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The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

2,272,022 Views | 13939 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by DaddyLegend
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

This war needs diplomacy

By God, you've cracked it! Why hasn't anyone tried this before?

This you?

sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.

Who doesn't? The problem is in what either side will settle for.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.

Who doesn't?


NATO and the radical nationalists in Kiev.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.

Who doesn't?


NATO and the radical nationalists in Kiev.

No, I'm pretty sure NATO would have preferred that Russia not start the war either.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.

Who doesn't?


NATO and the radical nationalists in Kiev.

No, I'm pretty sure NATO would have preferred that Russia not start the war either.


Former NATO chief literally stated that they started it in 2014.



And they've certainly sabotaged several serious attempts at stopping it (Minsk Agreements and Istanbul peace plan). And still not working towards a settlement along the lines of these previous accords.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.

Who doesn't?


NATO and the radical nationalists in Kiev.

No, I'm pretty sure NATO would have preferred that Russia not start the war either.


Former NATO chief literally stated that they started it in 2014.

As I have stated many many many many many many many many many many many times before, he is referring to when Russia annexed Crimea.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.


We all want a diplomatic settlement to the war
Censorship has always been a tool of the fascist
smh
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sycasey said:

Who doesn't? The problem is in what either side will settle for.

um, min druthers Both sides will settle for (obviously)
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.


We all want a diplomatic settlement to the war


You're totally mistaken here, Kiev and NATO have steadfastly refused any compromise and have not engaged in any serious diplomatic negotiation since the Istanbul agreement, scuttled by Boris Johnson and the ultranationalists in Kiev.


Quote:

As I have stated many many many many many many many many many many many times before, he is referring to when Russia annexed Crimea.

There was no fighting in that process, the local army garrisons defected and the referendum sealed the return of the mostly Russian peninsula to Russia. It was only ceded to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 1950s, back when USSR internal borders were largely irrelevant.

The actual fighting started later in 2014, in the Donbas when local garrisons defected and Kiev sent its tanks and bombers to crush the local rebellion.
sycasey
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Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.


The western provinces are not favorable to Russians, not annexable, the Russians don't want that kind of trouble, they're not that dumb. They will instead have a demilitarized, neutral "rump" western Ukraine that would be established after they win the war. The Russians are now planning on annexing all majority Russian/Russophone parts of Ukraine, the yellow parts below, roughly 40% of former Ukraine.



Note that provinces and cities like Mariupol that have been annexed in the eastern provinces have had no resistance or guerilla movements to speak of in the 3 years they have been part of the Russia. The locals were hostile to garrisons like the Azov Battalion that were largely composed of nationalist militants from western Ukraine. The Russians have heavily invested in the reconstruction of that city that was largely leveled during the war.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.


The western provinces are not favorable to Russians, not annexable, the Russians don't want that kind of trouble, they're not that dumb.

I'm old enough to remember when you people said Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine at all because he wasn't that dumb.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.


The western provinces are not favorable to Russians, not annexable, the Russians don't want that kind of trouble, they're not that dumb.

I'm old enough to remember when you people said Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine at all because he wasn't that dumb.


At this point, that is a red herring in this discussion that you like to keep reusing. Russia invaded Ukraine in February 22 because Ukraine had amassed a well-equipped army of 60K that was ready to overrun the Donbas rebels. Russia mobilized around 150K soldiers along the border threatening to invade if Kiev didn't back down, and they didn't, essentially calling Russia's bluff.

The Russians then invaded Ukraine in a "big arrow" blitzkrieg with a relatively small army that wasn't adequate to occupy Ukraine but which would threaten a large swath of Ukraine, seeking through this a political settlement, which was negotiated a few weeks after the invasion in Istanbul. The two parties were about to agree and end the war until Boris and co came in and told the Ukrainians that they would have all the weapons and funds they need to repel the Russians and reconquer Crimea. That was a historical turning point.

Note that the Istanbul Agreement called for Russia to withdraw from the Donbas and for that region to remain part of a Ukrainian federation along the lines of Catalonia in Spain or Quebec in Canada, provinces that have complete autonomy over their cultural policies (education, government services etc).

Going forward, Russia has clearly signaled that they would keep advancing until their main conditions would be met in a negotiated settlement. They've made it clear that barring this, they would annex historic "Novorossya", the region in yellow in that map above.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.


The western provinces are not favorable to Russians, not annexable, the Russians don't want that kind of trouble, they're not that dumb.

I'm old enough to remember when you people said Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine at all because he wasn't that dumb.


At this point, that is a red herring in this discussion that you like to keep reusing. Russia invaded Ukraine in February 22 because Ukraine had amassed a well-equipped army of 60K that was ready to overrun the Donbas rebels. Russia mobilized around 150K soldiers along the border threatening to invade if Kiev didn't back down, and they didn't, essentially calling Russia's bluff.

