The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

1,444,357 Views | 11874 Replies | Last: 2 hrs ago by bear2034
oskidunker
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bear2034 said:

bearister said:

I'm confused. As we have learned here from our BI MAGA brothers, and Col. MacGregor, naturally, Ukraine bad, Russia good.

Reposted with permission from helltopay1:

Remember when Biden held up millions of dollars to Ukraine because a Ukraine prosecutor was investigating Burisma, the energy company which had Hunter Biden on its board????
Biden actually went on TV and said, "you are not getting a penny unless the Ukraine prosecutor is fired...Son of a *****...they fired the prosecutor..."

The money was restored...How is this not an impeachable offense????Obama was President at the time.....How did Obama escape responsibility for this?????I used to think Bill & Hillary were the most corrupt couple in American history...If Barack and Joe can be defined as a couple, maybe they can split the trophy...


Fyi. Helltopay1 is deceased
Eastern Oregon Bear
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oskidunker said:

bear2034 said:

bearister said:

I'm confused. As we have learned here from our BI MAGA brothers, and Col. MacGregor, naturally, Ukraine bad, Russia good.

Reposted with permission from helltopay1:

Remember when Biden held up millions of dollars to Ukraine because a Ukraine prosecutor was investigating Burisma, the energy company which had Hunter Biden on its board????
Biden actually went on TV and said, "you are not getting a penny unless the Ukraine prosecutor is fired...Son of a *****...they fired the prosecutor..."

The money was restored...How is this not an impeachable offense????Obama was President at the time.....How did Obama escape responsibility for this?????I used to think Bill & Hillary were the most corrupt couple in American history...If Barack and Joe can be defined as a couple, maybe they can split the trophy...


Fyi. Helltopay1 is deceased
His claim of having helltopay1's permission is just another example of how bear2034 routinely lies in his postings. He cares little about being truthful. Truthfulness is for losers in his mind. Lying is justified if he can appear to own the libs for a moment or two.
bearister
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" His claim of having helltopay1's permission is just another example of how bear2034 routinely lies….."

Not necessarily:

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cal83dls79
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oskidunker said:

bear2034 said:

bearister said:

I'm confused. As we have learned here from our BI MAGA brothers, and Col. MacGregor, naturally, Ukraine bad, Russia good.

Reposted with permission from helltopay1:

Remember when Biden held up millions of dollars to Ukraine because a Ukraine prosecutor was investigating Burisma, the energy company which had Hunter Biden on its board????
Biden actually went on TV and said, "you are not getting a penny unless the Ukraine prosecutor is fired...Son of a *****...they fired the prosecutor..."

The money was restored...How is this not an impeachable offense????Obama was President at the time.....How did Obama escape responsibility for this?????I used to think Bill & Hillary were the most corrupt couple in American history...If Barack and Joe can be defined as a couple, maybe they can split the trophy...


Fyi. Helltopay1 is deceased
His claim of having helltopay1's permission is just another example of how bear2034 routinely lies in his postings. He cares little about being truthful. Truthfulness is for losers in his mind. Lying is justified if he can appear to own the libs for a moment or two.
new tag line for 2034: "I see dead people"
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
movielover
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Rubio meeting Lavrov at present in Malaysia.

Meanwhile ... 100,000 Polish largely women and children were killed by Ukraine in WWII massacre.

DiabloWags
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Former VP Mike Pence in an interview said that "the isolationists around Trump have lost their foothold"
DiabloWags
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cal83dls79 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oskidunker said:

bear2034 said:

bearister said:

I'm confused. As we have learned here from our BI MAGA brothers, and Col. MacGregor, naturally, Ukraine bad, Russia good.

Reposted with permission from helltopay1:

Remember when Biden held up millions of dollars to Ukraine because a Ukraine prosecutor was investigating Burisma, the energy company which had Hunter Biden on its board????
Biden actually went on TV and said, "you are not getting a penny unless the Ukraine prosecutor is fired...Son of a *****...they fired the prosecutor..."

