movielover said:

---

That's the point - compared to Ukraine, some 'pro-Russian' individuals claim their casualties aren't high.

This is an old-fashioned war fought from great distances much of the time. By Russia using long-range artillery, aided by Iranian drones, they can avoid a lot of close combat.

Interwebs: "Russia also has access to a large number of other artillery systems: 9A52-4 "Tornado" MLRS: up to 90km range. BM-30 "Smerch" MLRS: 70 to 90km range. 2S7 "Pion" 203mm heavy artillery: 37,5 to 55km range."

That's the distance from San Francisco to San Jose.

---

You've been caught posting obviously false Russian propaganda around casualties - as recently as a few days ago when you posted a tweet referencing CNN which was completely fabricated. So you are one of the 'pro-Russian individuals' making claims about casualties.

As for your claim that the war is fought from great distances "much of the time", it's also true that Russia has employed the "throwing waves of meat" approach which has resulted in mass Russian casualties in various theaters. Vuhledar is one prominent recent example but it's happened in Bakhmut for more than half this war. By some accounts, Russia is suffering extreme casualty imbalances in Bakhmut which may be contributing to Ukraine's considerations in maintaining Bakhmut despite it potentially not being the most strategic position to hold. If you want to know what a low casualty rate might look like, consider every US war since Vietnam. People in the US freaked out when a terrorist killed 13 service members in Afghanistan at the time we pulled out - it was a tragedy - but Putin and the Kremlin don't value their troops and willingly sacrifice them in order to inflict damage, even when they are on the wrong end of the imbalance.

A NATO assessment shows that Russia lost 5 times as many forces in Bakhmut than Ukraine

This still means heavy casualties on the Ukrainian side but provides a window into why Ukraine is staying put for now in Bakhmut

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) March 7, 2023

Russia has taken 20,000 to 30,000 casualties in trying to take Bakhmut, killed to wounded ratio could be worse than one to three - Western officials, speaking on condition of anonymity

— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) March 7, 2023

Battle for Bakhmut "may well last for another month," the official said, or "Ukrainians could decide to leave within a week". Nobody knows in short, but is it still worth Ukraine fighting to defend a small city of no great strategic significance?

— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) March 7, 2023

For Russia generally? Three to one. Much lower for Ukraine, maybe even 10 to 1

— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) March 7, 2023

Good thread here as well:

Any intense engagement between Ukraine and Russia always hurts Russia far more due to the steady collapse of its military medical system under the weight of Mobik casualties since September 2022.

See the UK MoD intelligence chart below⬇️
2/11 pic.twitter.com/51dPsWwTze

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) March 6, 2023

We're in the second year of this war.

Summer 2023 is going to be where Ukrainian medical care makes its long term effect known on the battlefield -- because by then, half the Ukrainian soldiers wounded in 2022 will have worked their way through the

8/11

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) March 6, 2023

...system as mentioned beforehand by me and many others).

Russian soldiers who have lost feet from trench foot and either/both feet and hands from frost bite in 2021/2022 or the current 2022/2023 winter won't be back either.

That's going to gut punch Russian military

10/11

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) March 6, 2023

Now, of course, we all know that you and others are likely to respond with the Russian propaganda that Putin wants everyone to believe. If that propaganda were true, Russia would have won this war last spring, like all of the propagandists predicted. You should be very skeptical of that Russian propaganda rather than posting it here as if it were remotely accurate.

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

And trench foot somehow magically affects Russians, but not Ukrainians. OK.

Sky News, 3 minutes, pivot away from Bakhmut.

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

---

Agreed. Lots of spin. And nobody is perfect.

But we do know that NATO and European Command had to admit that they're critically low on ammunition. And they've had 8, 9 deployments. We also know Bakhmut became key, and it takes 3x the force to overcome a defensive position.

(Prior to that, the Ukrainian General was essentially pleading for a whole new army in The Economist.)

The next phase / question may be - where are the next defensible positions for Ukraine? Are there great natural positions to hunker down, or will the next battles be easier for Russia?

NATO leaders are talking about 3 more years of war, which means a $500 Billion war commitment from America. Germany is starting to lose heavy industry, and the public's support in America and Germany is falling. Europe was saved by a mild winter.

