan Alters will be serviceable. Sounds like he is a 1-2. Also need help at the 2. I hope Fox can make this work somehow where we are reasonably competitive.

Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

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The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

The NBA will find good players no matter where they are.

concernedparent said:

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Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

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The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

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While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

BeachedBear said:

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concernedparent said:

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Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

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The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

---

While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

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Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

Quote:

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Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

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Can I disagree a bit on Bradley? I live in a city in which the NBA team, aside from Bradley Beal,
can masquerade as a G-League team far too easily. => there are plenty of guys in The League who
have 10% of Matt's determination........if

Just when we thought Wyking Jones was the bottom of the barrel. Cal finding new ways to drill to the depths of the Pacific Ocean

touchdownbears43 said:

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Just when we thought Wyking Jones was the bottom of the barrel. Cal finding new ways to drill to the depths of the Pacific Ocean

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I wouldn't say the 2019-20 roster looks promising, but I felt the same about the the 2018-19 roster before Bradley and Vanover got going. If nobody steps up I'm afraid we'll suck big time. But if a couple of the returning players improve, a couple of the freshies can play, and the coaching is competent we might crawl out of the deepest depths.

concernedparent said:

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BeachedBear said:

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concernedparent said:

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Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

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The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

---

While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

---

Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

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Predicting NBA potential of Cal players is always fun. My thoughts:
1. Vanover has no chance at the NBA. Would be pick-and-rolled to death. 7 footers who can guard the post and shoot 3s like Brad Lohaus were interesting in the 90s but have no place in the modern game since traditional post play barely exists.
2. Sueing has the right size, pretty good athletic ability, and I think being left-handed is an advantage. But he needs to go a long way in terms of skills development, particularly his shooting and ball-handling. He is a definite maybe. I could see the Spurs develop him as they have many others.
3. Bradley is interesting. This is the era of the power guard like Marcus Smart and Patrick Beverley. Bradley is not as tall as one would like, but he can use his strength to guard multiple positions. He is a little like the bulked up Clippers version of Ty Wallace, but with a better shot though not as tall. However, I think he is a step or two too slow to make the NBA. I think his slowness is more important than his height.

Sluggo

Your 3 points are exactly in line with my thinking Sluggo.. Though I put even lower odds on Sueing.

sluggo said:

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concernedparent said:

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BeachedBear said:

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concernedparent said:

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Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

---

The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

---

While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

---

Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

---

Predicting NBA potential of Cal players is always fun. My thoughts:
1. Vanover has no chance at the NBA. Would be pick-and-rolled to death. 7 footers who can guard the post and shoot 3s like Brad Lohaus were interesting in the 90s but have no place in the modern game since traditional post play barely exists.
2. Sueing has the right size, pretty good athletic ability, and I think being left-handed is an advantage. But he needs to go a long way in terms of skills development, particularly his shooting and ball-handling. He is a definite maybe. I could see the Spurs develop him as they have many others.
3. Bradley is interesting. This is the era of the power guard like Marcus Smart and Patrick Beverley. Bradley is not as tall as one would like, but he can use his strength to guard multiple positions. He is a little like the bulked up Clippers version of Ty Wallace, but with a better shot though not as tall. However, I think he is a step or two too slow to make the NBA. I think his slowness is more important than his height.

Sluggo

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I would remind you that both Vanover and Bradley are FRESHMEN. As such, most predictions for players like this, especially 7-footers, are not likely to be accurate. 7-footers usually take a long time to develop, usually 2-3 years in college, and often they don't develop enough until they have been in the NBA a year or two. Vanover, in my opinion is already ahead of the curve. He is not Anthony Davis ahead of the curve, but he is ahead of it nevertheless, and has proved he can learn some skills quickly.

Bradley has to learn he should not attempt every shot he wants to take when gets close to the basket. He is too stubborn. That is his personality, and is also shown in his propensity to foul. He needs to learn to control all this, and then needs to learn to be more creative with his shots near the basket. Learn some new ones. He needs to admit that he is only 6-4, and height means something when you get inside. One thing it means is that bigs have longer arms to go along with their height, and he needs to allow for that when he chooses his shots near the basket. He just can't always be the bull who ran over people in high school. He's pretty good now, but it will take a year or two more to be a really good D1 player.

As for Sueing, he just has too many limitations. He did not improve a lot from year one to year two, except in rebounding and a little on defense. I don't know if he was a better rebounder just because Okoroh and Lee were gone, and there was no one else to get the boards, or whether he was actually a better rebounder. He needs to rebuild his shot, the form, because it is a little unorthodox and not dependable or easily repeatable. It is a slow release. He needs to get stronger so he doesn't have to waste time cocking his wrists. And finally, he has no right hand. He can't or won't go to his right on the drive. It is easy for defenders to overplay him. A good defender will be able to shut him down. He doesn't shoot well from outside, and he learns to catch and shoot, not just dribble to create all his shots.

SF City - I think you are spot on with Bradley and Sueing - I just dont see enough skills with Sueing nor the desire that can take good skills and make them great. Wallace has the desire, not convinced Sueing does. And I hope Wallace learns to shoot and pass at some point.

