The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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AunBear89
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In reply to oski003 • 7:26a, 6/14/24
I don't know - why don't you look it up yourself? When was the last time the US sent a nuke sub to the Baltic to conduct exercises with the navies of Finland, Sweden, and Denmark?

Oh, that's right, you don't ask questions out of honest curiosity. You ask questions as a passive/aggressive way of making a point. It is an amateurish rhetorical tactic.

Besides, there are likely two answers to your rhetorical question: the publicly known answer, and the real answer. What makes you think that we are made aware of the comings and goings of Russian ships? Or ours, for that matter? Particularly subs, because here's the thing about submarines: they go under water (hence the name) and are intended to be as undetectable as possible.

But let's continue to pretend that what is happening in Cuba is unique and game changing and an existential threat to our democracy. Gotta keep the MAGAbillies and GOP morons foaming at the mouth and in fear.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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oski003
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In reply to AunBear89 • 7:28a, 6/14/24
AunBear89 said:
I don't know - why don't you look it up yourself? When was the last time the US sent a nuke sub to the Baltic to conduct exercises with the navies of Finland, Sweden, and Denmark?

Oh, that's right, you don't ask questions out of honest curiosity. You ask questions as a passive/aggressive way of making a point. It is an amateurish rhetorical tactic.

Besides, there are likely two answers to your rhetorical question: the publicly known answer, and the real answer. What makes you think that we are made aware of the comings and goings of Russian ships? Or ours, for that matter? Particularly subs, because here's the thing about submarines: they go under water (hence the name) and are intended to be as undetectable as possible.

But let's continue to pretend that what is happening in Cuba is unique and game changing and an existential threat to our democracy. Gotta keep the MAGAbillies and GOP morons foaming at the mouth and in fear.


Yes, I understand what a sub is.
Would you care to actually answer the legitimate question?

When was the last time that Russia sent a nuclear sub to Cuba for military exercises?
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movielover
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7:50a, 6/14/24
New York Post: US Navy fast attack sub arrives in Cuba a day after Russia sends warships to Havana

"Of most interest to the US is the presence of the the Kazan, a Yasen-class cruise missile submarine, which is equipped with Zircon hypersonic missiles reportedly capable of traveling nine times the speed of sound."

CNN: Russian ships arrive in Cuba as Cold War allies strengthen their ties

"It marks the largest show of force by the Russians with their longstanding ally Cuba in many years."

I hope our Navy has fixed their steering and navigation / safety protocols.
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AunBear89
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In reply to oski003 • 9:36a, 6/14/24
Look it up yourself. I don't really care. And you missed the point again because you are being willfully ignorant, we probably don't know the real answer to that.


But continue running around with movielover, yelling "the sky is falling".
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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movielover
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In reply to AunBear89 • 10:55a, 6/14/24
Nobody said the sky was falling, though Scott Ritter says we're the closest to a nuclear confrontation since the CMC.

We appear to have no diplomats, no statesmen.

Russian jamming technologies humbling the American MICC.

Business Insider: US-supplied HIMARS 'completely ineffective' against superior Russian jamming technology, report says

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-himars-completely-ineffective-against-russian-jamming-report-2024-5
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Cal88
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12:30p, 6/14/24
Putin offers peace plan, which is based on the Istanbul peace treaty.

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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:55p, 6/14/24
Movie that made an impression on me as a boy:


If memory serves, Horst drove a red Jag XKE in that film.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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Zippergate
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2:25p, 6/14/24
To the last Ukrainian...Nuland and co must be so pleased.

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AunBear89
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In reply to bearister • 2:29p, 6/14/24
bearister said:
Movie that made an impression on me as a boy:


If memory serves, Horst drove a red Jag XKE in that film.


"Left my Jag in Kansas City. . ."
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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Cal88
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In reply to bearister • 3:06p, 6/14/24
bearister said:
Movie that made an impression on me as a boy:


If memory serves, Horst drove a red Jag XKE in that film.


This was my early E-type cinematic memory, with the most famous French comedian of all time, Louis de Funes:
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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:24p, 6/14/24

Jaguar Two-Eared Knock-Off
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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movielover
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10:29a, 6/15/24
Apparently Putin gave a recent 3-hour interview to another western journalist.

Colonel McGregor believes the Ukrainian army is ready to collapse, may have only 30,000 troops in reserve. Part of this analysis is based upon the changing status per UKR joining the NATO. A year or more back it was stated it would be years before UKR was ready to join NATO; now apparently there are new rumblings to rush its enlistment. Ergo, expand the war.

Russia also dropping mines via planes and artillery behind the advancing Ukranian troops.
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Big C
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In reply to movielover • 5:51p, 6/15/24
movielover said:
Apparently Putin gave a recent 3-hour interview to another western journalist.

Colonel McGregor believes the Ukrainian army is ready to collapse, may have only 30,000 troops in reserve. Part of this analysis is based upon the changing status per UKR joining the NATO. A year or more back it was stated it would be years before UKR was ready to join NATO; now apparently there are new rumblings to rush its enlistment. Ergo, expand the war.