The money was restored...How is this not an impeachable offense????Obama was President at the time.....How did Obama escape responsibility for this?????I used to think Bill & Hillary were the most corrupt couple in American history...If Barack and Joe can be defined as a couple, maybe they can split the trophy...


Fyi. Helltopay1 is deceased
His claim of having helltopay1's permission is just another example of how bear2034 routinely lies in his postings. He cares little about being truthful. Truthfulness is for losers in his mind. Lying is justified if he can appear to own the libs for a moment or two.
new tag line for 2034: "I see dead people"

Haven't seen a post from bear2034 since 1:32 am July 7th.

He was MIA when the bombs were being dropped on IRAN
and is now MIA as the DOJ has announced that there is no Epstein client list.

He must be on "vacation".
movielover
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Eurowennies.

Cal88
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2 1/2 years from now, the Ukraine war will have been over.

The Russians have launched nearly 500 drones on Ukrainian targets - weapon stashes, drone factories, NATO weapons shipments from Poland, ammo depots, and military airfields.


You have to wonder how long the Ukrainians can sustain that kind of sustained damage.
movielover
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Election Wizard@ElectionWiz

BREAKING: Trump says he will make a 'major statement' regarding Russia on Monday
Cal88
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It looks like it's back to the Biden-Graham-McCain war to the last Ukrainian policy again.

tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:

It looks like it's back to the Biden-Graham-McCain war to the last Ukrainian policy again.


This admin tried pretty damn hard to get to a peace deal. It isn't happening. Predominantly, Russia continues to attack. So it is time for a change to policy. This is entirely rationale. I just truly hope there are no US boots on the ground.
sycasey
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Well well well, not so easy to get Russia to stop a war, is it?
Cal88
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Istanbul Plus (terms almost agreed to back in april 22) would have ended this war, Putin's terms were favorable to Ukraine, they represent the moderate faction in Russia:
-Neutrality for Ukraine, no NATO membership or foreign troops
-Minority rights, including Russian and other languages (Hungarian) not being suppressed, restoration of the old line Orthodox Church
-Freeze at roughly the current borders, 4 oblasts and Crimea recognized as part of Russia

Ukraine summarily rejected these terms, as result they are going to lose another 4 oblasts at least, more than 40% of their original territory, perhaps even their entire coastline, and several hundred thousands additional casualties.

To what end??

Mearsheimer chimes in on Ukraine at the 19th minute, beggining is on Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/live/RFFzClxBmb8
bearister
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"President Trump is planning to sell weapons to NATO allies with the understanding that they will then provide them to Ukraine, three sources familiar with the discussions tell Axios' Marc Caputo, Barak Ravid and Dave Lawler."
Axios
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movielover
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bearister said:

"President Trump is planning to sell weapons to NATO allies with the understanding that they will then provide them to Ukraine, three sources familiar with the discussions tell Axios' Marc Caputo, Barak Ravid and Dave Lawler."
Axios


Remove the pretending. Ukraine and Russia aren't in NATO, but NATO is directing and supplying our proxy war.

POTUS has a big announcement on Monday regarding Russia.
tequila4kapp
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First of all, you are introducing something from nearly 3.5 years ago.

Second, its a bit hilarious to characterize that deal as favorable to Ukraine. Because every country would be just thrilled to be forced to give up land (Crimea), have an invaders language mandated as your country's second language, forego solid security considerations that protect you against the invader (NATO) without receiving any security considerations from the invader, etc., etc., etc. And never mind that the invader committed the Bucha massacre a mere week or two after the negotiations were undertaken. Yeah, that's like Christmas in the spring-time for Ukraine. They were cray cray to not jump on that deal.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

Istanbul Plus (terms almost agreed to back in april 22) would have ended this war, Putin's terms were favorable to Ukraine, they represent the moderate faction in Russia:
-Neutrality for Ukraine, no NATO membership or foreign troops
-Minority rights, including Russian and other languages (Hungarian) not being suppressed, restoration of the old line Orthodox Church
-Freeze at roughly the current borders, 4 oblasts and Crimea recognized as part of Russia

Ukraine summarily rejected these terms, as result they are going to lose another 4 oblasts at least, more than 40% of their original territory, perhaps even their entire coastline, and several hundred thousands additional casualties.