Not sure I agree on Conor, but hope I am wrong. Seems like a good kid, even if he did just abandon us.

SFCityBear said:

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sluggo said:

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concernedparent said:

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BeachedBear said:

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concernedparent said:

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Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

---

The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

---

While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

---

Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

---

Predicting NBA potential of Cal players is always fun. My thoughts:
1. Vanover has no chance at the NBA. Would be pick-and-rolled to death. 7 footers who can guard the post and shoot 3s like Brad Lohaus were interesting in the 90s but have no place in the modern game since traditional post play barely exists.
2. Sueing has the right size, pretty good athletic ability, and I think being left-handed is an advantage. But he needs to go a long way in terms of skills development, particularly his shooting and ball-handling. He is a definite maybe. I could see the Spurs develop him as they have many others.
3. Bradley is interesting. This is the era of the power guard like Marcus Smart and Patrick Beverley. Bradley is not as tall as one would like, but he can use his strength to guard multiple positions. He is a little like the bulked up Clippers version of Ty Wallace, but with a better shot though not as tall. However, I think he is a step or two too slow to make the NBA. I think his slowness is more important than his height.

Sluggo

---

I would remind you that both Vanover and Bradley are FRESHMEN. As such, most predictions for players like this, especially 7-footers, are not likely to be accurate. 7-footers usually take a long time to develop, usually 2-3 years in college, and often they don't develop enough until they have been in the NBA a year or two. Vanover, in my opinion is already ahead of the curve. He is not Anthony Davis ahead of the curve, but he is ahead of it nevertheless, and has proved he can learn some skills quickly.

Bradley has to learn he should not attempt every shot he wants to take when gets close to the basket. He is too stubborn. That is his personality, and is also shown in his propensity to foul. He needs to learn to control all this, and then needs to learn to be more creative with his shots near the basket. Learn some new ones. He needs to admit that he is only 6-4, and height means something when you get inside. One thing it means is that bigs have longer arms to go along with their height, and he needs to allow for that when he chooses his shots near the basket. He just can't always be the bull who ran over people in high school. He's pretty good now, but it will take a year or two more to be a really good D1 player.

As for Sueing, he just has too many limitations. He did not improve a lot from year one to year two, except in rebounding and a little on defense. I don't know if he was a better rebounder just because Okoroh and Lee were gone, and there was no one else to get the boards, or whether he was actually a better rebounder. He needs to rebuild his shot, the form, because it is a little unorthodox and not dependable or easily repeatable. It is a slow release. He needs to get stronger so he doesn't have to waste time cocking his wrists. And finally, he has no right hand. He can't or won't go to his right on the drive. It is easy for defenders to overplay him. A good defender will be able to shut him down. He doesn't shoot well from outside, and he learns to catch and shoot, not just dribble to create all his shots.

---

I am aware of what class they are in. 7 footers barely play in the NBA right now. Particularly ones with bad feet like he has. Who is he like who is in the NBA right now? Vanover is in the wrong era, just like Rabb, too bad they did not come along in the 90s. Plus he is a year older than his class. I feel very confident in my position.

You criticize Bradley's decision making. That is much easier to fix than skills. Even harder to improve is athleticism. By NBA standards, which is what I am taking about, he is too slow.

I am not sure why you place such importance on freshman to sophomore improvement for Sueing, especially when he was on a historically bad team with a historically bad coach. Sure he needs to develop his skills as I said, but being the right size with the right athleticism is a great place to start. He certainly has a chance.

Sluggo

Vanover has got a great chance of making it to the NBA. You cannot coach height.

According to the Boston Globe, 1 out of every 6 people in the US (edit) who are 7 feet tall will get to the NBA. If the 7-footer has any athletic ability, then they are decent practice fodder.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/west/2014/03/09/footers-percent-chance-playing-nba/fNnbP8zybYfXZtsw0eYPDK/story.html

Since there are 2800 people alive today that are 7 feet tall, does that mean that there are around 450 7 footers alive today that have played in the NBA?

I re-read. the study said one out of every 6 US citizens who are 7-feet tall. Guess the odds are worse for 7-footers in Pakistan .... I updated the previous post

Oh sure: I'm going to commit to Cal where I can take an engineering class at 8:00AM with 75 other 4.0 students. Yep----thgat sure beats UA and USC all to hell. Where do I sign??

sluggo said:

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SFCityBear said:

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sluggo said:

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concernedparent said:

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BeachedBear said:

---

concernedparent said:

---

Quote:

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Ironically the player most likely to have a shot at the nba, Bradley, is staying.

---

The 6'3, relatively unathletic shooting guard has the best chance... Not the 7'3 center with good touch and a 3 point shot. Or the long, crafty 6'7 wing.