The Russians then invaded Ukraine in a "big arrow" blitzkrieg with a relatively small army that wasn't adequate to occupy Ukraine but which would threaten a large swath of Ukraine, seeking through this a political settlement, which was negotiated a few weeks after the invasion in Istanbul. The two parties were about to agree and end the war until Boris and co came in and told the Ukrainians that they would have all the weapons and funds they need to repel the Russians and reconquer Crimea. That was a historical turning point.

Note that the Istanbul Agreement called for Russia to withdraw from the Donbas and for that region to remain part of a Ukrainian federation along the lines of Catalonia in Spain or Quebec in Canada, provinces that have complete autonomy over their cultural policies (education, government services etc).

Going forward, Russia has clearly signaled that they would keep advancing until their main conditions would be met in a negotiated settlement. They've made it clear that barring this, they would annex historic "Novorossya", the region in yellow in that map above.

This is a lot of words to describe Russia invading Ukraine and trying to topple their government because Ukraine was doing military activities within its own borders. Not sure why you spend so much time trying to defend this action.

Also, the point I keep returning to remains relevant because you guys keep making confident predictions about the war and what Putin will or will not do, but you were dead wrong about the most important prediction. As such, I see no reason to trust any more of your confident predictions. By the way, we are also now on Year 4 of the war your sources confidently predicted Russia would win within a few months.
Haloski
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This three day war is going juuuuuust a little long.
oski003
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Haloski said:

This three day war is going juuuuuust a little long.


Yeah, why hasn't Ukraine pushed back Russia yet?
sycasey
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I've read a lot about the "Banderite Nazis" from Ukraine from the pro-Russia side, but maybe that particular call is coming from inside the house.



It is morally inconsistent to denounce Israel's actions with Palestine and then turn around and excuse Russia's actions in Ukraine.
Cal88
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oski003 said:

Haloski said:

This three day war is going juuuuuust a little long.


Yeah, why hasn't Ukraine pushed back Russia yet?


You have a point here beyond sarcasm, in that Ukraine hardliners genuinely believe that they are going to be able to reconquer Crimea and the Donbas, and are willing to keep throwing bodies into that plan as long as the money and weapons from NATO keep flowing.


Quote:

Sycasey:

This is a lot of words to describe Russia invading Ukraine and trying to topple their government because Ukraine was doing military activities within its own borders. Not sure why you spend so much time trying to defend this action.

You have the perspective of someone from a country whose continental borders are set in stone and have not moved since the 1800. The maps in eastern Europe have been constantly redefined, and in Ukraine, a country that was founded in the 1990s, these borders are being constantly redrawn. much like they have been in former Yugoslavia by NATO, based on ethnic lines not being compatible with the current borders.

In Ukraine in particular, the central government lost all legitimacy over the Donbas the moment they repressed the Russian minority there.

Quote:

Also, the point I keep returning to remains relevant because you guys keep making confident predictions about the war and what Putin will or will not do, but you were dead wrong about the most important prediction. As such, I see no reason to trust any more of your confident predictions. By the way, we are also now on Year 4 of the war your sources confidently predicted Russia would win within a few months.

It could be a few months, but more likely it will probably be a year or two, that is going to depend on whether the Russians are going to keep grinding at their current pace, or mobilize and push this war of attrition into higher gear. No one really knows for sure, but the final outcome is far less uncertain.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

It could be a few months, but more likely it will probably be a year or two, that is going to depend on whether the Russians are going to keep grinding at their current pace, or mobilize and push this war of attrition into higher gear. No one really knows for sure, but the final outcome is far less uncertain.

See you again in a year or two, I guess.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

You have the perspective of someone from a country whose continental borders are set in stone and have not moved since the 1800. The maps in eastern Europe have been constantly redefined, and in Ukraine, a country that was founded in the 1990s, these borders are being constantly redrawn. much like they have been in former Yugoslavia by NATO, based on ethnic lines not being compatible with the current borders..

Yes, I have the perspective of someone who thinks wars of conquest are bad and should be left in the past.

You apparently disagree.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.

For someone who complains about tweets from unverified randos, you sure love posting their propaganda when it comes to this thread.
Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

This war needs diplomacy

By God, you've cracked it! Why hasn't anyone tried this before?

This you?



Terrific strawman.




A little something to counter your delusion that the Ukraine government wants diplomacy.
Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

Honestly, this is not too different from how the more extreme Israeli ministers sound.



Anyone who believes Putin just wanted to stop with the eastern provinces is fooling themselves.

For someone who complains about tweets from unverified randos, you sure love posting their propaganda when it comes to this thread.

My goodness, I can't believe someone would post propaganda in this thread!

Your pearl clutching is noted.
sycasey
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Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

This war needs diplomacy

By God, you've cracked it! Why hasn't anyone tried this before?

This you?



Terrific strawman.




A little something to counter your delusion that the Ukraine government wants diplomacy.

A little something to counter your delusion that Putin only wants some eastern provinces in Ukraine.