To what end??

Mearsheimer chimes in on Ukraine at the 19th minute, beggining is on Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/live/RFFzClxBmb8
It's cute how you guys still believe that Russia would have held by any agreement.
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

First of all, you are introducing something from nearly 3.5 years ago.

Second, its a bit hilarious to characterize that deal as favorable to Ukraine. Because every country would be just thrilled to be forced to give up land (Crimea), have an invaders language mandated as your country's second language, forego solid security considerations that protect you against the invader (NATO) without receiving any security considerations from the invader, etc., etc., etc. And never mind that the invader committed the Bucha massacre a mere week or two after the negotiations were undertaken. Yeah, that's like Christmas in the spring-time for Ukraine. They were cray cray to not jump on that deal.

You are showing some blatant ignorance wrt the basic cultural and historic aspect of Ukraine.

1- Russian is the native language of around 35%-45% of pre-war Ukraine. It is not an "invader's language". Ukrainian is a patois or local dialect that is primarily spoken in the west of the country, with substantial regional variations. That language has only been codified into one standard starting in the late 19th century. The language closest to Ukrainian, is Russian, the differences are similar to those between Norwegian and Swedish or Catalan and Occitan (old southern French language).

The post-Maidan coup Kiev government wants to ban the use of Russian in schools, media and government - this is a non-starter for the Russian minority in the east. Try banning French in Quebec, or Catalan in eastern Spain, and see what happens...

2-Crimea was never Ukrainian, it was gifted by Khrushchev in 1954, transferred from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR. Its population wants nothing to do with post-Maidan Kiev, no one speaks Ukrainian there. All the polls and referenda conducted there, including by western sources, confirm this. After Crimea joined Russia, Ukraine cut off freshwater to Crimea for years, out of sheer spite, dumping all the Diepr water into the Black Sea instead of the Crimea channel. How do you think Crimeans, whose economy and agriculture were damaged from this feel about it?

3- Neutrality has worked out great for Austria, that is the right model for Ukraine as a buffer state between Russian and NATO.

4- Bucha was carried over by Ukrainian commandos, who massacred locals that fraternalized with the Russian troops. It was staged and organized as a psy-op by the Brits in order to sabotage the Istanbul peace talks. The fact that there were no instances of Russian massacres in the years following that massacre is one big clue as to the authenticity of the established Bucha narrative.

Bucha and other massacres like the ones in Kursk by Ukrainian troops against local civilians is the reason the Russians will never withdraw from the territories they have annexed, the local population is ethnic Russian and would face great retribution from Kiev if these regions were turned over. Zelensky's Ukraine is a regime that glorifies as its founding father Bandera and other 1930s Ukrainian nazis who despise Russians, while the people from the Donbas were Russians fought on the other side against Hitler. It was never going to work out, unless Kiev dumps Bandera's legacy.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

Istanbul Plus (terms almost agreed to back in april 22) would have ended this war, Putin's terms were favorable to Ukraine, they represent the moderate faction in Russia:
-Neutrality for Ukraine, no NATO membership or foreign troops
-Minority rights, including Russian and other languages (Hungarian) not being suppressed, restoration of the old line Orthodox Church
-Freeze at roughly the current borders, 4 oblasts and Crimea recognized as part of Russia

Ukraine summarily rejected these terms, as result they are going to lose another 4 oblasts at least, more than 40% of their original territory, perhaps even their entire coastline, and several hundred thousands additional casualties.

To what end??