I don't think the public will stick with this proxy war for 3 more years. (Let the name calling commence.)

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

---

Not only that, but the Russian narrative, in addition to being internally inconsistent also has included laughably false claims.

For example, last week ML posted a tweet from his favorite Russian troll, This is obviously fabrication and CNN hasn't reported any such thing.

CNN, citing sources in Ukrainian General Staff reports that on February 28, 2023, the losses of AFU amounted to:

▪️ 259,085 people killed, died from wounds, diseases;
▪️wounded, crippled 246,904;
▪️deserted, as well as missing - 83,952;
▪️ captured - 28 393.

/Intel Slava Z/

— Trollstoy (@Trollstoy88) March 3, 2023

Yet, ML will continue to follow Trollstoy88 and post his obvious Kremlin propaganda when it supports ML's narrative, which as far as I can tell is primarily motivated from his partisan hatred of Biden and democrats. If Trump had been successful in corrupting Zelensky to announce an investigation into the Bidens, he would probably support Ukraine as would ML.

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

---

Agreed. Lots of spin. And nobody is perfect.

But we do know that NATO and European Command had to admit that they're critically low on ammunition. And they've had 8, 9 deployments. We also know Bakhmut became key, and it takes 3x the force to overcome a defensive position.

(Prior to that, the Ukrainian General was essentially pleading for a whole new army in The Economist.)

The next phase / question may be - where are the next defensible positions for Ukraine? Are there great natural positions to hunker down, or will the next battles be easier for Russia?

NATO leaders are talking about 3 more years of war, which means a $500 Billion war commitment from America. Germany is starting to lose heavy industry, and the public's support in America and Germany is falling. Europe was saved by a mild winter.

I don't think the public will stick with this proxy war for 3 more years. (Let the name calling commence.)

---

Where are you coming up with $500B commitment from America? I don't think that's representative at all of what has been spent in the past year. The reality is that we waste hundreds of billions per year on our military and the ROI on the Ukraine spend is probably the highest of any military spend we've had in decades. A lot of the "aid" has come in the form of providing outdated equipment that we purchased and never used and was mothballed or going to be mothballed. I would prefer Putin ends this war and that this military machinery not be put to use but it's hardly fair to consider it entirely additional spend, since a lot of it really isn't.

You cherry pick two sources from a week ago, while avoiding unquestioned sources:

- The Ukr General's Economist interview - begging for a new army (tanks, etc)
- The European Central Command / NATO (USA) telling the world they are low on ammo, and don't have the capability to fulfill the ammunition needed by the Ukranian army
- NATO / US complaining about China potentially providing ammo to Russia
- NPR (State Department) yesterday: NPR: In the Donbas, Russia's vast numbers of troops weigh heavily on Ukraine's defenders
- Financial Times: the deindustrialization of Germany?
- $125 Billion / yr x 4 = $500 Billion
- Cost to rebuild what's left of Ukraine - $500 Billion? (Blackrock)
- polls in America and Europe show support for our proxy war dropping
- Zelensky saying American soldiers will have to die in Ukraine
- Europe burdened with millions of Ukranian refugees

But Unit2Sucks believes Ukraine has magical medical staff Russia doesn't possess? (Humm, have we sent American military doctors to Poland?)

Thank you, Biden, Blinken, and Austin.

The front page of one of Australia's leading newspapers warns that Australia "must prepare" for threat of war with China. Australia is an important defense ally of the United States. Yet another key reminder for Americans to wake up to the very real possibility of war with China pic.twitter.com/dzdg0dzP3y

— Isaac Stone Fish (@isaacstonefish) March 7, 2023

movielover said:

---

You cherry pick two sources from a week ago, while avoiding unquestioned sources:

- The Ukr General's Economist interview - begging for a new army (tanks, etc)
- The European Central Command / NATO (USA) telling the world they are low on ammo, and don't have the capability to fulfill the ammunition needed by the Ukranian army
- NATO / US complaining about China potentially providing ammo to Russia
- NPR (State Department) yesterday: NPR: In the Donbas, Russia's vast numbers of troops weigh heavily on Ukraine's defenders
- Financial Times: the deindustrialization of Germany?
- $125 Billion / yr x 4 = $50] Billion
- polls in America and Europe show support for our proxy war dropping
- Zelensky saying American soldiers will have to die in Ukraine
- Europe burdened with millions of Ukranian refugees

But Unit2Sucks believes Ukraine gas magical medical staff Russia doesn't possess? (Humm, have we sent American military doctors to Poland?)