---

While I wouldn't say Bradley is a lock for the NBA, I'd say Vanover has the best chance, if he can add some good weight and athleticism and doesn't succumb to the career ending injuries that many of his stature suffer from. As for Sueing, he may have hit his ceiling - which is mid-level Pac 12, not NBA. His statistics and effectiveness may improve at Ohio State due to coaching and system. For him to be attractive to NBA scouts, he would need to drastically improve three areas, which seem hard for someone to improve at this point in their development. Those would be his defense, outside shot and mental game (all three of which Bradley is probably ahead of Sueing at this point in time). Bradley is likely to play four years and if he continues to improve over that time as most top 200 players do, I'd say his NBA prospects are better than Sueing - but still unlikely to be drafted.

---

Bradley's size and athletic limitations alone make him basically undraftable. I doubt Sueing will make it to the NBAhe's more likely to be a overseas regular, but it would not surprise me to see him make it either. He has enough tools to build upon. Let's not forget how much better Ty Wallace (another "toolsy" player) got between his sophomore and junior year.

---

Predicting NBA potential of Cal players is always fun. My thoughts:
1. Vanover has no chance at the NBA. Would be pick-and-rolled to death. 7 footers who can guard the post and shoot 3s like Brad Lohaus were interesting in the 90s but have no place in the modern game since traditional post play barely exists.
2. Sueing has the right size, pretty good athletic ability, and I think being left-handed is an advantage. But he needs to go a long way in terms of skills development, particularly his shooting and ball-handling. He is a definite maybe. I could see the Spurs develop him as they have many others.
3. Bradley is interesting. This is the era of the power guard like Marcus Smart and Patrick Beverley. Bradley is not as tall as one would like, but he can use his strength to guard multiple positions. He is a little like the bulked up Clippers version of Ty Wallace, but with a better shot though not as tall. However, I think he is a step or two too slow to make the NBA. I think his slowness is more important than his height.

Sluggo

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I would remind you that both Vanover and Bradley are FRESHMEN. As such, most predictions for players like this, especially 7-footers, are not likely to be accurate. 7-footers usually take a long time to develop, usually 2-3 years in college, and often they don't develop enough until they have been in the NBA a year or two. Vanover, in my opinion is already ahead of the curve. He is not Anthony Davis ahead of the curve, but he is ahead of it nevertheless, and has proved he can learn some skills quickly.

Bradley has to learn he should not attempt every shot he wants to take when gets close to the basket. He is too stubborn. That is his personality, and is also shown in his propensity to foul. He needs to learn to control all this, and then needs to learn to be more creative with his shots near the basket. Learn some new ones. He needs to admit that he is only 6-4, and height means something when you get inside. One thing it means is that bigs have longer arms to go along with their height, and he needs to allow for that when he chooses his shots near the basket. He just can't always be the bull who ran over people in high school. He's pretty good now, but it will take a year or two more to be a really good D1 player.

As for Sueing, he just has too many limitations. He did not improve a lot from year one to year two, except in rebounding and a little on defense. I don't know if he was a better rebounder just because Okoroh and Lee were gone, and there was no one else to get the boards, or whether he was actually a better rebounder. He needs to rebuild his shot, the form, because it is a little unorthodox and not dependable or easily repeatable. It is a slow release. He needs to get stronger so he doesn't have to waste time cocking his wrists. And finally, he has no right hand. He can't or won't go to his right on the drive. It is easy for defenders to overplay him. A good defender will be able to shut him down. He doesn't shoot well from outside, and he learns to catch and shoot, not just dribble to create all his shots.

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I am aware of what class they are in. 7 footers barely play in the NBA right now. Particularly ones with bad feet like he has. Who is he like who is in the NBA right now? Vanover is in the wrong era, just like Rabb, too bad they did not come along in the 90s. Plus he is a year older than his class. I feel very confident in my position.

You criticize Bradley's decision making. That is much easier to fix than skills. Even harder to improve is athleticism. By NBA standards, which is what I am taking about, he is too slow.

I am not sure why you place such importance on freshman to sophomore improvement for Sueing, especially when he was on a historically bad team with a historically bad coach. Sure he needs to develop his skills as I said, but being the right size with the right athleticism is a great place to start. He certainly has a chance.

Sluggo

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My money is on Vanover. Check back with me in 4 years.

Wasn't criticizing only Bradley's decision making skills. Of course that can be improved. I was criticizing his stubbornness. Remember the high school videos with the fights he got into in games? All that is emotional, just like being a bull when he drives the lane. One good girlfriend or wife might be able to cure him, but some guys never get cured of emotional immaturity.

Sueing has some athleticism, but when I watch these NBA playoffs, he does not have that kind of athleticism, not even close. As for the right size, he is 6-7. That is almost undersized for SF in the NBA, but a good size for SG. However, he is not fast enough or anywhere near skilled enough with the ball to play a guard, nor does he shoot well enough to play SG. He has a lot to work on. He has two more years to work on things, and my point was that because he showed little improvement from year one to year two, then it might indicate he is slow to improve. Learning to use your off hand takes years to perfect, I believe, unless one is born ambidextrous. He is a decent, even good PAC12 player in a down year for the PAC12. I wish him the best for the future. If he works hard, maybe he can play after college in a good league, if that is his dream.

Can anybody identify players currently in the NBA who have the approximate skill set of Vanover? If so, how are they doing? Or is he capable of breaking the proverbial mold?