Mearsheimer chimes in on Ukraine at the 19th minute, beggining is on Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/live/RFFzClxBmb8
It's cute how you guys still believe that Russia would have held by any agreement.

According to Clinton, Bush and Obama, the Russians have never broken any agreement. They did cheat on one nuclear disarmament treaty IIRC, but many agreements were unilaterally scrapped by the US after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, not to mention the promise of "not moving NATO one inch eastwards" to Gorbachev.
tequila4kapp
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1. Surely even you appreciate the difference between having some percentage of the population speaking a 2nd language vs having that language forced on you as an official language by a military oppressor. Or would you contend the fact that Spanish is spoken in the SW means Mexico has carte blanche to invade then insist on terms of its use?

2. Crimea's demography is irrelevant. The fact is the land - the property - legally belonged to Ukraine and was militarily taken by Russia.

3. What are you talking about? Austria is bordered by Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Italy, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. No mortal enemies. No countries that seek to remove it from an alliance with others.

4. Bucha was perpetrated by Russia.
https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/military-history-and-science/bucha-massacre
"While the Ukrainian government accused Russia of war crimes, Russian authorities denied the allegations, claiming that the killings occurred after their troops had left the city and labeling the reports as Western propaganda. However, satellite imagery has countered these claims, indicating that many of the killings took place during the occupation."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/4/will-the-bucha-massacre-wake-up-the-world
"They were shelling all the time, around the clock, and all the shells flew over my house," Oleh Matsenko, who survived 33 days of Russian attacks in Bucha, a once-tranquil town northwest of Kyiv, told Al Jazeera.
Speaking four days after Russian troops retreated, he said he was particularly frightened when a column of dozens of tanks and armoured vehicles slowly drove by surrounded by infantrymen peeking into the doors and windows of the houses on his street.

"The column was so big that it took them about two hours to drive past my house," he said.
Going out for food was a gamble, he said.

Some of his neighbours left their dark, cold houses that had no electricity, running water or natural gas supply to get bread or charge their mobile phones but never came back.

One day, he went to a market that survived the shelling to get food for himself and several friends and neighbours who flocked to his house, which was warmed by a wooden stove.

And he saw bodies mostly civilians shot dead by Russian troops.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/video/russia-ukraine-bucha-massacre-takeaways.html
President Vladimir V. Putin *** claimed that the Russian Army had nothing to do with it.

But an eight-month visual investigation by The New York Times concluded that the perpetrators of the massacre along Yablunska Street were Russian paratroopers from the 234th Air Assault Regiment led by Lt. Col. Artyom Gorodilov.

The evidence shows that the killings were part of a deliberate and systematic effort to ruthlessly secure a route to the capital, Kyiv.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern
UN report details summary executions of civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine

As for your claims of no additional atrocities - as if that even proves Russia's innocence in Bucha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ukraine
sycasey
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Truly amazing that these guys keep perpetuating this nonsense that Russia didn't do Bucha.
MinotStateBeav
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Why isn't Europe stepping up is the real question? People painting this as a USA problem, it's not. Europe should be the ones doing the hard work here. We should be assisting as little as possible.
movielover
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MinotStateBeav said:

Why isn't Europe stepping up is the real question? People painting this as a USA problem, it's not. Europe should be the ones doing the hard work here. We should be assisting as little as possible.


European posers, militaries weak, undermanned, underfunded, Woke.
movielover
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Chess?

movielover
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movielover
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Douglas MacGregor now claims Ukraine has lost between 1,700,000 and 1,800,000 KIA, while Russia has 'only' lost 125,000 KIA. (I think the Russian number is higher, but still lopsided.)

Part of his logic is that a retreating military takes more losses. They're also fighting w drained men, and untrained men in their 40s and 50s. And Russias tactics have improved, use if drones, etc.