---

So your response to me pointing out that you once again have fallen for a Kremlin propaganda (despite your prior claim that you can evaluate the credibility of your sources lol) is to pile up more made up claims?

Will you continue to post Trollstoy's Kremlin propaganda or are you done with it now that it's been proven false?

As for your laundry list of claims above, some of them are pure fantasy. You have no support for your $500B claim. The US has not spent $125B in the past year and there is no reason to believe we will have to spend $375B over the next 3 years. The fact that someone says support would need to continue for years does not bear on us.

As for Zelensky saying US soldiers will have to die in Ukraine - that is literally fake news. He never said that but your reliance on Kremlin propaganda has caused you to believe it. If you were paying attention and capable of discerning fact from fiction, what Zelensky actually said was that if Russia overruns Ukraine he might aim for NATO states next and that the US would be forced to provide actual military support including troops.

As for running low on ammo, that's not just a Ukraine problem. Wagner is making the same complaint and you acknowledge that Russia has an ammo problem as well since it's looking for help from China. This is part of the firehose of falsehoods - throwing up a lot of conflicting propaganda without having to reconcile anything. If Russia has unlimited ammo, as you and your propagandists have claimed, why would Wagner be begging for ammo and why would Russia need chinese help?

As for Ukrainian refugees, are you really so disingenuous as to pretend that your solution to the refugee problem is to allow Putin to take over all of Ukraine? You really are going to pretend that will bring Ukrainians back to Ukraine? Give me a break, that will only increase the number of refugees.

I suspect you will ignore all of this and continue to make your false claims because that has been your pattern.

You still have a crush on Trollstoy?

So who's gonna pay for our proxy war in Russia, the Easter Bunny?

I never claimed Russia was low on ammo, more of your fantasies. Russia is an industrial power and according to Colonel McGregor, is firing up to 60,000 rounds a day, up to 10x Ukraines output. Only logical Putin would buttress his capabilities, like getting drones from Iran. They adjusted.

The head of Wagner likes attention. Some claim he desires to be Putin's replacement someday. Possibly the Russian battle group dislikes his peacock moves.

I propose we bring in the former Israeli PM to immediately restart peace talks. No preconditions.

https://images.app.goo.gl/y1D3e92gUfFMFXvz9

movielover said:

---

You still have a crush on Trollstoy?

So who's gonna pay for our proxy war in Russia, the Easter Bunny?

I never claimed Russia was low on ammo, more of your fantasies. Russia is an industrial power and according to Colonel McGregor, is firing up to 60,000 rounds a day, up to 10x Ukraines output. Only logical Putin would buttress his capabilities, like getting drones from Iran. They adjusted.

The head of Wagner likes attention. Some claim he desires to be Putin's replacement someday. Possibly the Russian battle group dislikes his peacock moves.

I propose we bring in the former Israeli PM to immediately restart peace talks. No preconditions.

https://images.app.goo.gl/y1D3e92gUfFMFXvz9

---

If Russia has enough ammo, why would anyone care about China providing more? If all of the Russian propaganda you have recklessly parroted were true, why wouldn't this war have ended months ago? Do you really believe Russia killed over 250k Ukrainian military with 360k other military wounded/defected/captured? I mean seriously, you think that could be true and the war would still be going on without any success by Russia? If Russia was as strong as you would believe from the propaganda you amplify, why would they have gotten destroyed in the turkey shoot in Vuhledar? Why wouldn't they have taken Bakhmut months ago? Why would they have failed time and time again if they were as strong as you claim?

The reality is that Russia isn't even close to winning this war and at this point Putin is just holding on because admitting defeat is a non-starter for him domestically. This invasion has been a complete disaster for Putin and he has achieved precisely zero of his stated objectives.

Avril Haines (our DNI) was grilled by congress today and provided some interesting info. You will dismiss this as propaganda because it doesn't align with the Kremlin propaganda which you consistently fall victim to, but nothing we've seen over the last few months counters what she's saying. Putin is just treading water right now.

