The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:02p, 9/17/25
Russia could have easily given Ukraine the Gaza treatment, pulverizing all their cities, cutting off their food, medicine, killing every journalist and their family, levelling entire blocks in cities, every school, hospital, water treatment plant etc. The Russians have used 10 million shells in this war already. No one is starving in Ukraine.

They have been firing huge salvoes of hundreds of missiles and drones that only result in a couple of deaths, firing on military infrastructure, plants and depots at night when they are empty, while the Israelis would kill hundreds of civilians with just a few bombs on densely populated civilian shelters and encampments.

Percent of deaths that are civilians:
Ukraine: 1%-2%
Gaza: 83%-90%

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:03p, 9/17/25
Cal88 said:
Russia could have easily given Ukraine the Gaza treatment

No, I don't think they could have.
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 7:14p, 9/17/25
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world, Ukraine has been aided by the USA, NATO, CIA, and Europe.
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 7:15p, 9/17/25
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:16p, 9/17/25
They can carpet bomb Kharkiv, Kiev, Dnipro, the three largest cities in Ukraine, where people go about their daily lives as if there was no war.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:22p, 9/17/25
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:00p, 9/17/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 9:12p, 9/17/25
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


Surface ships are obsolete, hypersonic missiles can easily sink them. Even the Houthis were able to deny access to the USN.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:24p, 9/17/25
Cal88 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


Surface ships are obsolete, hypersonic missiles can easily sink them. Even the Houthis were able to deny access to the USN.

The houthis got blown out by the US Navy fighter jets...
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 9:57p, 9/17/25
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


Surface ships are obsolete, hypersonic missiles can easily sink them. Even the Houthis were able to deny access to the USN.

The houthis got blown out by the US Navy fighter jets...


US carriers steered clear from the Yemeni coast once it became clear that they would be vulnerable to Houthi missiles.


Houthis may have possibly damaged the USS Eisenhower deck:


Both the Chinese and the Russians have longer range hypersonic missiles whose range far exceeds that of the carrier-borne jets, rendering carriers useless.
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MinotStateBeav
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10:59p, 9/17/25
The chinese navy spends its days ramming filipino fishing boats. The Chinese and Russians aren't giving Houthis high tech missiles btw. They also don't have a huge amount of those missiles.
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cbbass1
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 11:35a, 9/18/25
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to cbbass1 • 11:43a, 9/18/25
cbbass1 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

A lot of those ships are converted trawlers and commercial vessels. Generally speaking its very hard to sink a US Navy ship (not impossible, just they tend to have thick hulls)
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movielover
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12:28p, 9/18/25
Listened a bit to Scott Ritter last evening, he seemed quite somber.

Apparently as Ukraine collapses, the powers that be don't want an implosion or WWIII. Talks are underway for Poland to take western Ukraine under its umbrella. Unsure if this means it becomes part of Poland, or they administer it temporarily.

When are there elections/ when is Zelensky pushed out?
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to movielover • 12:31p, 9/18/25
movielover said:
Listened a bit to Scott Ritter last evening, he seemed quite somber.

Apparently as Ukraine collapses, the powers that be don't want an implosion or WWIII. Talks are underway for Poland to take western Ukraine under its umbrella. Unsure if this means it becomes part of Poland, or they administer it temporarily.

When are there elections/ when is Zelensky pushed out?


Unless Russia allows it, wouldn't Poland then be putting its butt on the line and I can't see NATO being part of that defense, that's not what NATO was for.
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 12:32p, 9/18/25
MinotStateBeav said:
cbbass1 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

A lot of those ships are converted trawlers and commercial vessels. Generally speaking its very hard to sink a US Navy ship (not impossible, just they tend to have thick hulls)


The kinetic energy of a Mach10+ missile hitting any ship is going to go through thick steel the same way a shaped charge goes through a thick steel tank hull.

In case of a hot conflict with China, USN fleets will steer well clear of the 1st Island Chain and not venture far beyond the 2nd Island Chain.