Cal88
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^This guy is a shock jock TV personality, not an official Russian spokesman.
Aunburdened
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sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

This war needs diplomacy

By God, you've cracked it! Why hasn't anyone tried this before?

This you?



Terrific strawman.




A little something to counter your delusion that the Ukraine government wants diplomacy.

A little something to counter your delusion that Putin only wants some eastern provinces in Ukraine.



I didn't know that television hosts were as important as you think they are.

By the way, he said Russia should launch nuclear strikes against the United States in 2024, so since you take him so seriously, I suggest you start building your bunker now while you still have time.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1875478/vladimir-putin-ally-threatens-us-nuclear-strikes

Quote:

"The issue is, either we start it and conduct the first strike, no one ever rejected an idea of a disarming strike." His comments, coupled with the ominous tone of the conversation, underscored a direct threat to the United States.

Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
Aunburdened
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Cal88 said:

^This guy is a shock jock TV personality, not an official Russian spokesman.

When all you have is propaganda to support your position, it's all equivalent for the Ukraine proxy war cheerleaders.
Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

^This guy is a shock jock TV personality, not an official Russian spokesman.

A TV host who basically repeats all the claims you regularly make here.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

^This guy is a shock jock TV personality, not an official Russian spokesman.

A TV host who basically repeats all the claims you regularly make here.


He seems a bit out there, a bit of a sensationalist as a shock jock from what I've gathered. I doubt we agree on many points. Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs are more up my alley.

Serious observers like them understand that NATO's ultimate goal is to break up Russia and take over its considerable ressources, the richest in the world by a wide margin. Here's the top EU diplomat stating outright that their goal is to break up Russia:



Sachs in particular was in the thick of it in 1990s Russia, he was literally there with Yeltsin when he announced the dissolution of the USSR. He saw that the US, IMF and World Bank engineered the crash of the Russian economy in order to buy up its assets for pennies on the dollar.

Russia went through economic and social hell in the 90s as a result, with the oligarchs backed by the West grabbing all the state assets and enforcing their mob rule on the country. Things got so out of hand that they picked a tough-minded no-nonsense KGB officer to settle things down, someone they thought they could control, but Putin was a savvy operator who turned the tables on the oligarchs and cleaned house.

So the Russians believe that the West is coming after them once again, using Ukraine to weaken and destabilize their country and topple their government using a Yeltsin or Delsy Rodriguez type figure, but I think that ship has long sailed and the Russians have had the upper hand.
movielover
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.


We all want a diplomatic settlement to the war


You're totally mistaken here, Kiev and NATO have steadfastly refused any compromise and have not engaged in any serious diplomatic negotiation since the Istanbul agreement, scuttled by Boris Johnson and the ultranationalists in Kiev.


Quote:

As I have stated many many many many many many many many many many many times before, he is referring to when Russia annexed Crimea.

There was no fighting in that process, the local army garrisons defected and the referendum sealed the return of the mostly Russian peninsula to Russia. It was only ceded to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 1950s, back when USSR internal borders were largely irrelevant.

The actual fighting started later in 2014, in the Donbas when local garrisons defected and Kiev sent its tanks and bombers to crush the local rebellion.


What did mophead get out of it?
Cal88
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movielover said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Aunburdened said:

Time for a non-fictional update to the one forever war fervently supported by the folks who oppose the Iran war.

I don't support this war. I think Russia should stop waging it.


The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want a diplomatic settlement of this war.


We all want a diplomatic settlement to the war


You're totally mistaken here, Kiev and NATO have steadfastly refused any compromise and have not engaged in any serious diplomatic negotiation since the Istanbul agreement, scuttled by Boris Johnson and the ultranationalists in Kiev.


Quote:

As I have stated many many many many many many many many many many many times before, he is referring to when Russia annexed Crimea.

There was no fighting in that process, the local army garrisons defected and the referendum sealed the return of the mostly Russian peninsula to Russia. It was only ceded to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 1950s, back when USSR internal borders were largely irrelevant.

The actual fighting started later in 2014, in the Donbas when local garrisons defected and Kiev sent its tanks and bombers to crush the local rebellion.


What did mophead get out of it?


The Brits, along with the Poles, have always been the most russophobic people in Europe. Britain has battled Russia since before the Crimean Wars nearly 200 years ago. More recently in the 1990s a lot of Russia's wealth ended up in London, and the City of London yearns for these days.

The Brits also have delusions of grandeur and hubris relative to the Russians who they view as less civilized and thought they could defeat with their more advanced technology. Boris Johnson as part of the British aristocracy is particularly steeped in that kind of arrogance.
Haloski
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This thread started three weeks after then high school QB Fernando Mendoza committed to our beloved Golden Bears.

My oh my, 3 days flies by so fast!
Cal88
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How many more years of this??




My guess is 1 to 2 years, at this rate, to the last Ukrainian.
Aunburdened
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To the last Ukrainian

Aun "unburdened by what has been" Bear is the OG legend
- DaddyLegend 9/6/2026
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