Quote:

---

She listed Russia's military constraints as including "personnel and ammunition shortages, dysfunction within the military leadership, exhaustion as well as morale challenges", and high casualty rates.

"Putin likely has a better understanding of the limits of what his military is capable of achieving and appears to be focused on more modest military objectives for now," Haines said.

She claimed US-led sanctions were having an impact on Russia's ability to build more weapons.

"It will be increasingly challenging for them to sustain even the current level of offensive operations in the coming months and consequently, they may fully shift to holding and defending the territories they now occupy," Haines said.

"In short, we do not foresee the Russian military recovering enough this year to make major territorial gains, but Putin most likely calculates the time works in his favour, and prolonging the war, including with potential pauses in the fighting, may be his best remaining pathway to eventually securing Russian strategic interests in Ukraine, even if it takes years."

---

This doesn't mean that she's painting a rosy picture for Ukraine, she acknowledged that defending against the mobik zombie forces being thrown into the meat grinder is preventing Ukraine from making an offensive this spring.

Quote:

---

"At present the Ukrainian armed forces remain locked in a struggle to defend against Russian offences across eastern Ukraine," she said. "And while these Russian assaults are costly for Russia, the extent to which Ukrainian forces are having to draw down their reserves and equipment as well as suffer further casualties will all likely factor into Ukraine's ability to go on the offensive later this spring."

---

You continue to show that you are not a credible observer of this conflict.

movielover said:

---

We also know Bakhmut became key,

---

We don't know that. Russia would like to claim it is, of course, but there are plenty of military experts who think it isn't.

You are accepting the Russian narrative wholesale here.

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

We also know Bakhmut became key,

---

We don't know that. Russia would like to claim it is, of course, but there are plenty of military experts who think it isn't.

You are accepting the Russian narrative wholesale here.

---

Then why did the Ukranian General allegedly want to pull out? And was fired? (Eduard Moskalyov)

Why is Zelensky then sending so many battalions there to die, if it isn't important?

Let's be clear that the Ukranians are brave and fighting heroically, but like many wars being sent to die in Biden, Blinken, and Austin's proxy war.

Avril Haines, who helped direct Obama's extra judicial drone killings?

Wikipedia: "In 2015, Haines, then deputy director of the CIA,[33] was tasked with determining whether CIA personnel should be disciplined for hacking computers of Senate staffers authoring the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA torture. Haines chose not to discipline them, overruling the CIA Inspector General.[34]"

Real winner. Lawyer from the upper west side of Manhattan. I'll take Colonel McGregor over her any day of the week.

I really don't care if Russia runs out of ammo, or not. But maybe Putin sees his large inventory gradually reducing, and he's planning ahead? Maybe he's making sure not to be unprepared like NATO / USA? Yes, I already acknowledged Ukraines victory in Vuhledar two or three times, and posted a video from HistoryLegends on the topic. Something you'll never do.

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

We also know Bakhmut became key,

---

We don't know that. Russia would like to claim it is, of course, but there are plenty of military experts who think it isn't.

You are accepting the Russian narrative wholesale here.

---

Then why did the Ukranian General allegedly want to pull out? And was fired? (Eduard Moskalyov)

Why is Zelensky then sending so many battalions there to die, if it isn't important?

Let's be clear that the Ukranians are brave and fighting heroically, but like many wars being sent to die in Biden, Blinken, and Austin's proxy war.

---

1. Generals can disagree. It happens.

2. This has already been discussed several times in this thread. You should read it some time. It's possible that Ukraine is trying to get Russia to waste their resources on a relatively worthless target, while they appear to be obsessed with capturing it.

⚡️Explosions reported in several cities, Kyiv, Poltava, Lviv, Vinnytsia, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil oblasts amid Russia's mass attack.

Kharkiv Oblast Governor Oleh Syniehubov said at 3:45 a.m. that Russian forces attacked the region. He urged residents to remain in shelters.

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) March 9, 2023

🇺🇦❌🇺🇸CNN: US House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has declined and refused Ukrainian President invitation to visit Ukraine, saying that he does not support “a blank check", implying he wants to know where Ukrainians are spending the money given by US Government.

— AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 (@AZgeopolitics) March 8, 2023

Comments below clip.

Because of such heavy losses people are being taken like this to fight for "freedom and democracy"

This video appeared from Odessa today... pic.twitter.com/Oa6GdA5HCk

— AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 (@AZgeopolitics) March 8, 2023

movielover said:

---

Comments below clip.

Because of such heavy losses people are being taken like this to fight for "freedom and democracy"

This video appeared from Odessa today... pic.twitter.com/Oa6GdA5HCk

— AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎 (@AZgeopolitics) March 8, 2023

---

Longer version of this clip, with English subtitles. It's a young father being forcibly yanked from the streets of Odessa for military conscription to Zelensky's Donbass meat grinder. He's being roughed up and taken while his wife protests:

In Odessa the horrors of mobilization continue … Bakhmut needs more soldiers for 4 hours .,. pic.twitter.com/0p5HFVAO31

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) March 8, 2023

"We have a child at home" he lamented..sad..he might never see his child again an orphan in the making and a widow too....strange country to be in..to the last ukranian

— gastrog (@gastrogubi) March 9, 2023

There are dozens of such videos about forced conscription across Ukraine being posted every week.

Most of the Ukrainian men who wanted to fight Russia already are dead, injured or still enrolled in their shrinking army. This war is now being conducted with Ukrainian men who have been forcibly drafted.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

---

Not only that, but the Russian narrative, in addition to being internally inconsistent also has included laughably false claims.

For example, last week ML posted a tweet from his favorite Russian troll, This is obviously fabrication and CNN hasn't reported any such thing.

CNN, citing sources in Ukrainian General Staff reports that on February 28, 2023, the losses of AFU amounted to:

▪️ 259,085 people killed, died from wounds, diseases;
▪️wounded, crippled 246,904;
▪️deserted, as well as missing - 83,952;
▪️ captured - 28 393.

/Intel Slava Z/

— Trollstoy (@Trollstoy88) March 3, 2023

Yet, ML will continue to follow Trollstoy88 and post his obvious Kremlin propaganda when it supports ML's narrative, which as far as I can tell is primarily motivated from his partisan hatred of Biden and democrats. If Trump had been successful in corrupting Zelensky to announce an investigation into the Bidens, he would probably support Ukraine as would ML.

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

"By some accounts" = NATO / Ukraine / US. Gotcha.

No explanation of why old men and 16-year-old boys are being dragged off to war.

---

I understand why people might be skeptical of the US narrative on a conflict. I remember Iraq.

I do not understand why people would be any more trusting of the Russian narrative. Why would they be more credible? If anything, Russian claims have been proven to be less credible.

---

Agreed. Lots of spin. And nobody is perfect.

But we do know that NATO and European Command had to admit that they're critically low on ammunition. And they've had 8, 9 deployments. We also know Bakhmut became key, and it takes 3x the force to overcome a defensive position.

(Prior to that, the Ukrainian General was essentially pleading for a whole new army in The Economist.)

The next phase / question may be - where are the next defensible positions for Ukraine? Are there great natural positions to hunker down, or will the next battles be easier for Russia?

NATO leaders are talking about 3 more years of war, which means a $500 Billion war commitment from America. Germany is starting to lose heavy industry, and the public's support in America and Germany is falling. Europe was saved by a mild winter.

I don't think the public will stick with this proxy war for 3 more years. (Let the name calling commence.)

---

Where are you coming up with $500B commitment from America? I don't think that's representative at all of what has been spent in the past year. The reality is that we waste hundreds of billions per year on our military and the ROI on the Ukraine spend is probably the highest of any military spend we've had in decades. A lot of the "aid" has come in the form of providing outdated equipment that we purchased and never used and was mothballed or going to be mothballed. I would prefer Putin ends this war and that this military machinery not be put to use but it's hardly fair to consider it entirely additional spend, since a lot of it really isn't.

---

Trollstoy88 is actually an epic Russian propagandist name

Cal88 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Is the conquest of Crimea still an item for Ukraine, or have they somehow become more realistic?