The Russians were able to quickly scale up their ammunition and shell plants early on in the Ukraine war because they had a large decommissioned production capacity from the Soviet era. I suspect the Chinese can also quickly scale up their military production to wartime levels, given their gigantic industrial capacity.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:36p, 9/18/25
Cal88 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
cbbass1 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

A lot of those ships are converted trawlers and commercial vessels. Generally speaking its very hard to sink a US Navy ship (not impossible, just they tend to have thick hulls)


The kinetic energy of a Mach10+ missile hitting any ship is going to go through thick steel the same way a shaped charge goes through a thick steel tank hull.

In case of a hot conflict with China, USN fleets will steer well clear of the 1st Island Chain and not venture far beyond the 2nd Island Chain.

The Russians were able to quickly scale up their ammunition and shell plants early on in the Ukraine war because they had a large decommissioned production capacity from the Soviet era. I suspect the Chinese can also quickly scale up their military production to wartime levels, given their gigantic industrial capacity.

Completely missing the point to what you replied to, and I already said, China does not have that many mach 10 missiles lol, they aren't winning a war using them.
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Cal88
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 1:22p, 9/18/25
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
cbbass1 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

A lot of those ships are converted trawlers and commercial vessels. Generally speaking its very hard to sink a US Navy ship (not impossible, just they tend to have thick hulls)


The kinetic energy of a Mach10+ missile hitting any ship is going to go through thick steel the same way a shaped charge goes through a thick steel tank hull.

In case of a hot conflict with China, USN fleets will steer well clear of the 1st Island Chain and not venture far beyond the 2nd Island Chain.

The Russians were able to quickly scale up their ammunition and shell plants early on in the Ukraine war because they had a large decommissioned production capacity from the Soviet era. I suspect the Chinese can also quickly scale up their military production to wartime levels, given their gigantic industrial capacity.

Completely missing the point to what you replied to, and I already said, China does not have that many mach 10 missiles lol, they aren't winning a war using them.



A country that produces 35 million cars per year will be able to churn out missiles by the thousands, especially one whose MIC is under state control. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese already have a lot of highly automated excess capacity already in place in their key weapons programs.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:20p, 9/18/25
Cal88 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
cbbass1 said:
MinotStateBeav said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
Russia now arguably has the best military in the world

"Arguably" doing a lot of work there.


Right now it's a 3-way tie between the US, Russia and China in terms of military force overall. The US has the best air force by far, Russia the best land army and China the most military industrial might.

uhh forgetting the navy....the navy is what turns wars. While China is trying to contest the USA, their blue water navy is not close to the USN.


You might want to check your sourcing.

China's Navy is now the world's largest, with 787 ships, total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

A lot of those ships are converted trawlers and commercial vessels. Generally speaking its very hard to sink a US Navy ship (not impossible, just they tend to have thick hulls)


The kinetic energy of a Mach10+ missile hitting any ship is going to go through thick steel the same way a shaped charge goes through a thick steel tank hull.

In case of a hot conflict with China, USN fleets will steer well clear of the 1st Island Chain and not venture far beyond the 2nd Island Chain.

The Russians were able to quickly scale up their ammunition and shell plants early on in the Ukraine war because they had a large decommissioned production capacity from the Soviet era. I suspect the Chinese can also quickly scale up their military production to wartime levels, given their gigantic industrial capacity.


Russia also has NK, a win win (energy - ammo).

Russia's new intermediate hypersonic missile would give the US, and NATO, fits. How would we even land troops in the EU, between Hazel, drones, and glide drones?

We'd have ICBMs and stealth bombers.

