The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

1,710,065 Views | 12719 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Cal88
movielover
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bear2034
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It's a religion and therefore, he must be worshiped.
MinotStateBeav
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David Starkey had a pretty nice interview here (57 mins long)

bearister
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“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Haloski
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bear2034 said:


It's a religion and therefore, he must be worshiped.


MAGA!
movielover
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movielover
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movielover
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But what about UK's 100-year deal, and Blackrock?
Cal88
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The fine print at the bottom of page 257 of Zel's US contract will stipulate "applicable from Jan. 1, 2126 to Dec. 31, 2225".
movielover
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Dummy. All over the place.

bearister
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Trump said on Truth Social last night:

"We should spend less time worrying about Putin,and more time worrying about migrant rape gangs, drug lords, murderers, and people from mental institutions entering our Country - So that we don't end up like Europe!"
-Axios

*When is Trump going to say "We should spend less time worry about the Epstein files that have been redacted and withheld and more time worrying about [insert his bullsh@it here]."
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bear2034
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Trump back in 2018.

The Germans weren't laughing four years later when Biden and company blew up Nord Stream 2.
bear2034
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There are cracks in the American propaganda machine.
bear2034
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Zippergate
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I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.

MinotStateBeav
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bear2034
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Europeans are going to end up spending more.
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.



There is no contingent in US politics arguing for our troops to fight in Ukraine. The debate is over whether or not we send them weapons or other assistance. This narrative is such a stupid straw man.
Big C
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.



There is no contingent in US politics arguing for our troops to fight in Ukraine. The debate is over whether or not we send them weapons or other assistance. This narrative is such a stupid straw man.

And I will add, that is why the Biden Administration limited the type and quality of weapons we were sending Ukraine. Trying to help them as much as possible while still keeping the war contained and non-nuclear (as that, obviously, would be the worst conceivable outcome). Not gonna lie, it was a delicate balance to strike.
movielover
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Is he on an NGO?
Anarchistbear
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Big C said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.



There is no contingent in US politics arguing for our troops to fight in Ukraine. The debate is over whether or not we send them weapons or other assistance. This narrative is such a stupid straw man.

And I will add, that is why the Biden Administration limited the type and quality of weapons we were sending Ukraine. Trying to help them as much as possible while still keeping the war contained and non-nuclear (as that, obviously, would be the worst conceivable outcome). Not gonna lie, it was a delicate balance to strike.



The argument is no longer weapons because as we see weapons don't guarantee Ukraine survives. The issue is security guarantees - most likely the US provides none. The Europeans have to provide same- not only weapons but likely a multi- national force as a buffer. Will they?
bearister
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Anarchistbear said:


The Europeans have to provide same- not only weapons but likely a multi- national force as a buffer.


Senator Pat Geary: Mr. Cici, was there always a buffer involved?

Willi Cici: A what?

Senator Pat Geary: A buffer. Someone in between you and your possible superiors who passed on to you the actual order to kill someone.

Willi Cici:




Joe "The Animal" Barboza, Mafia hit man (11 confirmed murders). First enrollee in Federal Witness Protection Program. Found shot to death and dumped in the street in the Sunset District, S.F. 2/11/76.

* Barboza's attorney F. Lee Bailey said about his death "With all due respect to my former client, I don't think society has suffered a great loss".

*This may be deemed an unlawful thread hijack.
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Zippergate
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So the Russians are supposed to pretend that the US is not at war with Russia? I don't think the Russians are as stupid as the people who think we can do all these things and not see a dangerous escalation.

Zippergate
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Congrats, Joe, you got exactly what you wished for. Joe is what the TDS crowd thinks Trump is.



bearister
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Putin Laments Soviet Breakup As Demise Of 'Historical Russia,' Amid Ukraine Fears


https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-historical-russia-soviet-breakup-ukraine/31606186.html

"Russian President Vladimir Putin has described the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 as the demise of "historical Russia," a comment that could fuel speculation about his foreign policy intentions amid a buildup of tens of thousands of Russian troops in regions bordering Ukraine.

"It was the disintegration of historical Russia under the name of the Soviet Union," Putin said of the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union while speaking in a documentary film called Russia. Recent History….

Putin, a former agent of the Soviet KGB security service, has previously lamented the collapse of the Soviet Union, calling it the "the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century."

Article by Vladimir Putin "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians" President of Russia


http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

Putin's history lecture reveals his dreams of a new Russian Empire - Atlantic Council


https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-history-lecture-reveals-his-dreams-of-a-new-russian-empire/

"How far could Putin go? Throughout his reign, he has consistently lamented the fall of the USSR, which he has referred to as the demise of "historical Russia." After the events of the past two years, it should be painfully apparent that anywhere Putin regards as "historical Russia" is potentially at risk.

In theory, at least, the same bogus historical arguments that have been used to justify the invasion of Ukraine could easily be applied to other parts of the former Soviet Union, or to the Russian Empire of the Czarist era. This would create an array of possible targets for Russian aggression including Finland, Poland, the Baltic states, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Alaska, and the whole of Central Asia. A maximalist interpretation could even see all of Central Europe's former Soviet satellite states besides Poland added to the list."