Ukraine's highest priority in airplanes would be Su-25s ground attack jets, because they are already trained in the flight and maintenance of these planes. I am not sure how many of these planes are still available through its former Soviet state neighbors/allies, they might have already gone through those inventories. I think Poland has a few Mig29s left, another plane which is very well-suited for Ukrainian use, not just because they are already trained on its use and maintenance, but also because Mig-29s can operate from makeshift relatively short dirt strips, unlike say, F-16s.

The issue though for Ukraine with any planes whether it's Su25s, A10s or F16s is that these planes are going to be shut down within the first few missions by the Russians. Ukraine doesn't have the resources to conduct large scale A2AD suppression, Russia has both the quality and quantity of AA systems to easily sustain such attempts. They also have superior beyond visual range fighter/missile packages capable of shooting down Ukrainian jets from distances over 200km.

---

Not totally true, we supplied them with Harm missiles, meaning AA systems that turn on their radar within range will be knocked out. Still requires UAF to fly low and risk being hit by manpads to get in range of those AA systems.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics/anti-radar-missiles-ukraine-russia-pentagon/index.html

---

I mentioned "large-scale" because Ukraine's fleet of Mig-29s equipped with HARMs is very small, and they have to fly in at very low altitude, then briefly climb to launch before getting right back to the treetops, which constraints the range of the AGM88 missiles to something closer to 50km, vs 100km when launched from high altitude. So S-400 and other radar systems positioned further back can track these planes from 200km-300km back without being vulnerable.

As well the Russians have shot down several AGM88s, and also successfully jammed some.

In an all-out war with NATO, it would probably be a wash, NATO would destroy a relatively high percentage but not all Russian AA systems, but would also take heavy losses of fighter jets and pilots in the process.

This has been a constant outcome in battles between fighters and AA systems between US vs Soviet proxies (Vietnam, Israel '73).

---

You're using examples from wars 50 years ago to judge the relative merits of current US and Russian fighters and AA systems?

<ducks to avoid the incoming barrage of links, videos and propaganda>

Eastern Oreg said:

---

You're using examples from wars 50 years ago to judge the relative merits of current US and Russian fighters and AA systems?

<ducks to avoid the incoming barrage of links, videos and propaganda>

---

Nearly all jets flown today are 4th generation 50 year old designs (F16, F15, F18, Russian Flankers etc). Stealth is a new twist but the F35s have their own limitations.

I haven't posted Colonel Douglass McGregor in a while, but he had some new insights today:

- all of the Russian missiles got through yesterday, with a focus on energy; map shows hits all over the country
- China / Xi wants to talk peace in Moscow?
- Zelensky has said he'll listen? (Unconfirmed, & was driving)
- (insert description) Victoria Nuland surfaces; claims Russia using Crimea as a major military base / drones
- MUD: why Russia isn't advancing much; Russian military once had to wait until mid June to commence an operation
- Zelensky wants to get cluster bombs from us?
- Germany near defenseless (no ammo); ourcammo severely depleted
- German Chancellor gives Biden cover on NS 1 & 2 sabotage
- there is a value to the US in keeping the war going? (preventing China's new Silk Road?)

movielover said:

---

I haven't posted Colonel Douglass McGregor in a while, but he had some new insights today:

- all of the Russian missiles got through yesterday, with a focus on energy; map shows hits all over the country
- China / Xi wants to talk peace in Moscow?
- Zelensky has said he'll listen? (Unconfirmed, & was driving)
- (insert description) Victoria Nuland surfaces; claims Russia using Crimea as a major military base / drones
- MUD: why Russia isn't advancing much; Russian military once had to wait until mid June to commence an operation
- Zelensky wants to get cluster bombs from us?
- Germany near defenseless (no ammo); ourcammo severely depleted
- German Chancellor gives Biden cover on NS 1 & 2 sabotage
- there is a value to the US in keeping the war going? (preventing China's new Silk Road?)

---

You posted about McGregor yesterday. He's in two of your posts.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

movielover said:

---

I haven't posted Colonel Douglass McGregor in a while, but he had some new insights today:

- all of the Russian missiles got through yesterday, with a focus on energy; map shows hits all over the country
- China / Xi wants to talk peace in Moscow?
- Zelensky has said he'll listen? (Unconfirmed, & was driving)
- (insert description) Victoria Nuland surfaces; claims Russia using Crimea as a major military base / drones
- MUD: why Russia isn't advancing much; Russian military once had to wait until mid June to commence an operation
- Zelensky wants to get cluster bombs from us?
- Germany near defenseless (no ammo); ourcammo severely depleted
- German Chancellor gives Biden cover on NS 1 & 2 sabotage
- there is a value to the US in keeping the war going? (preventing China's new Silk Road?)