He claims a sizeable portion of Russians want the war to go faster, get it over with.

https://www.youtube.com/live/tL336a7RMeg?si=tEzVzYnU3oLUC6hn
DiabloWags
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movielover said:

Douglas MacGregor now claims . . .

movielover
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Minimally trained older conscript lasts less than one month.

Cal88
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movielover said:

Douglas MacGregor now claims Ukraine has lost between 1,700,000 and 1,800,000 KIA, while Russia has 'only' lost 125,000 KIA. (I think the Russian number is higher, but still lopsided.)

Part of his logic is that a retreating military takes more losses. They're also fighting w drained men, and untrained men in their 40s and 50s. And Russias tactics have improved, use if drones, etc.

He claims a sizeable portion of Russians want the war to go faster, get it over with.

https://www.youtube.com/live/tL336a7RMeg?si=tEzVzYnU3oLUC6hn


The Ukrainian KIA and deserter figures are intertwined, hard to tell where one stops and the other starts. Ukraine doesn't account for many of its KIAs, they count them as MIAs so they don't have to remunerate their families. The KIA+MIA figure for Ukraine is over 2M.
bearister
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Are the Russian soldier KIA numbers quoted by Russia accurate?

AI Overview:

"Russia does not provide regular official updates on its military losses in Ukraine. However, various sources offer estimates, which differ significantly.

According to the <Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)>, Russian fatalities in Ukraine are estimated to be as high as 250,000 between February 2022 and May 2025. This represents a significant increase compared to previous Russian and Soviet conflicts.

The <British Ministry of Defence> estimates that over one million Russian troops have been killed or injured since the full-scale invasion began in February 2022. A study by CSIS aligns with this, putting total Russian casualties, including the wounded, at over 950,000.

It's important to note that these figures are difficult to verify independently, as both sides have reasons to underreport their own casualties and inflate those of their opponents. The BBC Russian Service and Mediazona have jointly compiled a list of named Russian military personnel killed, identifying over 111,000 individuals, but believe the true death toll is likely higher. In contrast, Russia last publicly reported military casualties early in the war, stating around 6,000 soldiers had been killed."
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DiabloWags
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TRUMP AUTHORIZES PATRIOT MISSILES TO UKRAINE.

Trump says US will send Patriot missiles to Ukraine
| Reuters

https://share.google/FILBAH04arAetoaZQ
Cal88
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DiabloWags said:

TRUMP AUTHORIZES PATRIOT MISSILES TO UKRAINE.


Ukraine has already received at least 8 Patriot batteries. Most of them are already damaged. the question was whether Trump was going to send JASSM cruise missiles, apparently not.
bearister
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WW3 tension spike as Putin 'giving detailed thought to using nukes - World News - News - Daily Express US


https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/177338/vladimir-putin-giving-detailed-thought-using-nukes-ukraine-ww3-fears-explode

"Vladimir Putin is seriously contemplating the use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, warns a former high-ranking British Army officer. Despite Russia's overwhelming advantage in manpower and weaponry, it has struggled to make substantial progress on the battlefield.

A recent study by the US Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) highlighted that since January 2024, Putin's army has only managed to capture approximately 5,000 square kilometers of territory.

This represents less than one percent of Ukraine's total land area and has been achieved at a steep price in terms of lives lost and equipment expended…….

This pace is even slower than the Somme offensive during World War I, where French and British troops advanced an average of 80 meters per day. Hamish de Bretton-Gordon cautions that Putin may be tempted to resort to nuclear options due to the lack of significant advancements on the frontlines."
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DiabloWags
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Cal88 said:

DiabloWags said:

TRUMP AUTHORIZES PATRIOT MISSILES TO UKRAINE.


Ukraine has already received at least 8 Patriot batteries. Most of them are already damaged. the question was whether Trump was going to send JASSM cruise missiles, apparently not.

How many rubles do you get paid each day?

Two Patriot systems are being prepared for Ukraine, says Pistorius

Trump's Decision on Patriot Missiles Gives Ukraine Cautious Optimism - The New York Times






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