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tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.



There is no contingent in US politics arguing for our troops to fight in Ukraine. The debate is over whether or not we send them weapons or other assistance. This narrative is such a stupid straw man.
The defacto Ukraine/NATO/European position IS American troops on the ground in Ukraine. France and the UK have committed to 30k(?) troops as peacekeepers..only if they get US support. Gee, I wonder what "US support" means.

France and UK held emergency meetings to get more Euro countries to commit troops. Total commitment received: 0

Our Euro allies talk a big game. But exactly like living up to their NATO obligations, they've got alligator arms when it's time to pay the bill. They have some kind of nerve.
Big C
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

I wish Z could kidnap these keyboard warriors and hand them a rifle at the front. I wonder if they'd still advocate for escalating the war.



There is no contingent in US politics arguing for our troops to fight in Ukraine. The debate is over whether or not we send them weapons or other assistance. This narrative is such a stupid straw man.
The defacto Ukraine/NATO/European position IS American troops on the ground in Ukraine. France and the UK have committed to 30k(?) troops as peacekeepers..only if they get US support. Gee, I wonder what "US support" means.

France and UK held emergency meetings to get more Euro countries to commit troops. Total commitment received: 0

Our Euro allies talk a big game. But exactly like living up to their NATO obligations, they've got alligator arms when it's time to pay the bill. They have some kind of nerve.

There was never going to be US troops on the ground in Ukraine. Some of the European NATO folks are nuts. I would strongly advise them to keep any Euro/NATO troops out of Ukraine. Ukraine is not part of NATO and should never be.

If Putin/Russia take over most or even all of Ukraine, that would be unfortunate but so be it. The line in the sand is Poland (a NATO country). I'm pretty sure Putin doesn't want Poland. I am less sure of what Putin thinks about the Baltic states. Mostly, he wants Ukraine because of its historic ties to Russia. When Putin was coming up, Ukraine was known as "the breadbasket of the Soviet Union".
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

So the Russians are supposed to pretend that the US is not at war with Russia? I don't think the Russians are as stupid as the people who think we can do all these things and not see a dangerous escalation.


There is a pretty easy way for Russia to not be at war with anyone right now.
Zippergate
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

So the Russians are supposed to pretend that the US is not at war with Russia? I don't think the Russians are as stupid as the people who think we can do all these things and not see a dangerous escalation.

There is a pretty easy way for Russia to not be at war with anyone right now.
And yet here we are. Diplomacy is about dealing what is rather than what should be.

But since we're talking about what should be, should the NATO (US) have declared its intention to add Ukraine to NATO given its historical significance and proximity to Russia? Should the US have orchestrated the overthrow of the Ukraine government? Should the US have looked the other way and aggressively armed the Ukraine government while it was killing Russian civilians in the eastern oblasts? Should the US have built bioweapons labs in Ukraine? Should the US have destroyed a Russian gas pipeline into Germany? Should the US provide and guide missiles that hit targets inside Russia? Many such questions could be asked.
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

So the Russians are supposed to pretend that the US is not at war with Russia? I don't think the Russians are as stupid as the people who think we can do all these things and not see a dangerous escalation.

There is a pretty easy way for Russia to not be at war with anyone right now.
And yet here we are. Diplomacy is about dealing what is rather than what should be.

But since we're talking about what should be, should the NATO (US) have declared its intention to add Ukraine to NATO given its historical significance and proximity to Russia? Should the US have orchestrated the overthrow of the Ukraine government? Should the US have looked the other way and aggressively armed the Ukraine government while it was killing Russian civilians in the eastern oblasts? Should the US have built bioweapons labs in Ukraine? Should the US have destroyed a Russian gas pipeline into Germany? Should the US provide and guide missiles that hit targets inside Russia? Many such questions could be asked.
I have highlighted at least three things that aren't true.
movielover
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Not an expert in any, but all are widely considered to be true.

Take NS2 pipelines. Biden publicly stated we would take them out. Technically, few countries could even attempt the feat. Legendary writer Seymour Hersh covered how our US Navy Diving and Salvage operaton carried out the operation. Months after the sabatogue, laughable theories were floated on how the destruction occurred while Northern European countries seemed rather incurious.

February 2022, AP: ""If Russia invades, that means tanks and troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2," Biden said. "We will bring an end to it."

The German Chancellor joined him in the threat.






sycasey
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movielover said:

Not an expert in any, but all are widely considered to be true.

"Widely considered" by who? Anonymous Twitter accounts? There's no hard evidence for any of it.
movielover
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Biden's on tape saying we'll take it out. Shultz supported him.

I promise it wasn't Zimbabwe, El Salvador, or Lichtenstein.

When you remove those without motive or capability, it's a very small list to consider.
Cal88
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Anne Applebaum's husband and EU insider disagrees with Sycasey.
oski003
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sycasey said:

movielover said:

Not an expert in any, but all are widely considered to be true.

"Widely considered" by who? Anonymous Twitter accounts? There's no hard evidence for any of it.


Folks who aren't blind and deaf.
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