AI Overview: "Russia's newest hypersonic missile is the Oreshnik (meaning "hazel tree"), a nuclear-capable, intermediate-range ballistic missile that entered service in 2025 and was test-fired in late 2024. It uses multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs), which can split from the main missile and target different areas [36], with speeds reaching Mach 10 or higher and a reported range covering all of Europe. ..."
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sycasey
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3:49p, 9/18/25


https://medicine.yale.edu/lab/khoshnood/news-article/ukraines-stolen-children-inside-russias-network-of-re-education-and-militarization/
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ACC Bear
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In reply to sycasey • 4:28p, 9/18/25
sycasey said:


https://medicine.yale.edu/lab/khoshnood/news-article/ukraines-stolen-children-inside-russias-network-of-re-education-and-militarization/

Appreciate the wartime propaganda!
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smh
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In reply to sycasey • 4:39p, 9/18/25
so sad, aand maddening
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sycasey
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7:28p, 9/18/25
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Cal88
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In reply to ACC Bear • 7:44p, 9/18/25
ACC Bear said:
sycasey said:


https://medicine.yale.edu/lab/khoshnood/news-article/ukraines-stolen-children-inside-russias-network-of-re-education-and-militarization/

Appreciate the wartime propaganda!



The Yale propaganda team has been particularly vitriolic and irrational towards Russia. led by Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, Dean of their business school, they were the main builders of the Russian economic collapse narrative, that turned out to be completely bunk.



The Ukrainian kids that were moved to Russia were from Russian Donbas families who had family on the other side of the border.

Since the 1990s, Ukraine has been the hub of many nefarious traffics in Europe, arms traffic, organ traffic, sex traffic, and child traffic well before the war, and things have gotten even worse since with literally millions of new orphans and fatherless kids.

Quote:
According to Ukrainian media the country along with Moldova and Portugal became a European center of child sex tourism. With respect to the situation Mark Capaldi, ECPAT's head of policy and research, expressed a concern that the countries "see tourism as a fantastic economic development sector" ignoring the risks which international tourists impend to the children.
The sexual exploitation of children is most obvious in Kyiv and some other big cities such as Odesa, Kharkiv and Sevastopol. Many children are forced to migrate there to get education and then they are getting involved into Ukrainian sex industry to support themselves financially. An involvement of Ukrainian adolescent boys into prostitution has risen a number of special concerns.

There is a consistent trend of human trafficking from Ukraine, especially women and children. International Organization for Migration reports that Ukraine became one of the major sources of minors and females for their forced sexual exploitation; as a rule they are sold to Balkans, Central Europe and Middle East. An average price of Ukrainian girl is around $2,000 $10,000 depending on her destination. In Israel a Ukrainian youngster may earn up to $50,000 $100,000 annually for her pimp and have nothing left for herself. According to the available statistics the number of Ukrainian children involved in prostitution is growing both domestically and abroad.

UN Special Rapporteur on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography Juan Miguel Petit concluded that the human trafficking and commercial exploitation of children are major problems in the country. After his visit to Ukraine he filed a special report to the Human Rights Committee, which says that 10% of the victims of human trafficking are aged between 13 and 18. Children of Ukraine are being exploited in different businesses for example as servants, in street trading, and to provide sex services. A typical model of the human trafficking in Ukraine is that the children are becoming victims of sexual exploitation residing within their country. In the majority of the incidents the Ukrainian criminals lure the potential victims into debt and then force them become prostitutes.

Citizens of the country have been reported to be involved in the production of child pornography, with some entities masquerading as "Child Model Agencies".

https://ecpat.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/EXSUM_A4A_CIS_UKRAINE.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prostitution_in_Ukraine
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smh
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In reply to sycasey • 8:02p, 9/18/25
daaamn # life is hard, then we die
tnx psych
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 8:17p, 9/18/25
sycasey said:


The Kyiv army tried to bomb the Donbas into submission since 2014, their sitting president Poroshenko even boasting how Donbas children will grow up cowering in their basement. They have killed several thousand children in the process.



The channel above is by a Ukrainian nationalist who believes that Russian minorities who have been in Latvia for generations should be deported if they fail a Latvian language test.



