TheSouseFamily said:

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No doubt that Tony Bennett struck gold with the 2016 class that included Hunter, Guy and Jerome, but in general I wouldn't say he's recruited a ton of highly recruited stars (in the traditional sense). He's looking for different qualities and skill sets than most coaches to play his style. He obviously recruits for defense which is not something most coaches do Bennet's process has allowed his teams to perform at a far higher level than the recruiting rankings.

Here are UVA's 247 class rankings:
2019: 23rd
2018: 65th
2017: 98th
2016: 7th
2015: 62nd
2014: 32nd
2013: 53rd
2012: 15th
2011: 39th

I'd put Jay Wright in a similar category of coaches looking for different things than simply who is ranked highest. Villanova won two titles in the 2010s without a single top 25 recruiting class as the basis for those teams.

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Your data is correct. Until Bennett got that 2016 class and won the national championship, the knock on him was that his defensive style worked great in the regular season but not in the tournament. The 2016 class gave Bennett players who could score plus his usual awesome defense. This year, the offense has been pretty bad (352nd in Division I), but the defense is ranked #1. Many UVA fans blame the weak recruiting classes in 2017 and 2018 for the lack of firepower. The team will probably barely make the tournament. Even with a coach like Bennett, recruiting guys who can score makes a big difference.

When I pointed out that Suing had no left hand, it was not say he was not a good player for Cal, which he was. He scored when others couldn't, got some rebounds and played decent defense. If he wants to improve, what he most needs, IMO, is to be able to drive to his right. Otherwise, he will always be predictable, and he could make himself harder to defend, if he could drive left or right. I was disappointed that he left, reneging on his commitment, as it made Fox and the Cal program look bad for a moment.

Justice Is a crafty player with a high hoops IQ. He was also a good rebounder and solid defender. He had a broken 3 point shot but was still decent.

A junior Justice would be a starter at the 3 (and occasionally 4) every game. Bradley would move over to 2, and we would have played our freshmen bigs less minutes

Assuming he bought into Foxes coaching he is exactly the type of player we want and would have won more games if he stayed

Not sure if anyone (or at least most) think differently

Sueing was a very solid player for us. What made him unique was his instinct and high basketball IQ. Right place, right time and always under control. He wasn't a plus athlete and he was a below average shooter (something like 45% from 2 and 30% from three) but he made up for it in a lot of other ways like getting to the line a lot (and being an excellent foul shooter). Also he was a terrific rebounder for his size and was solid with the ball, limiting turnovers. He just did a lot of the little things right and had an effect on the game far larger than some of his numbers would otherwise reflect.

PtownBear1 said:

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I think what gets lost in all the lamenting over McNeil, Vanover, and Sueing is that none of these players were high level recruits. IIRC Sueing was a local plan b type and Vanover wasn't even rated.

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FWIW Rivals and 247 rated both Sueing and Vanover as 3-stars. ESPN rated Sueing as 4-stars and Vanover as 3-stars. IMHO Vanover was too physically underdeveloped to be rated higher but he had a lot of potential. Sueing was much closer to what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

Sueing was a Mater Dei kid that got late recruiting interest because he only transferred in from Hawaii during his Junior year. We beat Utah for him, IIRC.

Vanover was a Findlay Prep product (like Jorge). I think he was rated accurately for the reasons you noted.

stu said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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I think what gets lost in all the lamenting over McNeil, Vanover, and Sueing is that none of these players were high level recruits. IIRC Sueing was a local plan b type and Vanover wasn't even rated.

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FWIW Rivals and 247 rated both Sueing and Vanover as 3-stars. ESPN rated Sueing as 4-stars and Vanover as 3-stars. IMHO Vanover was too physically underdeveloped to be rated higher but he had a lot of potential. Sueing was much closer to what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

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Sueing was a good all-around player. His numbers for us last year almost fit the profile of a marginal all-conference player (although he was running up those numbers on a lousy team). A classic college-level small forward, with the one thing holding him back being his inconsistent outside shot.

There was something about his attitude that vaguely rubbed me the wrong way. Remember his eye-rolling at the now-infamous Meet Coach Fox speech? He demonstrated a number of little things like that on the court, like he thought he deserved X number of shots, or that he could cruise along at 99% effort, or leave the "dirty work" to other players. Impossible to say what was really in his head, but it was the impression he gave me.

Nonetheless, we really could of used a player of that talent, at that position, this season.

souse: always appreciate your 'inside" info--thanks for your contributions..

ursa: You have lots of inside info due to your stature in the program. More inside stuff if possible, please.

Agree Big C. There was much to like about Sueing but also some intangibles that I did not find endearing. One trait I love to see in players in any sport is a high motor and intensity on the court/field/pool. Several times last season, while watching him play live at Haas, I observed Sueing react late to a loose ball and arrive after the opponent.

On one occasion at an important juncture of the ASU game, a Sun Devil player was in a worse position than Sueing to grab possession of a loose ball but that player got an earlier jump and dove on the ground for the ball. ASU earned the possession, scored a basket and went on an extended run. To be fair, Remy Martin got hot and hit a few threes which extended the lead beyond the point we could make a comeback. I thought at the time, and again while listening to the post-game radio show during the drive home, that the momentum of the game turned hard at that particular moment. The ASU player clearly wanted the ball more. I never felt after that play that we had the motor or intensity to tip the scales back in our favor. That is not entirely on Sueing, but it did illustrate to me something similar to what you seemed to also see.

KoreAmBear said:

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Sad to say because he is a local boy (went to high school in Hawaii before transferring to Mater Dei), his body language was poor when things went wrong (McNeil too but more in a dejected way, whereas Sueing was more like an I don't want to be here look). I'm sure that's part of the growing processing, but he was one of the leaders of the team last year and that wasn't going to help the team.

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KAB-totally agree, I think you nailed the description of both. Sueing acted like he "didn't want to be there" and was above it all (such as diving on the floor). And McNeil just seemed bummed and dejected by it all. I ran into him on Telegraph Avenue once after a game (a heartbreaking, close loss IIRC) and tried to thank him and encourage him for his efforts.