---

You posted about McGregor yesterday. He's in two of your posts.

---

Yeah, "a while"... like a day or so. For example, if you hadn't eaten for five hours, it would be fine to say you hadn't eaten in a while.

"A while". It's relative. On election day, 2020, my good friend BearForce2 posted at 9:43 PM that Trump had Pennsylvania sewn up. Then, at 9:46, he posted that he hadn't mentioned this in a while, but Trump had Pennsylvania sewn up. (You can check the archives: It's true maybe!)

Big C said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

movielover said:

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I haven't posted Colonel Douglass McGregor in a while, but he had some new insights today:

- all of the Russian missiles got through yesterday, with a focus on energy; map shows hits all over the country
- China / Xi wants to talk peace in Moscow?
- Zelensky has said he'll listen? (Unconfirmed, & was driving)
- (insert description) Victoria Nuland surfaces; claims Russia using Crimea as a major military base / drones
- MUD: why Russia isn't advancing much; Russian military once had to wait until mid June to commence an operation
- Zelensky wants to get cluster bombs from us?
- Germany near defenseless (no ammo); ourcammo severely depleted
- German Chancellor gives Biden cover on NS 1 & 2 sabotage
- there is a value to the US in keeping the war going? (preventing China's new Silk Road?)

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You posted about McGregor yesterday. He's in two of your posts.

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Yeah, "a while"... like a day or so. For example, if you hadn't eaten for five hours, it would be fine to say you hadn't eaten in a while.

"A while". It's relative. On election day, 2020, my good friend BearForce2 posted at 9:43 PM that Trump had Pennsylvania sewn up. Then, at 9:46, he posted that he hadn't mentioned this in a while, but Trump had Pennsylvania sewn up. (You can check the archives: It's true maybe!)

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BearForce was correct. When have we ever had large-scale 'computer problems' in a State?
- it's mathematically impossible for 6 or 7 states to all have major computer problems
- it's mathematically impossible for them to all go down at roughly the same time
- it's mathematically impossible that all the states / counties affected were swing states / counties
- Example: why didn't Wyoming have a major glitch at 9PM, and get back online at 9:10 PM?
- it's mathematically impossible that every county and state swung massively - when the computers were turned back on

I haven't posted a new Colonel McGregor *video*. But this is hair splitting.

Unit2Sucks said:

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movielover said:

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That's the point - compared to Ukraine, some 'pro-Russian' individuals claim their casualties aren't high.

This is an old-fashioned war fought from great distances much of the time. By Russia using long-range artillery, aided by Iranian drones, they can avoid a lot of close combat.

Interwebs: "Russia also has access to a large number of other artillery systems: 9A52-4 "Tornado" MLRS: up to 90km range. BM-30 "Smerch" MLRS: 70 to 90km range. 2S7 "Pion" 203mm heavy artillery: 37,5 to 55km range."

That's the distance from San Francisco to San Jose.

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You've been caught posting obviously false Russian propaganda around casualties - as recently as a few days ago when you posted a tweet referencing CNN which was completely fabricated. So you are one of the 'pro-Russian individuals' making claims about casualties.

As for your claim that the war is fought from great distances "much of the time", it's also true that Russia has employed the "throwing waves of meat" approach which has resulted in mass Russian casualties in various theaters. Vuhledar is one prominent recent example but it's happened in Bakhmut for more than half this war. By some accounts, Russia is suffering extreme casualty imbalances in Bakhmut which may be contributing to Ukraine's considerations in maintaining Bakhmut despite it potentially not being the most strategic position to hold. If you want to know what a low casualty rate might look like, consider every US war since Vietnam. People in the US freaked out when a terrorist killed 13 service members in Afghanistan at the time we pulled out - it was a tragedy - but Putin and the Kremlin don't value their troops and willingly sacrifice them in order to inflict damage, even when they are on the wrong end of the imbalance.