Russia also dropping mines via planes and artillery behind the advancing Ukranian troops.

Fact check:

1. When you quote the retired Colonel, you may wish, out of respect, to spell his name correctly.
a. "Mac" (not "Mc")
b. "g" (not "G")
c. "Douglas" (only one "s",,, for when you use his first name)

2. We agree that there never should have been talk about Ukraine joining NATO (going back 30 years or so), but note that there is zero chance of this happening while the war is going on. Zero. I think that is even codified in the NATO charter: a prospective member cannot be admitted while in a war. (somebody can fact check me on that... it's my recollection). In war or in peace, Ukraine into NATO would be a terrible idea. We can provide carefully planned and limited assistance to Ukraine to help them defend themselves (as long as they actually want it), but that country is not in our sphere of vital interests. Containing this unfortunate conflict is of utmost importance (I grew up in the Cold War.).

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sycasey
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6:12p, 6/15/24
At this point, I could not possibly be less interested in what Colonel MacGregor has to say. He's no longer in the military and has no special knowledge about anything.

He's also been predicting for two years that the war in Ukraine was "about to end" and Ukraine was going to have to surrender. Maybe one day he'll be right!
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Big C
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In reply to sycasey • 6:48p, 6/15/24
^ Lower-case "g", yo.

Maybe you don't care what he has to say, but aren't you at least obsessed with the correct spelling of his name?
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sycasey
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In reply to Big C • 7:28p, 6/15/24
Big C said:
^ Lower-case "g", yo.

Maybe you don't care what he has to say, but aren't you at least obsessed with the correct spelling of his name?
At this point, I care even less about which letters are supposed to be capitalized.
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bear2034
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9:46p, 6/15/24
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Big C
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In reply to sycasey • 11:22p, 6/15/24
sycasey said:
Big C said:
^ Lower-case "g", yo.

Maybe you don't care what he has to say, but aren't you at least obsessed with the correct spelling of his name?
At this point, I care even less about which letters are supposed to be capitalized.

I'm sure that was subconscious on your part, but did you know that Donald Trump posted that exact same sentence on Twitter* exactly ten years ago today? It's true; you could look it up.




* currently known as "X"
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 10:14a, 6/16/24
sycasey said:
At this point, I could not possibly be less interested in what Colonel MacGregor has to say. He's no longer in the military and has no special knowledge about anything.

He's also been predicting for two years that the war in Ukraine was "about to end" and Ukraine was going to have to surrender. Maybe one day he'll be right!


As a lifelong military leader, battle commander, scholar, and leading tank expert, Macgregor [noted] has contacts in DOD, and all over the world. Including Israel. He'll give us basic numbers on KIA, amputees, forces in reserve (300K for Russia), etc., that the narrative engineers of the MSM uniformly omit... until handed clearly propoganda numbers. He'll also share military strategy, implications, pros and cons.

In addition, he has a reputation for not following the crowd, for creative thinking.

In his weekly interviews and podcasts, he'll admit, "I was wrong about X; Putin used a different strategy." That's refreshing to hear.

He predicted Europe would have political blowback over illegal immigration, energy prices, and the war, and he was correct.

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movielover
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In reply to 141 Days Til No Joe • 7:09p, 6/16/24
So the Russian Bear was asleep, now awakens, along with the significant industrial base and engineers. Then this war drives them closer to Iran, North Korea and China. Wonderful. s/ Now they have a well-oiled million-man army adept at integrated air defense and drone use.

Putin also just made another peace offer with tough requests - including Russia keeping four UKR regions - which, of coarse, the West immediately rejected.
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movielover
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10:57p, 6/16/24
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movielover
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12:22p, 6/17/24
Germany protests and revolts against 1.3 Million+ Ukrainian deserters getting welfare payments from Germany.

Two parties boycott Zelensky.

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Big C
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In reply to movielover • 2:34p, 6/17/24
movielover said:
So the Russian Bear was asleep, now awakens, along with the significant industrial base and engineers. Then this war drives them closer to Iran, North Korea and China. Wonderful. s/ Now they have a well-oiled million-man army adept at integrated air defense and drone use.

Putin also just made another peace offer with tough requests - including Russia keeping four UKR regions - which, of coarse, the West immediately rejected.

Here's what I'd like to see at this point...

1. Ukraine (not "the West") make a counter-proposal, which Russia would surely reject, as well.

2. Split the two proposals down the middle and call it a day. ( if that is what the Ukrainian people would go for )
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movielover
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In reply to Big C • 2:54p, 6/17/24
That's a reasonable start. I believe Zelensky 's position is Russian 100% withdrawal, while Putin requested 4 oblasts (?) - actually a little more territory than he controls now. So let's say 0% vs 20% - so 10% would be the compromise. That 10% would have to include Crimea.

The next big item is Ukraine neutrality - i.e., not joining NATO, and no NATO (CIA) forces in Ukraine.

Sadly, the longer Ukraine waits, the more land and lives Russia will take.