People like her want to do exactly the same thing in Ukraine, force the large Russian minority to abandon their language and rich cultural heritage for the Ukrainian dialect, which was only codified in the 19th century, and ironically enough, was promoted by the Soviets, for whom Russian nationalism was their archenemy.

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:06p, 9/18/25
Why doesn't the Human Rights Committe investigate Pakistani child grooming gangs?
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:26p, 9/18/25
Cal88 said:
The channel above is by a Ukrainian nationalist who believes that Russian minorities who have been in Latvia for generations should be deported if they fail a Latvian language test.




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sycasey
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9:59p, 9/18/25
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 10:21p, 9/18/25
Ukraine fired several thousand anti-air missiles from batteries located in cities, notably older S-300s produced in the 1970s-80s, that were prone to misfiring due to their age, with a 300lb warhead.

The Russians did level cities that were in the frontline, like Bakhmut, mostly small towns except for Mariupol, which is currently being rebuilt, but they did not bomb random apartment blocks in remote cities. They did target infrastructure buildings though, power stations, weapons depots, military outposts and even hotels where NATO staff was gathering.
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 10:34p, 9/18/25
movielover said:
Why doesn't the Human Rights Committe investigate Pakistani child grooming gangs?


Maybe the better question here is, why did successive Tory and Labour governments let them happen??

Are you familiar with the Jimmy Saville case? 500 kids abused by this one freak who was a fixture of British TV and a leading celebrity for decades. At least one former Prime Minister was a known pedo predator. Even Maggie knew and covered up. The rot runs deep.

https://www.france24.com/en/20150805-ex-british-pm-faces-child-abuse-claim
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/2/26/british-politicians-covered-up-child-sex-abuse-for-decades
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27047442

The Pak. grooming gangs are an exclusively British problem, there are no Pakistani grooming gangs in the US, Canada, Australia, countries with very large Pak. communities.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:49a, 9/19/25
Several studies have said that local councils, schools, and police departments were worried about singling out new ethic groups and a concern for being "politically correct" (supporting diversity / multiculturalism). Some school officials also claimed the lurid, ghastly details were too far fetched to be true - but why not investigate?

Some have suggested that some local officials / LEO were / are paid off (drug trade?), and there also is the implication that in towns like Lutin with a large young population, LEO were concerned for their own safety. Twenty five years ago the UK balked at deporting radical clerics.

The numbers I've viewed for most of Western Europe show a 500% to 800% increase in r*pe the past 2-3 decades, and a shocking number are "gang r*pes". If we go by the old axiom that r*pe is dramatically under-reported, the numbers would be obscene.

In these countries the perpetrators are typically defined as "Middle Eastern and North African". The British version appears to be some form of copy cat learned behavior / new cultural norm. Modern communication (cell phones, videos) and pornography seem to have influenced their behaviors.

Just today I saw a video of a young woman in Paris crying bc she wants to explore the magnificent city, but she's terrified to leave her apartment. Young girls and children are constantly bring approached on the street and in parks, and older men routinely take pictures of young school children.

The Pakistani / Muslim vote is substantial in some areas, and since women likely vote in lockstep w their husband's, that's a big voting block. Shabana Mahmood was recently appointed as the UK's new Home Secretary, the first Muslim (Pakistani) woman in this position.
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smh
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In reply to sycasey • 12:52a, 9/19/25
> Lavrov: "The Russian army never strikes civilian targets"

aand never lies, riiight
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Cal88
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In reply to smh • 5:49a, 9/19/25
smh said:
> Lavrov: "The Russian army never strikes civilian targets"

aand never lies, riiight


Civilian casualties in the Ukraine war amount to 2% of the total. Contrast with Gaza where it's around 90%.
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smh
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:23a, 9/19/25
Cal88 said:
smh said:
> Lavrov: "The Russian army never strikes civilian targets"

aand never lies, riiight


Civilian casualties in the Ukraine war amount to 2% of the total. Contrast with Gaza where it's around 90%.

yeahbut '88 in Gaza there's (really) only one army left.
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