A NATO assessment shows that Russia lost 5 times as many forces in Bakhmut than Ukraine

This still means heavy casualties on the Ukrainian side but provides a window into why Ukraine is staying put for now in Bakhmut

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) March 7, 2023

Russia has taken 20,000 to 30,000 casualties in trying to take Bakhmut, killed to wounded ratio could be worse than one to three - Western officials, speaking on condition of anonymity

— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) March 7, 2023

For Russia generally? Three to one. Much lower for Ukraine, maybe even 10 to 1

— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) March 7, 2023

...

Now, of course, we all know that you and others are likely to respond with the Russian propaganda that Putin wants everyone to believe. If that propaganda were true, Russia would have won this war last spring, like all of the propagandists predicted. You should be very skeptical of that Russian propaganda rather than posting it here as if it were remotely accurate.

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Russian propaganda is weak, it is not their forte. They've been winning the military battle, the economic battle, but in the West, they're still getting clobbered in the PR war.

I don't base my analyses on "Russian propaganda", the best assessments are those candid ones from Ukrainian parties, be it in the forced recruitement of men 16 to 60+ on city streets, or in the statements of soldiers from the front, like the Australian officer I've posted above who stated that Wagner was top-notch across the board and was winning the Bakhmut campaign.

Here's another posted video from a Ukrainian recent conscript that stated that "they were being hunted like bunnies" by the Russians. This goes completely opposite the war tropes you've posted above. It is not the hunters that are losing lives in "human waves", it is the bunnies that are getting slaughtered, at the rate of nearly 1,000 per day.

Video from a couple of weeks ago in Bakhmut.

"The Russians hunt us like bunnies", says one of the Ukrainian soldiers stationed there.

There are also complaints about ridiculously untrained soldiers being sent to Bakhmut.

After admitting this, he then fears he "spoke too much". pic.twitter.com/itlxXbU1qg

— Tom (@tom_username_) March 8, 2023

It is the Ukrainian conscripts who are undertrained, underequipped and outgunned, yet you claim that "Russia is suffering extreme casualty imbalances in Bakhmut"...

#Ukranian fighters saying we fought as hard as we could but we have strength no longer.This is #Bakhmut
They feel abandoned. Not enough weapons.
They are forced to fight against artillery with small arms pic.twitter.com/oseazHXIZD

— Arthur Morgan (@ArthurM40330824) March 9, 2023

Another Ukrainian soldier in Bakhmut stating that they are losing 1-2 battallions a day in his sector:

"WHOLE BATTALION A WEEK":
No this isn’t a Russian soldier in Ukrainian uniform, it’s a Ukrainian sharing how Artyomovsk-Bakhmut, Donetsk Republic (ex-Ukraine) has been razed to ground and Kiev is LOSING an entire battalion in 1 week (up to 1,200 soldiers). pic.twitter.com/19EE3LcQ7M

— John Carter (@JohnEdgarCarter) March 3, 2023

Bakhmut is very important on two counts. First, it is the largest, most difficult obstacle for the Russians in their conquest of the Donbass and beyond, all the way to the Dniepr. It is the anchor of their most heavily fortified line. The next line, Slovyansk-Kramatorsk, is more vulnerable, and is also the last one in their network of fortification lines which they have worked 8 years to develop. Between that and the Dniepr, it's flat, open terrain.

Bakhmut is also the largest battle on the 21st century, if only in the sheer numbers engaged and losses to date - around 40,000 Ukrainian KIAs. As such it has become highly symbolic, this is what the last soldier above alluded to, its symbolic nature has driven Zelensky and their leaders to try to hold on to it at all costs. Bakmut has become Zelensky's Stalingrad.

Zelensky to the United States Congress December 21 2022: "The fight for Bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence and freedom." pic.twitter.com/8BXvWyXvGo

— ₦₳V𝚜𝚝é𝚟𝚊 🇷🇺 ᴢ (@Navsteva) March 4, 2023

Yes, about 200km from Bakhmut to Dnipropetrosk, largest city on the Dniepr south of Kiev.

You have the BI Patriotic peanut gallery saying Bakhmut is not important (now that Ukraine is losing it) and Zelensky saying, "The fight for Bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence and freedom."

This is confusing. Who do I believe?