The recent elections and German citizens protests are telling. The German citizens first had to pay for waves of legal and illegal immigration, then "Green energy", then Biden blowing up the NS2 pipelines, and now millions of Ukranian deserters. Scholtz was trounced.
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Big C
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In reply to movielover • 3:19p, 6/17/24
movielover said:
That's a reasonable start. I believe Zelensky 's position is Russian 100% withdrawal, while Putin requested 4 oblasts (?) - actually a little more territory than he controls now. So let's say 0% vs 20% - so 10% would be the compromise. That 10% would have to include Crimea.

The next big item is Ukraine neutrality - i.e., not joining NATO, and no NATO (CIA) forces in Ukraine.

Sadly, the longer Ukraine waits, the more land and lives Russia will take.

The recent elections and German citizens protests are telling. The German citizens first had to pay for waves of legal and illegal immigration, then "Green energy", then Biden blowing up the NS2 pipelines, and now millions of Ukranian deserters. Scholtz was trounced.

I'd be fine with throwing the Rooskies a bone, i.e. a little territory... some of the ethnic-Russian areas maybe. Not too much; nothing too strategic.

I have no problem with an agreement that Ukraine is never in NATO.

It would all have to be dependent on what the Ukranian people really want to do. Not my country; not our vital interests; not our negotiation.
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bear2034
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In reply to Big C • 4:53p, 6/17/24
Big C said:

It would all have to be dependent on what the Ukranian people really want to do. Not my country; not our vital interests; not our negotiation.

Isn't it the main problem that this isn't about what the Ukranian people want but rather, what Congress, Biden, the neocons, the CIA, the State Dept, Zelensky and his oligarchs want? Do the Ukrainians have a say in this?
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Big C
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In reply to bear2034 • 5:02p, 6/17/24
bear2034 said:
Big C said:

It would all have to be dependent on what the Ukranian people really want to do. Not my country; not our vital interests; not our negotiation.

Isn't it the main problem that this isn't about what the Ukranian people want but rather, what Congress, Biden, the neocons, Zelensky and his oligarchs want? Do the Ukrainians have a say in this?

I'm not going to claim that I know what the "Ukrainian people" really want, so I'm going to place some trust in the government that they elected to represent them. Not perfect, but it's all we have to go on right now.

To the extent that the US might be egging Ukraine on to fight this war, I am against that.
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bear2034
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In reply to Big C • 5:04p, 6/17/24
Big C said:

To the extent that the US might be egging Ukraine on to fight this war, I am against that.
Me too.

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AunBear89
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6:50p, 6/17/24
Wow. What has happened to conservatives in the last couple of days on BI that has made them even more stupid and hateful than normal?

Maybe they know the great pumpkin is fug$ed?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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bear2034
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In reply to AunBear89 • 6:58p, 6/17/24
Be honest, do you think Biden is being held against his will?
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movielover
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In reply to bear2034 • 6:58p, 6/17/24
bear2034 said:
Big C said:

It would all have to be dependent on what the Ukranian people really want to do. Not my country; not our vital interests; not our negotiation.

Isn't it the main problem that this isn't about what the Ukranian people want but rather, what Congress, Biden, the neocons, the CIA, the State Dept, Zelensky and his oligarchs want? Do the Ukrainians have a say in this?


Facts we know:

1. The Ukrainian people voted for a cross dressing comedian who promised peace.

2. In February 2022, the war was going badly for UKR / NATO, and Western leaders were telling Zelensky to flee the country.

3. Months into the SMO, Zelensky and Putin had agreed to a 15-point peace deal. Final negotiations were to be held in Turkey.

4. DC and neocons were enraged when they read the agreement. They argued Ukraine was now making progress against Russia's army, told Zelensky they would back him fully with military might and $$$, and sent Boris Johnson - who arrived unexpectedly In Kyiv on April 9th, 2022 - to nix the deal.

5. The European Conservative: "Russia was "ready to end the war if we took neutrality," Ukraine's former top negotiator confirmed, but Boris Johnson said, "let's just fight." "

6. "Russia repeatedly signaled a willingness to hammer out a peace deal, while Ukraine obviously remained interested because otherwise, it would've left the negotiation table."

7. April 26, 2022: "Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told reporters after a trip to Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv that 'we want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.' "

8. At some point, an AZOV faction in Ukraine allegedly assassinated their own peace negotiator.

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-johnson-forced-kyiv-to-refuse-russian-peace-deal/

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper
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AunBear89
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7:18p, 6/17/24
Still an idiot. A useful idiot to someone, perhaps. But on BI, just a know-nothing idiot.


Every village has an idiot, and Bear Insider's idiot says he like movies.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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movielover
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In reply to AunBear89 • 8:45p, 6/17/24
Apparently your maturation stalled when you started hitting the pipe.
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movielover
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9:35p, 6/17/24
Russia reportedly hit 110 sites in 24 hours, with an estimate of 1,000 KIA.

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oski003
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In reply to AunBear89 • 9:39p, 6/17/24
AunBear89 said:
Wow. What has happened to conservatives in the last couple of days on BI that has made them even more stupid and hateful than normal?

Maybe they know the great pumpkin is fug$ed?


Are you triggered more than normal right now? Is this why you messaged me to go outside and play in traffic? You are terrible.
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